IowaBear said:

---

I'll take the L there… but you're acting like we sucked that stretch. We didn't and I just proved that correct… if you want to ***** than by all means go ahead. But the 10-15 stretch was our best ever. ***** about the current state of BU football

---

OK cool. 'll be up front here, I pretty much just saw the 2 posts between Thee and you on the losses and just jumped in from there. I did not read what you guys had said before. So out of context it may appear I'm thinking we sucked from 10-15, but that is not my position at all.

I can also see both the good and the bad. I know the Briles era was fun and exciting, especially considering what we had endured for the 13-14 years prior to his arrival. We had a Heisman winner, two Big 12 Titles. We were beating teams that we rarely beat. There was an optimism and energy that I had never seen before.

I will be so bold as to say that I felt like our wings were clipped (2016) when we could have quite possibly become better in the future. It was kind of a shocking way for it all to end.

As far as current status - we look bad. I'm not sure how far we have sunk. A lot of people say it's NIL related. Maybe it is, maybe not; I don't claim to know.

I do know that our current staff needs to be shown the door. Multiple failed OC hires, firing the DC Roberts. Lackluster development. I don't think this ship can be turned around.

Last paragraph is spot on. Staff has to be canned. And that sucks because I have no doubt those are sone good dudes

If the staff gets let go next year, anyone good will land on their feet.

Give Thee his credit. We were good enough in 1980 to win the conference, but lost to San Jose State and got our ass kicked in the Cotton Bowl.

At least 2 of Briles teams were probably better. And I'm adding the qualifier "probably" to be nice to old Thee.

Now: we just suck.

Reverend said:

---

Give Thee his credit. We were good enough in 1980 to win the conference, but lost to San Jose State and got our ass kicked in the Cotton Bowl.

At least 2 of Briles teams were probably better. And I'm adding the qualifier "probably" to be nice to old Thee.

Now: we just suck.

---

thee will give himself enough credit. We dont have to.

RiskyBizz Bear said:

---

Well, they DID just have a HC, OC, and DC with plenty of prior smoke….

Briles situation, for whatever reason, was such a bonfire that he is untouchable.

---

Yep
Those Aggie hires were some scum
But they didn't care

jikespingleton said:

---

baylor1984 said:

---

1980 Team is still the only Baylor football team to go undefeated in conference play.

---

Cannot take that away from them.

Also cannot compare different eras - the SWC and Big 12 are completely different.

The SWC teams only played 8 conference games. Big 12 started playing 9 in 2011.

There was also no OU or Nebraska to deal with in the SWC days.

---

Not so fast there! Read below.

SWC vs, Big 12? Back in the 70's & 80's the SWC was King.

Example for you. I've listed the rankings of our opponents during my 4 years. The * signifies a SWC opponent.

My 4 years we played the following ranked teams:

1977
#8*
#14
#19*
#13*
#8*
#1*

1978
#13
#12*
#16*
#9*

1979
#2
#6*
#9*
#6*
#18

1980
#20*
#20*
#9


************************************************************************************************


4 of the best years recently:

2012
#9*
#14*
#2*
#24*

2013
#12*
#11*
#23*

2014
#9*
#16*
#9*

2015
#12*
#4*
#15*

The Teaff teams played more ranked conference and non-conference teams than Briles teams.

Reverend said:

---

Give Thee his credit. We were good enough in 1980 to win the conference, but lost to San Jose State and got our ass kicked in the Cotton Bowl.

At least 2 of Briles teams were probably better. And I'm adding the qualifier "probably" to be nice to old Thee.

Now: we just suck.

---

I will admit that:

1. We got our ass kicked in the Cotton Bowl. Especially in the 2nd half.
2. San Jose State robbed us and we let them. Horrible game plan.
3. Art's offenses were much more exciting to watch. That does not make them better. Probably.

When you add up the players off those years that went on to the NFL it is no contest. The 70's/80's NFL Bears exceeded that of the NFL Bears of 2010s

Both in numbers and in NFL tenure and NFL accolades.

1980 SWC Champs had 16 players that were drafted in the first 7 rounds. The 2013 team had 14.

The 80's NFL had multiple All-Pro for multiple years and a HOFer.

At one time there was like 6 running backs on NFL rosters from the late 70's/early 80's BU teams. Some amazing athletes during that period.

baylor1984 said:

---

At one time there was like 6 running backs on NFL rosters from the late 70's/early 80's BU teams. Some amazing athletes during that period.

---

'79 - Greg Hawthorne Steelers 1st Round
'79 - Steve Howell Dolphins 4th Round
'80 - Frank Pollard Steelers 11th Round
'82 - Walter Aercrombie Steelers 1st Round
'82 - Dennis Gentry Bears 4th Round
'84 - Alfred Anderson Vikings 3rd Round
'84 - Allen Rice Vikings 5th Round

Thee University said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Thee University said:

---

... while those of us who actually played the game wanted Art to drop that left nad and win ALL of our games. We were never going to get there without a major recommitment to DEFENSE.

---

We just let K State hang 59 on us.

---

Art let West Virginia hang 70 on us in 2012. 70. How does that happen? 10 TDs in one game?

Oklahoma St. clipped us with 59 in 2011. 55 in 2010. 49 in 2013. OSU loved playing Art & Phil!

UT drilled us with 56 in 2012.

A&M pummeled us with 55 in 2011. 42 in 2010.

TCU hammered home 49 on us in 2012.

Texas Tech got in 45 on us in 2010.

OU 44 in 2015. 42 in 2012.

West Virginia loved playing us too. 41 in 2014.

And those are just the losses. To win a few games by just a few points we had to score 66, 61, 50, 48 & 47.

---

Why not just throw some 2008 and 2009 games in there as well. Sheesh

I know you think Art is as evil as Trump but cmon man.

Nobody thinks he's coming back to baylor. It should never be forgotten what baylor did to him (his name. Art is very comfortable materially I'd assume)

jikespingleton said:

---

Reverend said:

---

It's nuts like you who have created and perpetuated the false narrative about Briles which absolutely destroyed the career of a good man. Yes. A good man.

Although you have convinced yourself you speak for the righteous majority, you are actually in a shameful small minority. But a sadly powerful one. The overall Baylor community, which probably has more information and knowledge about the man and the circumstances than anyone else (certainly even more than the powers that ruined him) supports him by a vast majority.

So go blow your bull**** at someone who might believe it.

---

Look, we all know Briles didn't hide rape - however, focusing solely on that means you cannot see the forest from the trees.

Briles would not have been scapegoated unless there was enough to pin on him - and there certainly was plenty to pin on him.. You cannot scapegoat a guy who runs a clean ship. You can scapegoat a guy who does not. Bries was incapable of providing leadership in areas that it mattered - discipline and accountability. Instead both him and Ian just tried to hide stuff and make it go away. Shoot, even a BOI member said that when they asked Briles what he would do to instill accountability and clean up things, he had no answer. That alone is all you need to know.

With everything going over a period of years, it wasn't that much of a stretch to lie and say he hid or didn't report sexual assault. He made himself an easy target and I feel that is why the BOI decided to throw him under the bus.

Even if we cannot agree that Briles was a poor leader in areas of discipline and accountability, there is a concrete truth that some people on this board still have not come to terms with: Briles isn't coming back and no one outside of some Baylor fans thinks he is innocent.

---

This sounds like someone that works in DIEc

Geez one could say that about every possible coach out there.

I'm still shocked 52 people got away basically Scott free with what I believe is one of the worst crimes a human can commit against another human

It really is quite stunning.

It's been 15,721 days since sanJose state and it still hurts and I wasn't even born yet

#15721club

Fre3dombear said:

---

Thee University said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Thee University said:

---

... while those of us who actually played the game wanted Art to drop that left nad and win ALL of our games. We were never going to get there without a major recommitment to DEFENSE.

---

We just let K State hang 59 on us.

---

Art let West Virginia hang 70 on us in 2012. 70. How does that happen? 10 TDs in one game?

Oklahoma St. clipped us with 59 in 2011. 55 in 2010. 49 in 2013. OSU loved playing Art & Phil!

UT drilled us with 56 in 2012.

A&M pummeled us with 55 in 2011. 42 in 2010.

TCU hammered home 49 on us in 2012.

Texas Tech got in 45 on us in 2010.

OU 44 in 2015. 42 in 2012.

West Virginia loved playing us too. 41 in 2014.

And those are just the losses. To win a few games by just a few points we had to score 66, 61, 50, 48 & 47.

---

Why not just throw some 2008 and 2009 games in there as well. Sheesh

I know you think Art is as evil as Trump but cmon man.

Nobody thinks he's coming back to baylor. It should never be forgotten what baylor did to him (his name. Art is very comfortable materially I'd assume)

---

That would not be a fair representation. Those 4-8 seasons are ramp ups. I went through a couple of those too.

I NEVER thought Art was evil. I just thought he was aloof and undisciplined to run a Baylor program. It's different. It's not U of H. It's not like any other program other than Abilene Christian or maybe BYU. It was really Ian's fault. 100%. And to some extent that fellow who liked to jog in with the freshmen.

If I would have been Athletic Director I would have saved Art and Baylor.

Trump is not really evil either. He's just egomaniacal. And a blow hard buffoon. Draft dodger. Daddy's Boy. Nasally whiner.

Fre3dombear said:

---

#15721club

---

Charter Member!

Fre3dombear said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Reverend said:

---

It's nuts like you who have created and perpetuated the false narrative about Briles which absolutely destroyed the career of a good man. Yes. A good man.

Although you have convinced yourself you speak for the righteous majority, you are actually in a shameful small minority. But a sadly powerful one. The overall Baylor community, which probably has more information and knowledge about the man and the circumstances than anyone else (certainly even more than the powers that ruined him) supports him by a vast majority.

So go blow your bull**** at someone who might believe it.

---

Look, we all know Briles didn't hide rape - however, focusing solely on that means you cannot see the forest from the trees.

Briles would not have been scapegoated unless there was enough to pin on him - and there certainly was plenty to pin on him.. You cannot scapegoat a guy who runs a clean ship. You can scapegoat a guy who does not. Bries was incapable of providing leadership in areas that it mattered - discipline and accountability. Instead both him and Ian just tried to hide stuff and make it go away. Shoot, even a BOI member said that when they asked Briles what he would do to instill accountability and clean up things, he had no answer. That alone is all you need to know.

With everything going over a period of years, it wasn't that much of a stretch to lie and say he hid or didn't report sexual assault. He made himself an easy target and I feel that is why the BOI decided to throw him under the bus.

Even if we cannot agree that Briles was a poor leader in areas of discipline and accountability, there is a concrete truth that some people on this board still have not come to terms with: Briles isn't coming back and no one outside of some Baylor fans thinks he is innocent.

---

Geez one could say that about every possible coach out there.

---

Cool story bro

jikespingleton said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Reverend said:

---

It's nuts like you who have created and perpetuated the false narrative about Briles which absolutely destroyed the career of a good man. Yes. A good man.

Although you have convinced yourself you speak for the righteous majority, you are actually in a shameful small minority. But a sadly powerful one. The overall Baylor community, which probably has more information and knowledge about the man and the circumstances than anyone else (certainly even more than the powers that ruined him) supports him by a vast majority.

So go blow your bull**** at someone who might believe it.

---

Look, we all know Briles didn't hide rape - however, focusing solely on that means you cannot see the forest from the trees.

Briles would not have been scapegoated unless there was enough to pin on him - and there certainly was plenty to pin on him.. You cannot scapegoat a guy who runs a clean ship. You can scapegoat a guy who does not. Bries was incapable of providing leadership in areas that it mattered - discipline and accountability. Instead both him and Ian just tried to hide stuff and make it go away. Shoot, even a BOI member said that when they asked Briles what he would do to instill accountability and clean up things, he had no answer. That alone is all you need to know.

With everything going over a period of years, it wasn't that much of a stretch to lie and say he hid or didn't report sexual assault. He made himself an easy target and I feel that is why the BOI decided to throw him under the bus.

Even if we cannot agree that Briles was a poor leader in areas of discipline and accountability, there is a concrete truth that some people on this board still have not come to terms with: Briles isn't coming back and no one outside of some Baylor fans thinks he is innocent.

---

Geez one could say that about every possible coach out there.

---

Cool story bro

---

Can you cite examples that people would overwhelmingly agree were specific only to Art Briles? I'll hang up and listen.

And again, our justice system apparently went 0 for 52 on punishing these evil guys for what they did to those women - one of the most heinous crimes that could ever be committed. 0 for 52.

It's sickening. I'd say I've lost all faith in the justice system but we look around and it only took about 76 Soros DAs to make it happen.

Stays safe out there!

Thee University said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

baylor1984 said:

---

1980 Team is still the only Baylor football team to go undefeated in conference play.

---

Cannot take that away from them.

I'm not a fan of comparing different eras - the SWC and Big 12 are completely different. The rules are different (at least more recently) and the schedules are different.

The SWC teams only played 8 conference games. Big 12 started playing 9 in 2011.

That extra game could be the difference between an undefeated conference season and having a loss.

---

Not so fast there! Read below.

SWC vs, Big 12? Back in the 70's & 80's the SWC was King.

Example for you. I've listed the rankings of our opponents during my 4 years. The * signifies a SWC opponent.

My 4 years we played the following ranked teams:

1977
#8*
#14
#19*
#13*
#8*
#1*

1978
#13
#12*
#16*
#9*

1979
#2
#6*
#9*
#6*
#18

1980
#20*
#20*
#9


************************************************************************************************


4 of the best years recently:

2012
#9*
#14*
#2*
#24*

2013
#12*
#11*
#23*

2014
#9*
#16*
#9*

2015
#12*
#4*
#15*

The Teaff teams played more ranked conference and non-conference teams than Briles teams.

---

To be honest my only thought on it was that 9 conference games vs 8 means there's that 1 more chance of losing and not going undefeated in conference.

I pretty much stay away from comparing different era's and it was not my intent to do that in my prior post.

bear2be2 said:

---

parch said:

---

Nobody who matters wants Briles except us. The myopia here is unbelievable.

---

It's a cult. And one I wish we could exorcise/move past.

---

Well wvery church building you see is a cult, covered in the blood of Innocents who believed a different way. War and death is what built every church you see un the world regardless of the faith.

jikespingleton said:

---

To be honest my only thought on it was that 9 conference games vs 8 means there's that 1 more chance of losing and not going undefeated in conference.

I pretty much stay away from comparing different era's and it was not my intent to do that in my prior post.

---

Understood. Both were great seasons.

10-1 or 11-1

Both of the losses should not have happened. Particularly the SJSU loss in Waco 22-30 to an unranked team. 3 undefeated teams joined us in getting upset that weekend. It was 15-0 Bears until right before halftime. We had 6 turnovers and due to our kicker being out we had drives stall with 0 points at the 6, 22 and 24 yard lines.

The 2013 loss to #22 ranked OSU was tough as we gave up 594 yards. 17-49 score was not close.

joseywales said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

parch said:

---

Nobody who matters wants Briles except us. The myopia here is unbelievable.

---

It's a cult. And one I wish we could exorcise/move past.

---

Well wvery church building you see is a cult, covered in the blood of Innocents who believed a different way. War and death is what built every church you see un the world regardless of the faith.

---

You and I probably agree more on that than we disagree. But it's not just religion. All tribal divisions/ideologies result in violence when their adherents are radicalized enough.

Fre3dombear said:

---

It's been 15,721 days since sanJose state and it still hurts and I wasn't even born yet

#15721club

---

Liberty and San Marcos High have taken their place ahead of SJ State I'm afraid...and there are more of those coming.

joseywales said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

parch said:

---

Nobody who matters wants Briles except us. The myopia here is unbelievable.

---

It's a cult. And one I wish we could exorcise/move past.

---

Well wvery church building you see is a cult, covered in the blood of Innocents who believed a different way. War and death is what built every church you see un the world regardless of the faith.

---

Yeah that's incorrect

jikespingleton said:

---

Thee University said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

baylor1984 said:

---

1980 Team is still the only Baylor football team to go undefeated in conference play.

---

Cannot take that away from them.

I'm not a fan of comparing different eras - the SWC and Big 12 are completely different. The rules are different (at least more recently) and the schedules are different.

The SWC teams only played 8 conference games. Big 12 started playing 9 in 2011.

That extra game could be the difference between an undefeated conference season and having a loss.

---

Not so fast there! Read below.

SWC vs, Big 12? Back in the 70's & 80's the SWC was King.

Example for you. I've listed the rankings of our opponents during my 4 years. The * signifies a SWC opponent.

My 4 years we played the following ranked teams:

1977
#8*
#14
#19*
#13*
#8*
#1*

1978
#13
#12*
#16*
#9*

1979
#2
#6*
#9*
#6*
#18

1980
#20*
#20*
#9


************************************************************************************************


4 of the best years recently:

2012
#9*
#14*
#2*
#24*

2013
#12*
#11*
#23*

2014
#9*
#16*
#9*

2015
#12*
#4*
#15*

The Teaff teams played more ranked conference and non-conference teams than Briles teams.

---

To be honest my only thought on it was that 9 conference games vs 8 means there's that 1 more chance of losing and not going undefeated in conference.

I pretty much stay away from comparing different era's and it was not my intent to do that in my prior post.

---

With 8 teams in the SWC, how do you come up with 8 conference games ? You don't play yourself

BEAR 45 said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Thee University said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

baylor1984 said:

---

1980 Team is still the only Baylor football team to go undefeated in conference play.

---

Cannot take that away from them.

I'm not a fan of comparing different eras - the SWC and Big 12 are completely different. The rules are different (at least more recently) and the schedules are different.

The SWC teams only played 8 conference games. Big 12 started playing 9 in 2011.

That extra game could be the difference between an undefeated conference season and having a loss.

---

Not so fast there! Read below.

SWC vs, Big 12? Back in the 70's & 80's the SWC was King.

Example for you. I've listed the rankings of our opponents during my 4 years. The * signifies a SWC opponent.

My 4 years we played the following ranked teams:

1977
#8*
#14
#19*
#13*
#8*
#1*

1978
#13
#12*
#16*
#9*

1979
#2
#6*
#9*
#6*
#18

1980
#20*
#20*
#9


************************************************************************************************


4 of the best years recently:

2012
#9*
#14*
#2*
#24*

2013
#12*
#11*
#23*

2014
#9*
#16*
#9*

2015
#12*
#4*
#15*

The Teaff teams played more ranked conference and non-conference teams than Briles teams.

---

To be honest my only thought on it was that 9 conference games vs 8 means there's that 1 more chance of losing and not going undefeated in conference.

I pretty much stay away from comparing different era's and it was not my intent to do that in my prior post.

---

With 8 teams in the SWC, how do you come up with 8 conference games ? You don't play yourself

---

Arkansas

Russell Gym said:

---

BEAR 45 said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

Thee University said:

---

jikespingleton said:

---

baylor1984 said:

---

1980 Team is still the only Baylor football team to go undefeated in conference play.

---

Cannot take that away from them.

I'm not a fan of comparing different eras - the SWC and Big 12 are completely different. The rules are different (at least more recently) and the schedules are different.

The SWC teams only played 8 conference games. Big 12 started playing 9 in 2011.

That extra game could be the difference between an undefeated conference season and having a loss.

---

Not so fast there! Read below.

SWC vs, Big 12? Back in the 70's & 80's the SWC was King.

Example for you. I've listed the rankings of our opponents during my 4 years. The * signifies a SWC opponent.

My 4 years we played the following ranked teams:

1977
#8*
#14
#19*
#13*
#8*
#1*

1978
#13
#12*
#16*
#9*

1979
#2
#6*
#9*
#6*
#18

1980
#20*
#20*
#9


************************************************************************************************


4 of the best years recently:

2012
#9*
#14*
#2*
#24*

2013
#12*
#11*
#23*

2014
#9*
#16*
#9*

2015
#12*
#4*
#15*

The Teaff teams played more ranked conference and non-conference teams than Briles teams.

---

To be honest my only thought on it was that 9 conference games vs 8 means there's that 1 more chance of losing and not going undefeated in conference.

I pretty much stay away from comparing different era's and it was not my intent to do that in my prior post.

---

With 8 teams in the SWC, how do you come up with 8 conference games ? You don't play yourself

---

Arkansas

---

Baylor
TCU
SMU
Rice
TT
Texas
Texas A&M
Arkansas

Who else ? Count them

Apologies. I forgot UH was added before the 1977 season not after

BEAR 45 said:

---

Apologies. I forgot UH was added before the 1977 season not after

---

U of H won the SWC in 1976, their first year in the conference.