bear2be2 said:

---

Desperado718 said:

---

Geez people Steele years were tons worse, tons

To say now and Steele years compare means you are to young to have experienced Steele, or mmm, trying to come up with something

Dumb as a rock

---

For reference, we averaged ...

• 230.1 yards and 12.5 points per game in 1999
• 221.8 yards and 12.6 points per game in 2000
• 310.5 yards and 18.6 points per game in 2001
• 334.9 yards and 16.8 points per game in 2002

As bad as this year's team was, we were almost a touchdown better per game than Steele's best offense and only allowed more points per game than Steele's 2001 defense.

---

Sure, but when you control for FCS wins only Steels's first season was worse in the stat that matters the most.

The team isn't Steele bad, but the record is. Guy Morris was a lot better than Steele but only made it to 5 wins because of the hole Steele dug. What I fear is that Aranda is working on another hole.

You have to question the decision to, in effect, trade a good and dependable dual-threat QB/Leader for a "maybe".

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

---

Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

---

Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

---

He's comparable to all of them at the same stage of their careers -- RG3 excluded. Robertson will likely be a junior starter next season. None of those other guys -- except Griffin -- started as sophomores either. Florence was forced into action as a freshman and was overmatched and Petty was far enough behind as a sophomore that we had to burn Florence's redshirt for one half of football.

---

This. With the exception of a few consistent examples (i.e. Lincoln Riley's QBs), QBs generally need time to develop at the college level regardless of their rating out of high school, so, simply because a QB is not great in their first year in a system does not mean that they either (1) won't ever be a good QB or (2) that the staff is not developing them appropriately. In the case of Baylor, we can say what we want about Aranda and his staff, but Shapen was exponentially better in 2022 vs. 2021, and, if he continues on that trajectory, he could be a higher end P5 QB in either 2023 or 2024.

---

Will Howard was terrible as a freshman and sophomore. Now, he's better than any quarterback we've lost to the transfer portal.

He led Kansas State to one conference title and had them in the running for another until the last few games of this season.

Quarterbacks transfer in modern college football. It happens to good programs and not so good programs. The key is to be prepared to address that position every offseason and to keep a good enough backup that you won't be caught off guard when it happens. Sawyer Robertson certainly fits that bill. And anyone who has already written him off because he hasn't peaked as a sophomore is silly.

Krieg said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Desperado718 said:

---

Geez people Steele years were tons worse, tons

To say now and Steele years compare means you are to young to have experienced Steele, or mmm, trying to come up with something

Dumb as a rock

---

For reference, we averaged ...

• 230.1 yards and 12.5 points per game in 1999
• 221.8 yards and 12.6 points per game in 2000
• 310.5 yards and 18.6 points per game in 2001
• 334.9 yards and 16.8 points per game in 2002

As bad as this year's team was, we were almost a touchdown better per game than Steele's best offense and only allowed more points per game than Steele's 2001 defense.

---

Sure, but when you control for FCS wins only Steels's first season was worse in the stat that matters the most.

The team isn't Steele bad, but the record is. Guy Morris was a lot better than Steele but only made it to 5 wins because of the hole Steele dug. What I fear is that Aranda is working on another hole.

---

I think that's fair. I just think we need to be careful when making these comparisons. We've still got a ways to go to reach the depths Steele achieved. And the truth is Aranda won't be allowed to reach those. He's on his last life at Baylor. If things go as expected next year, he'll be fired and replaced with a better candidate than Guy Morriss.

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

---

Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

---

Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

---

He's comparable to all of them at the same stage of their careers -- RG3 excluded. Robertson will likely be a junior starter next season. None of those other guys -- except Griffin -- started as sophomores either. Florence was forced into action as a freshman and was overmatched and Petty was far enough behind as a sophomore that we had to burn Florence's redshirt for one half of football.

---

Maybe so. He's down near the bottom of Big 12 QBR with all the other 2nd and 3rd string QB's. Who knows if he's even at Baylor next season.

So looks like the NIL bidding for a top tier QB starts at $1 million.

🚨 | BREAKING: Washington State QB Cameron Ward has already received over TEN $1 million offers to transfer schools...

The WSU star finished #4 in total passing yards in all of college football, & will be one of the top returning QBs in the sport.

It has been CONFIRMED that the… pic.twitter.com/HD1ggmFPwq

— Blue Bloods Bias (@bluebloodsbias) November 28, 2023

1 million?? Wow! Does everyone see now how big a deal NIL is. Whether you like the modern world or not?

boognish_bear said:

---

So looks like the NIL bidding for a top tier QB starts at $1 million.

🚨 | BREAKING: Washington State QB Cameron Ward has already received over TEN $1 million offers to transfer schools...

The WSU star finished #4 in total passing yards in all of college football, & will be one of the top returning QBs in the sport.

It has been CONFIRMED that the… pic.twitter.com/HD1ggmFPwq

— Blue Bloods Bias (@bluebloodsbias) November 28, 2023

---

We should pick him up

PartyBear said:

---

1 million?? Wow! Does everyone see now how big a deal NIL is. Whether you like the modern world or not?

---

The challenge is that this is not a game Baylor can win or even be in the top tier in, and that's not an issue that the AD, president, or BOR can solve.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

1 million?? Wow! Does everyone see now how big a deal NIL is. Whether you like the modern world or not?

---

The challenge is that this is not a game Baylor can win or even be in the top tier in, and that's not an issue that the AD, president, or BOR can solve.

---

Bingo. NIL isn't a will issue for Baylor. It's a capacity issue.

We can do better, but there's a hard ceiling. So we had better find other ways to compensate and compete.

boognish_bear said:

---

So looks like the NIL bidding for a top tier QB starts at $1 million.

🚨 | BREAKING: Washington State QB Cameron Ward has already received over TEN $1 million offers to transfer schools...

The WSU star finished #4 in total passing yards in all of college football, & will be one of the top returning QBs in the sport.

It has been CONFIRMED that the… pic.twitter.com/HD1ggmFPwq

— Blue Bloods Bias (@bluebloodsbias) November 28, 2023

---

He's an old family friend of my in-laws. Good kid. Has a very interesting story coming out of high school. His high school coach barely ever let him pass, so he didn't receive any offers. Their offensive coordinator Ben Arbuckle is someone I would take a look at for OC, but he doesn't have previous head coaching experience, so he's not going to be able to come in and coach up our head coach like Mack wants

Well the prevailing sentiment here has been that it is not a big deal, it does not impact athletic programs and can be fixed down the road sometime. We can hire whomever target without good NIL it is so insignificant.

Sounds about right. I have a neighbor that was a walk on at Carolina and he is in the know with their program and he told me that Rattler got paid $2mill for this season. Just goes to show what a top tier qb can get.

PartyBear said:

---

Well the prevailing sentiment here has been that it is not a big deal, it does not impact athletic programs and can be fixed down the road sometime. We can hire whomever target without good NIL it is so insignificant.

---

The prevailing sentiment was that NIL wasn't in the top three reasons (at least) for why Aranda was failing at Baylor, so it shouldn't be used as a crutch or an excuse for his failure.

If you want to go shopping for a new HC. You better have pretty good NIL has been my point. No one has ever argued that if you gave Shapen 500K he would turn into RGIII that is just obfuscating the issue.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

1 million?? Wow! Does everyone see now how big a deal NIL is. Whether you like the modern world or not?

---

The challenge is that this is not a game Baylor can win or even be in the top tier in, and that's not an issue that the AD, president, or BOR can solve.

---

And....that's kind of always been Baylor's status anyway. Even before NIL we were getting "outbid" by bigger programs.

We need to get better at the NIL game....but it's more about retaining our position rather than trying to compete in the big leagues.

bear2be2 said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

---

Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

---

Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

---

He's comparable to all of them at the same stage of their careers -- RG3 excluded. Robertson will likely be a junior starter next season. None of those other guys -- except Griffin -- started as sophomores either. Florence was forced into action as a freshman and was overmatched and Petty was far enough behind as a sophomore that we had to burn Florence's redshirt for one half of football.

---

This. With the exception of a few consistent examples (i.e. Lincoln Riley's QBs), QBs generally need time to develop at the college level regardless of their rating out of high school, so, simply because a QB is not great in their first year in a system does not mean that they either (1) won't ever be a good QB or (2) that the staff is not developing them appropriately. In the case of Baylor, we can say what we want about Aranda and his staff, but Shapen was exponentially better in 2022 vs. 2021, and, if he continues on that trajectory, he could be a higher end P5 QB in either 2023 or 2024.

---

Will Howard was terrible as a freshman and sophomore. Now, he's better than any quarterback we've lost to the transfer portal.

He led Kansas State to one conference title and had them in the running for another until the last few games of this season.

Quarterbacks transfer in modern college football. It happens to good programs and not so good programs. The key is to be prepared to address that position every offseason and to keep a good enough backup that you won't be caught off guard when it happens. Sawyer Robertson certainly fits that bill. And anyone who has already written him off because he hasn't peaked as a sophomore is silly.

---

I'd prefer we avoid him if we can. My preference (at QB) would be guys who have more than one year remaining.

Sawyer fits that bill. He can build as he matures. He gets to know his teammates and finds confidence, who knows?

It doesn't matter what I think.

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TeamPlayer said:

---

Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

---

Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

---

Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

---

He's comparable to all of them at the same stage of their careers -- RG3 excluded. Robertson will likely be a junior starter next season. None of those other guys -- except Griffin -- started as sophomores either. Florence was forced into action as a freshman and was overmatched and Petty was far enough behind as a sophomore that we had to burn Florence's redshirt for one half of football.

---

This. With the exception of a few consistent examples (i.e. Lincoln Riley's QBs), QBs generally need time to develop at the college level regardless of their rating out of high school, so, simply because a QB is not great in their first year in a system does not mean that they either (1) won't ever be a good QB or (2) that the staff is not developing them appropriately. In the case of Baylor, we can say what we want about Aranda and his staff, but Shapen was exponentially better in 2022 vs. 2021, and, if he continues on that trajectory, he could be a higher end P5 QB in either 2023 or 2024.

---

Will Howard was terrible as a freshman and sophomore. Now, he's better than any quarterback we've lost to the transfer portal.

He led Kansas State to one conference title and had them in the running for another until the last few games of this season.

Quarterbacks transfer in modern college football. It happens to good programs and not so good programs. The key is to be prepared to address that position every offseason and to keep a good enough backup that you won't be caught off guard when it happens. Sawyer Robertson certainly fits that bill. And anyone who has already written him off because he hasn't peaked as a sophomore is silly.

---

I'd prefer we avoid him if we can. My preference (at QB) would be guys who have more than one year remaining.

It doesn't matter what I think.

---

We're not getting Howard. I was just using him as an example for why it's foolish to write off sophomore quarterbacks. Guys can and do get better with experience.

Wish him well and can't blame him

PartyBear said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

soren said:

---

We're back to the Steele years

---

We're not, thankfully. Even if we're terrible next year, we're in a much better spot institutionally than we were back then.

If next year goes as expected, we'll fire Aranda, replace him with a sought-after G5 coach and we'll be OK in time.

The decision to retain Aranda sets us back a year or two, certainly. But it's not as grim a picture as you're painting.

---

Bear2be2 saying things for which he accuses others of being an "apologist" when they say it . He is absolutely correct here on what he is saying on substance in this quote. I just find it interesting.

---

Proof is in the pudding, the record is getting worse every year. Portal has been bad and the mgt of it worse. Fans saying everyone leaving sucks and not worth losing sleep over is homerism to the 9th degree. They don't know football as much as they think they do.

We are going to have to find a way to make it within means. $1M is a lot but it's not any more than any other QB on a ranked team can expect.
Just know there is always a limit. Remember Rashada getting out of his NLI at Florida because the NIL collective couldn't honor the $13M package they promised him? Now he's at Arizona State.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

1 million?? Wow! Does everyone see now how big a deal NIL is. Whether you like the modern world or not?

---

The challenge is that this is not a game Baylor can win or even be in the top tier in, and that's not an issue that the AD, president, or BOR can solve.

---

Bingo as I said in a thread before it's much easier for BU to be competitive in basketball with NIL it's easier to manage and with Drew's track record of putting guys in the league basketball will not suffer one bit.

Does not matter who coaches us in football we can't compete with NIL even if we find the 3* and develop them into good players they will just be bought and leave there is no win win scenario for BU in the long run the top 30-40 programs will be in there own league eventually

Hopefully we get a fair shot to match his NIL offer.

Auburn, Kentucky, Louisville, Missouri, and Washington are possible destinations to watch for Kansas State QB transfer Will Howard, @PeteNakos_ reports.

Story: https://t.co/buiB7Qx55i pic.twitter.com/54RFWcqADn

— On3 (@On3sports) November 28, 2023

This is no longer an amateur game.

Golden Helmet said:

---

This is no longer an amateur game.

---

Afraid you're right. It's professional sports without a salary cap.

Ward is a Junior, so he has a year of eligibility left? Two if he was redshirted?

The NFL minimum for rookies is $750,000 a year. If they're paying him to transfer for one year, he's above that already.

I'm pretty sure Howard is a senior and has played all 4 years. I wonder if he's looking at a grad/covid extension?

Interesting that Aranda and his staff went all in on Blake as starter even though he already had a proven winner and a 4 star guy waiting his turn. Now he's up and running off. How embarrassing he Should have made this move 3 years ago

These hoes ain't loyal

Golden Helmet said:

---

This is no longer an amateur game.

---

Agree. It is a game we do not have the money to play at the highest level as a private school. The sooner the top 40+ Giant Tax Payer Subsidized State Schools split off the bettter. We may have the bankroll to compete at the 2nd level. Maybe. But we need a new AD, new HC and a General Manager to run NIL contracts. We'll need all three to be suceesful in the 2nd level where maybe 10 million a year can buy a good roster.

New Game.
New Rules.
Adapt and move on.

We need to spend the entire NIL budget on a triple threat QB. It's one of the only chances you have in college with a trash HC

ron.reagan said:

---

We need to spend the entire NIL budget on a triple threat QB. It's one of the only chances you have in college with a trash HC

---

What's a triple threat QB? He has a good jump shot too?

Jorkel said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

We need to spend the entire NIL budget on a triple threat QB. It's one of the only chances you have in college with a trash HC

---

What's a triple threat QB? He has a good jump shot too?

---

Kicks FG

robby44 said:

---

Interesting that Aranda and his staff went all in on Blake as starter even though he already had a proven winner and a 4 star guy waiting his turn. Now he's up and running off. How embarrassing he Should have made this move 3 years ago

These hoes ain't loyal

---

And we heard the exact same platitudes the last time. "I never liked that quarterback anyway, the back up is looking amazing in practice, now we are REALLY going to see the offense open up!!!"

PartyBear said:

---

What I have been saying is that Aranda is not the sole problem. I believe nearly everyone sees this now.

---

Don't give yourself too much credit. We've all seen it. But Aranda is the biggest problem, he absolutely can't head-coach, by his own admission.

You keep trying to blame everyone but CDA, but he is likely the worst coach in the B12, heck he's likely in the bottom 5% of head-coaching ability across all P5 schools. He hasn't done one thing well for the program in the last two years. Well I guess we can say that at least we don't have a scandal, so there is that.