soren said:

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Link or it didn't happen

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https://sicem365.com/forums/2/topics/131714/replies/3472546#3472546

"Shapen would win a Heisman under Briles."

-Soren


Were you making a joke, or did you really not remember saying that in that thread and then calling anyone who disagreed with that opinion a troll? OK now I can't help it, I've got a quote to add to my chuckle book.

When the dog bites, when the bee stings, when I'm feeling sad, I simply remember that said Soren said Shapen could win a Heisman and then I don't feel so bad!

Um, what? Link doesn't work and misquotes.

soren said:

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Yes, we are worse without him. Are you that dense?

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Seriously you are not low football IQ. You are just low IQ. Something is wrong with you.

You can't make a legitimate argument but you are really good with childish insults.

Nice strawman, thanks for not addressing anything relevant

JP1037 said:

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soren said:

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Yes, we are worse without him. Are you that dense?

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Seriously you are not low football IQ. You are just low IQ. Something is wrong with you.

You can't make a legitimate argument but you are really good with childish insults.

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Take a gander at the thread that I just posted. He's trying to deny it now, but he literally said that anyone who thinks that Shapen would not win a Heisman under Briles is a troll.

soren said:

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Um, what? Link doesn't work and misquotes.

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https://sicem365.com/forums/2/topics/131714

It is in the thread entitled "Shapen" that was posted by user "Robal" on 11/11/23. This is in writing now. I'm going to be nice and give you a chance to retract what you said, but it's there for anyone to see

Since you are a pathological liar, here is what I posted (without context), " Shapen would be a Heisman candidate under Briles"

No Quarterback said:

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JP1037 said:

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soren said:

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Yes, we are worse without him. Are you that dense?

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Seriously you are not low football IQ. You are just low IQ. Something is wrong with you.

You can't make a legitimate argument but you are really good with childish insults.

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Take a gander at the thread that I just posted. He's trying to deny it now, but he literally said that anyone who thinks that Shapen would not win a Heisman under Briles is a troll.

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Saw it Well done . Dude is a total moron. Possibly mentally ill.

soren said:

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Since you are a pathological liar, here is what I posted (without context), " Shapen would be a Heisman candidate under Briles"

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How is that better? It's hilarious that you posted "link or it didn't happen" and you were the one who said it!! And yes, you called several people in that thread a troll for disagreeing with your take.

It's completely different and out of context and by the way your signature is made up and false what the **** is wrong with you?

JP1037 said:

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No Quarterback said:

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JP1037 said:

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soren said:

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Yes, we are worse without him. Are you that dense?

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Seriously you are not low football IQ. You are just low IQ. Something is wrong with you.

You can't make a legitimate argument but you are really good with childish insults.

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Take a gander at the thread that I just posted. He's trying to deny it now, but he literally said that anyone who thinks that Shapen would not win a Heisman under Briles is a troll.

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Saw it Well done . Dude is a total moron. Possibly mentally ill.

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I'll admit I did mess up the quote a bit, and I apologize for that, but it's stuck with me for weeks. I wasn't sure if it was an attempt to pump up Brile's offense i.e. "his offense was so amazing that even an average quarterback would be a Heisman candidate in it!", or if he just really loves Shapen that much. But the fact that he started ringing the alarm for a troll alert on like four different people in that thread because they disagreed with him. And he didn't remember any of it? That's comedy gold

No Quarterback said:

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JP1037 said:

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No Quarterback said:

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JP1037 said:

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soren said:

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Yes, we are worse without him. Are you that dense?

---

Seriously you are not low football IQ. You are just low IQ. Something is wrong with you.

You can't make a legitimate argument but you are really good with childish insults.

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Take a gander at the thread that I just posted. He's trying to deny it now, but he literally said that anyone who thinks that Shapen would not win a Heisman under Briles is a troll.

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Saw it Well done . Dude is a total moron. Possibly mentally ill.

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I'll admit I did mess up the quote a bit, and I apologize for that, but it's stuck with me for weeks. I wasn't sure if it was an attempt to pump up Brile's offense i.e. "his offense was so amazing that even an average quarterback would be a Heisman candidate in it!", or if he just really loves Shapen that much. But the fact that he started ringing the alarm for a troll alert on like four different people in that thread because they disagreed with him. And he didn't remember any of it? That's comedy gold

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You're a pathological liar, twisting this for your trolling on here, no one is buying it. I never said that.

For the record, No Quarterback is a troll and a pathological liar, pay he she no attention.

Well I will say Briles offense was amazing. Petty had 3 TD passes his senior year of high school and 6 interceptions but he prepared 3 years before starting but that had absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

What I find interesting is there are about 20 posters on this site that I think know anything about football and none are saying a word. I do find that interesting but excuse me for interrupting, rave on, have fun.

Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

That makes three Kansas State quarterbacks who have entered the portal. https://t.co/BUryuAuomJ

— Ten12 Podcast Network (@Ten12Network) November 28, 2023

bear2be2 said:

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soren said:

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You are BOR level delusional

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You seem to hold Blake Shapen in higher esteem than most, which is fine. I won't begrudge you that right.

But if the Sawyer Robertson we saw on Saturday shows up for a full season in 2024, we'll have upgraded that position. That's a big if, obviously, because it's a tiny data sample and Robertson didn't play very well early in the season. But if we can add another Sawyer Robertson level talent in the portal to compete in the spring, we'll likely be fine at that position.

And either way, our success or failure will depend far more on offensive line play and improvement in the defensive front than it will the quarterback position anyway.

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We were 2 kick return miracles from yet another patented Dave blowout

soren said:

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We're back to the Steele years

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We're not, thankfully. Even if we're terrible next year, we're in a much better spot institutionally than we were back then.

If next year goes as expected, we'll fire Aranda, replace him with a sought-after G5 coach and we'll be OK in time.

The decision to retain Aranda sets us back a year or two, certainly. But it's not as grim a picture as you're painting.

Geez people Steele years were tons worse, tons

To say now and Steele years compare means you are to young to have experienced Steele, or mmm, trying to come up with something

Dumb as a rock

TeamPlayer said:

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Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

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Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

Fre3dombear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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soren said:

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You are BOR level delusional

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You seem to hold Blake Shapen in higher esteem than most, which is fine. I won't begrudge you that right.

But if the Sawyer Robertson we saw on Saturday shows up for a full season in 2024, we'll have upgraded that position. That's a big if, obviously, because it's a tiny data sample and Robertson didn't play very well early in the season. But if we can add another Sawyer Robertson level talent in the portal to compete in the spring, we'll likely be fine at that position.

And either way, our success or failure will depend far more on offensive line play and improvement in the defensive front than it will the quarterback position anyway.

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We were 2 kick return miracles from yet another patented Dave blowout

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And ... ?

Robertson was damn near perfect in that game for an offense that averaged almost 6 yards per play.

I'll take his performance on Saturday every game next year and be very pleased with our quarterback play. It may not matter if we still can't block or defend. But I'll happily take that level of quarterback play.

Desperado718 said:

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Geez people Steele years were tons worse, tons

To say now and Steele years compare means you are to young to have experienced Steele, or mmm, trying to come up with something

Dumb as a rock

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For reference, we averaged ...

• 230.1 yards and 12.5 points per game in 1999
• 221.8 yards and 12.6 points per game in 2000
• 310.5 yards and 18.6 points per game in 2001
• 334.9 yards and 16.8 points per game in 2002

As bad as this year's team was, we were almost a touchdown better per game than Steele's best offense and only allowed more points per game than Steele's 2001 defense.

LOL

Bucky Richardsons Oline thought he was a complete jackass.

They won a lot of games with him under center.

bear2be2 said:

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soren said:

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We had a good QB, but we will find a better one according to the armchair QBs on here lol, we are ****ed. Hope we hire Dana Hologorson with some magic and I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it

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A lot of you seem very slow to adjust/adapt to the reality of the transfer portal era. There will be a whole lot of movement resulting in a net zero gain/loss for teams.

Middling guys like Shapen are a dime a dozen in the transfer portal, and many just bounce around year after year. There will be plenty of opportunities to replace him with a similarly talented player.

That doesn't mean Shapen is bad or that I want him to leave. But pretending that he's irreplaceable is silly.

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Sorry, but I really do not think you know what you are talking about or what it means what you think. You keep throwing around comments like they are fact, when the facts are indicating the exact opposite. We went from 12-2 to 6-7 to 3-9. We went from 4 G5 or better QBs to now 1 bad QB that has already transferred once. (The guy played in 6 games).

You tell us Drones, sucks. Shapen is a dime a dozen. No sweat losing him. Robertson looks better based on the WVU game...

Robertson threw 4 Ints to 2 Tds.

Drones threw 15 TDs and 3 Ints in the ACC and led Va Tech to a Bowl Game.
Shapen threw 13 TDs and 3 Ints.

But they are not worth losing sleep.



QBs are NOT a dime a dozen, which is why good ones get huge NIL. BU has bled good players for three years.

BUs transfers are not the norm and the same as Bama's issues. Bama has too many good players and the can't get on the field. Baylor is losing its competent players because they want to go somewhere to win. There is a huge difference.

Another "system" is not the answer. You can run the Wing-T and if it is run competently with players that fit it will be successful enough for a mid-level bowl game.

Let's see who we get to replace Grimes. Chances are shapen understands they are looking for a more wide open offensive scheme that will require a greater run threat than he offers.

The portal so far has not been a net zero for baylor. It has hurt us much more than it has helped. With the possible exception of Richardson, nobody coming in has been worth what we have lost going out.

Hopefully Aran_a and Hack can figure it out going forward, but not holding out hope.

bear2be2 said:

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soren said:

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We're back to the Steele years

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We're not, thankfully. Even if we're terrible next year, we're in a much better spot institutionally than we were back then.

If next year goes as expected, we'll fire Aranda, replace him with a sought-after G5 coach and we'll be OK in time.

The decision to retain Aranda sets us back a year or two, certainly. But it's not as grim a picture as you're painting.

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Bear2be2 saying things for which he accuses others of being an "apologist" when they say it . He is absolutely correct here on what he is saying on substance in this quote. I just find it interesting.

bear2be2 said:

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TeamPlayer said:

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Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

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Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

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Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

Golden Helmet said:

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LOL

Bucky Richardsons Oline thought he was a complete jackass.

They won a lot of games with him under center.

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What about Johnny Manziel's teammates? He would take them to revival and they loved him.

My memory of Richardson is he didn't bail out into a sack. He stepped into positive yardage. I have old man memory, but I bet it's pretty good.

FLBear5630 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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soren said:

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We had a good QB, but we will find a better one according to the armchair QBs on here lol, we are ****ed. Hope we hire Dana Hologorson with some magic and I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it

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A lot of you seem very slow to adjust/adapt to the reality of the transfer portal era. There will be a whole lot of movement resulting in a net zero gain/loss for teams.

Middling guys like Shapen are a dime a dozen in the transfer portal, and many just bounce around year after year. There will be plenty of opportunities to replace him with a similarly talented player.

That doesn't mean Shapen is bad or that I want him to leave. But pretending that he's irreplaceable is silly.

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Sorry, but I really do not think you know what you are talking about or what it means what you think. You keep throwing around comments like they are fact, when the facts are indicating the exact opposite. We went from 12-2 to 6-7 to 3-9. We went from 4 G5 or better QBs to now 1 bad QB that has already transferred once. (The guy played in 6 games).

You tell us Drones, sucks. Shapen is a dime a dozen. No sweat losing him. Robertson looks better based on the WVU game...

Robertson threw 4 Ints to 2 Tds.

Drones threw 15 TDs and 3 Ints in the ACC and led Va Tech to a Bowl Game.
Shapen threw 13 TDs and 3 Ints.

But they are not worth losing sleep.



QBs are NOT a dime a dozen, which is why good ones get huge NIL. BU has bled good players for three years.

BUs transfers are not the norm and the same as Bama's issues. Bama has too many good players and the can't get on the field. Baylor is losing its competent players because they want to go somewhere to win. There is a huge difference.

Another "system" is not the answer. You can run the Wing-T and if it is run competently with players that fit it will be successful enough for a mid-level bowl game.

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Anyone who thinks it's normal in the portal era for any team to have four G5 or better QBs on their roster needs to stop speaking like an authority on the subject. Those days are long gone.

The fact of the matter is that quarterbacks enter the portal at an insane rate, making dozens of starting caliber players available at the position every year. Baylor fans weep, wail and gnash their teeth over the loss of middling quarterbacks (I've never said Drones sucks, BTW), ignoring that a) virtually everyone -- peers and blue bloods -- are losing signal callers of similar or better quality and b) replacements of similar talent are available literally every offseason.

This is the new normal. Teams will almost never have more than two viable QBs on their rosters because players are no longer content to sit and wait their turn when they can start elsewhere. And teams will be replacing starters and backups frequently.

If you're not prepared for this reality -- and the reality of having a preferred walk-on or true freshman as your third-stringer -- you need to get there. Because that's reality whether you want to accept it or not.

PartyBear said:

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bear2be2 said:

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soren said:

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We're back to the Steele years

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We're not, thankfully. Even if we're terrible next year, we're in a much better spot institutionally than we were back then.

If next year goes as expected, we'll fire Aranda, replace him with a sought-after G5 coach and we'll be OK in time.

The decision to retain Aranda sets us back a year or two, certainly. But it's not as grim a picture as you're painting.

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Bear2be2 saying things for which he accuses others of being an "apologist" when they say it . He is absolutely correct here on what he is saying on substance in this quote. I just find it interesting.

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You get called an apologist because your criticisms never include Dave Aranda. They include everyone and everything but the coach who has actually driven our program to its current depths.

What I have been saying is that Aranda is not the sole problem. I believe nearly everyone sees this now.

TeamPlayer said:

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bear2be2 said:

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TeamPlayer said:

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Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

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Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

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Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

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He's comparable to all of them at the same stage of their careers -- RG3 excluded. Robertson will likely be a junior starter next season. None of those other guys -- except Griffin -- started as sophomores either. Florence was forced into action as a freshman and was overmatched and Petty was far enough behind as a sophomore that we had to burn Florence's redshirt for one half of football.

WA Jim said:

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He might have "layed it all out there" and "given everything he had" and "sacrificed his body for the team" and all that jazz - but at the end of the day - he was undersized, hung on to the ball too long and made a lot of bad reads. He just wasn't that good - Grimes hung his hat on em instead of GB. Didn't work out - best of luck to em - he's gonna need it.

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I think this is what many are missing. Sometimes it's better to read the blitz, dump to the athlete and let him do work.

Why sacrifice your body?

Shapen is not a leader, nor can he run. But, our Defense is crappy, too.

bear2be2 said:

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TeamPlayer said:

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bear2be2 said:

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TeamPlayer said:

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Shapen, Robertson. Whatever. I don't want to speak poorly of student-athletes, but let's not pretend either would even get an official visit when we had Florence, Russell, much less Petty and RG3. We are light years away from sniffing that success.

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Robertson was a significantly better recruit out of high school than any of those guys, RG3 included. He was a 92-grade 4-star with an elite offer list.

One terrible season has some of you guys divorced from reality. A bad team doesn't make everything associated with it terrible.

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Robertson has been out of high school 3 years and has only started due to QB injury. How does he compare to the guys named above?

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He's comparable to all of them at the same stage of their careers -- RG3 excluded. Robertson will likely be a junior starter next season. None of those other guys -- except Griffin -- started as sophomores either. Florence was forced into action as a freshman and was overmatched and Petty was far enough behind as a sophomore that we had to burn Florence's redshirt for one half of football.

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This. With the exception of a few consistent examples (i.e. Lincoln Riley's QBs), QBs generally need time to develop at the college level regardless of their rating out of high school, so, simply because a QB is not great in their first year in a system does not mean that they either (1) won't ever be a good QB or (2) that the staff is not developing them appropriately. In the case of Baylor, we can say what we want about Aranda and his staff, but Shapen was exponentially better in 2022 vs. 2021, and, if he continues on that trajectory, he could be a higher end P5 QB in either 2023 or 2024.