As it currently sits, Baylor has the top 2025 recruiting class in the Big 12 and No. 18 in the country pic.twitter.com/CJwsPi3gP8

— Will Turboff (@WillTurboff) December 25, 2023

Lowest average.

Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

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Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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I agree with your first statement. I also think you will find that I have never started a thread on recruiting, high school or otherwise. I have seen too many high ranked recruits never last and seen walk-ons reach All-American status. I just think it amusing that people will switch the argument to satisfy whatever message they want to project. I really don't follow it that closely.

I have no specific outlook on the future worth arguing about. Over my life, I have seen seemingly hopeless situations turn out fine. I have also seen optimistic situations fall through the floor. As far as the infusion of Spavital I would agree with your assessment, although I think a better offense can help the defense, from two standpoints. The first is that the defense will not be on the field as much and perhaps not fade at the end in games as they did against Utah and WV and they should be able to play with more confidence and aggression because when they do make a mistake they won't always be back on the field after 4 plays because the offense went 3 and out on a consistent basis.

With Aranda taking over the defense, I would expect improvement based on his track record in that area. I just don't understand why he wouldn't have taken it over a lot sooner. I think he was keeping a hands-off approach to give Powledge a chance to prove himself. That was obviously a mistake. Even in the business world, leaders sometimes let a failing situation last too long because they want to give an employee in a new position who they believe in a full opportunity to work things out and be a long-term highly successful employee, and often times that is the end result, but certainly not always. In business early failures can often times not be seen by the public or shareholders and we don't even know they happened. Different story when you are on national TV on the weekend. This may be what Baylor is doing with Aranda and what Aranda did with Powledge. I don't know. I only know I have no control over it, or even know the inside stories about it and no reason to spend a lot of time beating the same dead horse over and over again.

Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

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Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

BUGWBBear said:

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Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

---

Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

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I'm still looking for all the transfers (out) that were heavily predicted on this board. Face it, we have no idea how the mind of an 18 year-old thinks and now, how much money makes a difference.

blackie said:

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BUGWBBear said:

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Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

---

Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

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I'm still looking for all the transfers (out) that were heavily predicted on this board. Face it, we have no idea how the mind of an 18 year-old thinks and now, how much money makes a difference.

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I'm concerned in the level of coaching and leadership from Head Coach Zippy. He is the face of the program and if he and his staff cannot properly direct, develop, strength train, coach up, and have a direction of success that any 18-year old can realize and buy into, NIL is irrelevant.

Period.

2025 recruiting will be out they window. All will be reshuffled after we CDA is fired mid season after. going 1-4, 1-5 or 1-6, whenever the decision is made. I know I'm going out on a limb by assuming we will beat Tarleton State, but that's the only win I see on the schedule.

blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

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This 100%.

Of the 11 Big 12 teams with a commit as of 12/27/23, Baylor's Overall average rating per player ranks it #7 - which doesn't mean much given how early it is, but that average rating per player is both in line with Baylor's average ratings over the tracking era and is in the top half of the Big 12's classes for 2025.

CorsicanaBear said:

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2025 recruiting will be out they window. All will be reshuffled after we CDA is fired mid season after. going 1-4, 1-5 or 1-6, whenever the decision is made. I know I'm going out on a limb by assuming we will beat Tarleton State, but that's the only win I see on the schedule.

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This.....only that it'll be the end of next season.
Mack isn't firing Aranda mid-season.
Wouldn't be appreciated......

blackie said:

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BUGWBBear said:

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Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

---

Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

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I'm still looking for all the transfers (out) that were heavily predicted on this board. Face it, we have no idea how the mind of an 18 year-old thinks and now, how much money makes a difference.

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Yes literally everything predicted here that would happen if we kept Aranda, be it mass exodus of players, not finding anyone who will come here to coach for Aranda, not getting anything out of the portal etc have not only not come to pass but the opposite has occurred thus far.

bear2be2 said:

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PartyBear said:

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blackie said:

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BUGWBBear said:

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Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

---

Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

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I'm still looking for all the transfers (out) that were heavily predicted on this board. Face it, we have no idea how the mind of an 18 year-old thinks and now, how much money makes a difference.

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Yes literally everything predicted here that would happen if we kept Aranda, be it mass exodus of players, not finding anyone who will come here to coach for Aranda, not getting anything out of the portal etc have not only not come to pass but the opposite has occurred thus far.

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I think it's been a solid offseason so far and could be an objectively good one by the end of this portal cycle. But at this point, on-field results are the only thing that matter and the only thing that will get fans off Dave Aranda's back.

It is what it is. That's what happens when your coach takes a championship level product to 3-9 in two years and your AD elects to bring that guy back for a fifth season with no competitive justification.

Dave Aranda has lost all benefit of the doubt -- and the goodwill of most fans. He will be judged exclusively on wins and losses going forward. I think that's fair and I think he understands that.

I lose patience with those who feel a need to take a negative view of objectively positive things -- just as I do the opposite. But I also understand those who have given up on Aranda as Baylor's football coach and aren't particularly interested in celebrating secondary and tertiary achievements.

At this point, he wins or he's gone. Keeping players, hiring competent staff, adding some talented transfers for next year and getting off to a good start with our 2025 class are all good things. But they literally mean nothing to the present or future of our program if we don't win next season.

That dynamic makes it difficult for fans to buy in, especially after enduring losing seasons in three of Aranda's four on campus.

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No one is disputing that Aranda has lost the benefit of the doubt. The challenges in this thread (and several others) is that some take the stance that the sky is falling even in the face of objectively positive or neutral news. To that end Party Bear's examples are on point.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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PartyBear said:

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blackie said:

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BUGWBBear said:

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Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

---

Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

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I'm still looking for all the transfers (out) that were heavily predicted on this board. Face it, we have no idea how the mind of an 18 year-old thinks and now, how much money makes a difference.

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Yes literally everything predicted here that would happen if we kept Aranda, be it mass exodus of players, not finding anyone who will come here to coach for Aranda, not getting anything out of the portal etc have not only not come to pass but the opposite has occurred thus far.

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I think it's been a solid offseason so far and could be an objectively good one by the end of this portal cycle. But at this point, on-field results are the only thing that matter and the only thing that will get fans off Dave Aranda's back.

It is what it is. That's what happens when your coach takes a championship level product to 3-9 in two years and your AD elects to bring that guy back for a fifth season with no competitive justification.

Dave Aranda has lost all benefit of the doubt -- and the goodwill of most fans. He will be judged exclusively on wins and losses going forward. I think that's fair and I think he understands that.

I lose patience with those who feel a need to take a negative view of objectively positive things -- just as I do the opposite. But I also understand those who have given up on Aranda as Baylor's football coach and aren't particularly interested in celebrating secondary and tertiary achievements.

At this point, he wins or he's gone. Keeping players, hiring competent staff, adding some talented transfers for next year and getting off to a good start with our 2025 class are all good things. But they literally mean nothing to the present or future of our program if we don't win next season.

That dynamic makes it difficult for fans to buy in, especially after enduring losing seasons in three of Aranda's four on campus.

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No one is disputing that Aranda has lost the benefit of the doubt. The challenges in this thread (and several others) is that some take the stance that the sky is falling even in the face of objectively positive or neutral news. To that end Party Bear's examples are on point.

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I think that's a defense mechanism for people who don't want to be burned by Dave Aranda a second time, which is childish but human nature.

That said, I don't blame anyone who has decided they're no longer interested in or up to celebrating off-field "wins" with this staff, particularly given how over the top the celebration of such things so often is on this site.

PartyBear said:

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blackie said:

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BUGWBBear said:

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Bandito said:

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blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

---

Let's just forget averages and overall ratings. Until this COACH actually shows that he can do something with his recruits all that other stuff doesn't matter. As far as him doing something with his recruits I think it's Captain Obvious that he hasn't shown much. Look I'm just as hopeful as the next guy that the infusion of Spavital and his offense will help, but based on what I've seen the last couple of years and this defense I'm very skeptical.

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Me too. Another 3-8 and watch those commits flee.

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I'm still looking for all the transfers (out) that were heavily predicted on this board. Face it, we have no idea how the mind of an 18 year-old thinks and now, how much money makes a difference.

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Yes literally everything predicted here that would happen if we kept Aranda, be it mass exodus of players, not finding anyone who will come here to coach for Aranda, not getting anything out of the portal etc have not only not come to pass but the opposite has occurred thus far.

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What predictions? I don't remember anybody predicting that literally no transfers would come here or that we literally would not be able to replace position coaches. This is a weird defense of Aranda IMHO

A. We have won 9 games out of the last 25. A mass exodus of players may have been for the best

B. Jury is still out on the quality of coaches. Not overly impressed with the offensive line hire. Probably upgraded running back coach. Offensive coordinator is a wash objectively. Grimes and Mateos both immediately got P5 gigs again, so clearly the football world doesn't view them as garbage, and you could make an argument that they were scapegoated so that aranda could prove that he was trying something different

C. I'm glad that we're getting players out of the portal. That has more to do with the fact that we are finally opening up the coffers of NIL money and less to do with how amazing Aranda is. I'm not discrediting that the players like Aranda, but what's not to like about a coach that isn't going to pressure his players to win and instead takes the warm grandfatherly approach while also paying them to stay and get a 100% free college education?

Three-star Shadow Creek (Texas) linebacker Anthony Williams (@A2Williams22) will choose between Auburn, Baylor, Notre Dame, Oregon and Texas today at 4:30

Williams is teammates with recent #SicEm commit Ashton Jones

🎥: https://t.co/KOEgV0biUL pic.twitter.com/KhTjovo4nb

— Will Turboff (@WillTurboff) January 1, 2024

boognish_bear said:

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Three-star Shadow Creek (Texas) linebacker Anthony Williams (@A2Williams22) will choose between Auburn, Baylor, Notre Dame, Oregon and Texas today at 4:30

Williams is teammates with recent #SicEm commit Ashton Jones

🎥: https://t.co/KOEgV0biUL pic.twitter.com/KhTjovo4nb

— Will Turboff (@WillTurboff) January 1, 2024

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BOOM! Texas lands a commitment from Pearland (Texas) Shadow Creek three-star linebacker Anthony “Deuce” Williams! @A2Williams22 | @Horns247

Williams is the fourth member of the #AllGas25 recruiting class and discussed the decision with @Horns247

🔗: https://t.co/oaBhlS0RIv pic.twitter.com/gcqNzrAlhM

— Jordan Scruggs (@JScruggs247) January 1, 2024

Southside (AL) 2025 OL Jamin Brown (@JaminBrown71) Commits to Baylor.

The 6-foot-5, 303-pound prospect becomes commit No. 5 in Baylor's 2025 class. #SicEm https://t.co/ZXtTIwdZTW via @sicem365_

— Grayson Grundhoefer (@GrayGrundhoefer) January 7, 2024

Quite the haul for Bears’ new offensive line coach Chris Kapilovic since he was introduced at Baylor last month

- 2025 Jamin Brown
- Ohio transfer Kurt Danneker
- Montana State transfer Omar Aigbedion pic.twitter.com/BYpTkw0dyO

— Will Turboff (@WillTurboff) January 7, 2024

🔒 @BUFootball #SicEm #blessed @CoachDaveAranda @CoachCKap @ahunt90 @Southside_FBall @RanceBrown10 @wesbrown916 @CoachMHolcomb @shankles_turner @CoachL__ @CoachHsbs @UnLockYourGame @TheUCReport @AverageJoesSpo1 @HallTechSports1 @On3sports @ChadSimmons_ @SWiltfong247 pic.twitter.com/NLz13RN1h3

— Jamin Brown (@JaminBrown71) January 7, 2024

boognish_bear said:

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Southside (AL) 2025 OL Jamin Brown (@JaminBrown71) Commits to Baylor.

The 6-foot-5, 303-pound prospect becomes commit No. 5 in Baylor's 2025 class. #SicEm https://t.co/ZXtTIwdZTW via @sicem365_

— Grayson Grundhoefer (@GrayGrundhoefer) January 7, 2024

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We be Jamin!

The new OL coach is kicking butt with the recruiting. Waiting to see what our new RB coach brings in, he's an excellent recruiter

He's committed to SMU. Might be one our new RB coach can flip. Also has an offer from Arky.

I will be at Baylor on the 28th ! @CoachK_Hall @_PJHall @CoachRHolcomb pic.twitter.com/7ni0t5xYpe

— Agent “ 3 “ ✨ (@DEMETRIUSBRISB2) January 9, 2024

#Baylor is set to host Junior Day on January 28th. The list is already in the double digits.

Baylor's 2025 class is top 20 in the nation currently and might be even higher soon. #SicEm

Follow along on @SicEm365_ (Premium)https://t.co/5Wp34LrExj pic.twitter.com/TOo4xRPct4

— Grayson Grundhoefer (@GrayGrundhoefer) January 10, 2024

That’s fantastic @justin_dungy. Baylor is a great school with a fantastic football program. Now you have to take your time, pray, and figure out the right place for you. https://t.co/DnBJfvrlQZ

— Tony Dungy (@TonyDungy) January 18, 2024

Lancaster LB KB Winston recaps his Junior Day visit, strong relationships with Christian Robinson and Khenon Hall, and more.

“Person over player means a lot, more than what it actually says.” #SicEm

🔗: https://t.co/m7Z2Pr1x53 pic.twitter.com/FD3Kk9AKTg

— Grayson Grundhoefer (@GrayGrundhoefer) February 1, 2024

#Baylor signed two 4⭐️ prospects today for the 2024 class and is currently No. 16 in the nation and No. 1 in the Big 12 for the 2025 recruiting class.

Long way to go but the momentum on the recruiting trail is real for the Bears right now. #SicEm

— Grayson Grundhoefer (@GrayGrundhoefer) February 7, 2024

The #Baylor 2025 recruiting class is now ranked No. 13 in the nation according to 247. #SicEm

— Grayson Grundhoefer (@GrayGrundhoefer) February 14, 2024

blackie said:

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So now average matters? We were told here that it didn't matter in 2024, only the actual rating which takes into account the number of signees. I guess the stats chosen can be used to support whatever opinion one wants to have on the quality of a class.

It seems at this point that for 2025 none of it matters because there are so few commitments out of the population of potential recruits at this point to draw any conclusions.

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Average is what really matters. Rating based off of numbers is ridiculous. Would you rather have a class of 10 5-stars or 25 3-stars?

Class rankings never meant much to me. Both Briles and Rhule showed you can find guys that were missed and under ranked. I've also seen coaches take supposedly great players and do very little with them (aTm, Tenn, USC etc)

The rankings mean even less now with the portal and NIL because there's no guarantee they are actually coming and even if they do, will they stay?

From national recruiting analyst

New #Baylor 2025 RB commit Caden Knighten is a 10.6 100m dash guy at 200-pounds. Had a prolific sophomore season. An explosive player that adds to the Bears No. 13 ranked recruiting class early in the cycle. https://t.co/5Rx2V90RCX pic.twitter.com/1ygu95wqiQ

— Steve Wiltfong (@SWiltfong247) February 14, 2024

Caden getting the word out

LETS GO!! top 15 for recruiting in 25’ #SicEm 🐻🟢@BUFootball @CoachK_Hall pic.twitter.com/RkSpp8Qved

— Caden “CK1” knighten (@cadenknighten) February 17, 2024