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Baylor Football

Baylor Football Releases New Uniforms Ahead of the 2024 Season

May 28, 2024
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On Tuesday, the Baylor Football program released its new uniforms for the 2024 football season. This is the first completely new design since the one’s that were released prior to the 2019 season.

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Baylor Football Releases New Uniforms Ahead of the 2024 Season

23,588 Views | 77 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by MrGolfguy
SurfingBear
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Cove Dawg said:

bear2be2 said:

I like them.

Many of the best and cleanest uniforms in the college game (Auburn, LSU, Ohio State, Washington etc., utilize this exact same design. It looks good in any color combination -- ours included.

Add some stripes to the helmets and these are about as good as you can do with these colors.


Mustard yellow is not our color! Vegas gold is.

Vegas gold has never been Baylor's color. The school colors were picked after a dandelion flower, literally green and "yellow".

Baylor finally unified under one brand and color scheme. Baylor looks like an actual school/brand now and not some random assortment of color shades.


bear2be2
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Cove Dawg said:

bear2be2 said:

I like them.

Many of the best and cleanest uniforms in the college game (Auburn, LSU, Ohio State, Washington etc., utilize this exact same design. It looks good in any color combination -- ours included.

Add some stripes to the helmets and these are about as good as you can do with these colors.


Mustard yellow is not our color! Vegas gold is.
This isn't actually true and it's been stated over and over and over again.

Our official color is the dandelion color we currently use. You can not like it. I prefer real gold myself. But if anything, this is a return to our university's roots, not a departure from it.
MrGolfguy
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Cove Dawg said:


Mustard yellow is not our color! Vegas gold is.
PartyBear
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Baylor's own website says the dandelion story (which is lame anyway) is just legend. The student body voted on the colors and picked green and gold about the time we picked the Bear over the Buffalo as the mascot. If we had picked green and yellow we would have always said those were our colors the past 130 or so years rather than always having said our colors are green and gold.

These unis are like our having unveiled a new bear logo a few years after green bears debut and it turns out the new logo is just green bear wearing a yellow sweatshirt and yellow cap and then claiming it is all new and not the same at all and the best in history on top of that.
Stranger
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bear2be2 said:

Cove Dawg said:

bear2be2 said:

I like them.

Many of the best and cleanest uniforms in the college game (Auburn, LSU, Ohio State, Washington etc., utilize this exact same design. It looks good in any color combination -- ours included.

Add some stripes to the helmets and these are about as good as you can do with these colors.


Mustard yellow is not our color! Vegas gold is.
This isn't actually true and it's been stated over and over and over again.

Our official color is the dandelion color we currently use. You can not like it. I prefer real gold myself. But if anything, this is a return to our university's roots, not a departure from it.


it still sucks
bear2be2
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PartyBear said:

Baylor's own website says the dandelion story (which is lame anyway) is just legend. The student body voted on the colors and picked green and gold about the time we picked the Bear over the Buffalo as the mascot. If we had picked green and yellow we would have always said those were our colors the past 130 or so years rather than always having said our colors are green and gold.

These unis are like our having unveiled a new bear logo a few years after green bears debut and it turns out the new logo is just green bear wearing a yellow sweatshirt and yellow cap and then claiming it is all new and not the same at all and the best in history on top of that.
Baylor's own website said this -- long before we had yellow football uniforms.

https://www2.baylor.edu/baylorproud/2017/03/why-are-green-and-gold-baylors-official-school-colors/

And this.

https://blogs.baylor.edu/texascollection/2017/09/07/origin-of-green-and-gold/
Stranger
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bear2be2 said:

PartyBear said:

Baylor's own website says the dandelion story (which is lame anyway) is just legend. The student body voted on the colors and picked green and gold about the time we picked the Bear over the Buffalo as the mascot. If we had picked green and yellow we would have always said those were our colors the past 130 or so years rather than always having said our colors are green and gold.

These unis are like our having unveiled a new bear logo a few years after green bears debut and it turns out the new logo is just green bear wearing a yellow sweatshirt and yellow cap and then claiming it is all new and not the same at all and the best in history on top of that.
Baylor's own website said this -- long before we had yellow football uniforms.

https://www2.baylor.edu/baylorproud/2017/03/why-are-green-and-gold-baylors-official-school-colors/

And this.

https://blogs.baylor.edu/texascollection/2017/09/07/origin-of-green-and-gold/


it still sucks
bear2be2
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Stranger said:

bear2be2 said:

PartyBear said:

Baylor's own website says the dandelion story (which is lame anyway) is just legend. The student body voted on the colors and picked green and gold about the time we picked the Bear over the Buffalo as the mascot. If we had picked green and yellow we would have always said those were our colors the past 130 or so years rather than always having said our colors are green and gold.

These unis are like our having unveiled a new bear logo a few years after green bears debut and it turns out the new logo is just green bear wearing a yellow sweatshirt and yellow cap and then claiming it is all new and not the same at all and the best in history on top of that.
Baylor's own website said this -- long before we had yellow football uniforms.

https://www2.baylor.edu/baylorproud/2017/03/why-are-green-and-gold-baylors-official-school-colors/

And this.

https://blogs.baylor.edu/texascollection/2017/09/07/origin-of-green-and-gold/


it still sucks
That's a valid opinion. As I've said at least three times today, I prefer real gold personally.

But this is our actual school color, as decided by those tasked with making that decision more than 100 years ago.

Those crying about it or trying to rewrite history to suit their agenda are being goofy.
RightRevBear
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bear2be2 said:

PartyBear said:

Baylor's own website says the dandelion story (which is lame anyway) is just legend. The student body voted on the colors and picked green and gold about the time we picked the Bear over the Buffalo as the mascot. If we had picked green and yellow we would have always said those were our colors the past 130 or so years rather than always having said our colors are green and gold.

These unis are like our having unveiled a new bear logo a few years after green bears debut and it turns out the new logo is just green bear wearing a yellow sweatshirt and yellow cap and then claiming it is all new and not the same at all and the best in history on top of that.
Baylor's own website said this -- long before we had yellow football uniforms.

https://www2.baylor.edu/baylorproud/2017/03/why-are-green-and-gold-baylors-official-school-colors/

And this.

https://blogs.baylor.edu/texascollection/2017/09/07/origin-of-green-and-gold/


Interesting because Baylor's branding page refers to this story by saying "as legends has it."

https://brand.web.baylor.edu/brand-standards/official-brand-colors

I think we need a historian deep dive. Is Dr. Lefever available?
RightRevBear
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I do find it interesting that the only primary source material we have is a letter written by a lady over 50 years after the event supposedly occurred.

Casting aside any aspersions about Mrs. Sara Rose Kendall Irvine as to her character due to not knowing her, and I will give a fellow alum the benefit of the doubt. How do we not know that she mis-remembered or had dementia?

Also, maybe the committee changed it to gold, instead of dandelion yellow, because they didn't like the yellow. They might have not told her this due to not wanting an argument or to make her upset. This never happens in Baptist institutions.

Looking at this with a critical eye, I think legend is about the only way to describe the retelling over 50 years later with no corroborating facts. Do we have a record of Mrs. Irvine and other students meeting with the president concerning school colors? Are there any school newspapers covering the decision to make these the school colors? Are there any other documents that say she was on this committee or any minutes on their meeting discussions?

I say all of this to say that this story does not have enough supporting evidence to justify that it is any more than a legend.

What we do have is an Alma mater written in 1906 the says Green and Gold? I want gold, not mustard yellow.
SurfingBear
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RightRevBear said:

I do find it interesting that the only primary source material we have is a letter written by a lady over 50 years after the event supposedly occurred.

Casting aside any aspersions about Mrs. Sara Rose Kendall Irvine as to her character due to not knowing her, and I will give a fellow alum the benefit of the doubt. How do we not know that she mis-remembered or had dementia?

Also, maybe the committee changed it to gold, instead of dandelion yellow, because they didn't like the yellow. They might have not told her this due to not wanting an argument or to make her upset. This never happens in Baptist institutions.

Looking at this with a critical eye, I think legend is about the only way to describe the retelling over 50 years later with no corroborating facts. Do we have a record of Mrs. Irvine and other students meeting with the president concerning school colors? Are there any school newspapers covering the decision to make these the school colors? Are there any other documents that say she was on this committee or any minutes on their meeting discussions?

I say all of this to say that this story does not have enough supporting evidence to justify that it is any more than a legend.

What we do have is an Alma mater written in 1906 the says Green and Gold? I want gold, not mustard yellow.


Let us review your "critical eye".

Fact, Ms. Sara Rose was as primary a source as you can get. Still, you ask us to consider some outlandish hypotheticals to refute her with no proof of your own.

You argue as follows:

1: She may have had dementia...? Erroneous unless you have proof. Even then, that doesn't mean she is mistaken on this fact.. Long term memory is not always affected the same as short term memory.

2: She may have misremembered picking the school colors...? Unlikely given the magnitude of such an event. She even committed her memory to writing. Your assertion is baseless and purely hypothetical.

3: Baylor changed to the color to "gold" and misled her because they are Baptist...? Sounds suspect at best and scandalous at worst. This contention should be dismissed unless you can proffer some evidence immediately.

4: If there are not records it's just legend... First, Baylor adopted and published her version of events. So legend or not, it's official. Second, there is the letter you reference and Baylor is not refuting it. In other words, it's more than legend, it's tradition.

Basically, a critical analysis leads to one conclusion, "gold" and "yellow" are to be viewed artistically, NOT literally to mean the metallic element on the periodic table. In fact, the dandelion is described as being "golden" yellow.

You have not looked at this with a critical eye; your motives betray your ability to be critical... and I quote "I want gold not mustard yellow."



RightRevBear
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SurfingBear said:

RightRevBear said:

I do find it interesting that the only primary source material we have is a letter written by a lady over 50 years after the event supposedly occurred.

Casting aside any aspersions about Mrs. Sara Rose Kendall Irvine as to her character due to not knowing her, and I will give a fellow alum the benefit of the doubt. How do we not know that she mis-remembered or had dementia?

Also, maybe the committee changed it to gold, instead of dandelion yellow, because they didn't like the yellow. They might have not told her this due to not wanting an argument or to make her upset. This never happens in Baptist institutions.

Looking at this with a critical eye, I think legend is about the only way to describe the retelling over 50 years later with no corroborating facts. Do we have a record of Mrs. Irvine and other students meeting with the president concerning school colors? Are there any school newspapers covering the decision to make these the school colors? Are there any other documents that say she was on this committee or any minutes on their meeting discussions?

I say all of this to say that this story does not have enough supporting evidence to justify that it is any more than a legend.

What we do have is an Alma mater written in 1906 the says Green and Gold? I want gold, not mustard yellow.


Let us review your "critical eye".

Fact, Ms. Sara Rose was as primary a source as you can get. Still, you ask us to consider some outlandish hypotheticals to refute her with no proof of your own.

You argue as follows:

1: She may have had dementia...? Erroneous unless you have proof. Even then, that doesn't mean she is mistaken on this fact.. Long term memory is not always affected the same as short term memory.

2: She may have misremembered picking the school colors...? Unlikely given the magnitude of such an event. She even committed her memory to writing. Your assertion is baseless and purely hypothetical.

3: Baylor changed to the color to "gold" and misled her because they are Baptist...? Sounds suspect at best and scandalous at worst. This contention should be dismissed unless you can proffer some evidence immediately.

4: If there are not records it's just legend... First, Baylor adopted and published her version of events. So legend or not, it's official. Second, there is the letter you reference and Baylor is not refuting it. In other words, it's more than legend, it's tradition.

Basically, a critical analysis leads to one conclusion, "gold" and "yellow" are to be viewed artistically, NOT literally to mean the metallic element on the periodic table. In fact, the dandelion is described as being "golden" yellow.

You have not looked at this with a critical eye; your motives betray your ability to be critical... and I quote "I want gold not mustard yellow."








Ok let's go through each one.

Prove she is a primary source. The burden is on you. The rule of thumb is that the source has to be proven reliable. We have nothing but a letter from her stating that she is the originator over 60 years (1897 to 1959) after it supposedly occurred. Also, the years on her story are interesting. She had to be at least a six year student. (I do not say this negatively. I took an extra year and a half on my masters due to getting married.) If it was first used in March 25th 1897, but it was probably 1896 when she saw the weeds. Dandelions appear in March, but the big blooms are in late April in Central Texas.



Even if they bloomed early, It would have been difficult to return from the trip, the committee make a decision, get admins. approval, and coordinate with the glee club by March 25, 1897. The letter itself says the colors were probably adopted in 1897.

1. You are right about not knowing and that long-term memory is usually the last to go. I made this point in light of no other evidence to her 60+ year old story. We don't know her mental state. I wouldn't throw this out just on this hypothetical, but we are assuming she is a good historian of the event 60+ years later if we accept her statement.

2. You are right it is completely hypothetical. I did not portray it as anything but hypothetical, but to state something as fact from one source with no other supporting evidence does not make it a trustworthy source. She did commit it to writing 60 years later which makes me more skeptical.

3. I say this as an active Baptist minister. There are plenty of times in which committees will make a soft suggestion to get their way. Let's call it Gold, instead of yellow, when they have no intention of it being yellow.

4. In a blog post they recounted the story. In their branding colors page they say it is a legend. You say it is legend when the people who are responsible for proper color branding at Baylor say it is legend. Also many legends can become tradition.

My whole point is that stating something is fact based off of one piece of evidence from a person who is the "hero" of the story is not good scholarship. This is compounded by the length of time from when it supposedly occurred to when she wrote the letter. I find it strange that there is no other supporting evidence.

What I do know is that golden yellow is not gold. Our Alma mater says gold. Our own website says that it is a legend. The story that has been published multiple times is based off of one letter with no other corroborating evidence. I am a person that believes sources have to be proven, not disproven, because this leads to bad scholarship and reporting.

It is like the people who say that the COVID-19 vaccines contained microchips that the government uses to track us. They offer "proof", but it is not reliable. I am not going to accept it at prima facie. I am going to use my critical mind to say this doesn't make sense when the government can track most of the population through their cell phones already. Why would the government care about putting trackers in us when we voluntarily choose to carry a tracker with us everywhere we go?

What I am saying is for this story to be accepted as fact you need to have more supporting evidence.
VaeBear
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I always took that the dandelion story inspired the colors green and gold. Not that we made our colors the exact green and yellow of the dandelions.
SurfingBear
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RightRevBear said:

SurfingBear said:

RightRevBear said:

I do find it interesting that the only primary source material we have is a letter written by a lady over 50 years after the event supposedly occurred.

Casting aside any aspersions about Mrs. Sara Rose Kendall Irvine as to her character due to not knowing her, and I will give a fellow alum the benefit of the doubt. How do we not know that she mis-remembered or had dementia?

Also, maybe the committee changed it to gold, instead of dandelion yellow, because they didn't like the yellow. They might have not told her this due to not wanting an argument or to make her upset. This never happens in Baptist institutions.

Looking at this with a critical eye, I think legend is about the only way to describe the retelling over 50 years later with no corroborating facts. Do we have a record of Mrs. Irvine and other students meeting with the president concerning school colors? Are there any school newspapers covering the decision to make these the school colors? Are there any other documents that say she was on this committee or any minutes on their meeting discussions?

I say all of this to say that this story does not have enough supporting evidence to justify that it is any more than a legend.

What we do have is an Alma mater written in 1906 the says Green and Gold? I want gold, not mustard yellow.


Let us review your "critical eye".

Fact, Ms. Sara Rose was as primary a source as you can get. Still, you ask us to consider some outlandish hypotheticals to refute her with no proof of your own.

You argue as follows:

1: She may have had dementia...? Erroneous unless you have proof. Even then, that doesn't mean she is mistaken on this fact.. Long term memory is not always affected the same as short term memory.

2: She may have misremembered picking the school colors...? Unlikely given the magnitude of such an event. She even committed her memory to writing. Your assertion is baseless and purely hypothetical.

3: Baylor changed to the color to "gold" and misled her because they are Baptist...? Sounds suspect at best and scandalous at worst. This contention should be dismissed unless you can proffer some evidence immediately.

4: If there are not records it's just legend... First, Baylor adopted and published her version of events. So legend or not, it's official. Second, there is the letter you reference and Baylor is not refuting it. In other words, it's more than legend, it's tradition.

Basically, a critical analysis leads to one conclusion, "gold" and "yellow" are to be viewed artistically, NOT literally to mean the metallic element on the periodic table. In fact, the dandelion is described as being "golden" yellow.

You have not looked at this with a critical eye; your motives betray your ability to be critical... and I quote "I want gold not mustard yellow."








Ok let's go through each one.

Prove she is a primary source. The burden is on you. The rule of thumb is that the source has to be proven reliable. We have nothing but a letter from her stating that she is the originator over 60 years (1897 to 1959) after it supposedly occurred. Also, the years on her story are interesting. She had to be at least a six year student. (I do not say this negatively. I took an extra year and a half on my masters due to getting married.) If it was first used in March 25th 1897, but it was probably 1896 when she saw the weeds. Dandelions appear in March, but the big blooms are in late April in Central Texas.



Even if they bloomed early, It would have been difficult to return from the trip, the committee make a decision, get admins. approval, and coordinate with the glee club by March 25, 1897. The letter itself says the colors were probably adopted in 1897.

1. You are right about not knowing and that long-term memory is usually the last to go. I made this point in light of no other evidence to her 60+ year old story. We don't know her mental state. I wouldn't throw this out just on this hypothetical, but we are assuming she is a good historian of the event 60+ years later if we accept her statement.

2. You are right it is completely hypothetical. I did not portray it as anything but hypothetical, but to state something as fact from one source with no other supporting evidence does not make it a trustworthy source. She did commit it to writing 60 years later which makes me more skeptical.

3. I say this as an active Baptist minister. There are plenty of times in which committees will make a soft suggestion to get their way. Let's call it Gold, instead of yellow, when they have no intention of it being yellow.

4. In a blog post they recounted the story. In their branding colors page they say it is a legend. You say it is legend when the people who are responsible for proper color branding at Baylor say it is legend. Also many legends can become tradition.

My whole point is that stating something is fact based off of one piece of evidence from a person who is the "hero" of the story is not good scholarship. This is compounded by the length of time from when it supposedly occurred to when she wrote the letter. I find it strange that there is no other supporting evidence.

What I do know is that golden yellow is not gold. Our Alma mater says gold. Our own website says that it is a legend. The story that has been published multiple times is based off of one letter with no other corroborating evidence. I am a person that believes sources have to be proven, not disproven, because this leads to bad scholarship and reporting.

It is like the people who say that the COVID-19 vaccines contained microchips that the government uses to track us. They offer "proof", but it is not reliable. I am not going to accept it at prima facie. I am going to use my critical mind to say this doesn't make sense when the government can track most of the population through their cell phones already. Why would the government care about putting trackers in us when we voluntarily choose to carry a tracker with us everywhere we go?

What I am saying is for this story to be accepted as fact you need to have more supporting evidence.

There is really only one point you are making, and that is the dandelion story is a legend and therefore you think metallic gold is the school color. But like the Big Lebowski said "Yeah, Well, you know, that's like uh, your opinion man."

It's really simple to decern what Baylor means when they use the word "Gold"… other than they told us the school color is Yellow/gold:

1: Baylor adopted the dandelion story to make clear to you that gold/yellow is the school's color.

2: 1930s looks like they were using green and yellow, not gold. "Photo courtesy of Baylor University Texas Collection."

3: 1940s Baylor's slime cap was green and yellow, not gold.

4: 1950s: Baylor's logo, Sailor Bear, was yellow, not gold.

5: 1990s-current: The freshmen wear yellow line jerseys, not gold, but Baylor calls them the GOLD line jersey…

6: 2000s: My acceptance letter/packet to Baylor was Green and Yellow… not gold.

7: Baylor's website was using yellow long before the "Baylor United Colors" were applied for branding purposes to Baylor's sports teams. This is important because it negates the argument that yellow was only used because gold was not possible or practical. (It's a weak point if made anyway, just as ND, UCLA, WF, W…)

The primary sources of Baylor's colors are all around you and have been for a long time. Football teams don't choose the school colors, they wear them… This is the exact reason why Baylor had to do the "color united" marketing.


canoso
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Are there any extant color images of any previous BU uniform that has the colors we currently use? If so, please post them here. I'm talking at any previous point in our whole football history.
SurfingBear
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I was looking and couldn't find any that were not black and white.
PartyBear
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You can go to the helmet project and look up Baylor. The earliest photos of the leather helmet are described as "old Gold" 9 which was the color we wore to close the Case game, or "light brown" with "forest green" painted stripes. In the photo shown of the player in the leather helmet, though black and white, you can see it is reflecting the sun like a metallic painted helmet and has the same appearance of the later hard shell old gold helmets ( the modern duplicate of which we wore in that 2013 game mentioned, in black and white photos.
canoso
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So, nothing so far.
whitetrash
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canoso said:

So, nothing so far.
Here's probably the earliest color video of BU uniforms, from the 1957 Sugar Bowl. We wore our traditional green jerseys, white pants and shiny gold war bonnets.




I've got my mother's 1949 and 1950 Roundups at home. I'll see if there are any color pictures of football in them, but I kinda doubt it. I've also got my grandmother's Roundups from 1924 thru 1927, but I know those were all black & white.
bear2be2
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PartyBear said:

You can go to the helmet project and look up Baylor. The earliest photos of the leather helmet are described as "old Gold" 9 which was the color we wore to close the Case game, or "light brown" with "forest green" painted stripes. In the photo shown of the player in the leather helmet, though black and white, you can see it is reflecting the sun like a metallic painted helmet and has the same appearance of the later hard shell old gold helmets ( the modern duplicate of which we wore in that 2013 game mentioned, in black and white photos.
And if you look below the helmet, everything was yellow up through like 1988.

The helmets were the only thing that was gold for decades.

The funny thing about all of this consternation is that our new white pants are just a more modern variation of what we wore in the Singletary era, with the exact same color "gold."
SurfingBear
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I don't think anyone suggests the football team hasn't been wearing Gold helmets. Everyone knows they have. The question is, are they wearing the school color or are they wearing a gold helmet they chose because it was shiny?

The other evidence from Baylor suggests the color was yellow and the football team just liked shiny gold helmets.

Fortunately Baylor has said we are going to have a united front and the football team will now wear the school colors... even if they think the shiny gold bonnets are cool... maybe Baylor gets and alternate helmet that is a throw back to the days Baylor did not care about wearing school colors.
PartyBear
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Did you see the numbers on the leather helmet days? They look like the same color as the leather helmets in that picture.
Bandito
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I would prefer contrasting colors. Yellow shorts, green or white tops and yellow hat as opposed to the full banana or full pickle look.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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New uniform thread is the hottest one on the Baylor Football Board. Unbelievable but not surprised. We are Baylor.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
Dia del DougO
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Wow, such creativity. BU is taking blandness to new exciting levels.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
PartyBear
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I didn't realize the dandelion story started being told in the early 1960s (some 63 or so years after our schools colors of green and gold were chosen). Started by a lady who by then would have been in her 80s claiming responsibility. She never brought it up before to anyone? Baylor just had no idea where the colors came from the 1890s until the early 60s? Yeah sure. My understanding from Professor Reid in the 1980s, who was probably decently reliable about the matter was that the student body voted on school colors and mascot about the time we started forming sports teams. The combo of green and gold and Bears won obviously (or perhaps not obviously to some lol). I'm not sure if green and gold were running mates on the ballot agains t other combos or if they were the top vote getters. I seem to remember something like blue and black were also colors on the ballot. I do remember Buffaloes also being a mascot candidate and I think came in second. I remember thinking Colorado is what we could have looked like when he was talking about this had black beat out green for first or second place with gold still being the other top vote getter or if black and gold was another combo on the ballot. I also remember thinking we could have looked like UCLA. That is why I seem to think he did mention black and blue being among colors to pick from.
OsoCoreyell
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Boom with the black alternate unis!!!!
Stefano DiMera
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I can't tell if this thread is satire or are y'all really debating this.

I'm expecting some of you to request the exhumation of the body of the woman who saw the dandelions and shake the truth out of her for Christ's sake!
bear2be2
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When displayed like this, these uniforms look really good, top to bottom.

We may not play well this fall, but we're going to look good.
BUBBFAN
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bear2be2 said:



When displayed like this, these uniforms look really good, top to bottom.

We may not play well this fall, but we're going to look good.

My mother used to tell me, "You may not be able to play, but you can always look good on the first tee."
MrGolfguy
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Definitely better than what they've been rollin' with the past 5 years
Grumpy
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Ok, so only the black uniforms say "Baylor" across the front? The others appear to only have the bear head at the base of the neck.
Yogi
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I think the issue with the unis is the same as it was when we decided to keep Coach Aranda this past year.

The base of the unis is unchanged; it just has some fancy striping to distract you from the fact that nothing has really changed.
"Smarter than the Average Bear."
whitetrash
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whitetrash said:

canoso said:

So, nothing so far.
Here's probably the earliest color video of BU uniforms, from the 1957 Sugar Bowl. We wore our traditional green jerseys, white pants and shiny gold war bonnets.




I've got my mother's 1949 and 1950 Roundups at home. I'll see if there are any color pictures of football in them, but I kinda doubt it. I've also got my grandmother's Roundups from 1924 thru 1927, but I know those were all black & white.
I finally pulled out the old Roundups last night. Everything was in black & white, but here's a summary:

1924 (SWC champion year): dark tinted jerseys (I presume were green), but pants were obviously not white (but not as dark as jerseys). So I presume pants were a goldish/khaki color, not yellow. Leather helmets, so you couldn't tell any color variations there.

1948 (first bowl year). Helmets were most definitely shiny old gold with single green stripe (similar to the 2013 UT game throwbacks). But.....THERE WERE THREE STRIPES ON THE SLEEVES (green/yellow/green). Pants were white with narrow green/yellow/green stripe that we wore in some variation until 1990 when Teaff switched to vegas gold (with the exception of the Bill Beall years when we wore mustard pants).
RightRevBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SurfingBear said:

RightRevBear said:

SurfingBear said:

RightRevBear said:

I do find it interesting that the only primary source material we have is a letter written by a lady over 50 years after the event supposedly occurred.

Casting aside any aspersions about Mrs. Sara Rose Kendall Irvine as to her character due to not knowing her, and I will give a fellow alum the benefit of the doubt. How do we not know that she mis-remembered or had dementia?

Also, maybe the committee changed it to gold, instead of dandelion yellow, because they didn't like the yellow. They might have not told her this due to not wanting an argument or to make her upset. This never happens in Baptist institutions.

Looking at this with a critical eye, I think legend is about the only way to describe the retelling over 50 years later with no corroborating facts. Do we have a record of Mrs. Irvine and other students meeting with the president concerning school colors? Are there any school newspapers covering the decision to make these the school colors? Are there any other documents that say she was on this committee or any minutes on their meeting discussions?

I say all of this to say that this story does not have enough supporting evidence to justify that it is any more than a legend.

What we do have is an Alma mater written in 1906 the says Green and Gold? I want gold, not mustard yellow.


Let us review your "critical eye".

Fact, Ms. Sara Rose was as primary a source as you can get. Still, you ask us to consider some outlandish hypotheticals to refute her with no proof of your own.

You argue as follows:

1: She may have had dementia...? Erroneous unless you have proof. Even then, that doesn't mean she is mistaken on this fact.. Long term memory is not always affected the same as short term memory.

2: She may have misremembered picking the school colors...? Unlikely given the magnitude of such an event. She even committed her memory to writing. Your assertion is baseless and purely hypothetical.

3: Baylor changed to the color to "gold" and misled her because they are Baptist...? Sounds suspect at best and scandalous at worst. This contention should be dismissed unless you can proffer some evidence immediately.

4: If there are not records it's just legend... First, Baylor adopted and published her version of events. So legend or not, it's official. Second, there is the letter you reference and Baylor is not refuting it. In other words, it's more than legend, it's tradition.

Basically, a critical analysis leads to one conclusion, "gold" and "yellow" are to be viewed artistically, NOT literally to mean the metallic element on the periodic table. In fact, the dandelion is described as being "golden" yellow.

You have not looked at this with a critical eye; your motives betray your ability to be critical... and I quote "I want gold not mustard yellow."








Ok let's go through each one.

Prove she is a primary source. The burden is on you. The rule of thumb is that the source has to be proven reliable. We have nothing but a letter from her stating that she is the originator over 60 years (1897 to 1959) after it supposedly occurred. Also, the years on her story are interesting. She had to be at least a six year student. (I do not say this negatively. I took an extra year and a half on my masters due to getting married.) If it was first used in March 25th 1897, but it was probably 1896 when she saw the weeds. Dandelions appear in March, but the big blooms are in late April in Central Texas.



Even if they bloomed early, It would have been difficult to return from the trip, the committee make a decision, get admins. approval, and coordinate with the glee club by March 25, 1897. The letter itself says the colors were probably adopted in 1897.

1. You are right about not knowing and that long-term memory is usually the last to go. I made this point in light of no other evidence to her 60+ year old story. We don't know her mental state. I wouldn't throw this out just on this hypothetical, but we are assuming she is a good historian of the event 60+ years later if we accept her statement.

2. You are right it is completely hypothetical. I did not portray it as anything but hypothetical, but to state something as fact from one source with no other supporting evidence does not make it a trustworthy source. She did commit it to writing 60 years later which makes me more skeptical.

3. I say this as an active Baptist minister. There are plenty of times in which committees will make a soft suggestion to get their way. Let's call it Gold, instead of yellow, when they have no intention of it being yellow.

4. In a blog post they recounted the story. In their branding colors page they say it is a legend. You say it is legend when the people who are responsible for proper color branding at Baylor say it is legend. Also many legends can become tradition.

My whole point is that stating something is fact based off of one piece of evidence from a person who is the "hero" of the story is not good scholarship. This is compounded by the length of time from when it supposedly occurred to when she wrote the letter. I find it strange that there is no other supporting evidence.

What I do know is that golden yellow is not gold. Our Alma mater says gold. Our own website says that it is a legend. The story that has been published multiple times is based off of one letter with no other corroborating evidence. I am a person that believes sources have to be proven, not disproven, because this leads to bad scholarship and reporting.

It is like the people who say that the COVID-19 vaccines contained microchips that the government uses to track us. They offer "proof", but it is not reliable. I am not going to accept it at prima facie. I am going to use my critical mind to say this doesn't make sense when the government can track most of the population through their cell phones already. Why would the government care about putting trackers in us when we voluntarily choose to carry a tracker with us everywhere we go?

What I am saying is for this story to be accepted as fact you need to have more supporting evidence.

There is really only one point you are making, and that is the dandelion story is a legend and therefore you think metallic gold is the school color. But like the Big Lebowski said "Yeah, Well, you know, that's like uh, your opinion man."

It's really simple to decern what Baylor means when they use the word "Gold"… other than they told us the school color is Yellow/gold:

1: Baylor adopted the dandelion story to make clear to you that gold/yellow is the school's color.

2: 1930s looks like they were using green and yellow, not gold. "Photo courtesy of Baylor University Texas Collection."

3: 1940s Baylor's slime cap was green and yellow, not gold.

4: 1950s: Baylor's logo, Sailor Bear, was yellow, not gold.

5: 1990s-current: The freshmen wear yellow line jerseys, not gold, but Baylor calls them the GOLD line jersey…

6: 2000s: My acceptance letter/packet to Baylor was Green and Yellow… not gold.

7: Baylor's website was using yellow long before the "Baylor United Colors" were applied for branding purposes to Baylor's sports teams. This is important because it negates the argument that yellow was only used because gold was not possible or practical. (It's a weak point if made anyway, just as ND, UCLA, WF, W…)

The primary sources of Baylor's colors are all around you and have been for a long time. Football teams don't choose the school colors, they wear them… This is the exact reason why Baylor had to do the "color united" marketing.





1. Baylor's official branding page on the website says it is legend. It doesn't sound like they have officially adopted anything. Even if they did, there are other arguments to be had about why we have moved to our current colors.

2. Probably to save money and the ability to source gold paper was not easy. Ever heard of the Great Depression.

3. Again cost and availability, we were in a small war or just coming out of it.

4. Sailor Bear is not unique to Baylor

5. Again cost. It is not like Baylor was pumping money into the program.

6. I got stuff with yellow and I got stuff with gold. I think it shows Baylor's schizophrenic usage.

7. Again, it shows schizophrenic use of colors with no overall branding.


Now for my evidence

1. 1970's helmet



2. From the 30's through most of the 1960's Baylor used Old Gold shells which were gold, not yellow. Here are two sites that support this.

https://swchelmets.tripod.com/baylor.html

http://www.helmethut.com/College/Baylor/TXXXBU5757.html

I think that we have both made good arguments that shows Baylor has not had good regulations on its branding. Now that they are trying to make some, they are using a yellow that has not been used for most of Baylor's uniform history. It has been used in other ways though at Baylor. I guess my thoughts and those of many others is that if they are going to set branding guidelines let's use gold which is the official color, instead of using a yellow that many of us cringe at the usage of it.




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