why? that would put us back a decade. If they did that, the media would have a field day with it.MrGolfguy said:
Hoping the students start a "C-A-B" "C-A-B" "C-A-B" chant.
Briles at McLane
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Last: 54 sec ago by historian
I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
3,072 daysfredbear said:
Briles was running a dumpster fire of misconduct on his watch . He had to go. Even the president had to go. Denying that reality does not nake it untrue. Baylor paid undisclosed amounts to numerous victims that never made it to criminal trials. Briles was about one thing, winning. At all costs, including ignoring sexual abuse.
8 years
4 months
27 days
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
Bear2014 said:why? that would put us back a decade. If they did that, the media would have a field day with it.MrGolfguy said:
Hoping the students start a "C-A-B" "C-A-B" "C-A-B" chant.
If that puts us back to the days of winning 10 football games a year!!! Then I hope it happens and we could do what we should have done 10 years ago and tell the media to go _ _ _ _ themselves!
Current students were elementary and middle school when Briles coached here. Doubt they will be chanting anything.MrGolfguy said:
Hoping the students start a "C-A-B" "C-A-B" "C-A-B" chant.
I'm not saying it will happen, but one of the BMD's could invite him to the game to sit in their box. If Drayton McLane did that it might carry some weight. But if he is there, hd should be on the field with the players. To be honest, so should Kendal & Kaz, although that is much less likely. It could be presented as a moment of healing and Christian sportsmanship. If Aranda were on board it could have a positive impact. Let bygones be bygones and move forward.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Actually your 100% confidence is misplaced. Ian testified in federal court about a year ago that the BOR chair approached him and directed him to set Briles up to take the fall for the campus sexual assault issue. Ian refused and his resignation was requested along with being told that the BOR will now set Briles up to take the fall and that Ian ended his own tenure here for nothing. Unfortunately some of our former players on the BOR were in on the plan.BU82EX said:
"The reason we botched our response, while other schools handled theirs better, is not because we were first. It's because we are Baylor. Our BOR is too large, full of 36 volunteers who are worried about their own image and exposure, and Baylor historically cares more about appearance than it does the underlying facts. (E.g. we reported zero sexual assaults for some years leading up to this). We also had longstanding internal division that cracked open under the pressure. Our problem is not the order in which we drew the bad hand; it is our general makeup and how we played the hand."
THIS!
I am 100% confident that the last thing the BOR wanted to do was fire CAB and start over in football or make him a scapegoat. However, because we are Baylor and because we hold to a mission statement unlike the other 127 FBS schools, we tend to run hard and fast from controversy. I truly believe that had the Hamilton report been in writing and publicized, it would have been waaay worse for Baylor and CAB. It's a painful part of our past and no amount of second guessing or playing the blame game will change it.
PartyBear said:Actually your 100% confidence is misplaced. Ian testified in federal court about a year ago that the BOR chair approached him and directed him to set Briles up to take the fall for the campus sexual assault issue. Ian refused and his resignation was requested along with being told that the BOR will now set Briles up to take the fall and that Ian ended his own tenure here for nothing. Unfortunately some of our former players on the BOR were in on the plan.BU82EX said:
"The reason we botched our response, while other schools handled theirs better, is not because we were first. It's because we are Baylor. Our BOR is too large, full of 36 volunteers who are worried about their own image and exposure, and Baylor historically cares more about appearance than it does the underlying facts. (E.g. we reported zero sexual assaults for some years leading up to this). We also had longstanding internal division that cracked open under the pressure. Our problem is not the order in which we drew the bad hand; it is our general makeup and how we played the hand."
THIS!
I am 100% confident that the last thing the BOR wanted to do was fire CAB and start over in football or make him a scapegoat. However, because we are Baylor and because we hold to a mission statement unlike the other 127 FBS schools, we tend to run hard and fast from controversy. I truly believe that had the Hamilton report been in writing and publicized, it would have been waaay worse for Baylor and CAB. It's a painful part of our past and no amount of second guessing or playing the blame game will change it.
The Regents knew how bad they and the administration had screwed up for decades (sexual assault was rampant all over campus….the campus police situation was of particular concern as far as legal liability)
They thought the school was about to be ruined forever…..so they took the chance to switch the blame to the football team
As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
blackie said:Would agree.drahthaar said:
It's long past time everybody got over themselves over Art and tried some grace and healing for a change. Baylor should take the lead in this.
Back on BaylorFans I was highly critical of the BOR, still am. Several here could vouch for that. I was very happy to have CAB as our coach. I still have an autographed football on my shelf.
However, neither can I give CAB a complete pass on why what happened happened. Just like the captain of a ship who losses his command because some undisciplined and not fully trained seaman recruit on board throws a wrench into a turbine, as a head coach, you have got to be in control of your team. Yes, you delegate authority, but you ultimately are responsible for the whole shebang. You've got to have the things in place such that underlings understand and have the integrity to call out what they know is wrong and take action. He didn't. He delegated, but he didn't follow-up to the degree necessary. You can't run a program with a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. Baylor, its fans, its players, Briles and everyone else paid for that lack of accountability.
But I also truly believe that had Baylor not been the first major program for this widespread problem to surface, Baylor and Briles would have ridden it out. Look at all the other examples of teams that later had situations that were just as bad or worse but their administrations saw and learned from how Baylor handled it and deemed that such drastic actions were not required to address a problem that was and still is rampant. But we were the first. Panic set in. We were the only ones that had the problem or so we were told. We had no past history from which to draw guidance or comparison.
I don't think Briles would have remained coach too much longer regardless. He had too much wanderlust in him and Baylor was still not thought of as being all that big a fish in the pond. The biggest showcasing of wanderlust was how he strung us along during the Fiesta Bowl. I have no doubt he wanted to go to UT, but UT just didn't play it the way he wanted it played. The distraction resulted in the embarrassment in Tempe.
So, I would have invited him (perhaps he was, for all I know). Give him applause (not shouts of "CAB") along with the rest of the team, and leave it at that.
Mistakes were made by all. The only people in the whole situation that I feel were the innocent parties (other than the true victims) were us fans who had no reason to believe that the people running the university and its programs were not mature enough to understand that Baylor students were no better or worse than students at other universities and there was no reason to think that society's problems did not exist in Waco, And, as a result, did not run all university programs, athletic and academic, to standards that we would naturally expect and assumed to be followed. Trying to cover them up or ignore them cost us all dearly.
I only post this because it was brought up. I don't think I have mentioned CAB and the whole sorry mess for years and don't care to beyond this point.
This. No one in the whole mess was clean.
ABC BEAR said:As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
Yeah, that was a metaphor. It's OK.
PartyBear said:Actually your 100% confidence is misplaced. Ian testified in federal court about a year ago that the BOR chair approached him and directed him to set Briles up to take the fall for the campus sexual assault issue. Ian refused and his resignation was requested along with being told that the BOR will now set Briles up to take the fall and that Ian ended his own tenure here for nothing. Unfortunately some of our former players on the BOR were in on the plan.BU82EX said:
"The reason we botched our response, while other schools handled theirs better, is not because we were first. It's because we are Baylor. Our BOR is too large, full of 36 volunteers who are worried about their own image and exposure, and Baylor historically cares more about appearance than it does the underlying facts. (E.g. we reported zero sexual assaults for some years leading up to this). We also had longstanding internal division that cracked open under the pressure. Our problem is not the order in which we drew the bad hand; it is our general makeup and how we played the hand."
THIS!
I am 100% confident that the last thing the BOR wanted to do was fire CAB and start over in football or make him a scapegoat. However, because we are Baylor and because we hold to a mission statement unlike the other 127 FBS schools, we tend to run hard and fast from controversy. I truly believe that had the Hamilton report been in writing and publicized, it would have been waaay worse for Baylor and CAB. It's a painful part of our past and no amount of second guessing or playing the blame game will change it.
Truth
blackie said:Would agree.drahthaar said:
It's long past time everybody got over themselves over Art and tried some grace and healing for a change. Baylor should take the lead in this.
Back on BaylorFans I was highly critical of the BOR, still am. Several here could vouch for that. I was very happy to have CAB as our coach. I still have an autographed football on my shelf.
However, neither can I give CAB a complete pass on why what happened happened. Just like the captain of a ship who losses his command because some undisciplined and not fully trained seaman recruit on board throws a wrench into a turbine, as a head coach, you have got to be in control of your team. Yes, you delegate authority, but you ultimately are responsible for the whole shebang. You've got to have the things in place such that underlings understand and have the integrity to call out what they know is wrong and take action. He didn't. He delegated, but he didn't follow-up to the degree necessary. You can't run a program with a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. Baylor, its fans, its players, Briles and everyone else paid for that lack of accountability.
But I also truly believe that had Baylor not been the first major program for this widespread problem to surface, Baylor and Briles would have ridden it out. Look at all the other examples of teams that later had situations that were just as bad or worse but their administrations saw and learned from how Baylor handled it and deemed that such drastic actions were not required to address a problem that was and still is rampant. But we were the first. Panic set in. We were the only ones that had the problem or so we were told. We had no past history from which to draw guidance or comparison.
I don't think Briles would have remained coach too much longer regardless. He had too much wanderlust in him and Baylor was still not thought of as being all that big a fish in the pond. The biggest showcasing of wanderlust was how he strung us along during the Fiesta Bowl. I have no doubt he wanted to go to UT, but UT just didn't play it the way he wanted it played. The distraction resulted in the embarrassment in Tempe.
So, I would have invited him (perhaps he was, for all I know). Give him applause (not shouts of "CAB") along with the rest of the team, and leave it at that.
Mistakes were made by all. The only people in the whole situation that I feel were the innocent parties (other than the true victims) were us fans who had no reason to believe that the people running the university and its programs were not mature enough to understand that Baylor students were no better or worse than students at other universities and there was no reason to think that society's problems did not exist in Waco, And, as a result, did not run all university programs, athletic and academic, to standards that we would naturally expect and assumed to be followed. Trying to cover them up or ignore them cost us all dearly.
I only post this because it was brought up. I don't think I have mentioned CAB and the whole sorry mess for years and don't care to beyond this point.
4 edits apparently weren't enough. Keep trying.
Drop the p and find one that wants to retire.Robert Wilson said:ABC BEAR said:As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
Yeah, that was a metaphor. It's OK.
drahthaar said:
It's long past time everybody got over themselves over Art and tried some grace and healing for a change. Baylor should take the lead in this.
Baylor… lead in this? Well, they're BAPTIST, so there's that. Just a big 'ole Baptist church.
Robert Wilson said:ABC BEAR said:As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
Yeah, that was a metaphor. It's OK.
Yes, and it made me laugh and shake my head.
Nothing compared to Hosea the prophet.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Robert Wilson said:ABC BEAR said:As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
Yeah, that was a metaphor. It's OK.
I think his post was metaphor too
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Ah, yes, I could see that. I'm kinda slow.historian said:Robert Wilson said:ABC BEAR said:As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
Yeah, that was a metaphor. It's OK.
I think his post was metaphor too
There's Biblical precedent for that, but historian beat me to it.ABC BEAR said:Drop the p and find one that wants to retire.Robert Wilson said:ABC BEAR said:As I see it, the problem isn't you, so that's good. Keep wearing that Baylor shirt and eventually someone with class will take a liking to you.Robert Wilson said:I was married to a smoking hot 10 who was great in the sack and made 7 figures a year. Then I looked down and saw the Baylor on my shirt, realized the whole thing made me feel inadequate, so I divorced her, gave her all my money, and married a portly 6 who was destined to be unfaithful.ABC BEAR said:Good move. A wife you can find just about anywhere, but a coach who wins 10 games a year is hard to find.guadalupeoso said:
If only Art would show up. Every day, as I meditate upon my Kim Mulkey bobblehead (signed by Arthur Briles) I try to manifest good vibes and healing towards Art. If only he could be healed, then I would truly be healed. I left my wife over a dispute about Art Briles, and I've never looked back. She couldn't appreciate what kind of a man he was and what he has done for my life. But the liberal media and commies that run our blessed university can't allow his righteousness on campus, despite my effervescent prayers and vibes that I send towards Briles each day.
Hopefully you have found a good woman who is a blessing in your life.
Yeah, that was a metaphor. It's OK.
It's only been 3,073 days!drahthaar said:
It's long past time everybody got over themselves over Art and tried some grace and healing for a change. Baylor should take the lead in this.
The gnashing of teeth has left so many on here relegated to eating baby food.
The truly (I mean this with all sincerity) sad part is that a number of folks could see the implosion coming a few years earlier. Ian and Ken, more than any regent, failed Baylor miserably by not reeling Art and his "staff" in early and often.
A pre-season counseling session and a post-season wrap-up/grading session along with an assigned chaperone year round might have saved us the supreme embarrassment.
Winning, after so many years of losing, has a way of causing even the most noble to put on blinders.
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
BU82EX said:
I truly believe that had the Hamilton report been in writing and publicized, it would have been waaay worse for Baylor and CAB. It's a painful part of our past and no amount of second guessing or playing the blame game will change it.
Well we can't prove a negative
It might or might not have been worse for Baylor as an institution (at this point everyone knows we had a massive problem across campus with sexual assault and that the leadership failed to address that problem for decades)
It probably would not have been worse for Briles considering he is seen by the Media and general public as a rape cover up artist and the guy can't even coach in an advisory role in Canada.
What we can say is that if Baylor leadership really wanted to have been honest with the public and its alumni it would have published the report it paid for.......because it did not....people will always wonder what the Regents were hiding
We kinda know. Baylor selectively released certain findings and recommendations, and then was found by Judge Pittman to have waived any privilege associated with the report (duh). Presumably, they had to hand over more materials. I don't think there was a comprehensive report, for the exact reason they wanted to selectively use it, but it blew back on them.Redbrickbear said:BU82EX said:
I truly believe that had the Hamilton report been in writing and publicized, it would have been waaay worse for Baylor and CAB. It's a painful part of our past and no amount of second guessing or playing the blame game will change it.
Well we can't prove a negative
It might or might not have been worse for Baylor as an institution (at this point everyone knows we had a massive problem across campus with sexual assault and that the leadership failed to address that problem for decades)
It probably would not have been worse for Briles considering he is seen by the Media and general public as a rape cover up artist and the guy can't even coach in an advisory role in Canada.
What we can say is that if Baylor leadership really wanted to have been honest with the public and its alumni it would have published the report it paid for.......because it did not....people will always wonder what the Regents were hiding
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/11/baylor-ordered-turn-over-documents-pepper-hamilton-report/
Unlike most here, I like to get my grammar and spelling correct. Has nothing to do with the content of the post. Thanks for adding something substantive to the discussion.DAC said:blackie said:Would agree.drahthaar said:
It's long past time everybody got over themselves over Art and tried some grace and healing for a change. Baylor should take the lead in this.
Back on BaylorFans I was highly critical of the BOR, still am. Several here could vouch for that. I was very happy to have CAB as our coach. I still have an autographed football on my shelf.
However, neither can I give CAB a complete pass on why what happened happened. Just like the captain of a ship who losses his command because some undisciplined and not fully trained seaman recruit on board throws a wrench into a turbine, as a head coach, you have got to be in control of your team. Yes, you delegate authority, but you ultimately are responsible for the whole shebang. You've got to have the things in place such that underlings understand and have the integrity to call out what they know is wrong and take action. He didn't. He delegated, but he didn't follow-up to the degree necessary. You can't run a program with a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. Baylor, its fans, its players, Briles and everyone else paid for that lack of accountability.
But I also truly believe that had Baylor not been the first major program for this widespread problem to surface, Baylor and Briles would have ridden it out. Look at all the other examples of teams that later had situations that were just as bad or worse but their administrations saw and learned from how Baylor handled it and deemed that such drastic actions were not required to address a problem that was and still is rampant. But we were the first. Panic set in. We were the only ones that had the problem or so we were told. We had no past history from which to draw guidance or comparison.
I don't think Briles would have remained coach too much longer regardless. He had too much wanderlust in him and Baylor was still not thought of as being all that big a fish in the pond. The biggest showcasing of wanderlust was how he strung us along during the Fiesta Bowl. I have no doubt he wanted to go to UT, but UT just didn't play it the way he wanted it played. The distraction resulted in the embarrassment in Tempe.
So, I would have invited him (perhaps he was, for all I know). Give him applause (not shouts of "CAB") along with the rest of the team, and leave it at that.
Mistakes were made by all. The only people in the whole situation that I feel were the innocent parties (other than the true victims) were us fans who had no reason to believe that the people running the university and its programs were not mature enough to understand that Baylor students were no better or worse than students at other universities and there was no reason to think that society's problems did not exist in Waco, And, as a result, did not run all university programs, athletic and academic, to standards that we would naturally expect and assumed to be followed. Trying to cover them up or ignore them cost us all dearly.
I only post this because it was brought up. I don't think I have mentioned CAB and the whole sorry mess for years and don't care to beyond this point.
4 edits apparently weren't enough. Keep trying.
Women were sexually assaulted. I can't forgive a coach for allowing it to happen or ignoring it or turning a blind eye to it. So, no Briles please. We were called rapists at every turn. Don't bring that back that shame.
Waco1947 ,la
fredbear said:
Briles was running a dumpster fire of misconduct on his watch . He had to go. Even the president had to go. Denying that reality does not nake it untrue. Baylor paid undisclosed amounts to numerous victims that never made it to criminal trials. Briles was about one thing, winning. At all costs, including ignoring sexual abuse.
It is more accurate to say he was about 1 thing, football. His greatest sins were giving players a second chance. It simply was not his job to investigate sexual assault claims. Do you really think he was equipped to do so? He rightly referred these matters over to the police or University.
He did display a level of apathy towards sexual assault, but I think he was probably generally fed up with all the misconduct college kids get involved in. To make his part in the scandal any more than that is ridiculous. He stuck to his job, and had the University done its job, the scandal would not have happened. The scandal is the University's, and he simply got scapegoated by an inept BOR who were incompetent. In their efforts to build expensive buildings and up tuition, they neglected to address student safety. So did Starr. It was easiest to blame the football coach who brought in second chance players. As simple as that.
That's ok. I'm usually pretty slow too. I had the advantage of reading other posts too.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Porteroso said:fredbear said:
Briles was running a dumpster fire of misconduct on his watch . He had to go. Even the president had to go. Denying that reality does not nake it untrue. Baylor paid undisclosed amounts to numerous victims that never made it to criminal trials. Briles was about one thing, winning. At all costs, including ignoring sexual abuse.
It is more accurate to say he was about 1 thing, football. His greatest sins were giving players a second chance. It simply was not his job to investigate sexual assault claims. Do you really think he was equipped to do so? He rightly referred these matters over to the police or University.
He did display a level of apathy towards sexual assault, but I think he was probably generally fed up with all the misconduct college kids get involved in. To make his part in the scandal any more than that is ridiculous. He stuck to his job, and had the University done its job, the scandal would not have happened. The scandal is the University's, and he simply got scapegoated by an inept BOR who were incompetent. In their efforts to build expensive buildings and up tuition, they neglected to address student safety. So did Starr. It was easiest to blame the football coach who brought in second chance players. As simple as that.
It was a fake scandal. Instead of 50 players raping girls all the time there were 2, and one was sentenced to only 6 months. So far as I know Tevin Elliot is still in prison. Shawn Oakman was acquitted. That's it. It's still too much but likely no different than any other major football program. In recent years, both UT & A&M have had their problems but those were handled differently and did not lead to such a huge disaster. And those are just the examples in state off the top of my head.
One rape is too many but it was mistily a media hit job for a variety of reasons but mainly because that's what the fascist propagandists do.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Porteroso said:fredbear said:
Briles was running a dumpster fire of misconduct on his watch . He had to go. Even the president had to go. Denying that reality does not nake it untrue. Baylor paid undisclosed amounts to numerous victims that never made it to criminal trials. Briles was about one thing, winning. At all costs, including ignoring sexual abuse.
had the University done its job, the scandal would not have happened. The scandal is the University's, and he simply got scapegoated by an inept BOR who were incompetent. In their efforts to build expensive buildings and up tuition, they neglected to address student safety. So did Starr. It was easiest to blame the football coach who brought in second chance players. As simple as that.
Yep....absolutely
historian said:Porteroso said:fredbear said:
Briles was running a dumpster fire of misconduct on his watch . He had to go. Even the president had to go. Denying that reality does not nake it untrue. Baylor paid undisclosed amounts to numerous victims that never made it to criminal trials. Briles was about one thing, winning. At all costs, including ignoring sexual abuse.
It is more accurate to say he was about 1 thing, football. His greatest sins were giving players a second chance. It simply was not his job to investigate sexual assault claims. Do you really think he was equipped to do so? He rightly referred these matters over to the police or University.
He did display a level of apathy towards sexual assault, but I think he was probably generally fed up with all the misconduct college kids get involved in. To make his part in the scandal any more than that is ridiculous. He stuck to his job, and had the University done its job, the scandal would not have happened. The scandal is the University's, and he simply got scapegoated by an inept BOR who were incompetent. In their efforts to build expensive buildings and up tuition, they neglected to address student safety. So did Starr. It was easiest to blame the football coach who brought in second chance players. As simple as that.
Instead of 50 players raping girls all the time there were 2, and one was sentenced to only 6 months. So far as I know Tevin Elliot is still in prison. Shawn Oakman was acquitted. That's it. It's still too much but likely no different than any other major football program. In recent years, both UT & A&M have had their problems but those were handled differently and did not lead to such a huge disaster. And those are just the examples in state off the top of my head.
Another yep....absolutely
Baylor was held to account for crimes in a way by the Media that they did not hold ut, aggy, LSU, OU, Bama, etc.
I do the same thing, especially when I'm posting from my phone. My posts have multiple edits more often than not, and it's never to change the substance of a post.blackie said:Unlike most here, I like to get my grammar and spelling correct. Has nothing to do with the content of the post. Thanks for adding something substantive to the discussion.DAC said:blackie said:Would agree.drahthaar said:
It's long past time everybody got over themselves over Art and tried some grace and healing for a change. Baylor should take the lead in this.
Back on BaylorFans I was highly critical of the BOR, still am. Several here could vouch for that. I was very happy to have CAB as our coach. I still have an autographed football on my shelf.
However, neither can I give CAB a complete pass on why what happened happened. Just like the captain of a ship who losses his command because some undisciplined and not fully trained seaman recruit on board throws a wrench into a turbine, as a head coach, you have got to be in control of your team. Yes, you delegate authority, but you ultimately are responsible for the whole shebang. You've got to have the things in place such that underlings understand and have the integrity to call out what they know is wrong and take action. He didn't. He delegated, but he didn't follow-up to the degree necessary. You can't run a program with a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. Baylor, its fans, its players, Briles and everyone else paid for that lack of accountability.
But I also truly believe that had Baylor not been the first major program for this widespread problem to surface, Baylor and Briles would have ridden it out. Look at all the other examples of teams that later had situations that were just as bad or worse but their administrations saw and learned from how Baylor handled it and deemed that such drastic actions were not required to address a problem that was and still is rampant. But we were the first. Panic set in. We were the only ones that had the problem or so we were told. We had no past history from which to draw guidance or comparison.
I don't think Briles would have remained coach too much longer regardless. He had too much wanderlust in him and Baylor was still not thought of as being all that big a fish in the pond. The biggest showcasing of wanderlust was how he strung us along during the Fiesta Bowl. I have no doubt he wanted to go to UT, but UT just didn't play it the way he wanted it played. The distraction resulted in the embarrassment in Tempe.
So, I would have invited him (perhaps he was, for all I know). Give him applause (not shouts of "CAB") along with the rest of the team, and leave it at that.
Mistakes were made by all. The only people in the whole situation that I feel were the innocent parties (other than the true victims) were us fans who had no reason to believe that the people running the university and its programs were not mature enough to understand that Baylor students were no better or worse than students at other universities and there was no reason to think that society's problems did not exist in Waco, And, as a result, did not run all university programs, athletic and academic, to standards that we would naturally expect and assumed to be followed. Trying to cover them up or ignore them cost us all dearly.
I only post this because it was brought up. I don't think I have mentioned CAB and the whole sorry mess for years and don't care to beyond this point.
4 edits apparently weren't enough. Keep trying.
We never saw any evidence that he had apathy towards sexual assault. There was one true monster rapist who ended up on Baylor's football team - Tevin Elliot. We recruited him straight out of high school, and there were no warning signs. When he got caught, he was removed from the team and never played agtain.Porteroso said:fredbear said:
Briles was running a dumpster fire of misconduct on his watch . He had to go. Even the president had to go. Denying that reality does not nake it untrue. Baylor paid undisclosed amounts to numerous victims that never made it to criminal trials. Briles was about one thing, winning. At all costs, including ignoring sexual abuse.
It is more accurate to say he was about 1 thing, football. His greatest sins were giving players a second chance. It simply was not his job to investigate sexual assault claims. Do you really think he was equipped to do so? He rightly referred these matters over to the police or University.
He did display a level of apathy towards sexual assault, but I think he was probably generally fed up with all the misconduct college kids get involved in. To make his part in the scandal any more than that is ridiculous. He stuck to his job, and had the University done its job, the scandal would not have happened. The scandal is the University's, and he simply got scapegoated by an inept BOR who were incompetent. In their efforts to build expensive buildings and up tuition, they neglected to address student safety. So did Starr. It was easiest to blame the football coach who brought in second chance players. As simple as that.
The whole Sam U deal was a he said /she said date rape allegation, in which he was convicted but the jury only gave him 180 days (which was a compromise verdict). That thing then got overturned back and forth I can't remember how many times. It was the kind of thing that, unfortunately, happens all the time in college when people are drinking too much. He never played a down for Baylor, and his transfer records from Boise St were, let's just say, unenlightening. (and that's a compliance issue, primarily, anyway)
Our BOR used texts showing ambivalence towards pot use or drinking or fighting, and showed Starr and Briles giving Elliot a second chance after an academic issue (hardly rape) in order to broad brush Briles as covering up sexual assault. It was dishonest, misleading, and ultimately harmful to Baylor and many other Baylor constituents (fiduciary duties be damned, I suppose).
The Sam U conviction was overturned twice and reinstated twice. So far as I know, it's still on his record.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
Yes, they were. Throughout the Baylor space. Can you forgive administrators across that space for allowing it to happen, not providing related stats over a lengthy time frame, and scapegoating a single program?Waco1947 said:
Women were sexually assaulted. I can't forgive a coach for allowing it to happen or ignoring it or turning a blind eye to it. So, no Briles please. We were called rapists at every turn. Don't bring that back that shame.
Your bilge pump is working well today.Waco1947 said:
Women were sexually assaulted. I can't forgive a coach for allowing it to happen or ignoring it or turning a blind eye to it. So, no Briles please. We were called rapists at every turn. Don't bring that back that shame.
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