Tevin Elliot played in 2011. I remember his name being called. I also remember one game in which he had back to back 15 yard penalties forcing Bennett to pull him out of the game. Don't ask me which one, but I'm pretty sure we ended up winning it anyway.
Defending CAB
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Last: 1 mo ago by Robert Wilson
There's a lot of taking things out of context going around these days.JP1037 said:fredbear said:
We have been over this territory countless times. Cab had an out of control culture where winning was above all else, including the ethical treatment of women. His own text messages condemn him. An independent law firm examined the evidence of the FB program and presented a report to the Regents. None of them wanted to upend a successful program. NONE. But the evidence of an out of control culture that demeaned women was so overwhelming they had no choice. Don't be fooled by the number of criminal convictions, The civil settlements are behemoth. No other school has ever hired him because his lack of controls makes him untouchable. Think of all the fallen football coaches who have been rehabbed, but not Briles. The minute a school makes an offer, the public outcry is overwhelming. The scandal was so big the AD and President went down as well.
Feel free to form your own opinion on several facts of the case. I've examined the facts at length and found CAB to be without question the scape goat.
But using "his own texts" argument is nonsense. Those texts were selectively presented without full context. For 90%+ of people who text often if you give me full access to your phone I could make you out to be a very bad person by taking your texts and using just portions out of context. Baylor BOR hit pr firm did a number to save the ass of some "bad dudes" on the BOR who paid then well with Baylor money to do it. I pray God holds these men and women accountable.
We have been over this so many times it is exhausting. At this point I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changed. Thee will be on here in a little bit with the numbers count. I am going to outline why I think Briles was scapegoated one more time:
1. It was a university wide problem.
A. Patty Crawford, the Title IX coordinator, who was hired to fix the problems said this.
B. The attorney for most of the Jane Doe lawsuits, Dunham, stated that majority of the lawsuits were not connected to the athletics program.
C. Baylor did not have a Title IX office and they reported single digit to no sexual assaults each year for years. They also were more concerned about female students drinking alcohol than being sexually assaulted
2. Why I think he was scapegoated.
A. Without a Title IX office to give proper training or exist to report things to who was Briles supposed to report it to besides his superiors and encourage the victims to go to the police. The text messages about the police can be easily interpreted this way.
B. Regan Ramsower was the admin for the police and the office that was supposed to be handling these cases. He did not get fired but promoted even though he was reporting bogus numbers about SA that anyone with any common sense would say were wrong. I mean does anyone think that any university of any size has that few rapes much less one the size of Baylor. The DMN also wondered why he kept his job when Baylor Police reports went missing and he oversaw the police. https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2016/11/02/the-most-concerning-revelations-out-of-60-minutes-sports-baylor-special/?outputType=amp
C. In sworn testimony, several of the same board members that ran Briles into the ground in the press testified that he did not break any laws or policies to their knowledge.
D. Baylor University's general council wrote a letter that stated that to the best of his knowledge Briles did not break any laws or Baylor policies.
E. In the only lawsuit to go to trial, the case against Briles was dismissed, but Baylor was found guilty.
1. It was a university wide problem.
A. Patty Crawford, the Title IX coordinator, who was hired to fix the problems said this.
B. The attorney for most of the Jane Doe lawsuits, Dunham, stated that majority of the lawsuits were not connected to the athletics program.
C. Baylor did not have a Title IX office and they reported single digit to no sexual assaults each year for years. They also were more concerned about female students drinking alcohol than being sexually assaulted
2. Why I think he was scapegoated.
A. Without a Title IX office to give proper training or exist to report things to who was Briles supposed to report it to besides his superiors and encourage the victims to go to the police. The text messages about the police can be easily interpreted this way.
B. Regan Ramsower was the admin for the police and the office that was supposed to be handling these cases. He did not get fired but promoted even though he was reporting bogus numbers about SA that anyone with any common sense would say were wrong. I mean does anyone think that any university of any size has that few rapes much less one the size of Baylor. The DMN also wondered why he kept his job when Baylor Police reports went missing and he oversaw the police. https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2016/11/02/the-most-concerning-revelations-out-of-60-minutes-sports-baylor-special/?outputType=amp
C. In sworn testimony, several of the same board members that ran Briles into the ground in the press testified that he did not break any laws or policies to their knowledge.
D. Baylor University's general council wrote a letter that stated that to the best of his knowledge Briles did not break any laws or Baylor policies.
E. In the only lawsuit to go to trial, the case against Briles was dismissed, but Baylor was found guilty.
Yep, CAB was so innocent he was hired immediately by another team and BU has egg on their face. NOT. He created a dumpster fire culture, and his own texts show his knowledge and neglect. Had to go. This is way deeper than his breaking laws. It is the lawlessness he permitted on his watch. Yes. We have been over this so many times, Deny history if you will. But he was fired as was everyone above him. While the AD was picked up. CAB was and is untouchable. That is what happened. Simple.
You're certainly a Baylor guy. I'll give you that.
ursamajor said:
The Briles defenses are so extreme.
Was he worse than lots of other coaches across the country? Maybe not.
Did the BOR handle PR very poorly throughout that process? Yes.
Had Starr and the admin failed in setting up the best support structures? Obviously.
Were many of the players good people and good citizens? Surely.
But does that mean Briles didn't also set up a program with no control, shielded from oversight, willing to bring in players with legal and behavioral red flags, that contained two convicted of sexual assault and at least a few others who mistreated women? No it doesn't.
It's not always virtue signaling and PR. Sometimes people really are trying to make things better in the world.
For the sake of argument, let's say Briles was willing to take a chance on certain recruits (even just on academics). Even if that is the case, why is that all on him? The school let these people in. Shouldn't there be some responsibility on Baylor to vet all students… Including football players? How can 100% of The blame for a questionable admissions decision be placed on the football coach? If Baylor is set up that way, then that is Baylor's problem. Briles was recruiting the same players everybody else was. He was clearly a scapegoat.
GruntTuff said:Briles was hired as a football coach. He was like 99% of the football coaches at his level during his time as a head coach. Is that a defense for him not being both a head coach and a future thinking Title IX believing guy? Of course not, but that was not his job. His job was to win and he did that better than any coach in Baylor's history.ursamajor said:
The Briles defenses are so extreme.
Was he worse than lots of other coaches across the country? Maybe not.
Did the BOR handle PR very poorly throughout that process? Yes.
Had Starr and the admin failed in setting up the best support structures? Obviously.
Were many of the players good people and good citizens? Surely.
But does that mean Briles didn't also set up a program with no control, shielded from oversight, willing to bring in players with legal and behavioral red flags, that contained two convicted of sexual assault and at least a few others who mistreated women? No it doesn't.
It's not always virtue signaling and PR. Sometimes people really are trying to make things better in the world.
The job of others was to set policy, adhere to law and lead the ENTIRE campus to be better in the area that the entire campus had problems.
Here's the difference, and if you can't get this, then my writing is a waste of time.
The other 99% of head coaches either had administrations that adhered to the law and set up procedures (which Briles would have happily followed) OR (and this is big) when they and the coaches failed, they circled the wagons.
Baylor elected to do it different than everyone else. They (the really guilty ones) panicked and decided that their careers and heritages were in doubt, and they elected to find a scapegoat. Briles was the easy target.
As I said in a prior post (and do a simple Google search if you don't believe me) danged near EVERY major college program in the years Briles was Baylor's head coach was equal or worse than Baylor in terms of numbers of assaults, etc. Those programs elected to circle the wagons.
They also decided to either strengthen their existing controls, or put them in place when they observed Baylor's stupidity.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink.
Bingo
The 34 voting members of the Board in 2016 (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/16231776/these-34-voting-members-baylor-board-regents) :BluesBear said:Is there a list of those Board members who were involved in these decisions?muddybrazos said:I think Sam U was actually proven not guilty after appeal. Oakman got his NFL career ruined by false accusations. Honestly, our board did more damage than anyone and its pathetic. To be fair, I did hear some stories about our team during that time but they didnt involve women. If they were true we had some gangsta Houston dudes that were making their presence felt amongst local Waco thugs.historian said:
"dozens of rapes"? That was the accusation at the time but it was never proven. Only two were proven in a court of law: Tevin Elliot is still in prison and Sam U served his time long ago. Everything else is unjustified assumption, probably based upon lies.
Jay Allison: A three-year football letterman and member of Grant Teaff's 1974 Southwest Conference championship team, Allison and his wife, Jenny, are among Baylor's biggest athletics donors. The football team's indoor practice facility is named in their honor, and they also have endowed football scholarships and helped finance skyboxes at the baseball stadium and the school's basketball hall of fame. Allison is chairman, president and CEO of Comstock Resources, an oil and gas exploration company with more than $2.4 billion in assets. He has a bachelor's degree in accounting, a master's degree and a law degree from Baylor.
Joel T. Allison: A 1970 graduate of Baylor, Allison is the CEO of Dallas-based Baylor Scott & White Health, the largest not-for-profit health system in Texas. According to the company's tax records, he received more than $3 million in compensation in 2014. He has bachelor's degrees in journalism and religion from Baylor.
Robert E. Beauchamp: He is the president and CEO of Houston-based BMC Software, one of the world's largest computer software companies. Forbes listed him among the country's highest-paid CEOs with annual compensation of more than $19.8 million in 2012. In 2013, he and his wife, Laura, donated $3 million to Baylor toward construction of the Beauchamp Athletic Nutrition Center for student-athlete wellness.
Linda Jean Brian: Brian, a former director of counseling for the Amarillo (Texas) Independent School District, was appointed to the board by the Baptist General Convention of Texas in 2009. She earned a bachelor's degree from Baylor in 1969.
Former Baylor athlete Mark Hurd, currently co-CEO of Oracle, is one of the wealthiest members of Baylor's board. John G. Mabanglo/EPA
Ken Carlile: A former dentist, Carlile is co-owner of The Carlile Companies and Camterra Resources Inc., which are oil and gas companies. The atrium of Baylor's Sciences Building is named in honor of Carlile and his wife, Celia. He has a bachelor's degree, a doctorate in dental surgery and a doctorate in geology from Baylor.
Daniel Chapman: Chapman is one of three new regents who were appointed by the Baylor Alumni Association. He is a commercial banker and chairman of the board of First Private Bank of Texas in Dallas. He has a bachelor's degree and an MBA from Baylor.
Jerry Clements: She is the chair of Locke Lord, a Texas-based global law firm with offices in 23 cities around the world. In 2015, the Baylor Law Alumni Association named her Baylor Lawyer of the Year, the first time in 53 years a woman received the honor. She has a law degree from Baylor.
Jennifer Walker Elrod: A graduate of Baylor and Harvard Law School, Elrod was nominated by President George W. Bush in 2007 to be a federal judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit in New Orleans. Prior to her confirmation, she was twice elected judge of the 190th District Court of Harris County, Texas.
Wayne Fisher: A new regent, who was elected by the Baylor Alumni Association, Fisher is a trial lawyer in Houston and past president of the State Bar of Texas. In 2004, he defended Baylor in a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the father of Patrick Dennehy, a Bears basketball player who was murdered by his teammate in 2003. Fisher has a law degree from Baylor.
Shelley Giglio: She is the pastor of Passion City Church in Atlanta and co-founder of the Passion Movement, a Christian-based organization that hosts conferences for college-aged people around the world. She is also chief strategist, director of label operations and artist management for sixstepsrecords, an Atlanta-based record label. She has a bachelor's in business administration from Baylor.
James Cary Gray: Gray is president and managing partner of Gray Reed & McGraw, a Houston-based law firm. He also has a bachelor's degree in accounting and a law degree from Baylor.
David Harper: A graduate of Baylor and Harvard Law School, Harper is a partner at Haynes and Boone, an international corporate law firm with offices in Dallas.
Larry Heard: Heard is the president and CEO of Transwestern Development Company, a Houston-based commercial real estate company. His son, John, was a walk-on basketball player at Baylor. Larry received a bachelor's degree in finance from Baylor.
Milton Hixson: A 1972 Baylor graduate, Hixson founded Financial Management Professionals, a high-wealth planning company in Austin, Texas. Hixson was selected for the board by the Baptist General Convention of Texas He has a bachelor's degree in business administration from Baylor.
Dan Hord III: Hord is a partner in HEDLOC Investment Co. LLC, an oil and gas company, and Western Property Group, a commercial property development and leasing firm, both located in Midland, Texas. He holds bachelor's degrees in entrepreneurship and marketing from Baylor.
Christopher Howard: Howard, who had no prior educational ties to Baylor when he was named to the board in 2013, is the president of Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh. A graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, Howard was named the winner of the inaugural Campbell Trophy as college football's top scholar-athlete in 1990 and was also a Rhodes scholar. He served as a helicopter pilot in the Air Force and earned a Bronze Star in Afghanistan.
Mark Hurd: A former Baylor tennis player, Hurd is co-CEO of software giant Oracle -- where, according to Fortune, he earned more than $40 million in his first year -- and past chairman, CEO and president of Hewlett-Packard. He has donated money to help upgrade and renovate Baylor's tennis facilities, which are now named in his honor. He has a bachelor's degree in business administration from Baylor.
Neal Jeffrey: Jeffrey is associate pastor of pastoral and preaching ministries at Prestonwood Baptist Church, a megachurch in Plano, Texas, with more than 41,000 members. The former Baylor quarterback was drafted in 1975 by the San Diego Chargers where he played one season.
Mark Lovvorn: Lovvorn is chairman and CEO of Providence Bancshares Corporation and its subsidiary Providence Bank of Texas, with a history of executive roles in other Dallas-area banks. He's a Baylor graduate with degrees in business administration and accounting.
Mark McCollum: McCollum is executive vice president and chief integration officer for Houston-based Halliburton, a publicly traded global oil and energy company with, according to Forbes, a market value of more than $35 billion. Prior to that, he was an executive with Tenneco Automotive and a partner at accounting firm Arthur Anderson. He has a business administration degree from Baylor.
Bill Simon served in the Navy and was CEO of Walmart U.S. AP Photo/Sarah Bentham
Ronald Dean Murff: Murff, who became chairman of the board of regents on June 1, is a principal of Dalcor Companies, president of the related JKL Group and co-manager of Dalcor Holdings, which are all Dallas-based entities in real estate, investment and property management. He had been the top financial and accounting officer of Guaranty Financial Group, whose Guaranty Bank was Texas' second-largest until its collapse in 2009 amid the crash of the home lending market. He has a business administration degree from Baylor.
Randolph (Randy) Pullin: Pullin is the chief financial officer with Stedman West Interests Inc., which manages oil and gas interests in Texas. According to Baylor's website, he also served on the presidential search advisory committee that recommended Ken Starr, who was removed as president because of the scandal and who subsequently resigned as chancellor. He has a business administration degree from Baylor.
Jeffrey Reeter: Reeter is managing partner with Northwestern Mutual in Houston, which provides investment and wealth management services. He has been with the company since 1984. He has a business degree from Baylor and was a wide receiver on the football team.
William K. Robbins: Robbins started the North American Corporation, which focuses on consulting and investments and the oil and gas industries. He is a Korean War veteran, has served on boards for many U.S. and foreign companies, and he and his wife, Mary Jo, have been noted for their global philanthropy. Robbins has bachelor's and law degrees from Baylor.
Clifton Robinson: In 1964, Robinson founded the National Lloyds Insurance Company, which specializes in property insurance. It was sold to Dallas-based Hilltop Holdings, for which Robinson now serves as a director. In 2009, Robinson purchased the Waco Tribune-Herald, and he sold it to Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway in 2012. He has a business administration degree from Baylor.
Mark Rountree: Rountree is a certified public accountant and a partner at EY (Ernst & Young) in Dallas. He is one of the board's newest members. He has a business administration and master's of taxation degree from Baylor.
William (Bill) S. Simon: Simon was the president and chief executive officer of Walmart U.S. from 2010 until he stepped down in 2014. He was previously an executive at Brinker International and appointed by former-Gov. Jeb Bush to secretary of the Florida Department of Management Services. He spent 25 years in the U.S. Navy and Naval Reserve. He is currently an adjunct professor at Baylor. He has a business administration degree and an MBA from the University of Connecticut.
Kim Wilson Stevens: Stevens is the CEO of Blue Scout Media, a Waco, Texas-based company that streams live events online, including concerts, corporate functions and conferences. Her parents made a $2 million contribution to endow a chair in religious freedom at Baylor. She has a bachelor's degree in education from Baylor.
Philip Stewart: Stewart is president and partner of Terravista Corporation, a San Antonio real estate holdings company, and a retired attorney. He has a bachelor's degree and a law degree from Baylor.
Julie Hermansen Turner: Turner and her husband, Jim, are among Baylor's biggest financial contributors. They developed several beverages bottling companies, including Dr. Pepper/Seven Up, which they sold in 2005. She has a bachelor's degree and a master's degree in physical education from Baylor, and taught at the university for two years. Her husband was an All-Southwest Conference guard on Baylor's basketball team.
Dennis Ray Wiles: One of Baylor's newer regents, Wiles is senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Arlington, Texas. The Baptist General Convention of Texas appointed him to the board in 2014.
Kathy Willss Wright (left) held several position in President George W. Bush's administration. AP Photo/Lawrence Jackson
Richard Willis: Willis was chairman of the board of regents for four consecutive years before stepping down on June 1. He is the president and CEO of Pharmaca Integrative Pharmacy in Boulder, Colorado, and previously was an executive with several Web-based and magazine publishing companies. He holds a bachelor's degree in business administration and a master's degree in business administration from Baylor University.
Ronald L. Wilson: According to Baylor's website, Wilson is a physician in Waco specializing in nephrology and internal medicine. He has his bachelor of arts and medical degree from Baylor. He served nine years in the Air Force.
Kathy Wills Wright: Wright, a former senior vice president for strategic initiatives at Baylor, held several political appointments in President George W. Bush's administration. Among other roles, she was acting director and deputy director of the USA Freedom Corps and special assistant to the president for legislation and policy in the White House office of faith-based and community initiatives. She holds bachelor's and master's degrees in education from Baylor.
"a program.....that contained two convicted of sexual assault"ursamajor said:
The Briles defenses are so extreme.
Was he worse than lots of other coaches across the country? Maybe not.
Did the BOR handle PR very poorly throughout that process? Yes.
Had Starr and the admin failed in setting up the best support structures? Obviously.
Were many of the players good people and good citizens? Surely.
But does that mean Briles didn't also set up a program with no control, shielded from oversight, willing to bring in players with legal and behavioral red flags, that contained two convicted of sexual assault and at least a few others who mistreated women? No it doesn't.
It's not always virtue signaling and PR. Sometimes people really are trying to make things better in the world.
There were NO convicted players on the team. This is the kind of framing of the narrative, whether due to unintentional sloppiness with wording, sheer ignorance, or at worst, outright false witness to paint someone in the absolute worst light possible, that has plagued the discourse surrounding Art Briles. Sadly, it's this kind of irresponsible dialogue that has contributed to the public sentiment that has made Briles into a pariah and destroyed his career. What's even sadder, is that it truly seems Baylor did nothing to counter this false narrative because it was useful to them at the time, and only after the damage was done did they quietly absolve Briles of this false narrative quietly in an unpublicized letter.
A question I have for you is if it's so bad to let in improperly vetted "bad dudes" who assaulted people and presented a danger to the student body, to the point where the leader behind it should be fired and never be able to work again..... then why are voting for Kamala?
I do not believe he ever played; however, I also know I may be wrong.historian said:
Tevin Elliot played in 2011. I remember his name being called. I also remember one game in which he had back to back 15 yard penalties forcing Bennett to pull him out of the game. Don't ask me which one, but I'm pretty sure we ended up winning it anyway.
IIRC, Elliott never even suited up. Sam U maybe practiced some but never got in a game.
Can you explain why he was COMPLETELY EXONERATED?fredbear said:
Yep, CAB was so innocent he was hired immediately by another team and BU has egg on their face. NOT. He created a dumpster fire culture, and his own texts show his knowledge and neglect. Had to go. This is way deeper than his breaking laws. It is the lawlessness he permitted on his watch. Yes. We have been over this so many times, Deny history if you will. But he was fired as was everyone above him. While the AD was picked up. CAB was and is untouchable. That is what happened. Simple.
❤️❤️❤️
— Taylor Young (@1CoachTY) November 3, 2024
But if it's so bad to have let in improperly vetted "bad dudes" who went on to assault people and present a danger to the public, and because of that lawlessness the leader behind it shouldn't ever work again, then why are you voting for Kamala?fredbear said:
Yep, CAB was so innocent he was hired immediately by another team and BU has egg on their face. NOT. He created a dumpster fire culture, and his own texts show his knowledge and neglect. Had to go. This is way deeper than his breaking laws. It is the lawlessness he permitted on his watch. Yes. We have been over this so many times, Deny history if you will. But he was fired as was everyone above him. While the AD was picked up. CAB was and is untouchable. That is what happened. Simple.
Because he was a scapegoat.
A Regent testified in the federal trial last year that Briles ran a good program on and off the field. I'm bringing this up in response to the folks saying he didn't have control of the program.
It's been almost 10 years now. Really surprised ESPN hasn't done a 30 for 30 on the whole saga.
Probably waiting until Baylor is knocking of the playoff door again. Or maybe they know their constant smear campaign narrative was so grossly exaggerated and an embarrassmemt to their trade that they're satisfied to just let it stay in the past.boognish_bear said:
It's been almost 10 years now. Really surprised ESPN hasn't done a 30 for 30 on the whole saga.
Even Mac Engel, one of the media leaders of the feeding frenzy, eventually admitted the earlier facts were skewed and Briles didn't deserve to be blackballed forever.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
Engel chimes in again.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/baylor-excluding-art-briles-his-staff-from-10-year-reunion-is-to-avoid-a-conversation/ar-AA1thPQq
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/baylor-excluding-art-briles-his-staff-from-10-year-reunion-is-to-avoid-a-conversation/ar-AA1thPQq
Quote:
With years of hindsight as a tool, all mistakes, and nuances, are visible.
In a two-hour conversation with one high-ranking member of the Baylor Board of Regents, the person painted an accurate picture of that time: "We panicked," he said. "We didn't handle it right." And, "I didn't want to fire (head coach) Art Briles because I didn't believe it was the right thing to do, but I supported the decision to do it."
It was the calculated decision on the part of some high ranking Baylor board members to go out of their way to label Briles as the sole guilty party, thus ending his career, remains a point of division within that community. It's fading, but the line is still visible.
Quote:
To suggest they were done via a "rape culture" in the football program is to parrot a lawyer looking for a bag of cash from an vulnerable target.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
The thing that always gets me is that KB seemed to have the more troubling rap sheet, but then there he is still on the sidelines of multiple programs with virtually no controversy, including on Baylor's sidelines yesterday.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
Thanks for speaking the truth.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:"a program.....that contained two convicted of sexual assault"ursamajor said:
The Briles defenses are so extreme.
Was he worse than lots of other coaches across the country? Maybe not.
Did the BOR handle PR very poorly throughout that process? Yes.
Had Starr and the admin failed in setting up the best support structures? Obviously.
Were many of the players good people and good citizens? Surely.
But does that mean Briles didn't also set up a program with no control, shielded from oversight, willing to bring in players with legal and behavioral red flags, that contained two convicted of sexual assault and at least a few others who mistreated women? No it doesn't.
It's not always virtue signaling and PR. Sometimes people really are trying to make things better in the world.
There were NO convicted players on the team. This is the kind of framing of the narrative, whether due to unintentional sloppiness with wording, sheer ignorance, or at worst, outright false witness to paint someone in the absolute worst light possible, that has plagued the discourse surrounding Art Briles. Sadly, it's this kind of irresponsible dialogue that has contributed to the public sentiment that has made Briles into a pariah and destroyed his career. What's even sadder, is that it truly seems Baylor did nothing to counter this false narrative because it was useful to them at the time, and only after the damage was done did they quietly absolve Briles of this false narrative quietly in an unpublicized letter.
A question I have for you is if it's so bad to let in improperly vetted "bad dudes" who assaulted people and presented a danger to the student body, to the point where the leader behind it should be fired and never be able to work again..... then why are voting for Kamala?
Sometimes it takes time to embrace the truth. I'm glad Mac Engel has. Better late than never.Dia del DougO said:
Engel chimes in again.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/baylor-excluding-art-briles-his-staff-from-10-year-reunion-is-to-avoid-a-conversation/ar-AA1thPQqQuote:
With years of hindsight as a tool, all mistakes, and nuances, are visible.
In a two-hour conversation with one high-ranking member of the Baylor Board of Regents, the person painted an accurate picture of that time: "We panicked," he said. "We didn't handle it right." And, "I didn't want to fire (head coach) Art Briles because I didn't believe it was the right thing to do, but I supported the decision to do it."
It was the calculated decision on the part of some high ranking Baylor board members to go out of their way to label Briles as the sole guilty party, thus ending his career, remains a point of division within that community. It's fading, but the line is still visible.Quote:
To suggest they were done via a "rape culture" in the football program is to parrot a lawyer looking for a bag of cash from an vulnerable target.
fredbear said:
We have been over this territory countless times. Cab had an out of control culture where winning was above all else, including the ethical treatment of women. His own text messages condemn him. An independent law firm examined the evidence of the FB program and presented a report to the Regents. None of them wanted to upend a successful program. NONE. But the evidence of an out of control culture that demeaned women was so overwhelming they had no choice. Don't be fooled by the number of criminal convictions, The civil settlements are behemoth. No other school has ever hired him because his lack of controls makes him untouchable. Think of all the fallen football coaches who have been rehabbed, but not Briles. The minute a school makes an offer, the public outcry is overwhelming. The scandal was so big the AD and President went down as well.
This is incredibly ignorant. You say he didn't care for the ethical treatment of women, based upon what? That was not his job, to investigate claims of assault. He did display apathy in texts, but again, it was clear he was tired of policing his players' behavior.
The independent law firm did a hit job. They didn't understand why Briles had so many black players on the team. They were wholly ignorant of what happened, and fed a narrative from the beginning. If their findings were so important, why were all records of their findings destroyed?
And of course the Board was not out to simply upend the program, they were simply out to save face for themselves. They painted an institutional failure as a football coach failure. What was inadequate funding of Title IX offices, a complete lack of response from the University to victims of sexual assault for months, years in some cases, got pinned on 1 man, the football coach. Was his job to respond to these women? Some did approach the coaching staff with allegations. But ask yourself, had the football coaches done their own sexual assault investigations, would justice have been served? Were they equipped for it? What exactly did you want to be different?
The sole thing we know of, that Briles definitely did, was bring in second chance players. Players dismissed from other teams. Not convicted in a court of law, just dismissed from other teams.
He is untouchable because millions blame him for sexual assault, just like you do. Facts be damned, a single scapegoat is a silver bullet to a large complex problem, on the surface at least.
Yet again, BOOM goes the dynamite.Porteroso said:fredbear said:
We have been over this territory countless times. Cab had an out of control culture where winning was above all else, including the ethical treatment of women. His own text messages condemn him. An independent law firm examined the evidence of the FB program and presented a report to the Regents. None of them wanted to upend a successful program. NONE. But the evidence of an out of control culture that demeaned women was so overwhelming they had no choice. Don't be fooled by the number of criminal convictions, The civil settlements are behemoth. No other school has ever hired him because his lack of controls makes him untouchable. Think of all the fallen football coaches who have been rehabbed, but not Briles. The minute a school makes an offer, the public outcry is overwhelming. The scandal was so big the AD and President went down as well.
This is incredibly ignorant. You say he didn't care for the ethical treatment of women, based upon what? That was not his job, to investigate claims of assault. He did display apathy in texts, but again, it was clear he was tired of policing his players' behavior.
The independent law firm did a hit job. They didn't understand why Briles had so many black players on the team. They were wholly ignorant of what happened, and fed a narrative from the beginning. If their findings were so important, why were all records of their findings destroyed?
And of course the Board was not out to simply upend the program, they were simply out to save face for themselves. They painted an institutional failure as a football coach failure. What was inadequate funding of Title IX offices, a complete lack of response from the University to victims of sexual assault for months, years in some cases, got pinned on 1 man, the football coach. Was his job to respond to these women? Some did approach the coaching staff with allegations. But ask yourself, had the football coaches done their own sexual assault investigations, would justice have been served? Were they equipped for it? What exactly did you want to be different?
The sole thing we know of, that Briles definitely did, was bring in second chance players. Players dismissed from other teams. Not convicted in a court of law, just dismissed from other teams.
He is untouchable because millions blame him for sexual assault, just like you do. Facts be damned, a single scapegoat is a silver bullet to a large complex problem, on the surface at least.
It's going to be a long bye week.
You best remember me my friend
I am the cold hard truth
-George Jones
I am the cold hard truth
-George Jones
Porteroso said:fredbear said:
We have been over this territory countless times. Cab had an out of control culture where winning was above all else, including the ethical treatment of women. His own text messages condemn him. An independent law firm examined the evidence of the FB program and presented a report to the Regents. None of them wanted to upend a successful program. NONE. But the evidence of an out of control culture that demeaned women was so overwhelming they had no choice. Don't be fooled by the number of criminal convictions, The civil settlements are behemoth. No other school has ever hired him because his lack of controls makes him untouchable. Think of all the fallen football coaches who have been rehabbed, but not Briles. The minute a school makes an offer, the public outcry is overwhelming. The scandal was so big the AD and President went down as well.
This is incredibly ignorant. You say he didn't care for the ethical treatment of women, based upon what? That was not his job, to investigate claims of assault. He did display apathy in texts, but again, it was clear he was tired of policing his players' behavior.
The independent law firm did a hit job. They didn't understand why Briles had so many black players on the team. They were wholly ignorant of what happened, and fed a narrative from the beginning. If their findings were so important, why were all records of their findings destroyed?
And of course the Board was not out to simply upend the program, they were simply out to save face for themselves. They painted an institutional failure as a football coach failure. What was inadequate funding of Title IX offices, a complete lack of response from the University to victims of sexual assault for months, years in some cases, got pinned on 1 man, the football coach. Was his job to respond to these women? Some did approach the coaching staff with allegations. But ask yourself, had the football coaches done their own sexual assault investigations, would justice have been served? Were they equipped for it? What exactly did you want to be different?
The sole thing we know of, that Briles definitely did, was bring in second chance players. Players dismissed from other teams. Not convicted in a court of law, just dismissed from other teams.
He is untouchable because millions blame him for sexual assault, just like you do. Facts be damned, a single scapegoat is a silver bullet to a large complex problem, on the surface at least.
This is right on the mark. Again I say we should all realize that nasty, untrue things can be said about someone by folks with power and influence. And don't we have the obligation to stand up for those whose lives are harmed so drastically by the deceitful actions of others. After all, we could all find ourselves in Briles position one day. I would like to think I would defend any of you in that circumstance and you would return the favor to me.
Uh-oh.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:But if it's so bad to have let in improperly vetted "bad dudes" who went on to assault people and present a danger to the public, and because of that lawlessness the leader behind it shouldn't ever work again, then why are you voting for Kamala?fredbear said:
Yep, CAB was so innocent he was hired immediately by another team and BU has egg on their face. NOT. He created a dumpster fire culture, and his own texts show his knowledge and neglect. Had to go. This is way deeper than his breaking laws. It is the lawlessness he permitted on his watch. Yes. We have been over this so many times, Deny history if you will. But he was fired as was everyone above him. While the AD was picked up. CAB was and is untouchable. That is what happened. Simple.
I truly want one of them to answer this question. None of them ever will. It's blatant and obvious hypocrisy.canoso said:Uh-oh.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:But if it's so bad to have let in improperly vetted "bad dudes" who went on to assault people and present a danger to the public, and because of that lawlessness the leader behind it shouldn't ever work again, then why are you voting for Kamala?fredbear said:
Yep, CAB was so innocent he was hired immediately by another team and BU has egg on their face. NOT. He created a dumpster fire culture, and his own texts show his knowledge and neglect. Had to go. This is way deeper than his breaking laws. It is the lawlessness he permitted on his watch. Yes. We have been over this so many times, Deny history if you will. But he was fired as was everyone above him. While the AD was picked up. CAB was and is untouchable. That is what happened. Simple.
Sam was found guilty, it was overturned and he was found guilty again.muddybrazos said:I think Sam U was actually proven not guilty after appeal. Oakman got his NFL career ruined by false accusations.historian said:
"dozens of rapes"? That was the accusation at the time but it was never proven. Only two were proven in a court of law: Tevin Elliot is still in prison and Sam U served his time long ago. Everything else is unjustified assumption, probably based upon lies.
As far as Oakman goes - being found not guilty does not mean the accusations were false.
It just means they could not be proven.
Those are two very different things.
"Innocent until proven guilty": he was not proven guilty.
This is still the US. We have not become Nazi Germany yet.
This is still the US. We have not become Nazi Germany yet.
Man, you must have done all kinds of bad stuff we haven't proven yet.jikespingleton said:Sam was found guilty, it was overturned and he was found guilty again.muddybrazos said:I think Sam U was actually proven not guilty after appeal. Oakman got his NFL career ruined by false accusations.historian said:
"dozens of rapes"? That was the accusation at the time but it was never proven. Only two were proven in a court of law: Tevin Elliot is still in prison and Sam U served his time long ago. Everything else is unjustified assumption, probably based upon lies.
As far as Oakman goes - being found not guilty does not mean the accusations were false.
It just means they could not be proven.
Those are two very different things.
Even with the disclaimer of "I also know I may be wrong", your post comes across like a poorly veiled attempt at whitewashing. Maybe that is not what you are trying to do, but it's not cool to to suggest alternative history when you are talking about the worst person in the history of Baylor football. "he never played for us" and "IIRC, never even suited up". Ridiculous. It would take all of 10 seconds of Internet searching to find out that he played two years, 2010 and 2011.Harrison Bergeron said:I do not believe he ever played; however, I also know I may be wrong.historian said:
Tevin Elliot played in 2011. I remember his name being called. I also remember one game in which he had back to back 15 yard penalties forcing Bennett to pull him out of the game. Don't ask me which one, but I'm pretty sure we ended up winning it anyway.
IIRC, Elliott never even suited up. Sam U maybe practiced some but never got in a game.
Sam U never suited up for us and therefore never played a down.
Your post comes across like a poorly veiled attempt at pointless virtue signaling. Tevin Elliot came to Baylor as a freshman out of HS with no signs he was a rapist. He did bad ***** When it was discovered, he never played again. How much does it matter that he played before or whether a random poster remembered that correctly (with a disclaimer)?jikespingleton said:Even with the disclaimer of "I also know I may be wrong", your post comes across like a poorly veiled attempt at whitewashing. Maybe that is not what you are trying to do, but it's not cool to to suggest alternative history when you are talking about the worst person in the history of Baylor football. "he never played for us" and "IIRC, never even suited up". Ridiculous. It would take all of 10 seconds of Internet searching to find out that he played two years, 2010 and 2011.Harrison Bergeron said:I do not believe he ever played; however, I also know I may be wrong.historian said:
Tevin Elliot played in 2011. I remember his name being called. I also remember one game in which he had back to back 15 yard penalties forcing Bennett to pull him out of the game. Don't ask me which one, but I'm pretty sure we ended up winning it anyway.
IIRC, Elliott never even suited up. Sam U maybe practiced some but never got in a game.
Sam U never suited up for us and therefore never played a down.
Waco1947 ,la
And rightfully so.Waco1947 said:
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