bear2be2 said:

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BUHSFootballFan said:

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Looks like Gary went a whopping 7-23 at Oregon State.

2015 2-10
2016 4-8
2017 1-5 fired and told to GTFO

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If Rhule has that same record in 2019 and is getting housed routinely the way Anderson's team was this year, he'll be feeling the exact same pressure. No one I've seen here has suggested that Rhule be given an infinite leash regardless of results. Some of us are just willing to give a coach with a strong track record more than five games to prove he can replicate his success in a new environment, particularly when said environment is viewed by most outside the Baylor bubble as a cesspool.

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YoakDaddy said:

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bear2be2 said:

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SicThe12 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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BUHSFootballFan said:

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Looks like Gary went a whopping 7-23 at Oregon State.

2015 2-10
2016 4-8
2017 1-5 fired and told to GTFO

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If Rhule has that same record in 2019 and is getting housed routinely the way Anderson's team was this year, he'll be feeling the exact same pressure. No one I've seen here has suggested that Rhule be given an infinite leash regardless of results. Some of us are just willing to give a coach with a strong track record more than five games to prove he can replicate his success in a new environment, particularly when said environment is viewed by most outside the Baylor bubble as a cesspool.

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2 career winning seasons in the G5 is not a strong track record.

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Temple has been to five bowl games in its history. Rhule had the team bowl eligible in three of his four seasons as head coach there and led them to a pair of 10-win seasons.

You can hold whatever opinion of Rhule you want based on his first five games here. But any coach that wins 10 games at Temple, much less does it twice, has a strong track record.

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Baylor is not Temple. 0-5.

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CorsicanaBear said:

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I would note that Andersen's time at OSU is bereft of losses to FCS schools.

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80sBEAR said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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What's Art Briles' record this year?

0-1 in job offers isn't he?

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But he does have 25 million reasons to smile!

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Malbec said:

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SicThe12 said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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What's Art Briles' record this year?

0-1 in job offers isn't he?

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Not sure what this has to do with anything, but let me put your attention craving ass on ignore. Don't bother responding I won't read it.

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Thanks for quoting MV. But to answer his question, Briles is actually 1-0 on job offers, since technically the TiCats hired him. He's 0-1 on starting jobs.

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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BUHSFootballFan said:

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Looks like Gary went a whopping 7-23 at Oregon State.

2015 2-10
2016 4-8
2017 1-5 fired and told to GTFO

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If Rhule has that same record in 2019 and is getting housed routinely the way Anderson's team was this year, he'll be feeling the exact same pressure. No one I've seen here has suggested that Rhule be given an infinite leash regardless of results. Some of us are just willing to give a coach with a strong track record more than five games to prove he can replicate his success in a new environment, particularly when said environment is viewed by most outside the Baylor bubble as a cesspool.

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I don't mind giving the guy time (I think he needs at least two seasons), but to come out and lay the eggs he has laid the first half of the season has me not understanding the hope that you and others seem to have in his turning the program around.

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Temple fans had the exact same concerns after his first season there. They made exponential improvement after that.

My hope rests in a number of factors. I'll share a few below, but it's largely a waste of time. You and others will suggest I'm an excuse-making Pollyanna, neither one of us will change the other's opinion and the discussion will go nowhere productive. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Rhule will be given a minimum of four years, unless the bottom really falls out. I don't believe that will happen. Many here do. Time will prove who is right.

But as for the reasons I'm hopeful, here are a few.

1. Transition's hard. This is true of all change, but it's especially so when going from intentionally simple schemes to ones that are far more difficult to grasp with players who have been conditioned for years for the former. Art Briles was a brilliant offensive mind, and kudos to him for creating an offensive scheme in which speedy, often one-trick players could excel. But his players have almost always struggled with the transition from Briles ball to the more traditional game everyone else is playing. What we're seeing this year is in many ways analogous to the struggles Briles' best players have experienced when graduating from his program to the NFL. Give these guys another offseason to absorb what Rhule and Co. are trying to do, and I think you'll see significant strides made in all phases.

2. Youth's being served. As of last week, we had 25 freshmen and sophomores on our two deep, and a number of others who are getting time as reserves. Experience matters in college football, and a lot of the mistakes that are costing us games right now are being made by guys who are in unfamiliar or uncomfortable positions. We only graduate a couple of impact seniors this spring. In 2018 and beyond, I expect to see the rest of these guys start making the plays they're not making now and stop making the mistakes they are.

3. Recruiting's going well. Rhule put together a very solid class in a very short period of time last winter, and he's backed that up with an even more talented group this year. We've already got kids from the 2017 class contributing this season, and if he can keep this year's class together, we should be infusing some serious talent into the program.

4. Help is coming. In addition to the freshman we're adding to the program, we've got several transfers waiting in the wings at positions of need. In Hurd, Fruhmorgan and Lockhart, you've got three starting caliber players on the scout team right now. And Beard should provide depth at the very least. Put them on this year's team and we're a lot better. There's no reason they shouldn't help a more veteran group next year. And with a full year to evaluate guys, we should be able to add a JUCO player or two this year as well.

5. I believe in Rhule's plan and vision for the program. Many here mock it, and that's fine. But I believe Rhule knows how to build a program, and he didn't forget how to coach on the flight from Philly to Waco. This season has gotten off to a disastrous start, and I understand the frustration with our record. But I don't think anything we've seen to this point or will see the next seven games is fatal to the program. If we start getting blown out routinely, start to lose key players to other programs and see our recruiting take a nosedive, I'll start to share some of the concerns expressed here. But as long as we play hard, remain competitive and get this class signed, I'm willing to write off 2017 as a one-time mulligan and start grading Rhule's product in Year 2.

6. I don't think Rhule's eggs were ever in the 2017 basket. If you listened closely to what he's said upon being hired, it was pretty clear that, rightly or wrongly, he's always viewed this as a long-term building project. I think Rhule was always more concerned about building the foundation for his program than winning games this season. That doesn't excuse this Liberty or UTSA losses, and whether that's the right path or the wise path can be debated, but everything he has said and done to this stage points to that being his focus. Rhule spent months laying out his vision for the program, and it was always couched in a big-picture view. He's interested in building a program, not a team. And he's going to do that at Baylor the same way he did at Temple -- his way.

Whether he's capable of accomplishing that here remains to be seen. He's certainly off to a poor start. But when you're bringing fundamental changes philosophically, as Rhule is in almost every facet of the program, your choices are to scale back what you're doing and meet the players where they are, which would likely provide better results in the short term, or throw everything at your players and make them meet you. Rhule has clearly chosen option B. Again, the wisdom of this can be debated, but if you accept the premise that he's more concerned about where the program is two and three years from now than where it is currently, there's logic in what he's doing.

I think this staff, as with most football coaches, is stubborn and have more confidence in themselves than perhaps they should. They have a plan and a process that has worked for them in the past and that they believe in. And rather than adapting that plan to their ill-fitting talent for what they perceive to be short-term gains, they'd prefer to get the players they've inherited and recruited playing their brand of football, even if it means breaking some of them like wild horses.

That's either a bold perspective or a foolish one. Time will tell. The one thing Rhule has going for him is a long-term contract, so it really doesn't matter what the fans think of him right now. And if he can do here what he did in Temple, where he broke down the program to build it back up, then all will be forgiven in time. If he can't, it never mattered anyway.

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