I'll tell you he ain't recruiting well enough for the style of football he wants to play.

Gotta have 4&5 star lines...and 4&5 star depth.

D. C. Bear said:

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Mothra said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mothra said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mothra said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Boatshoes said:

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Mothra said:

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I keep seeing how many of the Rhule supporters are touting what a great recruiter Rhule is and how well he's done thus far, but wonder about such claims. The class currently has 1 committed 4 star out of 19 commits and is ranked 6th in the Big 12. That doesn't seem so great when compared to recent classes. So what is the basis for this claim? Is it because no one expected us to recruit so well given how bad the season went and because of the scandal? Is it because some are anticipating some highly ranked recruits to commit in the near future? What is it?

---

It is because the talking points demand they support him. At such time when the talking points demand they not support him, their opions will change. The bottom line to their pronouncements about everything: "Baylor is always right."

---

It's probably because we have a top 25-30 class depending on the site with several more four-star recruits in play.

---

If that's how you define great, I now understand your position. Our standards are a little different.

---

Did you complain about the rankings of Briles' classes?

---

Prior to 2016, very much so, especially on the defensive side of the ball. But I never proclaimed Rhule's greatness, which if you recall is what this thread is about.

---

Starting on Dec. 7 with one committed recruit and putting together the 34th ranked class in the nation might appropriately be classified as greatness.

---

Again, I think you need to re-read the OP. I was asking about the current recruiting class. No question what Rhule did last year was amazing.

---

OK, then. Right now, Rhule is putting together a class that, if is signs, would be ranked as high or higher than any class Baylor has ever brought to campus. This is after going 1-11 at a school coming off of some of the worst publicity in the history of college football with the possibility of NCAA sanctions in the shadows.

---

And in your opinion, that makes him a great recruiter. Got it. You are on record.

Let's hope you're right.

---

Yes, if he brings in the highest ranked class in school history after the season we just watched, that makes him, in my opinion, a great recruiter.

---

Right now it's not the highest ranked in school history, just FYI. 2016 takes that distinction. And Reedy had some higher ranked classes as well. But I agree with others it's comparable to Briles' classes, if recruiting ended today.

I don't believe Briles was a great recruiter, and feel based on the evidence thus far, it's early to declare Rhule a great recruiter, but I understand your position. Hopefully we end up finishing higher than 6th best in the Big 12.

BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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I'll tell you he ain't recruiting well enough for the style of football he wants to play.

Gotta have 4&5 star lines...and 4&5 star depth.

---

The OL recruits are solid 3-stars, but I get your point. The class doesn't yet have the talented mammoths necessary to run pro-style sets like he wants, IMO. Hopefully he can pick up some JUCO's on the OL.

Mothra said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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I'll tell you he ain't recruiting well enough for the style of football he wants to play.

Gotta have 4&5 star lines...and 4&5 star depth.

---

The OL recruits are solid 3-stars, but I get your point. The class doesn't yet have the talented mammoths necessary to run pro-style sets like he wants, IMO. Hopefully he can pick up some JUCO's on the OL.

---

Agreed and on top of that if we're working with decent 3 star players: we're going to need the best Strength and conditioning money can buy.

From 2010 to the 2018 now that ranking are basically 85 to 86. Folks your splitting hairs and it makes no since. We went 1-11. Briles proved his value with those rankings. The question is will Rhule prove his value. I don't think he will come close to matching Briles on the field success.

Stretch said:

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From 2010 to the 2018 now that ranking are basically 85 to 86. Folks your splitting hairs and it makes no since. We went 1-11. Briles proved his value with those rankings. The question is will Rhule prove his value. I don't think he will come close to matching Briles on the field success.

---

The difference between Rhule and Briles is not charisma.

The difference is Briles knew how to troubleshoot and Rhule is trying to force something to happen.

You can see it all the way down to the slogans: "Trust the process" vs. "Always Deliver".

I agree that he won't come close to matching until he accepts that he needs to do everything he can to win instead of trying to win a certain way.

D. C. Bear said:

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la1037 said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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Chanceux said:

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Not too bad on paper with all things considered. Bout on par with what Briles did his first few years. Course Briles didn't have a shiny new stadium to cruit to.

---

Avg Rating:
2008 - 81.31 (9)
2009 - 82.87 (10)
2010 - 85.00 (8)
2011 - 82.66 (8)
2012 - 85.48 (3)
2013 - 84.68 (3)
2014 - 85.39 (3)
2015 - 85.20 (5)
2016 - 86.03 (5)
2017 - 84.60 (5)
2018 - 86.00 (6)

So, the average rating is .03 from the highest it has been in the composite era and one of those in the 2018 is 2 star punter. He's an Army All-American though. Kickers and punters get no love. Add some of the recruits in consideration for the final spots and it will be the best class on average since Reedy, but this class is scheduled to qualify. Tech and West Virginia are ahead of Baylor at this moment with two more commits.

---

Wow. We have some really good talent over the last 3 years. Weird how some think we have none.

With on field strategy lacking, our only hope is for Rhule to out recruit the field. Maybe he can do it. I honestly hope so.

---

Your idea that on field strategy is lacking is not supported by evidence.

---

Have you seen any games in person? There are significant things in every game I saw that made it clear that coaching strategy was inconsistent and generally terrible for significant chunks of games.

Oh, and 1-11 means the on field strategy had to be horrible. You can't go 1-11 without major coaching failures. It's not possible.

Mothra said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Boatshoes said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I keep seeing how many of the Rhule supporters are touting what a great recruiter Rhule is and how well he's done thus far, but wonder about such claims. The class currently has 1 committed 4 star out of 19 commits and is ranked 6th in the Big 12. That doesn't seem so great when compared to recent classes. So what is the basis for this claim? Is it because no one expected us to recruit so well given how bad the season went and because of the scandal? Is it because some are anticipating some highly ranked recruits to commit in the near future? What is it?

---

It is because the talking points demand they support him. At such time when the talking points demand they not support him, their opions will change. The bottom line to their pronouncements about everything: "Baylor is always right."

---

It's probably because we have a top 25-30 class depending on the site with several more four-star recruits in play.

---

If that's how you define great, I now understand your position. Our standards are a little different.

---

Did you complain about the rankings of Briles' classes?

---

Prior to 2016, very much so, especially on the defensive side of the ball. But I never proclaimed Rhule's greatness, which if you recall is what this thread is about.

---

Starting on Dec. 7 with one committed recruit and putting together the 34th ranked class in the nation might appropriately be classified as greatness.

---

Again, I think you need to re-read the OP. I was asking about the current recruiting class. No question what Rhule did last year was amazing.

---

OK, then. Right now, Rhule is putting together a class that, if is signs, would be ranked as high or higher than any class Baylor has ever brought to campus. This is after going 1-11 at a school coming off of some of the worst publicity in the history of college football with the possibility of NCAA sanctions in the shadows.

---

And in your opinion, that makes him a great recruiter. Got it. You are on record.

Let's hope you're right.

---

Yes, if he brings in the highest ranked class in school history after the season we just watched, that makes him, in my opinion, a great recruiter.

---

Right now it's not the highest ranked in school history, just FYI. 2016 takes that distinction. And Reedy had some higher ranked classes as well. But I agree with others it's comparable to Briles' classes, if recruiting ended today.

But I understand your position.

---

The 2016 class we signed took that distinction. The class we actually brought to campus was a ranked 58th between UCF and Temple--good enough to compete in the American.

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been!"

When you look at the teams that make the playoffs and you look at the recruiting rankings, you will see the teams in the playoffs are also consistently in the top 5-10 in the recruiting rankings. To get there, we will have to win games and then start to attract that deep, top level talent that top 10 classes get. Of course, talent is to enough (looking at you, Texas) but it seems to be a prerequisite to win at the highest levels.

Krieg said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

la1037 said:

---

Brian Ethridge said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Not too bad on paper with all things considered. Bout on par with what Briles did his first few years. Course Briles didn't have a shiny new stadium to cruit to.

---

Avg Rating:
2008 - 81.31 (9)
2009 - 82.87 (10)
2010 - 85.00 (8)
2011 - 82.66 (8)
2012 - 85.48 (3)
2013 - 84.68 (3)
2014 - 85.39 (3)
2015 - 85.20 (5)
2016 - 86.03 (5)
2017 - 84.60 (5)
2018 - 86.00 (6)

So, the average rating is .03 from the highest it has been in the composite era and one of those in the 2018 is 2 star punter. He's an Army All-American though. Kickers and punters get no love. Add some of the recruits in consideration for the final spots and it will be the best class on average since Reedy, but this class is scheduled to qualify. Tech and West Virginia are ahead of Baylor at this moment with two more commits.

---

Wow. We have some really good talent over the last 3 years. Weird how some think we have none.

With on field strategy lacking, our only hope is for Rhule to out recruit the field. Maybe he can do it. I honestly hope so.

---

Your idea that on field strategy is lacking is not supported by evidence.

---

Have you seen any games in person? There are significant things in every game I saw that made it clear that coaching strategy was inconsistent and generally terrible for significant chunks of games.

Oh, and 1-11 means the on field strategy had to be horrible. You can't go 1-11 without major coaching failures. It's not possible.

---

Agreed.

There was a simple solution. Get rid of the playbook. Spread em out. Play fast.
& Put points on the board.

Its so simple. Its damn near school yard football.

Rhule chose the complete opposite because he thinks its his way or the highway. He want's to be old school Penn St. so bad. By the end of the season I had no clue what his philosophy was.

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

la1037 said:

---

Brian Ethridge said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Not too bad on paper with all things considered. Bout on par with what Briles did his first few years. Course Briles didn't have a shiny new stadium to cruit to.

---

Avg Rating:
2008 - 81.31 (9)
2009 - 82.87 (10)
2010 - 85.00 (8)
2011 - 82.66 (8)
2012 - 85.48 (3)
2013 - 84.68 (3)
2014 - 85.39 (3)
2015 - 85.20 (5)
2016 - 86.03 (5)
2017 - 84.60 (5)
2018 - 86.00 (6)

So, the average rating is .03 from the highest it has been in the composite era and one of those in the 2018 is 2 star punter. He's an Army All-American though. Kickers and punters get no love. Add some of the recruits in consideration for the final spots and it will be the best class on average since Reedy, but this class is scheduled to qualify. Tech and West Virginia are ahead of Baylor at this moment with two more commits.

---

Wow. We have some really good talent over the last 3 years. Weird how some think we have none.

With on field strategy lacking, our only hope is for Rhule to out recruit the field. Maybe he can do it. I honestly hope so.

---

Your idea that on field strategy is lacking is not supported by evidence.

---

Given the number of different sets we ran this year offensively, I'd say there was pretty strong evidence that Rhule and Nixon were trying a bunch of stuff to see what worked. The offense that played against TCU looked a lot different than the offense that began the year. Many of the plays weren't even part of the arsenal the first few games.

I do give them credit for the improvement in schemes toward the end of the season. While I don't know if this offense will ever be great, it certainly should improve next year - significantly.

---

Yep.

Krieg said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

la1037 said:

---

Brian Ethridge said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

Not too bad on paper with all things considered. Bout on par with what Briles did his first few years. Course Briles didn't have a shiny new stadium to cruit to.

---

Avg Rating:
2008 - 81.31 (9)
2009 - 82.87 (10)
2010 - 85.00 (8)
2011 - 82.66 (8)
2012 - 85.48 (3)
2013 - 84.68 (3)
2014 - 85.39 (3)
2015 - 85.20 (5)
2016 - 86.03 (5)
2017 - 84.60 (5)
2018 - 86.00 (6)

So, the average rating is .03 from the highest it has been in the composite era and one of those in the 2018 is 2 star punter. He's an Army All-American though. Kickers and punters get no love. Add some of the recruits in consideration for the final spots and it will be the best class on average since Reedy, but this class is scheduled to qualify. Tech and West Virginia are ahead of Baylor at this moment with two more commits.

---

Wow. We have some really good talent over the last 3 years. Weird how some think we have none.

With on field strategy lacking, our only hope is for Rhule to out recruit the field. Maybe he can do it. I honestly hope so.

---

Your idea that on field strategy is lacking is not supported by evidence.

---

Have you seen any games in person? There are significant things in every game I saw that made it clear that coaching strategy was inconsistent and generally terrible for significant chunks of games.

Oh, and 1-11 means the on field strategy had to be horrible. You can't go 1-11 without major coaching failures. It's not possible.

---

Yeah, I and about four other people watched the Kansas game in person. They looked pretty good for most of the game.

You can't go 0-1 against Liberty without major coaching failures. Having said that, it actually doesn't mean on the field strategy was horrible. Strategy doesn't help much if you don't have players on the field who can execute the plays consistently. It wasn't the "strategy" to snap the ball over the punter's head against Kansas State, for example. It wasn't "strategy" for Charlie to throw that interception against Tech. Inconsistency is a sign of development because it means that you are sometimes good.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Boatshoes said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I keep seeing how many of the Rhule supporters are touting what a great recruiter Rhule is and how well he's done thus far, but wonder about such claims. The class currently has 1 committed 4 star out of 19 commits and is ranked 6th in the Big 12. That doesn't seem so great when compared to recent classes. So what is the basis for this claim? Is it because no one expected us to recruit so well given how bad the season went and because of the scandal? Is it because some are anticipating some highly ranked recruits to commit in the near future? What is it?

---

It is because the talking points demand they support him. At such time when the talking points demand they not support him, their opions will change. The bottom line to their pronouncements about everything: "Baylor is always right."

---

It's probably because we have a top 25-30 class depending on the site with several more four-star recruits in play.

---

If that's how you define great, I now understand your position. Our standards are a little different.

---

Did you complain about the rankings of Briles' classes?

---

Prior to 2016, very much so, especially on the defensive side of the ball. But I never proclaimed Rhule's greatness, which if you recall is what this thread is about.

---

Starting on Dec. 7 with one committed recruit and putting together the 34th ranked class in the nation might appropriately be classified as greatness.

---

Again, I think you need to re-read the OP. I was asking about the current recruiting class. No question what Rhule did last year was amazing.

---

OK, then. Right now, Rhule is putting together a class that, if is signs, would be ranked as high or higher than any class Baylor has ever brought to campus. This is after going 1-11 at a school coming off of some of the worst publicity in the history of college football with the possibility of NCAA sanctions in the shadows.

---

And in your opinion, that makes him a great recruiter. Got it. You are on record.

Let's hope you're right.

---

Yes, if he brings in the highest ranked class in school history after the season we just watched, that makes him, in my opinion, a great recruiter.

---

Right now it's not the highest ranked in school history, just FYI. 2016 takes that distinction. And Reedy had some higher ranked classes as well. But I agree with others it's comparable to Briles' classes, if recruiting ended today.

But I understand your position.

---

The 2016 class we signed took that distinction. The class we actually brought to campus was a ranked 58th between UCF and Temple--good enough to compete in the American.

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been!"

When you look at the teams that make the playoffs and you look at the recruiting rankings, you will see the teams in the playoffs are also consistently in the top 5-10 in the recruiting rankings. To get there, we will have to win games and then start to attract that deep, top level talent that top 10 classes get. Of course, talent is to enough (looking at you, Texas) but it seems to be a prerequisite to win at the highest levels.

---

247 had the re-adjusted 2016 class at 31. Prior to that we were top 15.

And I agree for the most part on your last paragraph. Only caveat to that is the Briles offense was the great equalizer, and very nearly made the playoffs a couple of years ago, despite the talent disparity.

Rhule doesn't have a nuclear weapon in his arsenal, so he is going to have to do this the more traditional way, which is why I suspect making the playoffs is something that is never going to happen. We no longer have the great equalizer.

Mothra said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Boatshoes said:

---

Mothra said:

---

I keep seeing how many of the Rhule supporters are touting what a great recruiter Rhule is and how well he's done thus far, but wonder about such claims. The class currently has 1 committed 4 star out of 19 commits and is ranked 6th in the Big 12. That doesn't seem so great when compared to recent classes. So what is the basis for this claim? Is it because no one expected us to recruit so well given how bad the season went and because of the scandal? Is it because some are anticipating some highly ranked recruits to commit in the near future? What is it?

---

It is because the talking points demand they support him. At such time when the talking points demand they not support him, their opions will change. The bottom line to their pronouncements about everything: "Baylor is always right."

---

It's probably because we have a top 25-30 class depending on the site with several more four-star recruits in play.

---

If that's how you define great, I now understand your position. Our standards are a little different.

---

Did you complain about the rankings of Briles' classes?

---

Prior to 2016, very much so, especially on the defensive side of the ball. But I never proclaimed Rhule's greatness, which if you recall is what this thread is about.

---

Starting on Dec. 7 with one committed recruit and putting together the 34th ranked class in the nation might appropriately be classified as greatness.

---

Again, I think you need to re-read the OP. I was asking about the current recruiting class. No question what Rhule did last year was amazing.

---

OK, then. Right now, Rhule is putting together a class that, if is signs, would be ranked as high or higher than any class Baylor has ever brought to campus. This is after going 1-11 at a school coming off of some of the worst publicity in the history of college football with the possibility of NCAA sanctions in the shadows.

---

And in your opinion, that makes him a great recruiter. Got it. You are on record.

Let's hope you're right.

---

Yes, if he brings in the highest ranked class in school history after the season we just watched, that makes him, in my opinion, a great recruiter.

---

Right now it's not the highest ranked in school history, just FYI. 2016 takes that distinction. And Reedy had some higher ranked classes as well. But I agree with others it's comparable to Briles' classes, if recruiting ended today.

But I understand your position.

---

The 2016 class we signed took that distinction. The class we actually brought to campus was a ranked 58th between UCF and Temple--good enough to compete in the American.

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been!"

When you look at the teams that make the playoffs and you look at the recruiting rankings, you will see the teams in the playoffs are also consistently in the top 5-10 in the recruiting rankings. To get there, we will have to win games and then start to attract that deep, top level talent that top 10 classes get. Of course, talent is to enough (looking at you, Texas) but it seems to be a prerequisite to win at the highest levels.

---

247 had the re-adjusted 2016 class at 31. Prior to that we were top 15.

And I agree for the most part on your last paragraph. Only caveat to that is the Briles offense was the great equalizer, and very nearly made the playoffs a couple of years ago, despite the talent disparity.

Rhule doesn't have a nuclear weapon in his arsenal, so he is going to have to do this the more traditional way, which is why I suspect making the playoffs is something that is never going to happen. We no longer have the great equalizer.

---

Yep. It was very, very close.

Why do you automatically assume that a player that would have fit in perfectly in Briles system would also fit in the same way in some different system ?

bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Baylor's class is currently ranked 25th nationally by rivals, 26th nationally by ESPN and 31st nationally by 247sports. And there are a still a lot of dominoes left to fall.

In the context of both Baylor's recent recruiting and the surrounding circumstances, this is a very good class.

---

So you're one who sees it as great based on the circumstances, it sounds like. I get that.

I would say there's still a lot of dominoes to fall for a lot of teams. A number of teams in front and behind us have far less recruits at this point, so there is certainly a possibility of moving up or down.

---

This class is poised to be as good as or better than any Briles class. So I view it as very good in a universal context. But the surrounding circumstances would seem to prove the premise you're questioning, whether or not Rhule's a good recruiter.

After putting together a top-40 class in two months last year and a top-30 class (at least) this year off a 1-11 season, I'm not sure how that's still a question.

---

I hope you're right. I don't see the star power at the top of the class that we saw in the last few years of Briles, however. Perhaps we will pick some up before the end.

I don't put as much stock in the circumstances as you do. Rhule has the benefit of the brand and facilities Briles built, so I guess the fact we are getting good players doesn't come as much of a surprise to me. But to be honest, I never considered Briles a great recruiter.

---

I've got a chart I put together and posted on baylorfans before the merger that would provide some really good context to this discussion, but I can't get the formatted version on this site. But many of your preconceptions are incorrect. Rhule is recruiting on a very similar level to what Briles did from 2012-15. Briles' 2016 class was on a higher level, but most of those guys never made it to campus.

---

I am not sure what you believe my preconceived notions to be. I never said Rhule wasn't doing a good job or that his classes aren't "comparable" to Briles. What I said is I don't see the greatness that many are proclaiming and don't see the star power at the top of the class that we saw with Briles. That is true - there aren't as many 4 stars in this class. That could of course change very quickly and hopefully it does. I think we can finish better than 6th beat in the Big 12 or at least should.

---

And that's before establishing a program. If/when we start winning games, the sky's the limit for this staff in terms of recruiting.

---

I agree with this. If we can find a way to start winning.. I believe this staff will clean up in recruiting. The winning part is what most of us are concerned with.

D. C. Bear said:

---

You can't go 0-1 against Liberty without major coaching failures. Having said that, it actually doesn't mean on the field strategy was horrible. Strategy doesn't help much if you don't have players on the field who can execute the plays consistently. It wasn't the "strategy" to snap the ball over the punter's head against Kansas State, for example. It wasn't "strategy" for Charlie to throw that interception against Tech. Inconsistency is a sign of development because it means that you are sometimes good.

---

I agree with that. I think part of the Liberty loss was that this staff elevated strategy and tactics over execution. We had kids confused, pausing, and running in sand because they didn't know what to do. That's how Buckshot Calvert torches you for half a hundred.

I do think our defensive staff has a workable strategy and may well turn the switch when the kids are sufficiently developed. (I do not agree that is the best path, but it is one that can eventually work after a series of unnecessary difficulties.)

As for the offensive staff, I'm far less optimistic. But we've got a good QB and some talent at RB and on the edges. If the OL can develop a bit, we should be able to create some offense even without a great strategist in the booth.

Compounding said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Baylor's class is currently ranked 25th nationally by rivals, 26th nationally by ESPN and 31st nationally by 247sports. And there are a still a lot of dominoes left to fall.

In the context of both Baylor's recent recruiting and the surrounding circumstances, this is a very good class.

---

So you're one who sees it as great based on the circumstances, it sounds like. I get that.

I would say there's still a lot of dominoes to fall for a lot of teams. A number of teams in front and behind us have far less recruits at this point, so there is certainly a possibility of moving up or down.

---

This class is poised to be as good as or better than any Briles class. So I view it as very good in a universal context. But the surrounding circumstances would seem to prove the premise you're questioning, whether or not Rhule's a good recruiter.

After putting together a top-40 class in two months last year and a top-30 class (at least) this year off a 1-11 season, I'm not sure how that's still a question.

---

I hope you're right. I don't see the star power at the top of the class that we saw in the last few years of Briles, however. Perhaps we will pick some up before the end.

I don't put as much stock in the circumstances as you do. Rhule has the benefit of the brand and facilities Briles built, so I guess the fact we are getting good players doesn't come as much of a surprise to me. But to be honest, I never considered Briles a great recruiter.

---

I've got a chart I put together and posted on baylorfans before the merger that would provide some really good context to this discussion, but I can't get the formatted version on this site. But many of your preconceptions are incorrect. Rhule is recruiting on a very similar level to what Briles did from 2012-15. Briles' 2016 class was on a higher level, but most of those guys never made it to campus.

---

I am not sure what you believe my preconceived notions to be. I never said Rhule wasn't doing a good job or that his classes aren't "comparable" to Briles. What I said is I don't see the greatness that many are proclaiming and don't see the star power at the top of the class that we saw with Briles. That is true - there aren't as many 4 stars in this class. That could of course change very quickly and hopefully it does. I think we can finish better than 6th beat in the Big 12 or at least should.

---

And that's before establishing a program. If/when we start winning games, the sky's the limit for this staff in terms of recruiting.

---

I agree with this. If we can find a way to start winning.. I believe this staff will clean up in recruiting. The winning part is what most of us are concerned with.

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I agree. I think this staff is well connected. I really like the list of schools from which we have current commits. That tells me we can get in the door in all the right places (big urban talent churning schools, and the right small towns in East Texas, places like Cuero, etc.). We've just got to create some legitimacy on the field.

BASED ON THE COMPOSITE RATINGS

CURRENT COMMITS
90.64 (#47 WR) - Joshua Fleeks (Cedar Hill, TX)
88.99 (#9 APB) - Craig Williams (Crosby, TX)
88.54 (#21 ATH) - Stanley Hackett (Pasadena, TX)
88.17 (#73 WR) - Kalon Barnes (Silsbee, TX)
87.96 (#33 OT) - Connor Galvin (Katy, TX)
87.91 (#35 DT) - Joshua Landry (Houston, TX)
86.89 (#29 TE) - Bralen Taylor (Cuero, TX)
86.56 (#50 S) - Christian Morgan (Porter, TX)
86.35 (#44 OLB) - Joseph Ogunbanjo (Houston, TX)
85.81 (#62 OT) - Casey Phillips (Franklin, TX)
85.80 (#40 TE) - Christoph Henle (Arlington, TX)
85.62 (#65 OT) - Jackson Kimble (Southlake, TX)
85.40 (#134 WR) - Jackson Gleeson (Mansfield, TX)
84.94 (#79 ATH) - Mark Milton (Friendswood, TX)
84.67 (#96 OT) - Ylijaah Hall (Bryan, TX)
84.59 (#52 TE) - Ben Sims (San Antonio, TX)
84.52 (#90 S) - J.T. Woods (Cibolo, TX)
82.56 (#84 WDE) - Marje Smith (Marshall, TX)
78.03 (#5 P) - Issac Power (Parker, CO)

PLAYERS THAT WE APPEAR TO AT LEAST STILL HAVE A SHOT AT
92.52 (#17 DT) - Christian Barmore (Philadelphia, PA)
92.30 (#37 WR) - Tommy Bush (Schertz, TX)
91.34 (#11 DT QB) - Gerry Bohanon (Earle, AR)
89.97 (#25 S) - Cam'ron Jones (Mansfield, TX)
89.88 (#50 WR) - Tyquan Thornton (Miami, FL)
89.58 (#54 WR) - Miles Battle (Houston, TX)
89.41 (#16 ATH) - B.J. Hanspard (DeSoto, TX)
88.63 (#20 ATH) - Daevon Robinson (Medford, NJ)
87.78 (#2 JC OG) - Johncarlo Valentin (ASA College-New York)

Texasjeremy said:

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BASED ON THE COMPOSITE RATINGS

CURRENT COMMITS
90.64 (#47 WR) - Joshua Fleeks (Cedar Hill, TX)
88.99 (#9 APB) - Craig Williams (Crosby, TX)
88.54 (#21 ATH) - Stanley Hackett (Pasadena, TX)
88.17 (#73 WR) - Kalon Barnes (Silsbee, TX)
87.96 (#33 OT) - Connor Galvin (Katy, TX)
87.91 (#35 DT) - Joshua Landry (Houston, TX)
86.89 (#29 TE) - Bralen Taylor (Cuero, TX)
86.56 (#50 S) - Christian Morgan (Porter, TX)
86.35 (#44 OLB) - Joseph Ogunbanjo (Houston, TX)
85.81 (#62 OT) - Casey Phillips (Franklin, TX)
85.80 (#40 TE) - Christoph Henle (Arlington, TX)
85.62 (#65 OT) - Jackson Kimble (Southlake, TX)
85.40 (#134 WR) - Jackson Gleeson (Mansfield, TX)
84.94 (#79 ATH) - Mark Milton (Friendswood, TX)
84.67 (#96 OT) - Ylijaah Hall (Bryan, TX)
84.59 (#52 TE) - Ben Sims (San Antonio, TX)
84.52 (#90 S) - J.T. Woods (Cibolo, TX)
82.56 (#84 WDE) - Marje Smith (Marshall, TX)
78.03 (#5 P) - Issac Power (Parker, CO)

PLAYERS THAT WE APPEAR TO AT LEAST STILL HAVE A SHOT AT
92.52 (#17 DT) - Christian Barmore (Philadelphia, PA)
92.30 (#37 WR) - Tommy Bush (Schertz, TX)
91.34 (#11 DT QB) - Gerry Bohanon (Earle, AR)
89.97 (#25 S) - Cam'ron Jones (Mansfield, TX)
89.88 (#50 WR) - Tyquan Thornton (Miami, FL)
89.58 (#54 WR) - Miles Battle (Houston, TX)
89.41 (#16 ATH) - B.J. Hanspard (DeSoto, TX)
88.63 (#20 ATH) - Daevon Robinson (Medford, NJ)
87.78 (#2 JC OG) - Johncarlo Valentin (ASA College-New York)

A Texas school needs to always have the majority of it's recruits from TX, but it's kind of nice having this little pipeline in NJ. So far, the kids we've gotten from NJ have panned out pretty well (Harrison Hand, John Lovett). Think Saulin will end up being a big boy that can get on OL or DL pending on what he wants to do.

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BIG 12 TEAMS COMMITS COMPOSITE RATINGS

OVERALL AVERAGE
93.17 - Texas (18)
90.08 - Oklahoma (20)
87.34 - TCU (20)
86.44 - West Virginia (21)
86.38 - Oklahoma State (21)
86.34 - Kansas (10)
86.00 - Baylor (19)
84.23 - Kansas State (10)
84.13 - Texas Tech (19)
83.92 - Iowa State (18)

TOP 10 AVERAGE
96.25 - Texas
93.07 - Oklahoma
89.39 - TCU
88.55 - West Virginia
88.19 - Oklahoma State
87.78 - Baylor
86.34 - Kansas
85.85 - Texas Tech
85.67 - Iowa State
84.23 - Kansas State

Mothra said:

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I keep seeing how many of the Rhule supporters are touting what a great recruiter Rhule is and how well he's done thus far, but wonder about such claims. The class currently has 1 committed 4 star out of 19 commits and is ranked 6th in the Big 12. That doesn't seem so great when compared to recent classes. So what is the basis for this claim? Is it because no one expected us to recruit so well given how bad the season went and because of the scandal? Is it because some are anticipating some highly ranked recruits to commit in the near future? What is it?

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It is the fastest class of all time. Didn't you hear that............

Boatshoes said:

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Mothra said:

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I keep seeing how many of the Rhule supporters are touting what a great recruiter Rhule is and how well he's done thus far, but wonder about such claims. The class currently has 1 committed 4 star out of 19 commits and is ranked 6th in the Big 12. That doesn't seem so great when compared to recent classes. So what is the basis for this claim? Is it because no one expected us to recruit so well given how bad the season went and because of the scandal? Is it because some are anticipating some highly ranked recruits to commit in the near future? What is it?

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It is because the talking points demand they support him. At such time when the talking points demand they not support him, their opions will change. The bottom line to their pronouncements about everything: "Baylor is always right."

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Kim Jong-Un for BOR. He would fit in nicely.

87.34 - TCU (20)
86.44 - West Virginia (21)
86.38 - Oklahoma State (21)
86.34 - Kansas (10)
86.00 - Baylor (19)

Really these average composite scores are so close they might as well all be tied for third.

UT and OU as usual are separated from the pack, then there are a few stragglers well behind.

Get Bohannon and slip ahead of KU, WVU and OSU technically anyway.

Texasjeremy said:

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BIG 12 TEAMS COMMITS COMPOSITE RATINGS

OVERALL AVERAGE
93.17 - Texas (18)
90.08 - Oklahoma (20)
87.34 - TCU (20)
86.44 - West Virginia (21)
86.38 - Oklahoma State (21)
86.34 - Kansas (10)
86.00 - Baylor (19)
84.23 - Kansas State (10)
84.13 - Texas Tech (19)
83.92 - Iowa State (18)

TOP 10 AVERAGE
96.25 - Texas
93.07 - Oklahoma
89.39 - TCU
88.55 - West Virginia
88.19 - Oklahoma State
87.78 - Baylor
86.34 - Kansas
85.85 - Texas Tech
85.67 - Iowa State
84.23 - Kansas State

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Kansas has a higher composite average than us? Wow. I know they only have 10 recruits, but still.

Looks like we finish no better than 6th in the conference unless we make up some ground the next few days.

Texasjeremy said:

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BIG 12 TEAMS COMMITS COMPOSITE RATINGS

OVERALL AVERAGE
93.17 - Texas (18)
90.08 - Oklahoma (20)
87.34 - TCU (20)
86.44 - West Virginia (21)
86.38 - Oklahoma State (21)
86.34 - Kansas (10)
86.00 - Baylor (19)
84.23 - Kansas State (10)
84.13 - Texas Tech (19)
83.92 - Iowa State (18)

TOP 10 AVERAGE
96.25 - Texas
93.07 - Oklahoma
89.39 - TCU
88.55 - West Virginia
88.19 - Oklahoma State
87.78 - Baylor
86.34 - Kansas
85.85 - Texas Tech
85.67 - Iowa State
84.23 - Kansas State

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Just curious where you got these composite rankings from?

I'm no Rule fan but on paper his recruiting has been impressive.

Mothra said:

---

Texasjeremy said:

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BIG 12 TEAMS COMMITS COMPOSITE RATINGS

OVERALL AVERAGE
93.17 - Texas (18)
90.08 - Oklahoma (20)
87.34 - TCU (20)
86.44 - West Virginia (21)
86.38 - Oklahoma State (21)
86.34 - Kansas (10)
86.00 - Baylor (19)
84.23 - Kansas State (10)
84.13 - Texas Tech (19)
83.92 - Iowa State (18)

TOP 10 AVERAGE
96.25 - Texas
93.07 - Oklahoma
89.39 - TCU
88.55 - West Virginia
88.19 - Oklahoma State
87.78 - Baylor
86.34 - Kansas
85.85 - Texas Tech
85.67 - Iowa State
84.23 - Kansas State

---

Kansas has a higher composite average than us? Wow. I know they only have 10 recruits, but still.

Looks like we finish no better than 6th in the conference unless we make up some ground the next few days.

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If we finish within a point of TCU -- or even ahead by .01 -- I think we can all agree that Rhule is a Magician of the Highest Order when it comes to recruiting talented kids.

great recruiting classes do not guarantee success, and 6th ranked (or wherever we end up) should not be judged based on rankings either.

Briles 2008 class (51st in the country/8th Big 12 https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2008/all-teams/football) full of 2 and 3 stars that ended up including RG3, Kendall Wright, Terrance Williams, and Nick Florence. the following class (55th/7th https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2009/all-teams/football) had Cyril Richardson, Tevin Reese, Josh Gordon, Bryce Petty, and several others who contributed to 2 Big 12 titles. Baylor site lists Ganaway too.

this is not how to evaluate anything. the games have to be played. following recruiting lists is not a fruitful venture, other than being at the very top or very bottom might have some significance.

year 1 returns were very poor, though there are some signs for optimism - competitive against a playoff team ou, competitive in some other games, did dominate a road conference win vs someone...even kansas, and many players to return.

add some transfers too. these should be accounted for, as they have to choose Baylor too. Hurd, Clemson OL, aggy DL, and one other at least I believe.

recruiting is judged on the field. Rhule does has a track record of uncovering NFL-level players even...at Temple too. and some young players performed already in what were very difficult circumstances for the prior class.

do something more productive than debate this until we see the games...please.

Good is a relative term.


Good in comparison to other middle of the rung programs who also live off 3 stars? Yeah.

Good compared to this year's Final 4, where only OU has less than 50% of the team comprised of 4 stars and 5 stars? (Note OU was at 45%, which isn't too shabby itself)

Norman Dale said:

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great recruiting classes do not guarantee success, and 6th ranked (or wherever we end up) should not be judged based on rankings either.

Briles 2008 class (51st in the country/8th Big 12 https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2008/all-teams/football) full of 2 and 3 stars that ended up including RG3, Kendall Wright, Terrance Williams, and Nick Florence. the following class (55th/7th https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2009/all-teams/football) had Cyril Richardson, Tevin Reese, Josh Gordon, Bryce Petty, and several others who contributed to 2 Big 12 titles. Baylor site lists Ganaway too.

this is not how to evaluate anything. the games have to be played. following recruiting lists is not a fruitful venture, other than being at the very top or very bottom might have some significance.

year 1 returns were very poor, though there are some signs for optimism - competitive against a playoff team ou, competitive in some other games, did dominate a road conference win vs someone...even kansas, and many players to return.

add some transfers too. these should be accounted for, as they have to choose Baylor too. Hurd, Clemson OL, aggy DL, and one other at least I believe.

recruiting is judged on the field. Rhule does has a track record of uncovering NFL-level players even...at Temple too. and some young players performed already in what were very difficult circumstances for the prior class.

do something more productive than debate this until we see the games...please.

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Perhaps you didn't realize this, but the evidence shows that recruiting rankings DO matter, as the schools winning nattys and playing in the playoffs consist of some of the highest rated recruits in the country, as others have pointed out on this thread. I am glad that Briles was able to find diamonds in the rough and develop them, but that is not a formula for success if we are looking to surpass what Briles accomplished. If the goal is to win 6-7 games a season and attend a bowl, certainly such recruiting classes will suffice. Perhaps that is now the goal.

Mothra said:

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Norman Dale said:

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great recruiting classes do not guarantee success, and 6th ranked (or wherever we end up) should not be judged based on rankings either.

Briles 2008 class (51st in the country/8th Big 12 https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2008/all-teams/football) full of 2 and 3 stars that ended up including RG3, Kendall Wright, Terrance Williams, and Nick Florence. the following class (55th/7th https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2009/all-teams/football) had Cyril Richardson, Tevin Reese, Josh Gordon, Bryce Petty, and several others who contributed to 2 Big 12 titles. Baylor site lists Ganaway too.

this is not how to evaluate anything. the games have to be played. following recruiting lists is not a fruitful venture, other than being at the very top or very bottom might have some significance.

year 1 returns were very poor, though there are some signs for optimism - competitive against a playoff team ou, competitive in some other games, did dominate a road conference win vs someone...even kansas, and many players to return.

add some transfers too. these should be accounted for, as they have to choose Baylor too. Hurd, Clemson OL, aggy DL, and one other at least I believe.

recruiting is judged on the field. Rhule does has a track record of uncovering NFL-level players even...at Temple too. and some young players performed already in what were very difficult circumstances for the prior class.

do something more productive than debate this until we see the games...please.

---

Perhaps you didn't realize this, but the evidence shows that recruiting rankings DO matter, as the schools winning nattys and playing in the playoffs consist of some of the highest rated recruits in the country, as others have pointed out on this thread. I am glad that Briles was able to find diamonds in the rough and develop them, but that is not a formula for success if we are looking to surpass what Briles accomplished. If the goal is to win 6-7 games a season and attend a bowl, certainly such recruiting classes will suffice. Perhaps that is now the goal.

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perhaps you did not know this but...did you read the post? it is full of facts. and related to the prior coach's recruiting that is part of this discussion.

we had a Heisman winner and all the players I listed above in classes ranked worse that this one. can you see the future? can you guarantee that this class is rated fairly, and those were not?

no, you cant. sorry for the smart reply, but it was in response to your smart reply. the classes I pointed out won Big 12 titles, they did not win 6-7 games.

Norman Dale said:

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great recruiting classes do not guarantee success, and 6th ranked (or wherever we end up) should not be judged based on rankings either.

Briles 2008 class (51st in the country/8th Big 12 https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2008/all-teams/football) full of 2 and 3 stars that ended up including RG3, Kendall Wright, Terrance Williams, and Nick Florence. the following class (55th/7th https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2009/all-teams/football) had Cyril Richardson, Tevin Reese, Josh Gordon, Bryce Petty, and several others who contributed to 2 Big 12 titles. Baylor site lists Ganaway too.

this is not how to evaluate anything. the games have to be played. following recruiting lists is not a fruitful venture, other than being at the very top or very bottom might have some significance.

year 1 returns were very poor, though there are some signs for optimism - competitive against a playoff team ou, competitive in some other games, did dominate a road conference win vs someone...even kansas, and many players to return.

add some transfers too. these should be accounted for, as they have to choose Baylor too. Hurd, Clemson OL, aggy DL, and one other at least I believe.

recruiting is judged on the field. Rhule does has a track record of uncovering NFL-level players even...at Temple too. and some young players performed already in what were very difficult circumstances for the prior class.

do something more productive than debate this until we see the games...please.

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1. There is a direct correlation between recruiting ranking and winning national titles/winning in the playoffs. Recruiting ranks absolutely matter.

2. Just because Briles was able to have that kind of success doesn't mean others are able to or will be able to. Not many people can turn that level of talent into a couple of Big 12 championships.

3. Coaching is judged on the field.

RealLarryDon said:

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Good is a relative term.


Good in comparison to other middle of the rung programs who also live off 3 stars? Yeah.

Good compared to this year's Final 4, where only OU has less than 50% of the team comprised of 4 stars and 5 stars? (Note OU was at 45%, which isn't too shabby itself)

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It's on paper as good as anything Baylor has seen in the last decade...minus the imploded 2016 class.

Norman Dale said:

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Mothra said:

---

Norman Dale said:

---

great recruiting classes do not guarantee success, and 6th ranked (or wherever we end up) should not be judged based on rankings either.

Briles 2008 class (51st in the country/8th Big 12 https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2008/all-teams/football) full of 2 and 3 stars that ended up including RG3, Kendall Wright, Terrance Williams, and Nick Florence. the following class (55th/7th https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2009/all-teams/football) had Cyril Richardson, Tevin Reese, Josh Gordon, Bryce Petty, and several others who contributed to 2 Big 12 titles. Baylor site lists Ganaway too.

this is not how to evaluate anything. the games have to be played. following recruiting lists is not a fruitful venture, other than being at the very top or very bottom might have some significance.

year 1 returns were very poor, though there are some signs for optimism - competitive against a playoff team ou, competitive in some other games, did dominate a road conference win vs someone...even kansas, and many players to return.

add some transfers too. these should be accounted for, as they have to choose Baylor too. Hurd, Clemson OL, aggy DL, and one other at least I believe.

recruiting is judged on the field. Rhule does has a track record of uncovering NFL-level players even...at Temple too. and some young players performed already in what were very difficult circumstances for the prior class.

do something more productive than debate this until we see the games...please.

---

Perhaps you didn't realize this, but the evidence shows that recruiting rankings DO matter, as the schools winning nattys and playing in the playoffs consist of some of the highest rated recruits in the country, as others have pointed out on this thread. I am glad that Briles was able to find diamonds in the rough and develop them, but that is not a formula for success if we are looking to surpass what Briles accomplished. If the goal is to win 6-7 games a season and attend a bowl, certainly such recruiting classes will suffice. Perhaps that is now the goal.

---

perhaps you did not know this but...did you read the post? it is full of facts. and related to the prior coach's recruiting that is part of this discussion.

we had a Heisman winner and all the players I listed above in classes ranked worse that this one. can you see the future? can you guarantee that this class is rated fairly, and those were not?

no, you cant. sorry for the smart reply, but it was in response to your smart reply. the classes I pointed out won Big 12 titles, they did not win 6-7 games.

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You are correct in that talent evaluation goes beyond recruitment star chasing.

The inverse of the superb talent evaluations you cite can be seen played out in the imploded 2016 class, where many unknown or underperforming or even incarcerated quantities have unfolded despite being the highest ranked class of the Briles era...perhaps of Baylor history too.