OsoCoreyell said:

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Tommy_Lou_Ramsower said:

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OsoCoreyell said:

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There has been a lot of ink spilled talking about the "culture" inside universities that covers this stuff up. That is an appropriate line of questioning.

But at what point do we start to seriously look at the moral culture of the athletes. After all, it isn't as if the coaches are making them do this stuff. They're just trying to cover it up afterwards or shield their players from the consequences. How have these kids been raised such that they view women as disposable sexual objects?

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Unfortunately, athletes might only be a reflection of the much larger student body across universities in the country and perhaps around the world. Athletes simply have a lot more of a spotlight on them most of the time. I unfortunately know plenty of women (and men!) who have felt like they were used as disposable sexual objects in their late teens and early twenties.

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Probably true. Is it that everyone is misbehaving sexually in this way and that college athletics just presents a unique circumstance where there are adults who are so strongly financially incentivized to shield the students from the consequences of their conduct?

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There's also probably more sexual opportunity for athletes than the average student, and they're accustomed to an amount of preferential treatment (possibly for the entirety of their young lives) that breeds a sense of entitlement about some of their behavior.

this has more similarities to the Bliss scandal. if they had found Deneheys body sooner..there wouldn't have been FBI investigating his finances..

If not for Nassar...

MilliVanilli said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Who knew what lied ahead...

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BaylorProud77 said:

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Well I can't believe these things go on anywhere else besides Baylor! Little low life Baylor. The school targeted and talked about endlessly. What do you think should happen to MSU Paul Finnbaumn? ESPN is just shocked! Can't believe it!

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You're going to hear about how well the school has responded to these horrible things vs how Baylor responded, ignoring how the crimes committed are 100 times worse.

Stewart Mandel, now the Editor in Chief of The All-American, previously at Fox when he posted scathing column after column about Baylor and Briles.


"To be clear, Dantonio is not accused at this time of covering up accusations in the manner of disgraced former Baylor coach Art Briles. In fact, Paula Lavigne writes, "It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about" the previously unreported incidents."




So, it's okay for Dantonio to "not be in the know" but there's no way Briles didn't know every single piece of information regarding every situation, at least that was what he claimed in his Baylor articles.

boognish_bear said:

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Who knew what lied ahead...

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The 2015 Title IX Bowl trophy.

RealLarryDon said:

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Stewart Mandel, now the Editor in Chief of The All-American, previously at Fox when he posted scathing column after column about Baylor and Briles.

"To be clear, Dantonio is not accused at this time of covering up accusations in the manner of disgraced former Baylor coach Art Briles. In fact, Paula Lavigne writes, "It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about" the previously unreported incidents."




So, it's okay for Dantonio to "not be in the know" but there's no way Briles didn't know every single piece of information regarding every situation, at least that was what he claimed in his Baylor articles.

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What is the All-American?

DioNoZeus said:

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RealLarryDon said:

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Stewart Mandel, now the Editor in Chief of The All-American, previously at Fox when he posted scathing column after column about Baylor and Briles.

"To be clear, Dantonio is not accused at this time of covering up accusations in the manner of disgraced former Baylor coach Art Briles. In fact, Paula Lavigne writes, "It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about" the previously unreported incidents."




So, it's okay for Dantonio to "not be in the know" but there's no way Briles didn't know every single piece of information regarding every situation, at least that was what he claimed in his Baylor articles.

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What is the All-American?

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All the ESPN, FOX, CBS and other firees from last summer started a national online sports paper called The All American back in the fall.

RealLarryDon said:

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DioNoZeus said:

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RealLarryDon said:

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Stewart Mandel, now the Editor in Chief of The All-American, previously at Fox when he posted scathing column after column about Baylor and Briles.

"To be clear, Dantonio is not accused at this time of covering up accusations in the manner of disgraced former Baylor coach Art Briles. In fact, Paula Lavigne writes, "It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about" the previously unreported incidents."




So, it's okay for Dantonio to "not be in the know" but there's no way Briles didn't know every single piece of information regarding every situation, at least that was what he claimed in his Baylor articles.

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What is the All-American?

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All the ESPN, FOX, CBS and other firees from last summer started a national online sports paper called The All American back in the fall.

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Exactly

MilliVanilli said:

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adambear said:

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Hmm, has MSU been making a habit lately of beating the flagship school in the state ....

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MSU is a huge state school with just as much power as Michigan, they've been natty title contenders here and there over the years, they're not exactly Texas Tech, truthfully they're not even A&M, they're more like Auburn is to Bama.

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They're not the same as Michigan in the grander sense. Forget who wins games, etc. Michigan runs that state.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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adambear said:

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Hmm, has MSU been making a habit lately of beating the flagship school in the state ....

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MSU is a huge state school with just as much power as Michigan, they've been natty title contenders here and there over the years, they're not exactly Texas Tech, truthfully they're not even A&M, they're more like Auburn is to Bama.

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They're not the same as Michigan in the grander sense. Forget who wins games, etc. Michigan runs that state.

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They literally are the aggy of Michigan, from their little brother complex to their origin as an agricultural school.

Furthermore:

Ann Arbor : Austin :: East Lansing : Sheep Humper Central

Gentlemen, let us not suffer from this delusion that MSU will get the ballpeen hammer treatment from the national media. The fact that Baylor holds itself to be a Christian oriented school is just too inviting a target and storyline for them to ignore. Mark D'Antinio and Tom Izzo will be coaching there until they're done with coaching. Plus too many MSU alums are in Michigan politics. An AD and university presidents are easy scapegoats; good coaches are damn hard to find.

Chanceux said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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boognish_bear said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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After reading that story, it's almost unbelievable how much trouble MSU has gone to to conceal things from the public and from journalistic inquiries. What is being found is really really bad. I wonder just how much similar stuff would be found at Baylor if Baylor were required to release information the way public schools are.

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Crazy thing is all of this would have probably stayed swept under the rug forever if it had not been for the Larry Nassar bomb going off

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That is so unbelievably true. I know we say that stuff in Waco happens everywhere, but man, I hope stuff like this isn't happening everywhere like this. It's really scary to think about it.

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Make no mistake, Bob Stoops stepped down pre-emptively because this type of time bomb is waiting in Norman too, and with he and Boren exiting ahead of it they can pretend they already cleaned house and leave the program otherwise unscathed.

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I know that is the rumor, but the human being inside of me really hopes that isn't the case. I mean, if this is really happening like this on all of these college campuses, how can anyone feel safe sending their daughter anywhere?

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You hope OU doesn't get punished for sweeping stuff under the rug? I'm bout at the point where I wanna see every school burn. The piling on and hyperbolic bullmess that Baylor and its alums had to endure for what happened here is more than enough to gleefully watch other schools get the same ball peen hammer treatment.

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No, what I mean is that I really hope that it isn't true that all these universities are purposefully treating victims in such a malicious and callous way. But if it is true, then yes, I want them punished to kingdom come.

By comparison, our fans wore black #CAB shirts.

whitetrash said:

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PartyBear said:

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What am I missing here? Everything in that audio involved football coaches being put on notice about sexual assaults in the late 90s-early 00s. Dantonio wasnt at Mich St until 2007. This would be like firing Briles because some of Steele's assistants were told things and Steele did nothing about it.

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Head coach at MSU from 1995-99: Nick Saban

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Did Saban have any female athletes playing for him?

RealLarryDon said:

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Stewart Mandel, now the Editor in Chief of The All-American, previously at Fox when he posted scathing column after column about Baylor and Briles.

What a goddam spare. Glad he's at a tiny no talent website.


"To be clear, Dantonio is not accused at this time of covering up accusations in the manner of disgraced former Baylor coach Art Briles. In fact, Paula Lavigne writes, "It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about" the previously unreported incidents."




So, it's okay for Dantonio to "not be in the know" but there's no way Briles didn't know every single piece of information regarding every situation, at least that was what he claimed in his Baylor articles.

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chukronos said:

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By comparison, our fans wore black #CAB shirts.

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I'm not defending the #CAB shirts...but to be fair...their coaches haven't been fired yet. Let's wait and see how their fan base reacts if they do get fired.

The Baylor students also had rallies on their campus in support of the victims.

boognish_bear said:

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Malbec said:

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Notice how BT hopes there is a "massive list of people being fired" rather than hoping that any wrongdoing is confined to as few people as possible.

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Not bad; not bad at all.

ColomboLQ said:

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boognish_bear said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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After reading that story, it's almost unbelievable how much trouble MSU has gone to to conceal things from the public and from journalistic inquiries. What is being found is really really bad. I wonder just how much similar stuff would be found at Baylor if Baylor were required to release information the way public schools are.

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Crazy thing is all of this would have probably stayed swept under the rug forever if it had not been for the Larry Nassar bomb going off

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That is so unbelievably true. I know we say that stuff in Waco happens everywhere, but man, I hope stuff like this isn't happening everywhere like this. It's really scary to think about it.

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Espn transition is full steam ahead. Just not enough sports news to sustain it's past success, so investigative reporting is now cash cow. Bob Ley was selling, selling, selling. And we're all watching. Bombs away.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/26/michigan-state-beekman-replace-lou-anna-simon-while-board-interim-president-msu-larry-nassar/1069476001

Wonder if he is calling Garland for advice...

RealLarryDon said:

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DioNoZeus said:

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RealLarryDon said:

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Stewart Mandel, now the Editor in Chief of The All-American, previously at Fox when he posted scathing column after column about Baylor and Briles.

"To be clear, Dantonio is not accused at this time of covering up accusations in the manner of disgraced former Baylor coach Art Briles. In fact, Paula Lavigne writes, "It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about" the previously unreported incidents."




So, it's okay for Dantonio to "not be in the know" but there's no way Briles didn't know every single piece of information regarding every situation, at least that was what he claimed in his Baylor articles.

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What is the All-American?

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All the ESPN, FOX, CBS and other firees from last summer started a national online sports paper called The All American back in the fall.

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Of course they did. Sports reporting ain't gonna pay the bills any longer.

OsoCoreyell said:

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If you think little Baylor and Big MSU are the only places that have these issues, you are completely crazy. In the long run, Note so far that ESPN's rage (and investigative efforts) have been limited to schools that it does not have a financial interest in propping up (Baylor - FOX, MSU - BIG Network). We'll see if they have the nerve and integrity to go after SEC. You know this stuff is happening there.

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This is what happens when you're hind tit in a state.

MilliVanilli said:

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HuMcK said:

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I'd put good odds on Dantonio not being their opening-day HC in 2018, based on some of the allegations in the espn article. I wonder, after what happened to us and now them, what kind of avalanche might be building.

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It would be just if we were not made the example. Our sin is being no better than most programs in handling this stuff, not for being worse.

You can throw a dart at the SEC or Big 10 and to Austin, Ft. Worth and Norman and find comparable grime under the table to what our fired regime did.

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You are the epitome of the Bubble.

Judge said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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HuMcK said:

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I'd put good odds on Dantonio not being their opening-day HC in 2018, based on some of the allegations in the espn article. I wonder, after what happened to us and now them, what kind of avalanche might be building.

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It would be just if we were not made the example. Our sin is being no better than most programs in handling this stuff, not for being worse.

You can throw a dart at the SEC or Big 10 and to Austin, Ft. Worth and Norman and find comparable grime under the table to what our fired regime did.

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You are the epitome of the Bubble.

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You're the epitome of senility.

This is going to get even bigger, it's starting to go in unpredictable directions and even blowing back on the NCAA now...

https://theathletic.com/223555/2018/01/26/ncaa-president-mark-emmert-was-alerted-to-michigan-state-sexual-assault-reports-in-2010/

NCAA president Mark Emmert was alerted to Michigan State sexual assault reports in 2010

Though the NCAA has announced its intention to open an investigation into Michigan State's athletic department, it remains unclear what exactly the purview of the investigation would be.

And, more importantly, why it's taken so long to get involved.

NCAA president Mark Emmert was specifically alerted in November 2010 six months after he was hired as the organization's president to 37 reports involving Michigan State athletes sexually assaulting women.

Kathy Redmond, the founder of the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes, provided The Athletic with a copy of the letter she sent to Emmert urging him to better protect women with new, stronger gender violence policy measures.

In the letter, which was sent after Redmond and Emmert met in person in Indianapolis to discuss the topic, she specifically highlighted concerns about Michigan State. Emmert was unavailable for comment to The Athletic on Friday afternoon.

Here is the fourth paragraph of Redmond's letter, which is dated November 17, 2010:

For example, despite recent reports of sexual violence involving two Michigan State University (MSU) basketball players, one of which admitted to raping the victim, neither man was charged criminally or even disciplined by the school. An earlier report of similar violence involving two other MSU basketball players also went un-redressed. In the past two years alone, 37 reports of sexual assault by MSU athletes have been reported, but not one disciplinary sanction was imposed by school officials against any of the men involved.

"Mark Emmert was brand new, and he'd initially said, 'One sexual assault is one too many,' " Redmond told The Athletic on Friday. "As soon as I heard that, I thought I might have an ally."

That is what prompted Redmond to reach out in the first place. Emmert responded positively, welcoming her to Indianapolis for what would ultimately be a 90-minute meeting that she attended alongside Wendy Murphy, a nationally recognized legal expert on the topic. They spent that time pushing Emmert to make it clear that sexual violence will not be tolerated; they went through data and policy initiatives to back up their points. They wanted a written policy, guidelines, corrective actions, possible sanctions any and all ways the NCAA could exert itself as a leader in the area.

At the meeting, Redmond said she specifically mentioned concerns about Michigan State president Lou Anna K. Simon at the time a member of the Division I Board of Governors and her university's handling of the police report a woman filed accusing the two basketball players Keith Appling and Adreian Payne of sexual assault.

Ingham County prosecutors declined to press charges, though the victim said she was told by campus police at the time that it seemed like a strong case to pursue because of Payne's interview with the police, which included Payne saying he could "understand how she would feel that she was not free to leave." There were on-campus protests when it became clear that both athletes would remain in school and on the basketball team with no punishment from the school or athletic department.

Redmond said she also sent copies of her letter to the members of the Board of Governors, including Simon.

"What I really got from the experience with Mark Emmert was, that governing body governs him," Redmond said. "He met with me, which was great and I appreciated that. But the governing board has an awful lot of power. It's a strange setup. You do kind of get the fox guarding the hen house mentality. You do feel like the NCAA doesn't like to do investigations because they like their relationships (with university officials and conferences). I think Mark Emmert came in with the right tone but quickly realized, 'There's not a lot I can do here.' "

On Tuesday night, the NCAA sent Michigan State a letter of inquiry, formally opening an investigation into the university's handling of Larry Nassar, the former Michigan State and USA Gymnastics doctor sentenced this week to up to 175 years in prison for sexually abusing girls and women over a period of decades.

Amid increasing calls for her firing, Simon resigned Wednesday night. Michigan State athletics director Mark Hollis resigned Friday morning, hours before ESPN's Outside the Lines published an investigative report Friday outlining more than a dozen sexual assault cases involving members of the football and men's basketball teams, including the Appling-Payne case, that went unpunished.

And now, the NCAA will enter the picture.

"What are they going to look at, exactly?" Redmond said. "We know they haven't complied with federal law. They haven't been helpful with investigations, we know that. Mark Emmert, when he met with me, said the NCAA can't be 'state actors.' So, what is the policy that he's going for? Or is he looking to create a different one?"

Still, Redmond said she fully supports the NCAA getting involved at Michigan State now and, in particular, probing the welfare and safety of female athletes treated by Nassar. She hopes the NCAA can help and listen to others, even if it hasn't listened to her policy ideas or her warnings in the past.

"They shouldn't ignore the whistleblowers, or dismiss them," Redmond said. "And they've done that."

ColomboLQ said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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boognish_bear said:

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ColomboLQ said:

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After reading that story, it's almost unbelievable how much trouble MSU has gone to to conceal things from the public and from journalistic inquiries. What is being found is really really bad. I wonder just how much similar stuff would be found at Baylor if Baylor were required to release information the way public schools are.

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Crazy thing is all of this would have probably stayed swept under the rug forever if it had not been for the Larry Nassar bomb going off

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That is so unbelievably true. I know we say that stuff in Waco happens everywhere, but man, I hope stuff like this isn't happening everywhere like this. It's really scary to think about it.

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Make no mistake, Bob Stoops stepped down pre-emptively because this type of time bomb is waiting in Norman too, and with he and Boren exiting ahead of it they can pretend they already cleaned house and leave the program otherwise unscathed.

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I know that is the rumor, but the human being inside of me really hopes that isn't the case. I mean, if this is really happening like this on all of these college campuses, how can anyone feel safe sending their daughter anywhere?

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I agree. It's why we need to mind our own house first, that's what we can control.

And why I've been so insistent that people not be flippant about what had to be done.

It was ugly and horrid, and we weren't the first, the last or only program with problems, but we seem to have been the first to say integrity matters, and I'm not saying we should pat ourselves on the back for that, but it is hopeful sign that our standards are higher and that when we fail we admit it.

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I think you will find everyone will agree with you on the first highlighted part. But there simply is no way you are going to get agreement from everyone on the second.

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It is a shame that the second statement isn't true. Considering that we have two title IX federal lawsuits that were filed in 2017, Baylor still lacks the integrity that matters. Both of the lawsuits are by former title IX employees of Baylor. Both accuse the COO and the police department of blocking and covering up all sexual assault cases. That includes football players, students and the silver spoon crowd. According to the lawsuits, the COO told both title IX employees to stop investing the accusations because it would tarnish the image of Baylor. So much for integrity or this being over.

OsoCoreyell said:

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There has been a lot of ink spilled talking about the "culture" inside universities that covers this stuff up. That is an appropriate line of questioning.

But at what point do we start to seriously look at the moral culture of the athletes. After all, it isn't as if the coaches are making them do this stuff. They're just trying to cover it up afterwards or shield their players from the consequences. How have these kids been raised such that they view women as disposable sexual objects?

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It is not just the athletes, it is a lot of the student body as a whole. But your absolutely right, the students today are not the same caliber individuals that attended 40 years ago.

I am hearing that there is a high probability that former Vice President Dick Cheney was involved in an alleged coverup at Michigan State.

Anybody ever wonder why lawyers tell you not to talk to police, or give interviews to law enforcement?
_______________

"For example, despite recent reports of sexual violence involving two Michigan State University (MSU) basketball players, one of which admitted to raping the victim, neither man was charged criminally or even disciplined by the school. An earlier report of similar violence involving two other MSU basketball players also went un-redressed. In the past two years alone, 37 reports of sexual assault by MSU athletes have been reported, but not one disciplinary sanction was imposed by school officials against any of the men involved.

... Payne's interview with the police, which included Payne saying he could "understand how she would feel that she was not free to leave." There were on-campus protests when it became clear that both athletes would remain in school and on the basketball team with no punishment from the school or athletic department.
________________

Equating the understanding about how someone might feel or think with an admission of guilt is a U-turn from common sense and ultimately fairness. Selling a false narrative is never going to make things right. If you put a snake in a box labeled rabbits, it's still not going to have fur and legs.