BigOleBear said:

---

I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

---

The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

boognish_bear said:

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Good thread OP

My biggest concern with Rhule coming in were the possible issues with the "fish out of water" dynamics of him being from the northeast and a B1G type coach. Wasn't sure how Texas HS coaches would receive him or how his stated football philosophy would translate in the B12. As has been stated earlier he did a masterful job of filling out his staff with highly regarded coaches with deep Texas HS connections and cred.

Wins and losses will always be the ultimate measuring stick and I certainly have a lot of optimism in that area right now.

But in addition to leading a winning program CMR seems like the perfect fit for BU because it seems his faith is a big part of his make up. I'm not sure that some of those other coaches would bring that dynamic the way he does. It feels like the football corollary to Coach Drew.

He seems to aspire to the NFL....so we may not have him for too long if the winning continues....but he's really beginning to seem like the near perfect fit.

---

Thank you for the thoughtful post and getting things back on track. I completely agree.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

---

(Begin rant)

And for any members of the clickbait media reading this, let me be the first to say:

Choke yourself.

Do you own research. Come up with an original analysis of the Baylor program. Use facts and verifiable sources. If the theme is 'reeling from scandal,' you're wrong. The 'scandal' was a social media driven uproar and nothing approaching the level of what happened at Penn State. It was only a scandal to the degree that it threatened the balance of college football. Not saying there weren't problems and the firings weren't justified, but every program in U.S. college football has the problems that Baylor experienced. if there was any scandal IMO, it was in the way the university handled the cases.

If you copied the work of Texas Monthly, do us a favor and ask them to share their sources. We'd love to know the identify of the source that posted with an IP address from the U.K. with ONE post on the Baylor fans website that has yet to step forward and acknowledge their opinion since the article aired.

Details provided below:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/article/silence-at-baylor/

Ukwuachu's suspension for a violation of team rules, though rumors certainly indicated that some people on the school's campus knew which team rule Ukwuachu violated: Baylor fan boards included students telling each other things like "you're hearing the same things that I'm hearing and it's serious" and "If you like guys like Tevin Elliot[t], then you want Ukwuachu on this team." Yet still, it would seem no local reporters on the Baylor beat managed to make the trip to the downtown courthouse to type the name "Ukwuachu" to confirm if the rumors were true.

No person affiliated with this website or the predecessor has EVER corroborated the identities of the persons that made those comments. As I mentioned before, that post was made by a person with ONE post in their history from an IP address in the UK and it was pointed out immediately after it occurred. Yet it magically ended up as a key feature in the Texas Monthly article.

So if you want to write a post-Briles, new Rhule era story at Baylor, be careful about citing the work of Texas Monthly as fact. There are holes in the TM story that have yet to be validated, corroborated or proven true.

(/end rant)

---

It was either one of the usual suspects or a victim coordinating with Texas Monthly. Could have been both.

Johnny Bear said:

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My biggest question about CMR is whether or not he's going to hang around long enough at BU to get us back to CAB levels of success. His heavy duty flirting with the NFL during each of his first two off seasons at a minimum calls into question just how committed he is to this job beyond it being any more than a stepping stone. I get it that generally speaking it's common place for HC's to view their jobs similarly at most schools, but I also think that BU is or at least can be considered to be a "destination" job as well (IMO both Teaff and CAB, each of whom could have easily gone elsewhere during their BU careers, helped prove as much). We'll see what happens, but I'm not going to be surprised if CMR isn't our HC 2-3 seasons from now (if not sooner) by his choice.

---

As long as he leaves the program better than he found it....that's all we can ask for. Making it more attractive to another good coach. All coaches are hired guns. And schools treat them the same. They can be fired. Or they can leave. There are very few "lifers" anymore.

Dman said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

My biggest question about CMR is whether or not he's going to hang around long enough at BU to get us back to CAB levels of success. His heavy duty flirting with the NFL during each of his first two off seasons at a minimum calls into question just how committed he is to this job beyond it being any more than a stepping stone. I get it that generally speaking it's common place for HC's to view their jobs similarly at most schools, but I also think that BU is or at least can be considered to be a "destination" job as well (IMO both Teaff and CAB, each of whom could have easily gone elsewhere during their BU careers, helped prove as much). We'll see what happens, but I'm not going to be surprised if CMR isn't our HC 2-3 seasons from now (if not sooner) by his choice.

---

As long as he leaves the program better than he found it....that's all we can ask for. Making it more attractive to another good coach. All coaches are hired guns. And schools treat them the same. They can be fired. Or they can leave. There are very few "lifers" anymore.

---

Agreed.

DocCrowl said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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It would have been interesting to see an alternate timeline in which Lincoln Riley went to another program that wasn't already built up.

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To be fair, OU signed 0 top 10 classes from the 2011 class through the 2016 class (according to 247), so it would appear as though his arrival (as OC and subsequently as HC) had a significant positive impact on the quality of OU's roster.

---

Is it a function of Riley being hired, or Briles getting fired? Briles was getting guys UT and OU were both trying hard for in those years, and when Baylor was up and running there was a lot more parity between B12 schools. There was an upper echelon sure, but when somebody gives recruits a reason to consider more than just those two schools I think everyone in the conference benefits. I hope to see that again soon, I'm already sick of the "OU, UT, then everyone else" talk!

---

It's unclear what that argument could be based on. Baylor was never a significant threat to OU's ability to sign players.

Baylor's blue chip recruiting during that period according to 247:
2016: 1
2015: 3
2014: 3
2013: 4
2012: 4
2011: 0


Oklahoma's blue chip recruiting during that period according to 247:
2016: 10
2015: 10
2014: 9
2013: 8
2012: 12
2011: 11

There doesn't appear to be much of a correlation there given that OU signed 11 in 2011 and Baylor signed 0, and OU didn't really deviate much from that number even though Baylor increased from 0 to about 3.5. Further, let's look at what happened afterwards:

Baylor Blue Chips after that period according to 247:
2019: 2
2018: 6
2017: 0

Oklahoma Blue Chips after that period according to 247:
2019: 16
2018: 13
2017: 18

Takeways:
1. As a baseline, the 2011 recruiting cycle resulted in Baylor signing 0 blue chips and OU landing a class outside of the top 10, and, as Baylor's blue chips increased during the 2012-2015 period, OU's blue chip recruiting did not meaningfully deviate from the 11 blue chip number from 2011 (OU averaged 10 blue chips for 2011-2015 and then 15.67 from 2017-2019).
2. Looking into the 2011-2015 period, Baylor averaged 2.8 blue chips per class, and, in the 2017-2019 period, it averaged 2.67 blue chips per class - that's virtually the exact same number of blue chips. This means that any increase of blue chips by OU did not negatively impact Baylor's average.
3. If (1) and (2) are true, the most likely cause for OU's increase in recruiting is OU becoming more competitive with Texas A&M, Texas, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, and Georgia for recruits.

I was skeptical Day 1 and I had torch and pitchfork in hand after the first few games of year 1. Last year was a positive step and I think he can build a successful program here. We still have more room to go to get to what should be the new expectation for BU football which is competing for titles and winning them more than occasionally. Doesn't have to be the blue print that Briles left but it has been proven that the tools and opportunities are available here to win in a way that was previously unthinkable here.

As always, it will be one game at a time and one recruiting class at a time. This year we are a tough team to project. Could win anywhere from 6-9 games, IMO. After another year in this program, another recruiting class, and barring major injuries or departures, it's time to win 10+ games and show OU/UT who is really back...

So your saying Briles had us on top of the B12 without a large crop of blue chippers? Worth pondering....

Dman said:

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SATXBear said:

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chorne68 said:

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I was very impressed with how he came in and hired good coaches, including the Texas high school coaches. They recruited very well and I was very impressed by the athletes that came to Baylor. He said all the right things and was a great public speaker. Then...year number one started. He was a terrible coach that year. No way with the athletes on the team they should have lost 11 games to the poor competition. I did not think he could turn it around. They made progress in year two so I thought maybe he would be ok. I am now on the CMR team and think he can build a winning program. He has been good for Baylor.

---

Your mistake is thinking there was talent. There was no talent. The cupboard was empty.

---

We are fans. We give opinions. You state yours as a fact when claiming his is a "mistake", but it is simply an opinion. This is not an off base opinion...it's just an opinion difference than yours. Rhule is a big boy, even he said he had more talent than 1 win and should have done better. That's why many respected him. He's not his own sunshine pumper. This post represents many fans transitional mind set from doubt to support and thoughts on Rhule.

---

Why are you stalking me?

SATXBear said:

---

Dman said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

chorne68 said:

---

I was very impressed with how he came in and hired good coaches, including the Texas high school coaches. They recruited very well and I was very impressed by the athletes that came to Baylor. He said all the right things and was a great public speaker. Then...year number one started. He was a terrible coach that year. No way with the athletes on the team they should have lost 11 games to the poor competition. I did not think he could turn it around. They made progress in year two so I thought maybe he would be ok. I am now on the CMR team and think he can build a winning program. He has been good for Baylor.

---

Your mistake is thinking there was talent. There was no talent. The cupboard was empty.

---

We are fans. We give opinions. You state yours as a fact when claiming his is a "mistake", but it is simply an opinion. This is not an off base opinion...it's just an opinion difference than yours. Rhule is a big boy, even he said he had more talent than 1 win and should have done better. That's why many respected him. He's not his own sunshine pumper. This post represents many fans transitional mind set from doubt to support and thoughts on Rhule.

---

Why are you stalking me?

---

I liked the shirt you wore today,

Edit: sarcastic emoji needed /s

BUbearinARK said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

Dman said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

chorne68 said:

---

I was very impressed with how he came in and hired good coaches, including the Texas high school coaches. They recruited very well and I was very impressed by the athletes that came to Baylor. He said all the right things and was a great public speaker. Then...year number one started. He was a terrible coach that year. No way with the athletes on the team they should have lost 11 games to the poor competition. I did not think he could turn it around. They made progress in year two so I thought maybe he would be ok. I am now on the CMR team and think he can build a winning program. He has been good for Baylor.

---

Your mistake is thinking there was talent. There was no talent. The cupboard was empty.

---

We are fans. We give opinions. You state yours as a fact when claiming his is a "mistake", but it is simply an opinion. This is not an off base opinion...it's just an opinion difference than yours. Rhule is a big boy, even he said he had more talent than 1 win and should have done better. That's why many respected him. He's not his own sunshine pumper. This post represents many fans transitional mind set from doubt to support and thoughts on Rhule.

---

Why are you stalking me?

---

I liked the shirt you wore today,

Edit: sarcastic emoji needed /s

---

Meant to emoji a laugh. I have to give D man a hard time. It is what he likes...lol. Just messing with you D man.

SATXBear said:

---

BigOleBear said:

---

I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

---

The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

---

He was playing the best team for 2019 or 2020 but not the best team for 2016. If you disagree with that you need help because we wemt 1-11 with a team that literally everyone knows was a lot better than that and played a bunch of freshman in front of older players. He did the same at Temple. He wasn't trying to win as many games as possible that year but was playing for the future and somehow resetting expectations to the point where he got praised for equaling Grobe's results in his second year. I still don't understand how anyone let's that second part happen, and I'll forever be annoyed that he wasted a year of Baylor football but whatever.

He needs to win something that matters to be a "good" hire and that should be our expectation of every coach. If they can't finish in the top 10, win the conference, or some equivalent measure of success then we need to look at why and fix the problem. It could be the coach, facilities, or something else. So far he's won nothing but he's only had 2 seasons so that doesn't really matter yet. The jury should be out until he wins big or doesn't after 4-5 years or fails so badly before then the future result is clear and we cut ties early. As I stated earlier in the thread year 3 just began at give him time.

I don't see the second part happening so let's hope the first part happens! I'm ready for some good years again.

Chad Morris was offered. He wanted to play games so Baylor shut it down immediately.

Stan Mikita said:

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Chad Morris was offered. He wanted to play games so Baylor shut it down immediately.

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Morris was never offered. That was a diversion.

Krieg said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

BigOleBear said:

---

I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

---

The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

---

He was playing the best team for 2019 or 2020 but not the best team for 2016. If you disagree with that you need help because we wemt 1-11 with a team that literally everyone knows was a lot better than that and played a bunch of freshman in front of older players. He did the same at Temple. He wasn't trying to win as many games as possible that year but was playing for the future and somehow resetting expectations to the point where he got praised for equaling Grobe's results in his second year. I still don't understand how anyone let's that second part happen, and I'll forever be annoyed that he wasted a year of Baylor football but whatever.

He needs to win something that matters to be a "good" hire and that should be our expectation of every coach. If they can't finish in the top 10, win the conference, or some equivalent measure of success then we need to look at why and fix the problem. It could be the coach, facilities, or something else. So far he's won nothing but he's only had 2 seasons so that doesn't really matter yet. The jury should be out until he wins big or doesn't after 4-5 years or fails so badly before then the future result is clear and we cut ties early. As I stated earlier in the thread year 3 just began at give him time.

I don't see the second part happening so let's hope the first part happens! I'm ready for some good years again.

---

In 2017 there was very little talent left. Also, a lot of players did not fit his system and there were upper class men not buying in. Rhule had a 3-4 win team based on talent and only won one game in 2017. Rhule's coaching deficits the first year cost Baylor 2-3 wins at most, but now things are in place. As he said, trust the process. Guess you don't.

SATXBear said:

---

Krieg said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

BigOleBear said:

---

I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

---

The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

---

He was playing the best team for 2019 or 2020 but not the best team for 2016. If you disagree with that you need help because we wemt 1-11 with a team that literally everyone knows was a lot better than that and played a bunch of freshman in front of older players. He did the same at Temple. He wasn't trying to win as many games as possible that year but was playing for the future and somehow resetting expectations to the point where he got praised for equaling Grobe's results in his second year. I still don't understand how anyone let's that second part happen, and I'll forever be annoyed that he wasted a year of Baylor football but whatever.

He needs to win something that matters to be a "good" hire and that should be our expectation of every coach. If they can't finish in the top 10, win the conference, or some equivalent measure of success then we need to look at why and fix the problem. It could be the coach, facilities, or something else. So far he's won nothing but he's only had 2 seasons so that doesn't really matter yet. The jury should be out until he wins big or doesn't after 4-5 years or fails so badly before then the future result is clear and we cut ties early. As I stated earlier in the thread year 3 just began at give him time.

I don't see the second part happening so let's hope the first part happens! I'm ready for some good years again.

---

In 2017 there was very little talent left. Also, a lot of players did not fit his system and there were upper class men not buying in. Rhule had a 3-4 win team based on talent and only won one game in 2017. Rhule's coaching deficits the first year cost Baylor 2-3 wins at most, but now things are in place. As he said, trust the process. Guess you don't.

---

Right now, there are 8 defensive starters (9 if you count Jordan Williams) recruited by the former regime and 1 transfer. Other than James Lynch, where do you see where Rhule has upgraded the defensive talent? To me, this is discouraging after 3 years of Rhule recruiting to his system (which has now changed to a 3-man front).

Hopefully, there is a process in place. Right now, I just see a program that will bounce between 4/5 wins to 7/8 wins per year with the hope that some of the raw recruits will develop. So far, the player development of defense seems to be behind, if conference titles are the goal.

historian said:

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To be honest, it's too early to draw any real conclusions. This season could be the real turning point but we won't have any real idea until Iowa State comes to town and we may not have definitive answers until November.

---

This is the correct answer.

9-3 - Season good and Rhule looks like a great hire (lets remember the number of 10+ win seasons in program history.. its a small number).

6-6 - season a mild disappointment, looks like we are back where we "belong" according to some.

Less than 6 wins (seems almost impossible based on the schedule) - pitchforks will be out in force again.

I just hope at 2019 season's end our hindsight includes 10 wins!

And for the record my hindsight is 50/50 just like Cam's!

Timbear said:

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I was very encouraged by the SFA game not necessarily because of the score, but I thought the player development was evident on D, and even on O (Bohanon). I really believe the coaching staff will have their best year.

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Agree Tim

SATXBear said:

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lakersfan34 said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

Krieg said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

BigOleBear said:

---

I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

---

The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

---

He was playing the best team for 2019 or 2020 but not the best team for 2016. If you disagree with that you need help because we wemt 1-11 with a team that literally everyone knows was a lot better than that and played a bunch of freshman in front of older players. He did the same at Temple. He wasn't trying to win as many games as possible that year but was playing for the future and somehow resetting expectations to the point where he got praised for equaling Grobe's results in his second year. I still don't understand how anyone let's that second part happen, and I'll forever be annoyed that he wasted a year of Baylor football but whatever.

He needs to win something that matters to be a "good" hire and that should be our expectation of every coach. If they can't finish in the top 10, win the conference, or some equivalent measure of success then we need to look at why and fix the problem. It could be the coach, facilities, or something else. So far he's won nothing but he's only had 2 seasons so that doesn't really matter yet. The jury should be out until he wins big or doesn't after 4-5 years or fails so badly before then the future result is clear and we cut ties early. As I stated earlier in the thread year 3 just began at give him time.

I don't see the second part happening so let's hope the first part happens! I'm ready for some good years again.

---

In 2017 there was very little talent left. Also, a lot of players did not fit his system and there were upper class men not buying in. Rhule had a 3-4 win team based on talent and only won one game in 2017. Rhule's coaching deficits the first year cost Baylor 2-3 wins at most, but now things are in place. As he said, trust the process. Guess you don't.

---

Right now, there are 8 defensive starters (9 if you count Jordan Williams) recruited by the former regime and 1 transfer. Other than James Lynch, where do you see where Rhule has upgraded the defensive talent? To me, this is discouraging after 3 years of Rhule recruiting to his system (which has now changed to a 3-man front).

Hopefully, there is a process in place. Right now, I just see a program that will bounce between 4/5 wins to 7/8 wins per year with the hope that some of the raw recruits will develop. So far, the player development of defense seems to be behind, if conference titles are the goal.

---

Those players have been developed the last few years by Rhule. Do you not get it? That is how a system works. The freshman and sophomore recruits this year are also being developed. What is wrong with you?

---

My concern is that in year 3 I would have hoped to see an improvement in the defense. The last 2 years were statistically worse defensively than the previous regime. In order for a process to be successful, there should be some signs of measurable improvement. Improvement which can be measured in on-field performance or a projection were there are better alternatives in the pipeline. I didn't expect the best alternatives at one of the safety positions to be a converted corner or one of the better running backs on the team going into year 3 of the program.

The previous regime's defense was much aligned and rightfully so. Those deficiencies were masked by an extraordinary offense. I am just not sure the current process/direction with the defense will lead anywhere since the offense is not designed in the same manner.

lakersfan34 said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

lakersfan34 said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

Krieg said:

---

SATXBear said:

---

BigOleBear said:

---

I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

---

The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

---

He was playing the best team for 2019 or 2020 but not the best team for 2016. If you disagree with that you need help because we wemt 1-11 with a team that literally everyone knows was a lot better than that and played a bunch of freshman in front of older players. He did the same at Temple. He wasn't trying to win as many games as possible that year but was playing for the future and somehow resetting expectations to the point where he got praised for equaling Grobe's results in his second year. I still don't understand how anyone let's that second part happen, and I'll forever be annoyed that he wasted a year of Baylor football but whatever.

He needs to win something that matters to be a "good" hire and that should be our expectation of every coach. If they can't finish in the top 10, win the conference, or some equivalent measure of success then we need to look at why and fix the problem. It could be the coach, facilities, or something else. So far he's won nothing but he's only had 2 seasons so that doesn't really matter yet. The jury should be out until he wins big or doesn't after 4-5 years or fails so badly before then the future result is clear and we cut ties early. As I stated earlier in the thread year 3 just began at give him time.

I don't see the second part happening so let's hope the first part happens! I'm ready for some good years again.

---

In 2017 there was very little talent left. Also, a lot of players did not fit his system and there were upper class men not buying in. Rhule had a 3-4 win team based on talent and only won one game in 2017. Rhule's coaching deficits the first year cost Baylor 2-3 wins at most, but now things are in place. As he said, trust the process. Guess you don't.

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Right now, there are 8 defensive starters (9 if you count Jordan Williams) recruited by the former regime and 1 transfer. Other than James Lynch, where do you see where Rhule has upgraded the defensive talent? To me, this is discouraging after 3 years of Rhule recruiting to his system (which has now changed to a 3-man front).

Hopefully, there is a process in place. Right now, I just see a program that will bounce between 4/5 wins to 7/8 wins per year with the hope that some of the raw recruits will develop. So far, the player development of defense seems to be behind, if conference titles are the goal.

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Those players have been developed the last few years by Rhule. Do you not get it? That is how a system works. The freshman and sophomore recruits this year are also being developed. What is wrong with you?

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My concern is that in year 3 I would have hoped to see an improvement in the defense. The last 2 years were statistically worse defensively than the previous regime. In order for a process to be successful, there should be some signs of measurable improvement. Improvement which can be measured in on-field performance or a projection were there are better alternatives in the pipeline. I didn't expect the best alternatives at one of the safety positions to be a converted corner or one of the better running backs on the team going into year 3 of the program.

The previous regime's defense was much aligned and rightfully so. Those deficiencies were masked by an extraordinary offense. I am just not sure the current process/direction with the defense will lead anywhere since the offense is not designed in the same manner.

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I hear you, but am willing to give a new defensive scheme another season to mature before making a judgement. Players looked noticeably more comfortable in the D last season than 2017, and the SFA game (obviously a poor overall measure, but the best we have so far) looked solid overall. A few missed assignments and some mental mistakes, but only one score given up while the game mattered.

lakersfan34 said:

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SATXBear said:

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lakersfan34 said:

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SATXBear said:

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Krieg said:

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SATXBear said:

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BigOleBear said:

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I admit I thought CMR was a complete mistake after the early losses, given so much left over talent from CAB era. Seemed he fiddled around with the QB decision when Baylor Nation wanted Zack Smith to start, coming off the bowl win. Bone head calls and not using returning players didn't help his cause and alienated the fan base.

Now here we are with a rapidly improving and very competitive team again. I think even with 9-10 wins there'll always be a number of people, me included, that prefer scoring in 4-5 plays versus a slow methodical pro style offense. I miss the cocky swagger at mid field before kickoff. But I do see a coach that players respect and have bought into his process and for that I'm excited about the future.

Will Baylor fans continue to mention the incredible CAB days, absolutely. But I plan to move ahead never forgetting that recent span of years beating the cows and wagon drivers. Moving on and cheering the Bears but never forgetting our recent successes and celebrating those players and coaches that put Baylor on the map.

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The only fans that were upset about Briles' players not getting PT were the fans who could not move on from the past. Most fans realized Rhule was playing his best team in a difficult situation while planning for the future.

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He was playing the best team for 2019 or 2020 but not the best team for 2016. If you disagree with that you need help because we wemt 1-11 with a team that literally everyone knows was a lot better than that and played a bunch of freshman in front of older players. He did the same at Temple. He wasn't trying to win as many games as possible that year but was playing for the future and somehow resetting expectations to the point where he got praised for equaling Grobe's results in his second year. I still don't understand how anyone let's that second part happen, and I'll forever be annoyed that he wasted a year of Baylor football but whatever.

He needs to win something that matters to be a "good" hire and that should be our expectation of every coach. If they can't finish in the top 10, win the conference, or some equivalent measure of success then we need to look at why and fix the problem. It could be the coach, facilities, or something else. So far he's won nothing but he's only had 2 seasons so that doesn't really matter yet. The jury should be out until he wins big or doesn't after 4-5 years or fails so badly before then the future result is clear and we cut ties early. As I stated earlier in the thread year 3 just began at give him time.

I don't see the second part happening so let's hope the first part happens! I'm ready for some good years again.

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In 2017 there was very little talent left. Also, a lot of players did not fit his system and there were upper class men not buying in. Rhule had a 3-4 win team based on talent and only won one game in 2017. Rhule's coaching deficits the first year cost Baylor 2-3 wins at most, but now things are in place. As he said, trust the process. Guess you don't.

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Right now, there are 8 defensive starters (9 if you count Jordan Williams) recruited by the former regime and 1 transfer. Other than James Lynch, where do you see where Rhule has upgraded the defensive talent? To me, this is discouraging after 3 years of Rhule recruiting to his system (which has now changed to a 3-man front).

Hopefully, there is a process in place. Right now, I just see a program that will bounce between 4/5 wins to 7/8 wins per year with the hope that some of the raw recruits will develop. So far, the player development of defense seems to be behind, if conference titles are the goal.

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Those players have been developed the last few years by Rhule. Do you not get it? That is how a system works. The freshman and sophomore recruits this year are also being developed. What is wrong with you?

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My concern is that in year 3 I would have hoped to see an improvement in the defense. The last 2 years were statistically worse defensively than the previous regime. In order for a process to be successful, there should be some signs of measurable improvement. Improvement which can be measured in on-field performance or a projection were there are better alternatives in the pipeline. I didn't expect the best alternatives at one of the safety positions to be a converted corner or one of the better running backs on the team going into year 3 of the program.

The previous regime's defense was much aligned and rightfully so. Those deficiencies were masked by an extraordinary offense. I am just not sure the current process/direction with the defense will lead anywhere since the offense is not designed in the same manner.

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I understand. We all want more. This is a three year rebuild and Baylor is not the easiest place to recruit to, although better than it was ten years ago. This is a different system so just see what happens.