Football
Sponsored By

Kaepernick

3,265 Views | 48 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by Thee University
zunooreo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
When will this circus show simply just go away? Dude doesn't want to play football again, because he knows the game has well passed him by. Being an "activist" is more profitable to him, and his victimization agenda, and he continues to use football publicity now with a ridiculous $20M salary demand from the start-up XFL as the means to that end.

Simply go away loser...........
Johnny Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I second that motion.
Dia del DougO
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Probably because people keep bringing him up.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
Porteroso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Why is this thread here?

I think his protests were fine, protesting is the most American thing ever. Kneeling is nothing compared to throwing tea in the ocean.

People turned a small protest into a huge thing, which I'd only to his advantage. Stop making threads about him if you want to forget him.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

Why is this thread here?

I think his protests were fine, protesting is the most American thing ever. Kneeling is nothing compared to throwing tea in the ocean.

People turned a small protest into a huge thing, which I'd only to his advantage. Stop making threads about him if you want to forget him.
It's not the kneeling.

It's the message he pushes that America is an overly hateful and racist country.

It's the pig cop socks, the support of commies, black panthers, the notion that white cops have a racism problem that's out of control. That he's being blacklisted by the NFL because of his race...despite the massive amount of diversity in the NFL.

All the misinformation he pushes divides us: his message creates an enemy and oppressor where no such thing exists.
Aberzombie1892
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

Porteroso said:

Why is this thread here?

I think his protests were fine, protesting is the most American thing ever. Kneeling is nothing compared to throwing tea in the ocean.

People turned a small protest into a huge thing, which I'd only to his advantage. Stop making threads about him if you want to forget him.
It's not the kneeling.

It's the message he pushes that America is an overly hateful and racist country.

It's the pig cop socks, the support of commies, black panthers, the notion that white cops have a racism problem that's out of control. That he's being blacklisted by the NFL because of his race...despite the massive amount of diversity in the NFL.

All the misinformation he pushes divides us: his message creates an enemy and oppressor where no such thing exists.
Not to play devils advocate here, but:

1. How much hate and racism is not "overly"?

2. At the macro level, America's criminal justice system is not equitable across in terms of outcomes by race, and it's an institutional problem that spawns from various factors, including, but not limited to, racism, classism, and sexism.

3. He's not being blacklisted because of his race - he's being blacklisted because of the protests and because the inevitable outcome that would occur if such protests were able to continue.
BUbackerinET
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oh, it's the kneeling, AND what you said...
Mitch Henessey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Most folks (generally white folks, in my experience) get pretty upset when you imply or overtly state that our system is one with institutionalized racism. Yet, it's a pretty unavoidable truth. Kaepernick was using his platform to draw attention to that truth.

Did he have some missteps? Yes, calling cops pigs (even if it's only socks) isn't a way to engage in civil discourse, and the Castro t-shirt was probably worn from a place of ignorance (at least, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was ignorance), among other things. But that doesn't completely invalidate his message that there is a great deal of racial inequality and injustice entwined into the fabric of our society.
Karab
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Some bizarre hatred to start a thread solely about him.

That guy almost single-kneedly drove police reform for the benefit of the entire country.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Aberzombie1892 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Porteroso said:

Why is this thread here?

I think his protests were fine, protesting is the most American thing ever. Kneeling is nothing compared to throwing tea in the ocean.

People turned a small protest into a huge thing, which I'd only to his advantage. Stop making threads about him if you want to forget him.
It's not the kneeling.

It's the message he pushes that America is an overly hateful and racist country.

It's the pig cop socks, the support of commies, black panthers, the notion that white cops have a racism problem that's out of control. That he's being blacklisted by the NFL because of his race...despite the massive amount of diversity in the NFL.

All the misinformation he pushes divides us: his message creates an enemy and oppressor where no such thing exists.


Quote:

1. How much hate and racism is not "overly"?
It's a reality that's always going to exist unfortunately. But to frame it as a massive widespread issue, when it's not, is a problem. A problem that creates the very division and racism it claims to be up against because we've defined an oppressor and a victim by race instead of judging every person at the individual level. The idiots on both sides of the equation turn against each other.

Some of the problems Kapernick helped create is hostility toward law enforcement. If you're convinced cops are suspect racists, you might be hostile towards them because of fear or you've accepted they're an oppressor simply because of the system (systemic). You might think your white manager is only holding their position because of their race instead of their abilities. And conversely, a white guy might now think their black boss only got their job because of social justice instead of their abilities.

These are some of the stupid narratives coming out of "woke" culture right now. Very very bad things.

Nothing good comes out of it.

Quote:

2. At the macro level, America's criminal justice system is not equitable across in terms of outcomes by race, and it's an institutional problem that spawns from various factors, including, but not limited to, racism, classism, and sexism.

It directly correlates with environmental behavior. Black Americans are some of our poorest, therefore they will have higher levels of crime because of a more common environment: it has nothing to do with race or racism.

The lack of equal criminal justice system outcomes stems not from racism, but things like fatherless homes for example. The clinical literature, statistics and studies show that Fatherless, poor, and broken homes create higher levels of crime. Black Americans are subject to this more than other races and it explains the higher crime rates.

And a common fallacy is that they're being targeted or arrested through profiling and racism more often. The crime stats show PROVEN crimes are much higher than other races/cultures... and that very same race has higher instances of poverty.
Quote:

3. He's not being blacklisted because of his race - he's being blacklisted because of the protests and because the inevitable outcome that would occur if such protests were able to continue.
I agree that plays a role. This subject pisses a lot of people off.

What I am asking is for people to grow up. The real solution isn't to convince others that racism lurks around every corner, rather it's to actually help these communities escape these environments: that can be done through education, cultural adjustments, technology and so on.

We need to stop framing the problem incorrectly.
Porteroso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If you think there's not a problem with widespread racism in America you are living under a rock, whether literally, or mentally.

Protesting inequality is something I hope Americans will always do. We will never live in a completely equal and just society, but there is nothing wrong from trying to make it that way.
Backporch
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

If you think there's not a problem with widespread racism in America you are living under a rock, whether literally, or mentally.

Protesting inequality is something I hope Americans will always do. We will never live in a completely equal and just society, but there is nothing wrong from trying to make it that way.
Racism goes both ways.
Mitch Henessey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:


2. At the macro level, America's criminal justice system is not equitable across in terms of outcomes by race, and it's an institutional problem that spawns from various factors, including, but not limited to, racism, classism, and sexism.
It directly correlates with environmental behavior. Black Americans are some of our poorest, therefore they will have higher levels of crime because of a more common environment: it has nothing to do with race or racism.

The lack of equal criminal justice system outcomes stems not from racism, but things like fatherless homes for example. The clinical literature, statistics and studies show that Fatherless, poor, and broken homes create higher levels of crime. Black Americans are subject to this more than other races and it explains the higher crime rates.

And a common fallacy is that they're being targeted or arrested through profiling and racism more often. The crime stats show PROVEN crimes are much higher than other races/cultures... and that very same race has higher instances of poverty.
This is some serious lack of critical thinking. If you take these facts to their logical end, you end up in one of two places. If African Americans are systematically more impoverished and more likely to be from fatherless homes, and as a result, more likely to commit crime, there are two rationales as to why that's the case. Either there are institutionalized disadvantages that are persistent to this day, and that is why they haven't been able to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" as is so often espoused as the solution to the problems if the African American community, or African Americans are predisposed, whether genetically or culturally to being lazy, irresponsible, poor fathers, or a combination of the above.

If you believe the latter, you are a racist. Full stop. Quote stats and studies all you want, but you should at least stop to think what systems and institutions are in place that led to black homes being "poor, fatherless, and broken" at such a higher rate than that of white America.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mitch Henessey said:

Doc Holliday said:


2. At the macro level, America's criminal justice system is not equitable across in terms of outcomes by race, and it's an institutional problem that spawns from various factors, including, but not limited to, racism, classism, and sexism.
It directly correlates with environmental behavior. Black Americans are some of our poorest, therefore they will have higher levels of crime because of a more common environment: it has nothing to do with race or racism.

The lack of equal criminal justice system outcomes stems not from racism, but things like fatherless homes for example. The clinical literature, statistics and studies show that Fatherless, poor, and broken homes create higher levels of crime. Black Americans are subject to this more than other races and it explains the higher crime rates.

And a common fallacy is that they're being targeted or arrested through profiling and racism more often. The crime stats show PROVEN crimes are much higher than other races/cultures... and that very same race has higher instances of poverty.
This is some serious lack of critical thinking. If you take these facts to their logical end, you end up in one of two places. If African Americans are systematically more impoverished and more likely to be from fatherless homes, and as a result, more likely to commit crime, there are two rationales as to why that's the case. Either there are institutionalized disadvantages that are persistent to this day, and that is why they haven't been able to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" as is so often espoused as the solution to the problems if the African American community, or African Americans are predisposed, whether genetically or culturally to being lazy, irresponsible, poor fathers, or a combination of the above.

If you believe the latter, you are a racist. Full stop. Quote stats and studies all you want, but you should at least stop to think what systems and institutions are in place that led to black homes being "poor, fatherless, and broken" at such a higher rate than that of white America.
Maybe you should continue reading everything I typed.
Quote:

What I am asking is for people to grow up. The real solution isn't to convince others that racism lurks around every corner, rather it's to actually help these communities escape these environments: that can be done through education, cultural adjustments, technology and so on.
It doesn't matter what race it is: if white people live in poverty they're more likely to commit crimes. Every human is subject to it.

Systemic poverty is real. This is why I offered up those solutions. Yes racism handicapped several races, I understand that: lack of wealth building, exposure and so on. There's no evidence that systemic poverty derives from current racism, rather there's an abundance of evidence that steps have been taken for decades to help.

For you to insult me and prompt your 'latter' narrative is childish.
Jack Bauer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Megan Rapinoe got lauded by the media all last year for doing almost the same thing. I guess at least she can play better thank Kap.

#whitefemalelesbianprivelege
Bearprof
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc..., please just stop with the racist talk and beliefs. If there is significant pushback on this forum, where I've seen most overtly racist statements over a period of many years (including BaylorFans), you know you have or you are the problem.

Be ever vigilant...
EK bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Most ppl who dislike Kap's protest are unaware a Navy SEAL recommended the kneeling to him bc it is a respectful way to stand out rather than just not participating which he was doing before when no one cared.
EK bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
(In before this is moved to R&P board)
Guy Noir
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Aberzombie1892 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Porteroso said:

Why is this thread here?

I think his protests were fine, protesting is the most American thing ever. Kneeling is nothing compared to throwing tea in the ocean.

People turned a small protest into a huge thing, which I'd only to his advantage. Stop making threads about him if you want to forget him.
It's not the kneeling.

It's the message he pushes that America is an overly hateful and racist country.

It's the pig cop socks, the support of commies, black panthers, the notion that white cops have a racism problem that's out of control. That he's being blacklisted by the NFL because of his race...despite the massive amount of diversity in the NFL.

All the misinformation he pushes divides us: his message creates an enemy and oppressor where no such thing exists.
Not to play devils advocate here, but:

1. How much hate and racism is not "overly"?

2. At the macro level, America's criminal justice system is not equitable across in terms of outcomes by race, and it's an institutional problem that spawns from various factors, including, but not limited to, racism, classism, and sexism.

3. He's not being blacklisted because of his race - he's being blacklisted because of the protests and because the inevitable outcome that would occur if such protests were able to continue.
Do you have definitive statistics to backup claim #2?
4yrletterbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Guys like Kap "are the problem" not a part of the solution.

He fits in with typical Hollywood with their over blown view of themselves and their place in society.

Average Joe has no use for rich, self centered types who say the speak for the common man but are really all about themselves
bunation
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

If you think there's not a problem with widespread racism in America you are living under a rock, whether literally, or mentally.

Protesting inequality is something I hope Americans will always do. We will never live in a completely equal and just society, but there is nothing wrong from trying to make it that way.


Delete "America," insert "__________" (fill country name). Racism? Yep. It's a human illness (not an American one).

Thankfully, this blessed nation's black & Hispanic minorities enjoy the highest economic/quality of life status of blacks & Hispanics in any other country.

What would their lives be like if America never (sinfully/horrifically) had slaves? Sealed borders allowing only legal, carefully managed/vetted immigration?

Blessings & curses.

There are appropriate & inappropriate ways to protest. Kaepernick is a prima-donna & narcissist who mostly chose/chooses the latter.
joseywales
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have lived in an Era of racism.the 50s and 60s..real and rampant. It not a racist filled country anymore there are and always will be hate racism etc by a small percentage of any population.look back at history of mankind. It has always been there..you are living under a rock if your not smart enough to realize when u read and watch news etc it is all political propangada..period nothing less nothing more..by both parties..politics and religion thrive on two things, fear and ignorance...and in today's world we are overwhelmed by mis information etc...and we seem to have a large part of the country that believes every thing they here and form their opnions and belief system on such said propangada. ..spend some ti.e to try and reach the truth it is painstaking and a difficult process but we'll worth it
EK bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.
Aberzombie1892
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Guy Noir said:

Aberzombie1892 said:

Doc Holliday said:

Porteroso said:

Why is this thread here?

I think his protests were fine, protesting is the most American thing ever. Kneeling is nothing compared to throwing tea in the ocean.

People turned a small protest into a huge thing, which I'd only to his advantage. Stop making threads about him if you want to forget him.
It's not the kneeling.

It's the message he pushes that America is an overly hateful and racist country.

It's the pig cop socks, the support of commies, black panthers, the notion that white cops have a racism problem that's out of control. That he's being blacklisted by the NFL because of his race...despite the massive amount of diversity in the NFL.

All the misinformation he pushes divides us: his message creates an enemy and oppressor where no such thing exists.
Not to play devils advocate here, but:

1. How much hate and racism is not "overly"?

2. At the macro level, America's criminal justice system is not equitable across in terms of outcomes by race, and it's an institutional problem that spawns from various factors, including, but not limited to, racism, classism, and sexism.

3. He's not being blacklisted because of his race - he's being blacklisted because of the protests and because the inevitable outcome that would occur if such protests were able to continue.
Do you have definitive statistics to backup claim #2?
What are "definitive statistics"? In this modern era, some people frequently dispute statistics automatically if they don't align with their own beliefs, and, because that is the case, it makes it difficult to have a meaningful discussion about this topic or other similar topics.

However, to answer the question, there are plenty of studies/records that show the disparities, and they can easily be found with a google search (i.e. https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/).
zunooreo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Kaepernick is not a victim of anything, other than of his own ignorance and of the friends he surrounds himself with. He is a Top 1%'er in America, but has chosen to be nothing more than a strange clown side show now, like AB. Sad. He has given nothing back to society; the same society and nation that gave him his 1%'er wealth. Like I stated, I just would like him to go away and stop leeching off of football. Football, a game he was only ever average at (at best) and squandered away.

Sic'em
GrandBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
He has a right to do as he please...sure Kaep in other's who do believe in the cause could care less #notgoinganywhere...Read 3rd verse National Anthem....
zunooreo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GrandBear said:

He has a right to do as he please...sure Kaep in other's who do believe in the cause could care less #notgoinganywhere...Read 3rd verse National Anthem....
"Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight" ??
GrandBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Read the whole National Anthem 3rd Verse...."No refuge could save the hireling and slave. From the terror of of flight, or the gloom from the grave"
OldBurlyBear86
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Once the 13/50 rule is finally broken, then the culture will change.

Culture is the issue.

Sorry guys, Bloomberg is correct on this one.
OsoCoreyell
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mitch Henessey said:

Most folks (generally white folks, in my experience) get pretty upset when you imply or overtly state that our system is one with institutionalized racism. Yet, it's a pretty unavoidable truth.
hoboy!
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mitch Henessey said:

Most folks (generally white folks, in my experience) get pretty upset when you imply or overtly state that our system is one with institutionalized racism. Yet, it's a pretty unavoidable truth. Kaepernick was using his platform to draw attention to that truth.

Did he have some missteps? Yes, calling cops pigs (even if it's only socks) isn't a way to engage in civil discourse, and the Castro t-shirt was probably worn from a place of ignorance (at least, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was ignorance), among other things. But that doesn't completely invalidate his message that there is a great deal of racial inequality and injustice entwined into the fabric of our society.
What institutions? The liberal, social-justice driven schools/teachers? Liberal rban politicians and bureaucracies? The left-wing state politicians/bureaucracies in the states with the most African Americans? The arguably more liberal and social-justice driven universities that teach white privilege and use affirmative action (which I support) to admit minority students with considerably lower grades and test scores? Woke corporate America that teaches the same things and fights with each other to attract and retain minority employees? What are these modern-day racist institutions with all this power to keep folks down?

As for Kap, I don't begrudge him for his beliefs. He's a walking clich, and his talking points are echoed daily in Hollywood movies and in most college classrooms. I disagree with him, but he has every right to espouse those views. My problems with Kap are:

1) Generally speaking, sports (at least gameday) is one of those select few remaining American activities that brings people together, where you don't care about the politics of the fellow face-painter sitting next to you. I've been attending college and pro games for 45 years, and I've never had one political discussion in the stands. I've never cared what a player's political views are. I'm conservative, but my favorite actors and many of my favorite athletes and musicians are liberal, many of them very outspoken. I could not care less.
2) I'm sure most players have strong political views, but what if they all started protesting the anthem on gameday? Don't you think pro-lifers, anti-war folks, 2nd Amendments-types, and gun control types feel every bit as strong about their causes? There are countless ways for athletes to get their message out without kneeling during the anthem on gameday. And, all but Kap do so. His approach has not brought people together, quite the contrary.
3) Kap's supporters try to spin and narrow what his message is. It's not just about alleged police brutality, or general social justice. How do I know? I listen to him. You mentioned his pig cop socks and his Castro shirt, and yes, those are appalling. But, just do a quick google search, and you'll see he is much more broadly anti-American. Again, that's his right, but why is anyone surprised that being anti-American in America produces backlash from Americans?!?! And is anyone surprised and is it even wrong if business owners don't want to be associated with that?

bear2be2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.
bear2be2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
zunooreo said:

Kaepernick is not a victim of anything, other than of his own ignorance and of the friends he surrounds himself with. He is a Top 1%'er in America, but has chosen to be nothing more than a strange clown side show now, like AB. Sad. He has given nothing back to society; the same society and nation that gave him his 1%'er wealth. Like I stated, I just would like him to go away and stop leeching off of football. Football, a game he was only ever average at (at best) and squandered away.

Sic'em

The fact that you're comparing Kaepernick, who whether you agree with him or not is an intelligent/thoughtful guy with a coherent and consistent message, to a self-destructive and likely mentally ill individual in AB pretty much shoots down the anti-Kaep argument that racism is no longer an issue.
zunooreo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2be2 said:

zunooreo said:

Kaepernick is not a victim of anything, other than of his own ignorance and of the friends he surrounds himself with. He is a Top 1%'er in America, but has chosen to be nothing more than a strange clown side show now, like AB. Sad. He has given nothing back to society; the same society and nation that gave him his 1%'er wealth. Like I stated, I just would like him to go away and stop leeching off of football. Football, a game he was only ever average at (at best) and squandered away.

Sic'em

The fact that you're comparing Kaepernick, who whether you agree with him or not is an intelligent/thoughtful guy with a coherent and consistent message, to a self-destructive and likely mentally ill individual in AB pretty much shoots down the anti-Kaep argument that racism is no longer an issue.
I compared them simply as both NFL clown side shows these days. I did not try to compare their messages and/or problems. Read and think before you seek to criticize other posters.

Sic'em
EK bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.


Not enough people understand the extent their tribal nature is hard wired in their brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.