BAYLOR WORDS ALERT: When Dave Aranda went back to the drawing board, he saw an offense devoid of direction. Instead of running it back, he picked a crease.

Why Dave Aranda is betting big on the wide zone offense being the future of the Big 12 #SicEm

💻 https://t.co/exNhzZ861B pic.twitter.com/gtrBUVSPBM

— Shehan Jeyarajah (@ShehanJeyarajah) June 23, 2021

What is the difference between the "wide-zoned" offense and the spread?

"Spread" concepts mostly refer to placement of receivers. You usually want more than two (maybe TEs as well), and the idea is to cover the field. It prevents the defense from keying to one area or player. The QB counts into the box, determines run or pass (if there's more than, say, 5 defenders near the OL, then you'd like a pass play), then looks to see who's winning their one-on-one match up. The key running play for the spread is typically the "inside zone". In that play, the RB and QB come together after the snap (shotgun). The QB looks at the defensive end and reads whether he's crashing down the line (pushing laterally on the OL to compress or gain an angle) or rushing straight ahead to get to the QB.If that end is crashing, the QB keeps the ball and tries to run around the now vacated end of the line. If the DE rushes, he gives the ball to the RB in hopes that he has vacated gaps inside the OL to run through.

"Wide zone" broadly refers to the motion of the OL. At the snap, the members of the OL more or less make lateral movements toward the play side (where the natural motion of the RB and QB would be headed). As they head laterally, they begin to engage the first unblocked member of the defense they come to (that's "zone" blocking). The blocking motion attempts to widen out the defense. Ideally, the RB will get the ball and be a "one cut" guy (that is, he finds the first good daylight gap created by the widening OL, plants his foot hard, and heads upfield without hesitation) capable of defeating a defensive secondary player one-on-one. To keep the defense from simply flooding the gaps with more players, the offense will incorporate "counter" (where the RB takes an initial step towards that natural motion, but then cuts back against the grain and past the over-pursuing defenders) motion or QB bootlegs (the QB does not hand off, but instead spins back to the other side ready to run or throw).

These area hand-waving definitions, since modern offenses incorporate many diverse elements in order to disguise their intent and prolong the chess match with the defensive coordinators.

I've seen that offense somewhere before? SMH

So its the Packer/Lombardi Sweep.

Great explanation!

Does this give us Briles like offense results?

If it gives us a fast strong and smart O -Line that can bust runners loose into opponents secondaries, I am all for it!

Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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If it gets us the results of Big 12 title games, NY6 games, and playoff contention, I can support it.

Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

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Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

Details remain to be seen but this sounds very similar to Coach Art Briles offense - the offense that won us two Big 12 Championships and kept us from being dependant on having the best offensive linemen in the Big 12 in order to win games.

Until we can beat out UT and OU for offensive lineman consistently, this is the best offense for Baylor IMO.

This scheme won't hide slow or confused OL. It may help out smaller but quicker OL.

Playing OL is a physics lesson. The first rule is that no matter how big or strong you are, your power comes from the ground. If your feet aren't on the ground, you're an object to be tossed aside. Second, if your center of mass isn't over your base, you're going to fall over. Your base is your feet. Keeping your torso centered over your feet at all times is imperative.

Linemen spend a lot of their time working out how to move around a football field (usually with tons of unpredictable bodies crashing at their ankles) while minimizing the amount of time their feet aren't on the ground or inside of their centers of mass.Since wide zone relies on getting, well, outside the defense, the OL will need reliable and nimble footwork to get out ahead of the runner. Learning hand placement and how to direct the defenders to form gaps is another skill.

It helps if the RB is a strong, hard hitter (doesn't it always?), but more importantly, he MUST BE DECISIVE. As the RB comes down the line, he'll see a few possible gaps to cut through. This scheme fails when the RB ignores all the 4 and 5 yard gain gaps while searching for the touchdown gap. An indecisive RB will just get escorted out of bounds or blasted by the Will LB while juking in a gap.

JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

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Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

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Huh? Who said we don't want good results on offense? I asking about why we are still talking about Briles. Why aren't we wishing for Grimes results at BYU instead? What does Briles have to do with Baylor anymore? Baylor is on its 3rd HC since them. Move on.

Mr Tulip said:

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This scheme won't hide slow or confused OL. It may help out smaller but quicker OL.

Playing OL is a physics lesson. The first rule is that no matter how big or strong you are, your power comes from the ground. If your feet aren't on the ground, you're an object to be tossed aside. Second, if your center of mass isn't over your base, you're going to fall over. Your base is your feet. Keeping your torso centered over your feet at all times is imperative.

Linemen spend a lot of their time working out how to move around a football field (usually with tons of unpredictable bodies crashing at their ankles) while minimizing the amount of time their feet aren't on the ground or inside of their centers of mass.Since wide zone relies on getting, well, outside the defense, the OL will need reliable and nimble footwork to get out ahead of the runner. Learning hand placement and how to direct the defenders to form gaps is another skill.

It helps if the RB is a strong, hard hitter (doesn't it always?), but more importantly, he MUST BE DECISIVE. As the RB comes down the line, he'll see a few possible gaps to cut through. This scheme fails when the RB ignores all the 4 and 5 yard gain gaps while searching for the touchdown gap. An indecisive RB will just get escorted out of bounds or blasted by the Will LB while juking in a gap.

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Helpful analysis. Makes me think finding the right rb/s to execute the new scheme might be just as important as finding the right qb.

Will Baylor use the HUNH (Hurry up, No Huddle), at times, in their new offense? It seems many teams use this methodology, at times, to keep the defense on their heels.

Bear Apologist said:

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JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

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Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

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Huh? Who said we don't want good results on offense? I asking about why we are still talking about Briles. Why aren't we wishing for Grimes results at BYU instead? What does Briles have to do with Baylor anymore? Baylor is on its 3rd HC since them. Move on.

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Why are we talking about Briles - are you paying attention? Like the one we seem to be implementing currently, Briles's offense was HUNH Wide Spread and it was glorious. The post was very relevant You pounced on it with nonsense. What does Briles have to do with Baylor? He is the most successful coach in our history and the only coach to win a Big 12 championship.

Regardless of what Kool-Aid you are drinking, we should at least consider examining his offensive formula for success.

Mr Tulip said:

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"Spread" concepts mostly refer to placement of receivers. You usually want more than two (maybe TEs as well), and the idea is to cover the field. It prevents the defense from keying to one area or player. The QB counts into the box, determines run or pass (if there's more than, say, 5 defenders near the OL, then you'd like a pass play), then looks to see who's winning their one-on-one match up. The key running play for the spread is typically the "inside zone". In that play, the RB and QB come together after the snap (shotgun). The QB looks at the defensive end and reads whether he's crashing down the line (pushing laterally on the OL to compress or gain an angle) or rushing straight ahead to get to the QB.If that end is crashing, the QB keeps the ball and tries to run around the now vacated end of the line. If the DE rushes, he gives the ball to the RB in hopes that he has vacated gaps inside the OL to run through.

"Wide zone" broadly refers to the motion of the OL. At the snap, the members of the OL more or less make lateral movements toward the play side (where the natural motion of the RB and QB would be headed). As they head laterally, they begin to engage the first unblocked member of the defense they come to (that's "zone" blocking). The blocking motion attempts to widen out the defense. Ideally, the RB will get the ball and be a "one cut" guy (that is, he finds the first good daylight gap created by the widening OL, plants his foot hard, and heads upfield without hesitation) capable of defeating a defensive secondary player one-on-one. To keep the defense from simply flooding the gaps with more players, the offense will incorporate "counter" (where the RB takes an initial step towards that natural motion, but then cuts back against the grain and past the over-pursuing defenders) motion or QB bootlegs (the QB does not hand off, but instead spins back to the other side ready to run or throw).

These area hand-waving definitions, since modern offenses incorporate many diverse elements in order to disguise their intent and prolong the chess match with the defensive coordinators.

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Thank you - this was the most informative 1-2 minutes for me, in large part because you defined terms I always hear (crashing down the line) but didn't have a frame of reference. I appreciate the 101-level explainer.

JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

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Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

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Huh? Who said we don't want good results on offense? I asking about why we are still talking about Briles. Why aren't we wishing for Grimes results at BYU instead? What does Briles have to do with Baylor anymore? Baylor is on its 3rd HC since them. Move on.

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Why are we talking about Briles - are you paying attention? Like the one we seem to be implementing currently, Briles's offense was HUNH Wide Spread and it was glorious. The post was very relevant You pounced on it with nonsense. What does Briles have to do with Baylor? He is the most successful coach in our history and the only coach to win a Big 12 championship.

Regardless of what Kool-Aid you are drinking, we should at least consider examining his offensive formula for success.

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Sir, this is a Baylor fan site. I think you're looking for Briles365.com

Also.... "Wide Spread" isn't a thing. You might be conflating the Wide Zone and the Spread. While I'm at it, HUNH isn't a scheme. It's a time management strategy that you can implement under every other offensive scheme that exists. Anyway, I think you're on the wrong site.

This post is dumbfounding - on several levels.

Bear Apologist said:

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JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

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Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

---

Huh? Who said we don't want good results on offense? I asking about why we are still talking about Briles. Why aren't we wishing for Grimes results at BYU instead? What does Briles have to do with Baylor anymore? Baylor is on its 3rd HC since them. Move on.

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Why are we talking about Briles - are you paying attention? Like the one we seem to be implementing currently, Briles's offense was HUNH Wide Spread and it was glorious. The post was very relevant You pounced on it with nonsense. What does Briles have to do with Baylor? He is the most successful coach in our history and the only coach to win a Big 12 championship.

Regardless of what Kool-Aid you are drinking, we should at least consider examining his offensive formula for success.

---

Sir, this is a Baylor fan site. I think you're looking for Briles365.com

Also.... "Wide Spread" isn't a thing. You might be conflating the Wide Zone and the Spread. While I'm at it, HUNH isn't a scheme. It's a time management strategy that you can implement under every other offensive scheme that exists. Anyway, I think you're on the wrong site.

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Briles is relevant to any discussion on Baylor Football offense. Whether you agree is not relevant.
Its dumbfounding anyone would argue that whether you like him or hate him.

You have chosen nit picking word structure of a quickly typed response at the expense of the point. Perhaps that is a side effect of BDS (Briles Derrangement Syndrome).

JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

---

Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

---

Huh? Who said we don't want good results on offense? I asking about why we are still talking about Briles. Why aren't we wishing for Grimes results at BYU instead? What does Briles have to do with Baylor anymore? Baylor is on its 3rd HC since them. Move on.

---

Why are we talking about Briles - are you paying attention? Like the one we seem to be implementing currently, Briles's offense was HUNH Wide Spread and it was glorious. The post was very relevant You pounced on it with nonsense. What does Briles have to do with Baylor? He is the most successful coach in our history and the only coach to win a Big 12 championship.

Regardless of what Kool-Aid you are drinking, we should at least consider examining his offensive formula for success.

---

Sir, this is a Baylor fan site. I think you're looking for Briles365.com

Also.... "Wide Spread" isn't a thing. You might be conflating the Wide Zone and the Spread. While I'm at it, HUNH isn't a scheme. It's a time management strategy that you can implement under every other offensive scheme that exists. Anyway, I think you're on the wrong site.

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Briles is relevant to any discussion on Baylor Football offense. Whether you agree is not relevant.
Its dumbfounding anyone would argue that whether you like him or hate him.

You have chosen nit picking word structure of a quickly typed response at the expense of the point. Perhaps that is a side effect of BDS (Briles Derrangement Syndrome).

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It sounds like you're in for a real dilemma if Baylor ever has a good offense without Briles.

I realize Briles made use of the. HUHN, and it was efferctive. Many other schools have added this to their offense packages.

My original questions was not about Briles, or to create an argument, but to find out if the current BU Bears wil use this in their offensive arsenal. Will BU use this?

Guy Noir said:

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I realize Briles made use of the. HUHN, and it was efferctive. Many other schools have added this to their offense packages.

My original questions was not about Briles, or to create an argument, but to find out if the current BU Bears wil use this in their offensive arsenal. Will BU use this?

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I would imagine that practically every team in college football has a HUNH package for late game situations when it's down to the wire, you need to preserve clock, and you need to score to win or force overtime. But as far as whether it will be something we utilize regularly, I doubt it. Bear Apologist is right in that HUNH is not a scheme so much as a it is a time management tool that some teams use to change up the tempo and throw teams off rhythm. There's nothing wrong with that style (clearly it worked with Briles and has worked for others as well), but I don't anticipate that being a mainstay of Grimes plans or methods. Plus, the Big 12 is moving away from those kinds of offenses as Iowa State has given the blueprint at how to mitigate them successfully and other B12 defenses are catching on.

Guy Noir said:

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I realize Briles made use of the. HUHN, and it was efferctive. Many other schools have added this to their offense packages.

My original questions was not about Briles, or to create an argument, but to find out if the current BU Bears wil use this in their offensive arsenal. Will BU use this?

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Almost every school has it. And we have used some form of it recently.

Obviously, going quickly is one reason to use HUNH when the need presents itself.

A more common reason in today's game (and one that Briles used brilliantly) is catching opponents in bad substitution groups.

There's a constant chess match going on between offensive and defensive coordinators. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. The offense more or less has to declare their players first. By that, I mean they have to send their guys on the field and past the "numbers". At that point, they have to be involved in the play (there's a ton of esoteric rules at work here - breaking them leads to the dreaded "illegal substitution" penalty). The defensive coordinator for the other team has to see this and match it. The defense goes second. That's their advantage.

As an ugly example, if the offense sends out 4 WR and a RB, you wouldn't send out 5 DL, 4 big LB and 2 S. That's a "goal line" defensive package emphasizing mass. You're obviously gonna get blown away with the fast passing game that the offense declared. This would be a bad substitution.

The HUNH comes up when the OC realizes that he's got the advantage on the field. A good 15 yard pass play might demonstrate that. While the DC won't usually make such a boneheaded substitution as in my example, they can simply get players out there that aren't able to hang with the offense. When that happens, the OC uses the HUNH to keep the plays coming in. The defense can't substitute their guys and correct their mistake.

Of course, the DC can always use a time out to correct it, but those are precious. Typically, a DL or LB will get a rolled ankle or thigh cramp. Play will stop, the cramp will disappear, and another more well suited defense will be on the field.

Huge "if" right there. Very doubtful Baylor will ever see an offense as brilliant as those under Coach Arthur Ray Briles.

JP1037 said:

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Bear Apologist said:

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Baylor3216 said:

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Does this give us Briles like offense results?

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Move on, man.

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Yeah. Stop wanting those kind of results and accept the results the board gives you. What a stupid post.

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It's not so much as wanting good results. It is more about the fact that Briles is gone and regardless of your position about it he is never coming back and we can only look at what we have now. Rhule already took Baylor to a Big 12 championship game (with some decent luck) and Baylor has since been developing a defensive identity.

We all want improvement and titles and success for Baylor. How it happens and who it comes under can change. Sometimes it is a high flying, smoking hot offense, other times it is gritty hard-nosed defense.

ImABearToo said:

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Huge "if" right there. Very doubtful Baylor will ever see an offense as brilliant as those under Coach Arthur Ray Briles.

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In Briles's 8 seasons, Baylor's average total offense ranking was #21. Pretty good, but there were plenty of offenses that had more production. Obviously, it's weighed down by the earlier seasons, so dont you think the success was at least just as dependent, if not more, on talent rather than the scheme itself? It's not like Briles would've seen the same success with middle school theater kids playing for him. If Baylor can recruit the talent, which it's looking pretty promising right now, why is it so hard to believe that Baylor could have a dominant offense?

Art found the talent. Big strong O line, RB and WR guys. May not have been on TU or OU radars but when they got to Waco the staff coached em up. Rhule did win in a different way but the "in your face" intimidating style we won with from 2012-2015 will never be matched in my lifetime. I know, many say it wasn't a good look for Waco, a la Miami Hurricanes style, but don't lie and say it wasn't fun while it lasted.

Bear Apologist said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Huge "if" right there. Very doubtful Baylor will ever see an offense as brilliant as those under Coach Arthur Ray Briles.

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In Briles's 8 seasons, Baylor's average total offense ranking was #21. Pretty good, but there were plenty of offenses that had more production. Obviously, it's weighed down by the earlier seasons, so dont you think the success was at least just as dependent, if not more, on talent rather than the scheme itself? It's not like Briles would've seen the same success with middle school theater kids playing for him. If Baylor can recruit the talent, which it's looking pretty promising right now, why is it so hard to believe that Baylor could have a dominant offense?

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I wouldn't shortchange Brile's prowess as an offensive mind. Briles was considered the greatest offensive mind in the country in a poll of coaches, and by a very wide margin. Once he got rolling, they were the top offense in the country every year.

That being said, his offense first philosophy came at a cost to the other aspects of the game. It tended to inflate defensive stats, making it difficult to recruit top level defensive talent. Also Art was focused almost exclusively on the offense in practices etc., leaving the defense and special teams to others. the lack of success in translating his scheme to the NFL might have also eventually come back to bite us. His approach was without peer in elevating a bad program to a great one, but it might have had a natural ceiling, particularly as defenses in the Big 12 and nationally were adjusting to it. Whether we could have continued to play at that level or even make it to the lest will forever be unknown. In lauding his offensive prowess, it's important to recognize that every style has tradeoffs. It's very possible that Aranda's defense-first approach ultimately has a higher ceiling than Art's did, even if it will almost certainly never match the offensive stats we enjoyed under Art.

[I'm intentionally leaving completely out of this post any comment about his other alleged failings as a program manager, which we all grew tired of discussing many years ago]

Bear Apologist said:

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ImABearToo said:

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Huge "if" right there. Very doubtful Baylor will ever see an offense as brilliant as those under Coach Arthur Ray Briles.

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In Briles's 8 seasons, Baylor's average total offense ranking was #21. Pretty good, but there were plenty of offenses that had more production. Obviously, it's weighed down by the earlier seasons, so dont you think the success was at least just as dependent, if not more, on talent rather than the scheme itself? It's not like Briles would've seen the same success with middle school theater kids playing for him. If Baylor can recruit the talent, which it's looking pretty promising right now, why is it so hard to believe that Baylor could have a dominant offense?

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Not sure #21 ranking comes from. NCAA.org only goes to 2012 that I can find.
2012 #2 (#1 Power 5)
2013 #1
2014 #1
2015 #1
Success was of course aided by better players. But we never had the best talent in the Big 12 but still had 2 Big 12 titles.

Baylor can have a dominant offense. But I only see two ways to get there...
1) High Octane full-throttle Briles style offense (call it whatever the hell you want) run to perfection (not easy as only a very limited number of coaches can make that work)
OR
2) Recruit a line full of fast, strong, dominant and quick 300+ lb offensive linemen and run whatever offense you want. That seems to be the route we are on with the 2021 class. I actually like that way better because its virtually fool proof... its just really hard to pull that off year after year at Baylor who is fighting bigger brands for a limited supply of those guys.

Outside of that we either must get lucky or have a sick defense to win the Big 12 again.

Bear Apologist said:

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It sounds like you're in for a real dilemma if Baylor ever has a good offense without Briles.

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Nope. I'd be thrilled.

As someone who's not well-versed in football terminology, your explanation of the spread and wide zone concepts was really helpful to me. I appreciate you breaking it down in simple terms. It's interesting to learn about the strategic thinking behind these offensive plays, like how the QB reads the defense and decides whether to run or pass and how the OL's lateral movements are meant to widen out the defense. It's amazing how much thought and planning go into each play! While I'm not much of a gambler myself, I've heard of w88 as a good option for betting. It's always intriguing to learn about the different ways people engage with their favorite sports.