That's the question.Norman Dale said:
You assume the lab created spike protein can do no harm in and of itself.
It's been difficult vaccine conversations on going for Dave Aranda and Baylor
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Last: 3 yr ago by Wrecks Quan Dough
That's not an assumption. The protein spike cannot reproduce. It has no genetic material whatsoever. Further, the spike itself is not lab created, as such. The spike is actually not part of the vaccine when introduced to the body. It's created by the body via the mRNA instructions that make up the vaccine.
The mRNA instructions are like downloading a PDF. Once you get them, you can go out to your shop, use your own wood (!), and build a coffee table. The PDF is now useless to you. The coffee table will not be capable of building more coffee tables. You could (and probably will) trip over it and hurt yourself, so it's not a perfect analogy.
The vaccine doesn't tell the cell how to build a complete virus (which does have genetic material inside). It tells it how to build the spike. If, in the analogy above, you built a table leg, someone could say, "Hey! That's a table leg!", but it wouldn't actually be able to do anything.
However, the body will recognize that the protein is not part of the body's own system. It will, then, activate the immune system as we've discussed. It takes the body a minute to figure out how to defend against a new protein, but once it does, it remembers how to do it the next time it sees it. That's why the "vaccine" is more useful than an antiviral or other therapy that only works when an active virus is present (and why fighting viruses is so tough).
Without the spike, the COVID virus is useless. It sit there like a car with no wheels, until your wife calls the junk hauler to get it out of the yard.
The mRNA instructions are like downloading a PDF. Once you get them, you can go out to your shop, use your own wood (!), and build a coffee table. The PDF is now useless to you. The coffee table will not be capable of building more coffee tables. You could (and probably will) trip over it and hurt yourself, so it's not a perfect analogy.
The vaccine doesn't tell the cell how to build a complete virus (which does have genetic material inside). It tells it how to build the spike. If, in the analogy above, you built a table leg, someone could say, "Hey! That's a table leg!", but it wouldn't actually be able to do anything.
However, the body will recognize that the protein is not part of the body's own system. It will, then, activate the immune system as we've discussed. It takes the body a minute to figure out how to defend against a new protein, but once it does, it remembers how to do it the next time it sees it. That's why the "vaccine" is more useful than an antiviral or other therapy that only works when an active virus is present (and why fighting viruses is so tough).
Without the spike, the COVID virus is useless. It sit there like a car with no wheels, until your wife calls the junk hauler to get it out of the yard.
We talked earlier about how important it is for scientists to report all information. Part of this is "verifiability". That usually means "reproduceability" That means, if I tell you exactly how I did it, you should be able to get exactly my results.
To that end, I give you the genetic sequencing code to the protein spike as created by the mRNA contained in the Moderna vaccine. The PFizer one is published elsewhere:
https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding-mRNA-sequences-for-vaccines-BNT-162b2-and-mRNA-1273/blob/main/Assemblies%20of%20putative%20SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding%20mRNA%20sequences%20for%20vaccines%20BNT-162b2%20and%20mRNA-1273.docx.pdf
If you have some spare time, a suitably equipped lab, and multiple PhD's in biochemistry, you can create your own vaccine by following that blueprint.
To that end, I give you the genetic sequencing code to the protein spike as created by the mRNA contained in the Moderna vaccine. The PFizer one is published elsewhere:
https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding-mRNA-sequences-for-vaccines-BNT-162b2-and-mRNA-1273/blob/main/Assemblies%20of%20putative%20SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding%20mRNA%20sequences%20for%20vaccines%20BNT-162b2%20and%20mRNA-1273.docx.pdf
If you have some spare time, a suitably equipped lab, and multiple PhD's in biochemistry, you can create your own vaccine by following that blueprint.
Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
I read somewhere that more people have died from the vaccine than from covid over the last 2 weeksBUBBFAN said:Currently it shows just under 13,000, and increase of 6,000 since last week.TXBEAR_bf said:
Tulip, appreciate the time you have taken to go into detail about the vaccine. The problem I have had with the CDC and government officials is the blanket statement that the vaccine is safe without any discussion of the possible side effects. I am not an anti vax individual; however, the continuous pushing of the vaccine without any side effects discussion makes me uncomfortable. I am not sure what to make of the VAERS data, but that shows over 4 thousand deaths as of last month. Additionally, I know several individuals, including my wife that have had very concerning SE. I understand statistically speaking they might be insignificant, but tell that to the people experiencing them. I would welcome you to go to this site; Medscape, and read what people are posting about their reactions. This is a site for medical professionals. https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events
Here is my stance; I have the ability to control my interactions to a certain degree, I work from home. I am healthy and highly likely to survive if I get Covid. If I get the jab, I am still a possible carrier, and my symptoms will be mildervery similar to a flu shottheoretically. I am not going to feel unpatriotic for not getting the shot, period. I am not suggesting that I will not get it, but the idea that is so black and white is over simplifying it. The long term implications are not known and there are many in the medical a community that are still fighting to not receive them.
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
Since the sythentic protein has been proven to enter the bloodstream, many scientists have expressed concern with potential "long term" cardio and neurological issues. If an 18-22 year old athlete has close to zero percent chance of any serious health consequence from getting covid, why roll the dice on taking the vaccine?Darth Melon said:
The facts are that the more people in our society that are vaccinated against Covid, the quicker the spread of it dies out, that's the entire purpose of vaccines. Unfortunately, as with most things, our country has politicized the issue when it should be a decision solely based on evidence.
What we know is that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines protect the vaccinated individuals with 94-95% efficacy. It doesn't take a genius to see how valuable that is in stopping the spread of Covid. The most reasonable position against the vaccine is that there is no long-term data on it. If you take time to truly understand how it works, however, I think it's clear that you aren't going to contract some lung disease or have five tumors randomly spring up in your body. Think of it as introducing a protein sequence into your body (i.e. instructions) to prevent the covid spike protein from binding to your cells and making you sick.
All that being said, I have never seen anyone care about any other vaccine (hep B, flu, MMR, etc.) or a medication's side effects with any modicum of seriousness, but now they think "emergency phase" means the vaccine is a massive gamble on safety. I am confident Pfizer wouldn't bank their entire reputation as a company on a vaccine that isn't safe. Additionally, if you are familiar with FDA approval, it is ridiculously slow, and to wait for full approval for the vaccine in order to offer it would cost many more lives and keep this pandemic in effect for far longer than we can tolerate as a country and world.
It is acknowledged that VAERS captures at most 10% of all adverse reactions, and we know there have been way too many serious reactions and death that have been documented in healthy young people. I also understand that one can't say with certainty that an adverse reaction was caused by the shot without an autopsy, but based on statistical probabilities, it's absurd to simply dismiss VAERS data as some are doing.
It's also prudent to observe data from other countries such as England, the EU, and Israel. Studies in Israel are showing that the efficacy of the shot is significantly wearing off after a few months. One recent claim was that 84% of new infections are from people that have been fully vaccinated (note: Israel is a highly vaccinated country, so it stands to reason that the vaccinated will be a high percentage of those infected).
This is kind of tough to address directly, since I don't know where "somewhere" would be, but ask yourself if this makes any sense. If the vaccine were suddenly killing people on a 1 to 1 basis (or greater, as stated), what would the certain reaction be? We'd be seeing 'OMG! The vaccine is flawed and lethal! Stop taking it at once!" blasted everywhere.Chuckroast said:I read somewhere that more people have died from the vaccine than from covid over the last 2 weeksBUBBFAN said:Currently it shows just under 13,000, and increase of 6,000 since last week.TXBEAR_bf said:
Tulip, appreciate the time you have taken to go into detail about the vaccine. The problem I have had with the CDC and government officials is the blanket statement that the vaccine is safe without any discussion of the possible side effects. I am not an anti vax individual; however, the continuous pushing of the vaccine without any side effects discussion makes me uncomfortable. I am not sure what to make of the VAERS data, but that shows over 4 thousand deaths as of last month. Additionally, I know several individuals, including my wife that have had very concerning SE. I understand statistically speaking they might be insignificant, but tell that to the people experiencing them. I would welcome you to go to this site; Medscape, and read what people are posting about their reactions. This is a site for medical professionals. https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events
Here is my stance; I have the ability to control my interactions to a certain degree, I work from home. I am healthy and highly likely to survive if I get Covid. If I get the jab, I am still a possible carrier, and my symptoms will be mildervery similar to a flu shottheoretically. I am not going to feel unpatriotic for not getting the shot, period. I am not suggesting that I will not get it, but the idea that is so black and white is over simplifying it. The long term implications are not known and there are many in the medical a community that are still fighting to not receive them.
On the surface, again without any sourcing, it seems awfully likely that the source is either misinformed at best or malevolent at worst.
Well......there is a greater chance you will die in an automobile accident than from COVID or the vaccine. Just like possible side effects from a vaccine med, long term you never know when/if that accident will happen. So, I guess you better stop getting into cars....since you have the ability to control that too. Good luck!TXBEAR_bf said:
Tulip, appreciate the time you have taken to go into detail about the vaccine. The problem I have had with the CDC and government officials is the blanket statement that the vaccine is safe without any discussion of the possible side effects. I am not an anti vax individual; however, the continuous pushing of the vaccine without any side effects discussion makes me uncomfortable. I am not sure what to make of the VAERS data, but that shows over 4 thousand deaths as of last month. Additionally, I know several individuals, including my wife that have had very concerning SE. I understand statistically speaking they might be insignificant, but tell that to the people experiencing them. I would welcome you to go to this site; Medscape, and read what people are posting about their reactions. This is a site for medical professionals. https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events
Here is my stance; I have the ability to control my interactions to a certain degree, I work from home. I am healthy and highly likely to survive if I get Covid. If I get the jab, I am still a possible carrier, and my symptoms will be mildervery similar to a flu shottheoretically. I am not going to feel unpatriotic for not getting the shot, period. I am not suggesting that I will not get it, but the idea that is so black and white is over simplifying it. The long term implications are not known and there are many in the medical a community that are still fighting to not receive them.
Gunny Hartman said:Bearprof said:
While I appreciate his mild-mannered approach, there is clear evidence now that the Delta Variant is redefining the COVID crisis in our country, especially for those individuals who are not vaccinated. I hope the conferences give an automatic L for those teams who can't play in a given week due to COVID infections. It's past time to stop messing around with this virus and have enough vaccinations to have some semblance of herd Immunity. Otherwise, the virus will continue to mutate due to, essentially, a certain political thought rather than relying on science. We have met the enemy, and they are us.
Totally! After all, Texas Democrats proved that once you get the vax then you're totally immune.
Oh wait.
A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that protects against infection. If you come in contact with a virus whether vaccinated or previously recovered from, you are 100% guaranteed to contract the virus as once it enters your body you have officially contracted the virus. The difference that passive or acquired immunity provides is that it allows your immune system to immediately recognize the virus. Now depending on how efficient your body is at responding to threats will dictate whether or not the virus will have time to propagate enough to be detectable by tests or even have enough time to show symptoms. However regardless of your bodies efficiency, there is no doubt that the quick response reduces any excessive symptoms and leads to quicker recovery.
It's just like playing football. Sure, you can get a kid and tell him to run some routes and they will eventually get it and memorize it after a lot of trial and error. But instead if you give him a playbook and some training before running the routes the kid will pick it up quicker and be much more efficient, but just like getting a vaccine doesn't mean there aren't still chances for hiccups along the way.
Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
The fact that you know little about science or vaccines is ok. What's not ok is forming these strong opinions that are simply ignorant. Now I doubt you came up with this level of wrong yourself, you probably are parroting it. I can appreciate that, none of us understand everything, so we have to trust some to know more than us, and make decisions. You are listening to the wrong people though.Carlos Cruz said:There is no long term data on the safety of these therapies. For you to claim they are safe, is to ignore the fact that there has not been enough time to evaluate the long-term effects of the therapies.Mr Tulip said:
So are you attempting to make "emergency authorization" equal to "not proven safe"?
Frankly, I am disgusted that total strangers are advocating that medical decisions, the long-term effects of which are not known, be undertaken by 18-23 year-old men simply so they can be entertained.
One long term effect of this particular mRNA vaccine is known. Hundreds of thousands, to millions of human beings, won't die. That's the only known long term effect. At best, you're just paranoid. At worst, ready to ignore millions of deaths in favor of side effects that don't exist in reality, only in your imagination.
This will be helpful for you. The vaccine does not stop the virus, it gives your body the antibodies necessary to fight the virus. For the antibodies to fight it, the virus must be in your body. You have to have covid in order for the vaccine to start working. That doesn't mean you necessarily will test positive, or will give it to someone else, because the antibodies produced by the vaccine most times will attack the virus before it can replicate much at all, and destroy it before it infects organs, or becomes transmissible.BUBBFAN said:People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
Link on how this vaccine (mRNA) works
Huh, so you say the vaccinated don't die. The unvaccinated don't die either. In fact, before the jab was put into mass use, well over 99% of the people under the age 55 who were unfortunate enough to catch Covid, survived it. But you want to demand that people you don't even know, who even if they come into contact with the virus would survive it, inject themselves so that you could feel more secure about a college football season.Porteroso said:Carlos Cruz said:There is no long term data on the safety of these therapies. For you to claim they are safe, is to ignore the fact that there has not been enough time to evaluate the long-term effects of the therapies.Mr Tulip said:
So are you attempting to make "emergency authorization" equal to "not proven safe"?
Frankly, I am disgusted that total strangers are advocating that medical decisions, the long-term effects of which are not known, be undertaken by 18-23 year-old men simply so they can be entertained.
One long term effect of this particular mRNA vaccine is known. Hundreds of thousands, to millions of human beings, won't die. That's the only known long term effect. At best, you're just paranoid. At worst, ready to ignore millions of deaths in favor of side effects that don't exist in reality, only in your imagination.
Let's go back to how vaccines work. The idea behind a vaccine is that you introduce something into the body, the body recognizes it as foreign, and activates the immune system to kill it. The immune system can create new processes to kill an invader it hasn't seen before, but it takes time and energy. If the immune system works fast enough, it starts killing the invader faster than the invader can reproduce. In that way, the body clears itself of the infection.BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
The cool thing is, once the body knows how to fight off the infection, it kind of remembers how to do it, so it can get on the job faster if it ever sees that type of invader again. The faster it can get going, the greater chance it has of getting out in front of the invader's ability to reproduce.
This vaccine creates the protein spike. It doesn't contain the spike. It contains the instructions to build one. Your body builds that protein structure, and the immune system reacts. The protein structure can't copy itself. You only make as many protein spikes as the vaccine injection allows you to. Your immune system gets itself going to kill those spikes, and is then ready to kill them in the future.
If a vaccinated person encounters "real" COVID, the COVID invaders can still get started. The immune system will be much faster to react, but it won't be instantaneous. Each individual's immune system is different, and dependent on age, nutrition, sleep, stress, etc. However, holding the two scenarios equal, the vaccinated person will be able to attack and clear the infection quicker than the non-vaccinated person.
It is practically a certainty that the infection would have been much worse in the non-vaccinated person, again holding all other parameters equal. However, evidence of COVID will be found in the snot of both individuals. RT-PCR tests are amazing!
I hope you've all got a trusted doctor or someone who gives you medical advice. Everybody has their own area of expertise, and we're going to have to rely on others in areas we're not learned in. I've described the mechanism of vaccination, how mRNA works, how the immune system works, and even provided the genome sequence so you can make it yourself. Please verify that information with your trusted medical source.
BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
That line of thinking really makes no sense though if you understand the human body at all. A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that prevents infection. All it is is a means to prime your immune system to respond quicker when a foreign body is present. Just because the immune system responds quicker doesn't mean that an individual persons immune system is going to respond quick enough to prevent the pathogen from propagating enough to show up on tests or show symptoms. However with the quicker response time it makes the lag time between first exposure to full immune response much shorter and thus even if the person gets to the point of symptoms or enough viral load for testing positive, the symptoms and viral load will be significantly less and much shorter lived. That is why I was asking if you believe the infection of a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person were the same, because they definitely are not.
Carlos Cruz said:Huh, so you say the vaccinated don't die. The unvaccinated don't die either. In fact, before the jab was put into mass use, well over 99% of the people under the age 55 who were unfortunate enough to catch Covid, survived it. But you want to demand that people you don't even know, who even if they come into contact with the virus would survive it, inject themselves so that you could feel more secure about a college football season.Porteroso said:Carlos Cruz said:There is no long term data on the safety of these therapies. For you to claim they are safe, is to ignore the fact that there has not been enough time to evaluate the long-term effects of the therapies.Mr Tulip said:
So are you attempting to make "emergency authorization" equal to "not proven safe"?
Frankly, I am disgusted that total strangers are advocating that medical decisions, the long-term effects of which are not known, be undertaken by 18-23 year-old men simply so they can be entertained.
One long term effect of this particular mRNA vaccine is known. Hundreds of thousands, to millions of human beings, won't die. That's the only known long term effect. At best, you're just paranoid. At worst, ready to ignore millions of deaths in favor of side effects that don't exist in reality, only in your imagination.
The point of mitigation process of a highly contagious virus isn't just about preventing deaths of the current virus. Even if what you said was true, deaths aren't the only concern for infected people as many have had health issues beyond the infection. Mitigation is most important in preventing mutations from happening like with the example of the Spanish flu for example which I'm sure you've heard plenty of times about during this pandemic. The Spanish flu started out in the US as a less deadly form but during the world war it mutated and ended up becoming significantly more deadly. Right now we're seeing the Delta variant spread that at least at first glance seems to be a more serious version. And how do mutations happen you ask? Well by the spreading of the virus through largely the unvaccinated population or course. The more people infected the higher statistical chance for a mutation to happen.
JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
No. It's my understanding that getting the vaccine can lessen the effects of an infection. I'm not anti-vaccine here I just don't think that everyone needs it. For older people and people with other health issues, I can totally understand why they would want to get the vaccine.
I'm just stridently against coercion. I don't believe most young people need a vaccine, and I also don't believe people with natural immunity need the vaccine. And everyone should be allowed to decide if they want to receive the vaccine or not.
I'd just ask that a stride against coercion be weighed against actions in self interest (and others).Chuckroast said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
No. It's my understanding that getting the vaccine can lessen the effects of an infection. I'm not anti-vaccine here I just don't think that everyone needs it. For older people and people with other health issues, I can totally understand why they would want to get the vaccine.
I'm just stridently against coercion. I don't believe most young people need a vaccine, and I also don't believe people with natural immunity need the vaccine. And everyone should be allowed to decide if they want to receive the vaccine or not.
I hope I've laid out the safety of the vaccine, and that the odds are more likely that you'll be hurt in the car ride over there than from the actual vaccine. Even if you stand to personally survive a bout with COVID, you'll likely spread it to others during the time frame between your infection and when you get symptoms. Being vaccinated greatly lessens the time that you could possibly spread an infection, if you were unlucky enough to get one.
History tells us that even the imperfect vaccines (they're all imperfect - including this one) of the past have allowed us to practically stomp out some terrifying threats to public health. I'm not old enough to remember Polio, but my mother is. I have friends who are transplant recipients. Their immune system is necessarily fragile to keep them from rejecting their transplanted organs. They're at great risk from COVID, and can't have the vaccine (for the most part). The vaccine isn't yet approved for children under 12. They're at risk.
My point is that the risk to an individual is practically nonexistent, especially compared to the background of living. The benefit to the individual is practically guaranteed. The benefit to the community is unmeasurable!
Don't be coerced, but think through it without inflammatory or passionate words. The vaccine is safe, effective, and is critical to the safety of others and stabilizing our way of life.
It does or did for small pox. It does for measles. it did for polio. It does for Hep C.JustWinBears said:BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
That line of thinking really makes no sense though if you understand the human body at all. A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that prevents infection. All it is is a means to prime your immune system to respond quicker when a foreign body is present. Just because the immune system responds quicker doesn't mean that an individual persons immune system is going to respond quick enough to prevent the pathogen from propagating enough to show up on tests or show symptoms. However with the quicker response time it makes the lag time between first exposure to full immune response much shorter and thus even if the person gets to the point of symptoms or enough viral load for testing positive, the symptoms and viral load will be significantly less and much shorter lived. That is why I was asking if you believe the infection of a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person were the same, because they definitely are not.
BUBBFAN said:It does or did for small pox. It does for measles. it did for polio. It does for Hep C.JustWinBears said:BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
That line of thinking really makes no sense though if you understand the human body at all. A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that prevents infection. All it is is a means to prime your immune system to respond quicker when a foreign body is present. Just because the immune system responds quicker doesn't mean that an individual persons immune system is going to respond quick enough to prevent the pathogen from propagating enough to show up on tests or show symptoms. However with the quicker response time it makes the lag time between first exposure to full immune response much shorter and thus even if the person gets to the point of symptoms or enough viral load for testing positive, the symptoms and viral load will be significantly less and much shorter lived. That is why I was asking if you believe the infection of a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person were the same, because they definitely are not.
Polio also had 3+ shots to get to an efficacy of 99-100%, at 2 shots it hovers around 90% just like the Covid vaccines. It also was due to an extremely effective vaccination program where the population at large got fully vaccinated creating true herd immunity. Right now we're only seeing 1-2 shots being given and no where close to herd immunity. Name dropping diseases that have been eradicated due to effective widespread vaccination isn't exactly the argument you think it is against the Covid vaccine.
BUBBFAN said:It does or did for small pox. It does for measles. it did for polio. It does for Hep C.JustWinBears said:BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
That line of thinking really makes no sense though if you understand the human body at all. A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that prevents infection. All it is is a means to prime your immune system to respond quicker when a foreign body is present. Just because the immune system responds quicker doesn't mean that an individual persons immune system is going to respond quick enough to prevent the pathogen from propagating enough to show up on tests or show symptoms. However with the quicker response time it makes the lag time between first exposure to full immune response much shorter and thus even if the person gets to the point of symptoms or enough viral load for testing positive, the symptoms and viral load will be significantly less and much shorter lived. That is why I was asking if you believe the infection of a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person were the same, because they definitely are not.
Traditional vaccines use an inactive or attenuated pathogen to stimulate an immune response. This vaccine causes your body to produce a protein that it would not otherwise produce in order to stimulate an immune response. They are hacking the building blocks of life.
What you fail to address is the effects the second time around when you body (vaccinated individuals) are exposed to another type of coronavirus. Are we to honestly assume that a vaccine was produced in record time using a process that never made it out of clinical trials with animals (God bless their dead souls)?Mr Tulip said:Let's go back to how vaccines work. The idea behind a vaccine is that you introduce something into the body, the body recognizes it as foreign, and activates the immune system to kill it. The immune system can create new processes to kill an invader it hasn't seen before, but it takes time and energy. If the immune system works fast enough, it starts killing the invader faster than the invader can reproduce. In that way, the body clears itself of the infection.BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
The cool thing is, once the body knows how to fight off the infection, it kind of remembers how to do it, so it can get on the job faster if it ever sees that type of invader again. The faster it can get going, the greater chance it has of getting out in front of the invader's ability to reproduce.
This vaccine creates the protein spike. It doesn't contain the spike. It contains the instructions to build one. Your body builds that protein structure, and the immune system reacts. The protein structure can't copy itself. You only make as many protein spikes as the vaccine injection allows you to. Your immune system gets itself going to kill those spikes, and is then ready to kill them in the future.
If a vaccinated person encounters "real" COVID, the COVID invaders can still get started. The immune system will be much faster to react, but it won't be instantaneous. Each individual's immune system is different, and dependent on age, nutrition, sleep, stress, etc. However, holding the two scenarios equal, the vaccinated person will be able to attack and clear the infection quicker than the non-vaccinated person.
It is practically a certainty that the infection would have been much worse in the non-vaccinated person, again holding all other parameters equal. However, evidence of COVID will be found in the snot of both individuals. RT-PCR tests are amazing!
I hope you've all got a trusted doctor or someone who gives you medical advice. Everybody has their own area of expertise, and we're going to have to rely on others in areas we're not learned in. I've described the mechanism of vaccination, how mRNA works, how the immune system works, and even provided the genome sequence so you can make it yourself. Please verify that information with your trusted medical source.
It's called Experimental for a reason. I would argue that everyone should do their own research, come to their own conclusion and make their own decision on whether they should or shouldn't take the jab.
Its silly for College sports to penalize teams if an outbreak occurs - when its been proven that even people who have been vaccinated are still getting Covid. I guess that in itself tells me its not really a vaccinator by definition.
Last month in the UK, more patients seen in the hospital had previously taken 1 or both shots - wanna guess which group had the largest death count....
Anyways, signing off...
The Flu (zero cases since 2019)
Idiotic post.PartyBear said:
It can't mutate if it is extinct.
Tulip wrote thousands of words of bloviating nonsense. Whatever.
Bottom line is that every single "expert", especially Saint Fauci, has been 100% wrong 100% of the time.
It started with "15 days to flatten the curve", and got worse from there. Anyone who thinks this virus is about anything other than money and control is kidding themselves.
We've killed more young people from substance abuse and suicide during these lockdowns than we've saved from cloth face-diapers and lockdowns.
Some of you people put more faith in a godless government than you do God himself.
Bottom line is that every single "expert", especially Saint Fauci, has been 100% wrong 100% of the time.
It started with "15 days to flatten the curve", and got worse from there. Anyone who thinks this virus is about anything other than money and control is kidding themselves.
We've killed more young people from substance abuse and suicide during these lockdowns than we've saved from cloth face-diapers and lockdowns.
Some of you people put more faith in a godless government than you do God himself.
Nick Saban hasn't screwed around. His team is 90% vaccinated already. It's part of a commitment to winning. It's only complicated when one works really hard to make it so, and this board at least excels at that.
You can use statistics to suggest that a person will likely not die from the vaccine over a short term perspective, but no one can claim to know what the effects are over the long term. There are many experts that are concerned about long term ramifications.Mr Tulip said:I'd just ask that a stride against coercion be weighed against actions in self interest (and others).Chuckroast said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
No. It's my understanding that getting the vaccine can lessen the effects of an infection. I'm not anti-vaccine here I just don't think that everyone needs it. For older people and people with other health issues, I can totally understand why they would want to get the vaccine.
I'm just stridently against coercion. I don't believe most young people need a vaccine, and I also don't believe people with natural immunity need the vaccine. And everyone should be allowed to decide if they want to receive the vaccine or not.
I hope I've laid out the safety of the vaccine, and that the odds are more likely that you'll be hurt in the car ride over there than from the actual vaccine. Even if you stand to personally survive a bout with COVID, you'll likely spread it to others during the time frame between your infection and when you get symptoms. Being vaccinated greatly lessens the time that you could possibly spread an infection, if you were unlucky enough to get one.
History tells us that even the imperfect vaccines (they're all imperfect - including this one) of the past have allowed us to practically stomp out some terrifying threats to public health. I'm not old enough to remember Polio, but my mother is. I have friends who are transplant recipients. Their immune system is necessarily fragile to keep them from rejecting their transplanted organs. They're at great risk from COVID, and can't have the vaccine (for the most part). The vaccine isn't yet approved for children under 12. They're at risk.
My point is that the risk to an individual is practically nonexistent, especially compared to the background of living. The benefit to the individual is practically guaranteed. The benefit to the community is unmeasurable!
Don't be coerced, but think through it without inflammatory or passionate words. The vaccine is safe, effective, and is critical to the safety of others and stabilizing our way of life.
Even over the short term, the short term adverse reactions to the shot seem to me to be unacceptable for an illness that has a 99.95%+ recovery rate in young people.
Carlos Cruz said:BUBBFAN said:It does or did for small pox. It does for measles. it did for polio. It does for Hep C.JustWinBears said:BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
That line of thinking really makes no sense though if you understand the human body at all. A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that prevents infection. All it is is a means to prime your immune system to respond quicker when a foreign body is present. Just because the immune system responds quicker doesn't mean that an individual persons immune system is going to respond quick enough to prevent the pathogen from propagating enough to show up on tests or show symptoms. However with the quicker response time it makes the lag time between first exposure to full immune response much shorter and thus even if the person gets to the point of symptoms or enough viral load for testing positive, the symptoms and viral load will be significantly less and much shorter lived. That is why I was asking if you believe the infection of a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person were the same, because they definitely are not.
Traditional vaccines use an inactive or attenuated pathogen to stimulate an immune response. This vaccine causes your body to produce a protein that it would not otherwise produce in order to stimulate an immune response. They are hacking the building blocks of life.
You keep living in fear. That's your right, I guess.Chuckroast said:You can use statistics to suggest that a person will likely not die from the vaccine over a short term perspective, but no one can claim to know what the effects are over the long term. There are many experts that are concerned about long term ramifications.Mr Tulip said:I'd just ask that a stride against coercion be weighed against actions in self interest (and others).Chuckroast said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
No. It's my understanding that getting the vaccine can lessen the effects of an infection. I'm not anti-vaccine here I just don't think that everyone needs it. For older people and people with other health issues, I can totally understand why they would want to get the vaccine.
I'm just stridently against coercion. I don't believe most young people need a vaccine, and I also don't believe people with natural immunity need the vaccine. And everyone should be allowed to decide if they want to receive the vaccine or not.
I hope I've laid out the safety of the vaccine, and that the odds are more likely that you'll be hurt in the car ride over there than from the actual vaccine. Even if you stand to personally survive a bout with COVID, you'll likely spread it to others during the time frame between your infection and when you get symptoms. Being vaccinated greatly lessens the time that you could possibly spread an infection, if you were unlucky enough to get one.
History tells us that even the imperfect vaccines (they're all imperfect - including this one) of the past have allowed us to practically stomp out some terrifying threats to public health. I'm not old enough to remember Polio, but my mother is. I have friends who are transplant recipients. Their immune system is necessarily fragile to keep them from rejecting their transplanted organs. They're at great risk from COVID, and can't have the vaccine (for the most part). The vaccine isn't yet approved for children under 12. They're at risk.
My point is that the risk to an individual is practically nonexistent, especially compared to the background of living. The benefit to the individual is practically guaranteed. The benefit to the community is unmeasurable!
Don't be coerced, but think through it without inflammatory or passionate words. The vaccine is safe, effective, and is critical to the safety of others and stabilizing our way of life.
Even over the short term, the short term adverse reactions to the shot seem to me to be unacceptable for an illness that has a 99.95%+ recovery rate in young people.
Now let's get the conversation back to Baylor athletics....not your irrelevant personal beliefs and choices.
I'm not using statistics. I'm using the mechanism by which the vaccine works. Nobody would ever say something like "it can't possibly fail" (that's "arguing from lack of imagination" - just because I can't see how it would doesn't mean it can't), but any pathway to long term effects from the vaccine would have to be convoluted to the point where other well understood biological processes will likely occur first.Chuckroast said:You can use statistics to suggest that a person will likely not die from the vaccine over a short term perspective, but no one can claim to know what the effects are over the long term. There are many experts that are concerned about long term ramifications.Mr Tulip said:I'd just ask that a stride against coercion be weighed against actions in self interest (and others).Chuckroast said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
No. It's my understanding that getting the vaccine can lessen the effects of an infection. I'm not anti-vaccine here I just don't think that everyone needs it. For older people and people with other health issues, I can totally understand why they would want to get the vaccine.
I'm just stridently against coercion. I don't believe most young people need a vaccine, and I also don't believe people with natural immunity need the vaccine. And everyone should be allowed to decide if they want to receive the vaccine or not.
I hope I've laid out the safety of the vaccine, and that the odds are more likely that you'll be hurt in the car ride over there than from the actual vaccine. Even if you stand to personally survive a bout with COVID, you'll likely spread it to others during the time frame between your infection and when you get symptoms. Being vaccinated greatly lessens the time that you could possibly spread an infection, if you were unlucky enough to get one.
History tells us that even the imperfect vaccines (they're all imperfect - including this one) of the past have allowed us to practically stomp out some terrifying threats to public health. I'm not old enough to remember Polio, but my mother is. I have friends who are transplant recipients. Their immune system is necessarily fragile to keep them from rejecting their transplanted organs. They're at great risk from COVID, and can't have the vaccine (for the most part). The vaccine isn't yet approved for children under 12. They're at risk.
My point is that the risk to an individual is practically nonexistent, especially compared to the background of living. The benefit to the individual is practically guaranteed. The benefit to the community is unmeasurable!
Don't be coerced, but think through it without inflammatory or passionate words. The vaccine is safe, effective, and is critical to the safety of others and stabilizing our way of life.
Even over the short term, the short term adverse reactions to the shot seem to me to be unacceptable for an illness that has a 99.95%+ recovery rate in young people.
Over the "short term", the adverse effects essentially mimic a lesser case of COVID. An actual COVID infection has established short and long term effects. You're arguing imagined harm against demonstrable harm.
Yes over 500 folks have died from covid that had the vaccine, however the vaccine has saved about 250,000 lives in 5 months.
It sounds like you mean this to be a negative statement. It is, however, a wonderful thing.Chuckroast said:Carlos Cruz said:BUBBFAN said:It does or did for small pox. It does for measles. it did for polio. It does for Hep C.JustWinBears said:BUBBFAN said:JustWinBears said:Chuckroast said:Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.Mr Tulip said:I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:Chuckroast said:Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?muddybrazos said:No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.PartyBear said:
Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.
By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.
People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.
Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.
The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.
Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?
People who have been vaccinated are testing positive. That leads me to believe that either the vaccine doesn't work or the test is faulty. Call me what you will, but I think it is both.
That line of thinking really makes no sense though if you understand the human body at all. A vaccine isn't a magic bubble that prevents infection. All it is is a means to prime your immune system to respond quicker when a foreign body is present. Just because the immune system responds quicker doesn't mean that an individual persons immune system is going to respond quick enough to prevent the pathogen from propagating enough to show up on tests or show symptoms. However with the quicker response time it makes the lag time between first exposure to full immune response much shorter and thus even if the person gets to the point of symptoms or enough viral load for testing positive, the symptoms and viral load will be significantly less and much shorter lived. That is why I was asking if you believe the infection of a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person were the same, because they definitely are not.
Traditional vaccines use an inactive or attenuated pathogen to stimulate an immune response. This vaccine causes your body to produce a protein that it would not otherwise produce in order to stimulate an immune response. They are hacking the building blocks of life.
Using dead, weakened, or otherwise manipulated actual pathogens is fiddly business. I can turn a live roach into a dead roach with certainty. I can (usually) turn a live virus into a dead one with certainty. Turning a live roach into a "not completely dead but still sort of functional but at the same time roach-like" isn't clear. Doing it to a lot of things and being sure you've done it right gets complicated quickly. Quality control becomes an issue. A mistake in creating a batch of the Polio vaccine killed lots of people when the vaccine wasn't dead enough.
The mRNA vaccine technique is wondrous! It's an offshoot of several other long studied techniques. In my lifetime (I'll be 50 in the fall), we've gone from recognizing DNA to laboring to decode one single strand to being able to identify exact genomes at will.
Since we can decode genomes, we decoded the COVID-19 one. We isolated the part that contains instructions for the spike. We mixed up a soup that contained only the instructions (again, NOT the actual spike itself) on how to build only the spike.
It should be noted that there isn't anything in the vaccine that isn't in your body already. Your body contains DNA and all types of RNA (there's 4 main types and a dozen or so sub-types). Your body also contains the amino acids necessary to build proteins, and the proteins build cell structures. Cell structures become cells. Cells become organs or tissue or what-have-you.
Your body therefore creates RNA types as needed. Those RNA types are instructions to the body on how to organize the aforementioned amino acids and proteins into what the body's asking for. All the vaccine does is supply an instruction set to make a spike. As is the case with all RNA, the instructions are destroyed in the process of making the structure. Once the spikes are created, there's no more vaccine RNA in your body. There are spikes. The spikes get attacked by the immune system, and you become "immunized".
In the next 10 years (even that's a little long of an estimate), you'll see this technique used to treat diseases we never thought we'd be able to treat.
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How long do you want to ignore this user?
Why are you not comparing recovery rates? You are comparing adverse reactions to recovery rates. I'm guessing it's because you don't know what you are talking about
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