It's been difficult vaccine conversations on going for Dave Aranda and Baylor

9,287 Views | 162 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by Amal Shuq-Up
Amal Shuq-Up
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joseywales said:

Yes over 500 folks have died from covid that had the vaccine, however the vaccine has saved about 250,000 lives in 5 months.
Ignoring Farr's Law, I would say the magic shot saved 8 billion people's lives from the magic virus. The shot is just that good. And the virus is just that deadly.
ShooterTX
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All the info I have seen, and confirmed with multiple doctors... The vaccine doesn't prevent someone from GETTING the virus. It prevents someone from having a bad reaction to the virus. In many cases, people with the vax get Covid and never know it.

This is great, but it does NOTHING for NCAA sports when they are constantly testing everyone. Those with and without the vax will still get it and still test positive... so forfeiting games is going to be a reality.

The big difference is recovery time and staying in shape. If you have the vax, you will have a less severe reaction (or no reaction at all) and so getting back to prime playing condition will be much easier. That's the only realistic advantage from getting the vax. As long as testing continues, there will be missed games... vax won't affect that at all. Even if the NCAA declares that 100% vax teams can be exempt from testing, it is likely that someone with the vax will get exposed. If that someone is doing intense workouts (which should be the entire team), there is a chance that their immune system will weaken, and they will begin to show symptoms. There is NO WAY the NCAA will drop testing for players who present with symptoms. Once that individual tests positive, then everyone starts testing, regardless of vax status... and we are right back into the 2020 season again.

I'm all for anyone taking the vax if they want it. My only thought is that IF there are any side effects from the vax, the most vulnerable to those side effects would be young people. In other words, the people least likely to have long term negative side effects from the virus are healthy young people, but the they are also the ones with the most risk from vax side effects.

I can totally see why a player would not want the vax, and would rather take their chances (better than 98%) with the virus. In the end, it should be their decision, and not up to the NCAA or any school to force them.
ShooterTX
Wichitabear
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OsoVerde said:

Does Baylor require vaccines for students for other communicable diseases like measles and such?
You have to present a shot record if I remember. Parents who have kids that go to Baylor should be able to answer this. They should require those vaccines right along with the meningitis vaccine
clubhi
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ShooterTX said:

All the info I have seen, and confirmed with multiple doctors... The vaccine doesn't prevent someone from GETTING the virus. It prevents someone from having a bad reaction to the virus. In many cases, people with the vax get Covid and never know it.

This is great, but it does NOTHING for NCAA sports when they are constantly testing everyone. Those with and without the vax will still get it and still test positive... so forfeiting games is going to be a reality.

The big difference is recovery time and staying in shape. If you have the vax, you will have a less severe reaction (or no reaction at all) and so getting back to prime playing condition will be much easier. That's the only realistic advantage from getting the vax. As long as testing continues, there will be missed games... vax won't affect that at all. Even if the NCAA declares that 100% vax teams can be exempt from testing, it is likely that someone with the vax will get exposed. If that someone is doing intense workouts (which should be the entire team), there is a chance that their immune system will weaken, and they will begin to show symptoms. There is NO WAY the NCAA will drop testing for players who present with symptoms. Once that individual tests positive, then everyone starts testing, regardless of vax status... and we are right back into the 2020 season again.

I'm all for anyone taking the vax if they want it. My only thought is that IF there are any side effects from the vax, the most vulnerable to those side effects would be young people. In other words, the people least likely to have long term negative side effects from the virus are healthy young people, but the they are also the ones with the most risk from vax side effects.

I can totally see why a player would not want the vax, and would rather take their chances (better than 98%) with the virus. In the end, it should be their decision, and not up to the NCAA or any school to force them.
COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19, especially severe illness and death. COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.
Chuckroast
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Zerooreo said:

Chuckroast said:

Mr Tulip said:

Chuckroast said:

JustWinBears said:

Chuckroast said:

Mr Tulip said:

Chuckroast said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Agreed. What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid. By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all. People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I've got to dissect this piece by piece:

What is not being discussed is the natural immunity that millions of people have after recovering from covid.
A person who successfully recovers from COVID will have an immunity. True.

By all accounts, that is the best immunity of all.
What accounts? If anything, they should have exactly the same immunity. The vaccine incites the body's immune response in a controlled way. Getting an active COVID infection would activate that same response, but in an uncontrolled manner. Recovering from an active COVID infection, assuming no lasting damage from fighting it, would offer no more immunity than the vaccine.

People that have recovered from covid already have better immunity than the shot can provide so why take any additional risk when it provides no reward?
Again, this is patently untrue. They may have the same immunity, but no better. As for risk, I hope I've demonstrated that the vaccine has no articulable risk. Actually getting COVID, on the other hand, has real risk.

Please trust your healthcare provider. It could be that you've got a preexisting condition that changes the calculus. It's because those individuals exist that the rest of us should get vaccinated. The shutdown and isolation orders that bought time earlier won't be coming this round. We have the tools to prevent a lot of suffering.

Look, I can't sit here and quote all the accounts of studies that I've read, but there are many experts who point out that the natural immunity we receive from an actual SARS infection stays with us many years and even decades. On the other hand, there are already studies suggesting that the efficacy of the covid vaccine wears off, and some are already discussing annual boosters. We've all already heard countless accounts of fully vaccinated people getting covid. I'm not hearing countless stories of people with natural immunity getting re-infected. From what I am reading, it is quite rare.

The fact that we're only allowed to hear one side of the argument from big tech and big pharma is incredibly disturbing. If anyone relies only on the mainstream media and government agencies to form their opinion, it's no wonder they come out pro vaccine.


Is my understanding correct that you believe that infection after vaccination is equal to infection without vaccination?


No. It's my understanding that getting the vaccine can lessen the effects of an infection. I'm not anti-vaccine here I just don't think that everyone needs it. For older people and people with other health issues, I can totally understand why they would want to get the vaccine.

I'm just stridently against coercion. I don't believe most young people need a vaccine, and I also don't believe people with natural immunity need the vaccine. And everyone should be allowed to decide if they want to receive the vaccine or not.

I'd just ask that a stride against coercion be weighed against actions in self interest (and others).

I hope I've laid out the safety of the vaccine, and that the odds are more likely that you'll be hurt in the car ride over there than from the actual vaccine. Even if you stand to personally survive a bout with COVID, you'll likely spread it to others during the time frame between your infection and when you get symptoms. Being vaccinated greatly lessens the time that you could possibly spread an infection, if you were unlucky enough to get one.

History tells us that even the imperfect vaccines (they're all imperfect - including this one) of the past have allowed us to practically stomp out some terrifying threats to public health. I'm not old enough to remember Polio, but my mother is. I have friends who are transplant recipients. Their immune system is necessarily fragile to keep them from rejecting their transplanted organs. They're at great risk from COVID, and can't have the vaccine (for the most part). The vaccine isn't yet approved for children under 12. They're at risk.

My point is that the risk to an individual is practically nonexistent, especially compared to the background of living. The benefit to the individual is practically guaranteed. The benefit to the community is unmeasurable!

Don't be coerced, but think through it without inflammatory or passionate words. The vaccine is safe, effective, and is critical to the safety of others and stabilizing our way of life.
You can use statistics to suggest that a person will likely not die from the vaccine over a short term perspective, but no one can claim to know what the effects are over the long term. There are many experts that are concerned about long term ramifications.

Even over the short term, the short term adverse reactions to the shot seem to me to be unacceptable for an illness that has a 99.95%+ recovery rate in young people.
You keep living in fear. That's your right, I guess.

Now let's get the conversation back to Baylor athletics....not your irrelevant personal beliefs and choices.


Requiring someone who has already recovered from COVID to get the shot seems to be living in fear. I'm in good company with Coach Aranda, Peter McCullough, and countless other doctors and virologists when it comes to taking a more nuanced approach with young people and those with natural immunity.
Chuckroast
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For anyone who's interested, here is a link to a brand new study on natural immunity: https://news.emory.edu/stories/2021/07/covid_survivors_resistance/index.html

There are others like it.
JoshuaGeach
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so this is already normal
Timbear
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A problem is that no one risks death to get an annual flu shot, but with the Covid vaccine, you do.
D. C. Bear
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Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.
Norman Dale
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D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.
D. C. Bear
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Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Norman Dale
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D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"


Cite a post of mine that is "wild fear mongering"
Proud 1992 Alum
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ShooterTX said:

All the info I have seen, and confirmed with multiple doctors... The vaccine doesn't prevent someone from GETTING the virus. It prevents someone from having a bad reaction to the virus. In many cases, people with the vax get Covid and never know it.

This is great, but it does NOTHING for NCAA sports when they are constantly testing everyone. Those with and without the vax will still get it and still test positive... so forfeiting games is going to be a reality.

The big difference is recovery time and staying in shape. If you have the vax, you will have a less severe reaction (or no reaction at all) and so getting back to prime playing condition will be much easier. That's the only realistic advantage from getting the vax. As long as testing continues, there will be missed games... vax won't affect that at all. Even if the NCAA declares that 100% vax teams can be exempt from testing, it is likely that someone with the vax will get exposed. If that someone is doing intense workouts (which should be the entire team), there is a chance that their immune system will weaken, and they will begin to show symptoms. There is NO WAY the NCAA will drop testing for players who present with symptoms. Once that individual tests positive, then everyone starts testing, regardless of vax status... and we are right back into the 2020 season again.

I'm all for anyone taking the vax if they want it. My only thought is that IF there are any side effects from the vax, the most vulnerable to those side effects would be young people. In other words, the people least likely to have long term negative side effects from the virus are healthy young people, but the they are also the ones with the most risk from vax side effects.

I can totally see why a player would not want the vax, and would rather take their chances (better than 98%) with the virus. In the end, it should be their decision, and not up to the NCAA or any school to force them.


My understanding is that if a player gets vaxxed, then they are exempt from testing and contact tracing.
clubhi
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Timbear said:

A problem is that no one risks death to get an annual flu shot, but with the Covid vaccine, you do.
There is a much better chance you'd die on the way to your anti-vaxx protest than to die from the vaccine.
jt888
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I see a lot of sheep in here.....do as they are told, think as they are told, and say as they are told
BUBBFAN
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jt888 said:

I see a lot of sheep in here.....do as they are told, think as they are told, and say as they are told
Amen
clubhi
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jt888 said:

I see a lot of sheep in here.....do as they are told, think as they are told, and say as they are told
if your lord is your shepherd what do you think you are
D. C. Bear
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Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"


Cite a post of mine that is "wild fear mongering"


I am not going to go rehash the multiple lies you have offered up over many months.
Norman Dale
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D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"


Cite a post of mine that is "wild fear mongering"


I am not going to go rehash the multiple lies you have offered up over many months.


Post one lie
Porteroso
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jt888 said:

I see a lot of sheep in here.....do as they are told, think as they are told, and say as they are told

I know. Some of you took Kamela a little too seriously when she said she wouldn't get the vaccine.

It would be great for players to get the vaccine, if they will have to sit out if they are covid positive. The vaccines do protect against infection.

Also the delta variant is particularly good at infecting vaccinated people, but by November we might be talking about a different variant, which the vaccines may be more effective against.
Chuckroast
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D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.

historian
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clubhi said:

jt888 said:

I see a lot of sheep in here.....do as they are told, think as they are told, and say as they are told
if your lord is your shepherd what do you think you are

Dr Fauci is not God. Neither is Biden or any other govt official.
“Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
I Corinthians 10:31
D. C. Bear
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Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Chuckroast
How long do you want to ignore this user?
D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.


I understand what you were saying. For what it's worth, I never said that the deaths were caused by the vaccine. I understand that autopsies would need to be performed to confirm. I also understand that reported adverse events are only a fraction of the adverse events that actually occur. The reporting system is what it is, and the truth is still that the shot has had hundreds of thousands of adverse events reported. To dismiss those reports as meaningless simply because deaths or adverse events cannot be confirmed without an autopsy is a risk you can take if you want. There is still a very high statistical correlation. and probably more important than any of that, we still don't know what the long-term effects might be.
Timbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Since being vaxxed does not prevent getting Covid, is it fair to give an "L" to a team that have all been vaxxed who have some players who get it?
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.


I understand what you were saying. For what it's worth, I never said that the deaths were caused by the vaccine. I understand that autopsies would need to be performed to confirm. I also understand that reported adverse events are only a fraction of the adverse events that actually occur. The reporting system is what it is, and the truth is still that the shot has had hundreds of thousands of adverse events reported. To dismiss those reports as meaningless simply because deaths or adverse events cannot be confirmed without an autopsy is a risk you can take if you want. There is still a very high statistical correlation. and probably more important than any of that, we still don't know what the long-term effects might be.


Kind of hard to perform an autopsy on a living person.
What percentage of vaccinated individuals need to experience an adverse event (vaccine related or not) for you consider it a "very high statistical correlation?"
Chuckroast
How long do you want to ignore this user?
D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.


I understand what you were saying. For what it's worth, I never said that the deaths were caused by the vaccine. I understand that autopsies would need to be performed to confirm. I also understand that reported adverse events are only a fraction of the adverse events that actually occur. The reporting system is what it is, and the truth is still that the shot has had hundreds of thousands of adverse events reported. To dismiss those reports as meaningless simply because deaths or adverse events cannot be confirmed without an autopsy is a risk you can take if you want. There is still a very high statistical correlation. and probably more important than any of that, we still don't know what the long-term effects might be.


Kind of hard to perform an autopsy on a living person.
What percentage of vaccinated individuals need to experience an adverse event (vaccine related or not) for you consider it a "very high statistical correlation?"



I noticed my quote right after I posted and figured readers would understand what I meant, so I didn't bother editing. If you want to be petty, that's fine.

When this vaccine has more adverse events reported than all other vaccines combined over something like the last 20 years, I don't think you need to delve into the specifics of every single case to know that we're taking a really risky shot that can only be justified by an emergency. However, statistics don't show that getting covid is an emergency for college football players.
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.


I understand what you were saying. For what it's worth, I never said that the deaths were caused by the vaccine. I understand that autopsies would need to be performed to confirm. I also understand that reported adverse events are only a fraction of the adverse events that actually occur. The reporting system is what it is, and the truth is still that the shot has had hundreds of thousands of adverse events reported. To dismiss those reports as meaningless simply because deaths or adverse events cannot be confirmed without an autopsy is a risk you can take if you want. There is still a very high statistical correlation. and probably more important than any of that, we still don't know what the long-term effects might be.


Kind of hard to perform an autopsy on a living person.
What percentage of vaccinated individuals need to experience an adverse event (vaccine related or not) for you consider it a "very high statistical correlation?"



I noticed my quote right after I posted and figured readers would understand what I meant, so I didn't bother editing. If you want to be petty, that's fine.

When this vaccine has more adverse events reported than all other vaccines combined over something like the last 20 years, I don't think you need to delve into the specifics of every single case to know that we're taking a really risky shot that can only be justified by an emergency. However, statistics don't show that getting covid is an emergency for college football players.


Not petty. Humor.

When you change the rules for reporting to include any adverse event that may or may not be related to the vaccine instead including events that medical professionals have reason to believe are related to the vaccine, you might get some higher raw numbers, and when you vaccinate 190 million people, you are going to get higher raw numbers reported. You stated that there is a very high statistical correlation between the vaccine and adverse events. If you know there is a high statistical correlation, you must have a number in mind for what constitutes a high statistical correlation. What number, in your view, is required for it to be classified as a high statistical correlation?
LondonBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.


I understand what you were saying. For what it's worth, I never said that the deaths were caused by the vaccine. I understand that autopsies would need to be performed to confirm. I also understand that reported adverse events are only a fraction of the adverse events that actually occur. The reporting system is what it is, and the truth is still that the shot has had hundreds of thousands of adverse events reported. To dismiss those reports as meaningless simply because deaths or adverse events cannot be confirmed without an autopsy is a risk you can take if you want. There is still a very high statistical correlation. and probably more important than any of that, we still don't know what the long-term effects might be.


Kind of hard to perform an autopsy on a living person.
What percentage of vaccinated individuals need to experience an adverse event (vaccine related or not) for you consider it a "very high statistical correlation?"



I noticed my quote right after I posted and figured readers would understand what I meant, so I didn't bother editing. If you want to be petty, that's fine.

When this vaccine has more adverse events reported than all other vaccines combined over something like the last 20 years, I don't think you need to delve into the specifics of every single case to know that we're taking a really risky shot that can only be justified by an emergency. However, statistics don't show that getting covid is an emergency for college football players.


Not petty. Humor.

When you change the rules for reporting to include any adverse event that may or may not be related to the vaccine instead including events that medical professionals have reason to believe are related to the vaccine, you might get some higher raw numbers, and when you vaccinate 190 million people, you are going to get higher raw numbers reported. You stated that there is a very high statistical correlation between the vaccine and adverse events. If you know there is a high statistical correlation, you must have a number in mind for what constitutes a high statistical correlation. What number, in your view, is required for it to be classified as a high statistical correlation?
You are missing the point. Very true that more people have died from this vaccine that ALL prior vaccines combined. In fact, when 40 people died from the Swine Flu vaccine it was recalled - why isn't that case for this vaccine when over 10K had died since.....don't remember masks being required for Swine flu since "they don't work" according to Dr. F......Well, all virus are similar in the size/spread rate - so why do masks now work? Why do we call it a Vaccine when you can still catch Covid? I don't take a Polio shot every year.

Trials aren't set to be completed until 2023. I think anyone who takes this poison is setting themselves up for a long or potential short painful remainder of life.

May you rest in peace...

D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LondonBear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

D. C. Bear said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

muddybrazos said:

PartyBear said:

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.
No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.
Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.
yes...some schools and businesses are attempting to enforce mandatory vaccinations. and everyone should be against those mandates.

none of the vaccines have even been fully approved...btw. and some want to mandate them. the world has gone mad over the vaccination issue.


I say this as someone who as a rule does not approve of mandates for the COVID vaccine. The status of EUA vs. full approval is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be mandated, and your view will not change at all when, not if, a vaccine is "fully approved." You will simply claim that the FDA is lying about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine because that is what you do. Nothing more of note is going to be learned about these vaccines before they are approved. Your wild fear mongering is the kind of crap that kept my now COVID positive and rather miserable friend from getting the vaccine while his similarly COVID-exposed wife, who listened to actual information about the vaccine and took it, remains negative for the virus.


Instead of discussing the actual point I made - you personally attack. Nice.

You are insufferable.


Quit whining.

I am addressing points you have made in the past and this post today. It is not a "personal attack" to characterize your posts as wild fear mongering. They are what they are.

Guaranteed when these vaccines are approved, you will not say, "Hey look, the FDA has fully approved these vaccines! They are safe and effective after all! You should call your doctor to arrange getting one!"
Many thousands of deaths have been reported as adverse vaccine events in both the US and the EU as well as hundreds of thousands of other adverse events. It is also estimated that only a small fraction of adverse events are ever reported. While that may be a small percentage of the millions that have been vaccinated, many experts contend that for young people the risks posed by the vaccine outweigh the risks of getting the disease (99.95+% covid survival rate for the young). And we still have no clue what the long term effects of the vaccine will be. It's fear mongering to demand that college football players get the shot.




Many thousands of people have died at a point in time after they have taken the vaccine. Some have falsely claimed that these "many thousands" died as a result of the vaccine. "Norman Dale," for example, falsely claimed that Hank Aaron died as a result of a cytokine storm, even though he died in his sleep with no symptoms of a cytokine storm.

I have looked at the VAERS system for COVID and it includes many deaths of people who died for other reasons, like cancer or vehicle accidents. Assuming that estimates made in the past about adverse reactions being reported were accurate (a big assumption to begin with), it is not reasonable to apply that to the COVID numbers because the reporting requirements are different. With COVID, there is no expectation that the medical professionals doing most of the reporting (and anyone, even you or me, can report something whether or not someone actually died) should think the vaccine was related to the death. This is different from other vaccines where the person reporting the reaction should think it was related to the vaccine. The level of monitoring is such that they found half a dozen or so blood clot cases and paused one of the vaccines.

College football players, like everyone else, should consult with their physicians. There is no indication that the risks of the vaccine are greater than the risk of the disease, even for younger people, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.


I understand what you were saying. For what it's worth, I never said that the deaths were caused by the vaccine. I understand that autopsies would need to be performed to confirm. I also understand that reported adverse events are only a fraction of the adverse events that actually occur. The reporting system is what it is, and the truth is still that the shot has had hundreds of thousands of adverse events reported. To dismiss those reports as meaningless simply because deaths or adverse events cannot be confirmed without an autopsy is a risk you can take if you want. There is still a very high statistical correlation. and probably more important than any of that, we still don't know what the long-term effects might be.


Kind of hard to perform an autopsy on a living person.
What percentage of vaccinated individuals need to experience an adverse event (vaccine related or not) for you consider it a "very high statistical correlation?"



I noticed my quote right after I posted and figured readers would understand what I meant, so I didn't bother editing. If you want to be petty, that's fine.

When this vaccine has more adverse events reported than all other vaccines combined over something like the last 20 years, I don't think you need to delve into the specifics of every single case to know that we're taking a really risky shot that can only be justified by an emergency. However, statistics don't show that getting covid is an emergency for college football players.


Not petty. Humor.

When you change the rules for reporting to include any adverse event that may or may not be related to the vaccine instead including events that medical professionals have reason to believe are related to the vaccine, you might get some higher raw numbers, and when you vaccinate 190 million people, you are going to get higher raw numbers reported. You stated that there is a very high statistical correlation between the vaccine and adverse events. If you know there is a high statistical correlation, you must have a number in mind for what constitutes a high statistical correlation. What number, in your view, is required for it to be classified as a high statistical correlation?
You are missing the point. Very true that more people have died from this vaccine that ALL prior vaccines combined. In fact, when 40 people died from the Swine Flu vaccine it was recalled - why isn't that case for this vaccine when over 10K had died since.....don't remember masks being required for Swine flu since "they don't work" according to Dr. F......Well, all virus are similar in the size/spread rate - so why do masks now work? Why do we call it a Vaccine when you can still catch Covid? I don't take a Polio shot every year.

Trials aren't set to be completed until 2023. I think anyone who takes this poison is setting themselves up for a long or potential short painful remainder of life.

May you rest in peace...





1. There is no evidence that people are dying from this vaccine in numbers that are unusual. When about three people died, they paused the Johnson and Johnson vaccine and figured out what was going on. This 10,000+ deaths figure you cite is not 10,000 deaths from the vaccine. It is 10,000+ people who died of various causes (including cancer, COVID and car wrecks) at some point after being vaccinated. Why is this so hard for some to comprehend?

2. Masks may or may not do much, I tend to think they don't do a lot, but viruses are not all similar in how they spread. Even different variants of the same virus spread at different rates.

4. Trials for the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were completed last year, before the applications for an emergency use authorization were submitted. Monitoring after the trials are completed is standard procedure. That is where you are getting the 2023 date.

5. Why do we call it a vaccine if you can still catch COVID? We call it a vaccine because it introduces an antigen to the body that allows the immune system to recognize and deal with the virus it is designed to target. That is what a vaccine is, that is what a vaccine does, and that is why we call it a vaccine. Vaccines do not prevent every individual from contracting an illness, but in many cases they do prevent individuals from contracting it. You don't take a polio shot every year because the effect of a polio shot is long lasting. Some vaccines require boosters. Tetanus, for example, requires another shot every 10 years, as does Yellow Fever. Cholera vaccines are effective for about six months.

You have offered a collection of half truths, whole lies and poorly conceived arguments.
LondonBear
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the definition of a vaccine is : a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases.......So, what's your definition of "provide immunity"...

Do a little research before you disregard the 10,000 deaths. It's out there on several GOVERNMENT based website.

The clinic trials are not complete until 2023. Period. It's on the submitted forms to the CDC. Again, do some research...

"there is no evidence that people are dying from the vaccine in numbers that are unusual".....What? More people have died from this vaccine than ALL previous vaccines combined....Do your research

If you want to take something being pushed by someone who has several times stated he supports global depopulation, then knock yourself out.

Baylor should not be pushing this on their students and student/Athletes.

D. C. Bear
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LondonBear said:

the definition of a vaccine is : a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases.......So, what's your definition of "provide immunity"...

Do a little research before you disregard the 10,000 deaths. It's out there on several GOVERNMENT based website.

The clinic trials are not complete until 2023. Period. It's on the submitted forms to the CDC. Again, do some research...

"there is no evidence that people are dying from the vaccine in numbers that are unusual".....What? More people have died from this vaccine than ALL previous vaccines combined....Do your research

If you want to take something being pushed by someone who has several times stated he supports global depopulation, then knock yourself out.

Baylor should not be pushing this on their students and student/Athletes.




1. The COVID vaccines do exactly that. Stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity.

2. The clinical trials for Moderna and Pfizer's vaccines are complete and were completed last year. Ongoing safety and efficacy monitoring continues for a longer period, as it does routinely with other vaccines, but the clinical trials ended and the data from those trials has already been submitted for FDA approval, not just authorization.

3. Go read the VAERS site for yourself. I did. It does not record deaths, or even adverse events caused by the vaccines. It is a system to capture all manner of potential problems with the the vaccine so that researchers can detect whether there are significant concerns.

4. You keep on saying "do some research," but you keep on saying things that are absolutely not supported by research and show that you do not understand what you are talking about. So, I would have to say to you, learn how to do research, learn how to evaluate information and learn the difference between research and the meme that popped up on your social media. You are being played.
Chuckroast
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D. C. Bear said:

LondonBear said:

the definition of a vaccine is : a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases.......So, what's your definition of "provide immunity"...

Do a little research before you disregard the 10,000 deaths. It's out there on several GOVERNMENT based website.

The clinic trials are not complete until 2023. Period. It's on the submitted forms to the CDC. Again, do some research...

"there is no evidence that people are dying from the vaccine in numbers that are unusual".....What? More people have died from this vaccine than ALL previous vaccines combined....Do your research

If you want to take something being pushed by someone who has several times stated he supports global depopulation, then knock yourself out.

Baylor should not be pushing this on their students and student/Athletes.




1. The COVID vaccines do exactly that. Stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity.

2. The clinical trials for Moderna and Pfizer's vaccines are complete and were completed last year. Ongoing safety and efficacy monitoring continues for a longer period, as it does routinely with other vaccines, but the clinical trials ended and the data from those trials has already been submitted for FDA approval, not just authorization.

3. Go read the VAERS site for yourself. I did. It does not record deaths, or even adverse events caused by the vaccines. It is a system to capture all manner of potential problems with the the vaccine so that researchers can detect whether there are significant concerns.

4. You keep on saying "do some research," but you keep on saying things that are absolutely not supported by research and show that you do not understand what you are talking about. So, I would have to say to you, learn how to do research, learn how to evaluate information and learn the difference between research and the meme that popped up on your social media. You are being played.



By your logic, you'd disregard VAERS for showing 10 million deaths unless there is definitive linkage to the shot. What's a big enough number to get your attention?
D. C. Bear
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Chuckroast said:

D. C. Bear said:

LondonBear said:

the definition of a vaccine is : a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases.......So, what's your definition of "provide immunity"...

Do a little research before you disregard the 10,000 deaths. It's out there on several GOVERNMENT based website.

The clinic trials are not complete until 2023. Period. It's on the submitted forms to the CDC. Again, do some research...

"there is no evidence that people are dying from the vaccine in numbers that are unusual".....What? More people have died from this vaccine than ALL previous vaccines combined....Do your research

If you want to take something being pushed by someone who has several times stated he supports global depopulation, then knock yourself out.

Baylor should not be pushing this on their students and student/Athletes.




1. The COVID vaccines do exactly that. Stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity.

2. The clinical trials for Moderna and Pfizer's vaccines are complete and were completed last year. Ongoing safety and efficacy monitoring continues for a longer period, as it does routinely with other vaccines, but the clinical trials ended and the data from those trials has already been submitted for FDA approval, not just authorization.

3. Go read the VAERS site for yourself. I did. It does not record deaths, or even adverse events caused by the vaccines. It is a system to capture all manner of potential problems with the the vaccine so that researchers can detect whether there are significant concerns.

4. You keep on saying "do some research," but you keep on saying things that are absolutely not supported by research and show that you do not understand what you are talking about. So, I would have to say to you, learn how to do research, learn how to evaluate information and learn the difference between research and the meme that popped up on your social media. You are being played.



By your logic, you'd disregard VAERS for showing 10 million deaths unless there is definitive linkage to the shot. What's a big enough number to get your attention?


Three.
Forest Bueller_bf
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Zerooreo said:

Norman Dale said:

Zerooreo said:

Gunny Hartman said:

Zerooreo said:

PartyBear said:

...and in the meantime forfeit games should this happen to a program that does not mandate the vaccine? There is alot more riding on this decision of a player on scholarship at a school and now perhaps even being paid in some way than just the players' choice. Does Aranda also tell them they do not need to participate in the nutrition and conditioning program and they can eat all their meals a Burger King now as well if that is what they choose to do with their body?
Yep, this whole thing could end very badly.......

Program has to forfeit 2-3 (or more) games due to this silliness
Program ends season at 3-9
Mack offers no refunds for games (product) not delivered to paying fans
Mack sticks to the company line "your money goes to the support of hundreds of student athlete"
Linda begs everyone to shine the light
Fans get pissed at program that had such a simple decision to make
Fans cancel donations and season tickets
Program spirals
Top coaching talent leaves
Mack reaches out to Coach Guy Morriss asking if he'd be interested in leading the Baylor football program again


Just require the vaccine to be on the team. Kids can still make their choice - team or self.

Which part of the factual concept that the vax won't prevent someone from testing positive in the future is the most difficult part for you to understand?

Scientifically supported and widely publicized by the media, 99% of the vaccinated do not test positive nor contract the virus or any of its known variants.

So I would bet on the 99% odds versus the 1%. Not too difficult IMO.
that is not accurate at all
Then prove me wrong with scientific reports and/or national media reports.

We are being told nationally that 99% of new cases are in the unvaccinated, and 99.7% of deaths are in the unvaccinated. Widely reported on all major outlets.

Quote:

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.
Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.
  • Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.
  • But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%.
  • Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
  • The study found similar results in other states. For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

The thing that upsets me about this study is I took both of the Pfizer shots. Now it looks like they aren't all that good at stopping Covid.
 
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