PartyBear said:

---

...and in the meantime forfeit games should this happen to a program that does not mandate the vaccine? There is alot more riding on this decision of a player on scholarship at a school and now perhaps even being paid in some way than just the players' choice. Does Aranda also tell them they do not need to participate in the nutrition and conditioning program and they can eat all their meals a Burger King now as well if that is what they choose to do with their body?

---

Yep, this whole thing could end very badly.......

Program has to forfeit 2-3 (or more) games due to this silliness
Program ends season at 3-9
Mack offers no refunds for games (product) not delivered to paying fans
Mack sticks to the company line "your money goes to the support of hundreds of student athlete"
Linda begs everyone to shine the light
Fans get pissed at program that had such a simple decision to make
Fans cancel donations and season tickets
Program spirals
Top coaching talent leaves
Mack reaches out to Coach Guy Morriss asking if he'd be interested in leading the Baylor football program again


Just require the vaccine to be on the team. Kids can still make their choice - team or self.

Does Baylor require vaccines for students for other communicable diseases like measles and such?

Your sarcasm meter's broken Pitchfork.

Gunny Hartman said:

---

Zerooreo said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

...and in the meantime forfeit games should this happen to a program that does not mandate the vaccine? There is alot more riding on this decision of a player on scholarship at a school and now perhaps even being paid in some way than just the players' choice. Does Aranda also tell them they do not need to participate in the nutrition and conditioning program and they can eat all their meals a Burger King now as well if that is what they choose to do with their body?

---

Yep, this whole thing could end very badly.......

Program has to forfeit 2-3 (or more) games due to this silliness
Program ends season at 3-9
Mack offers no refunds for games (product) not delivered to paying fans
Mack sticks to the company line "your money goes to the support of hundreds of student athlete"
Linda begs everyone to shine the light
Fans get pissed at program that had such a simple decision to make
Fans cancel donations and season tickets
Program spirals
Top coaching talent leaves
Mack reaches out to Coach Guy Morriss asking if he'd be interested in leading the Baylor football program again


Just require the vaccine to be on the team. Kids can still make their choice - team or self.

---

Which part of the factual concept that the vax won't prevent someone from testing positive in the future is the most difficult part for you to understand?

---

Scientifically supported and widely publicized by the media, 99% of the vaccinated do not test positive nor contract the virus or any of its known variants.

So I would bet on the 99% odds versus the 1%. Not too difficult IMO.

In pre-vaccine days, we had "tested positive and is held out in quarantine". That meant the PCR test (the swab up the nose - very accurate) detected the presence of COVID DNA (well, RNA) in your snot. When we found that, it was reasonable to assume you were either infected or were clearing a recent infection. Either way, the only thing we could do was isolate you until you either developed full-on COVID or had a clear test indicating you defeated the virus. You had a high risk of infecting those around you.

Nowadays, as we've discussed, a vaccinated person can encounter a living COVID virus, internalize it, kill it off, and have the COVID DNA still detectable in their mucous. It would be a relatively small window of time, and that person would be unlikely to pose a risk of infecting others, but it would be possible.

The question, then, is how do sports leagues handle that scenario? If vaccinating is desirable (and it really, really is), then a vaccinated person should more or less be exempted from quarantine or other suspension from activities - provided they're also still healthy and willing to do so as always.

Executive summary: We'll need to update the rules to allow for exemptions when a vaccinated person tests positive.

Norman Dale said:

---

Zerooreo said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

Zerooreo said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

...and in the meantime forfeit games should this happen to a program that does not mandate the vaccine? There is alot more riding on this decision of a player on scholarship at a school and now perhaps even being paid in some way than just the players' choice. Does Aranda also tell them they do not need to participate in the nutrition and conditioning program and they can eat all their meals a Burger King now as well if that is what they choose to do with their body?

---

Yep, this whole thing could end very badly.......

Program has to forfeit 2-3 (or more) games due to this silliness
Program ends season at 3-9
Mack offers no refunds for games (product) not delivered to paying fans
Mack sticks to the company line "your money goes to the support of hundreds of student athlete"
Linda begs everyone to shine the light
Fans get pissed at program that had such a simple decision to make
Fans cancel donations and season tickets
Program spirals
Top coaching talent leaves
Mack reaches out to Coach Guy Morriss asking if he'd be interested in leading the Baylor football program again


Just require the vaccine to be on the team. Kids can still make their choice - team or self.

---

Which part of the factual concept that the vax won't prevent someone from testing positive in the future is the most difficult part for you to understand?

---

Scientifically supported and widely publicized by the media, 99% of the vaccinated do not test positive nor contract the virus or any of its known variants.

So I would bet on the 99% odds versus the 1%. Not too difficult IMO.

---

that is not accurate at all

---

Then prove me wrong with scientific reports and/or national media reports.

We are being told nationally that 99% of new cases are in the unvaccinated, and 99.7% of deaths are in the unvaccinated. Widely reported on all major outlets.

When it impacts money and our record, it pretty much will

I thought that the vaccinated players would be exempt from testing and contact tracing. Is that not true?

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Mr Tulip said:

---

So are you attempting to make "emergency authorization" equal to "not proven safe"?

---

There is no long term data on the safety of these therapies. For you to claim they are safe, is to ignore the fact that there has not been enough time to evaluate the long-term effects of the therapies.

Frankly, I am disgusted that total strangers are advocating that medical decisions, the long-term effects of which are not known, be undertaken by 18-23 year-old men simply so they can be entertained.

---

Couldn't agree more. Not only are the long term effects of the vaccine not yet discernible, but the known risks of the vaccine for that age group appear to be greater than getting covid. These are unusual times, but it's crazy to put the success of a football program over the health decisions of our players. If we forfeit a game, then so be it.

It can't mutate if it is extinct.

PartyBear said:

---

It can't mutate if it is extinct.

---

It's never going to be extinct. Ever. The 1969 Hong Kong virus is still around and spreading every freaking year.

Zerooreo said:

---

Norman Dale said:

---

Zerooreo said:

---

Gunny Hartman said:

---

Zerooreo said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

...and in the meantime forfeit games should this happen to a program that does not mandate the vaccine? There is alot more riding on this decision of a player on scholarship at a school and now perhaps even being paid in some way than just the players' choice. Does Aranda also tell them they do not need to participate in the nutrition and conditioning program and they can eat all their meals a Burger King now as well if that is what they choose to do with their body?

---

Yep, this whole thing could end very badly.......

Program has to forfeit 2-3 (or more) games due to this silliness
Program ends season at 3-9
Mack offers no refunds for games (product) not delivered to paying fans
Mack sticks to the company line "your money goes to the support of hundreds of student athlete"
Linda begs everyone to shine the light
Fans get pissed at program that had such a simple decision to make
Fans cancel donations and season tickets
Program spirals
Top coaching talent leaves
Mack reaches out to Coach Guy Morriss asking if he'd be interested in leading the Baylor football program again


Just require the vaccine to be on the team. Kids can still make their choice - team or self.

---

Which part of the factual concept that the vax won't prevent someone from testing positive in the future is the most difficult part for you to understand?

---

Scientifically supported and widely publicized by the media, 99% of the vaccinated do not test positive nor contract the virus or any of its known variants.

So I would bet on the 99% odds versus the 1%. Not too difficult IMO.

---

that is not accurate at all

---

Then prove me wrong with scientific reports and/or national media reports.

We are being told nationally that 99% of new cases are in the unvaccinated, and 99.7% of deaths are in the unvaccinated. Widely reported on all major outlets.

---

I don't know where you're getting your information but you are so incredibly incorrect it's kind of hard to imagine someone could be so misinformed. Hilariously, as I noted previously, thus far 10% of the fully vaxxed Texas Democrats that recently left Texas because they like porous voting laws recently tested positive, and that's not even counting the fully vaxxed members of Dragon Lady Pelosi's office and the White House staff that they infected.

You need to find better information sources my friend, and that doesn't necessarily include official guvmint sources, because many of them are corrupt as hell.

Timbear said:

---

The vaccine does Not Guarantee someone will not get Covid. The American Academy of Pediatrics just said everyone over 2 yrs old should wear a mask, vaccinated or not. What the heck is that about? There will probably be more people die from the vaccine than there will be kids who die from Covid.

---

This is the problem. So many average people are now scientist. no vaccine is 100%. The vaccine is marketed against not having serious illness (ie not dying ) for a reason. Very few diseases have been completely eradicated by vaccines. Show me the states to support your claim that people have died from the vaccine. Tens of millions have been vaccinated now. Go look at the numbers of people that are actually dying from the delta variant, most are not vaccinated.

OsoVerde said:

---

Does Baylor require vaccines for students for other communicable diseases like measles and such?

---

Yeah it's called MCV4.

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.

muddybrazos said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.

---

No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.

---

Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.

Zerooreo said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.

---

No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.

---

Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.

---

I would think if she is really such a lib, there would actually be a policy for everyone to be vaccinated. It is t a political position at all to believe vaccinations are good for public health, but it seems more progressive types and their companies are the ones getting the vaccine and making sure everyone in the organization is vaccinated.

Zerooreo said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Aranda needs to make them get the vaccine. It is business. It is mismanagement not to. Now more than ever Baylor can't afford to fall off the board and drop from the radar.

---

No he should not. The age group of our players are at little to 0 risk. They're healthy and most of them have had covid so they should absolutely not be coerced to get the shot and it's not legal to demand that of them.

---

Schools can require students to be vaccinated in order to be on campus. It's happening all over the country. Also, employers can require employees to be vaccinated in order to be employed. You are wrong. Private businesses and institutions (universities) can do it if they want. However, I seriously doubt it will ever happen at Baylor with Lib Linda at the helm.

---

Libs are the ones who do not respect personal freedom and like govt control so it will more than likely happen under lib Linda. I don't think the legal cases are settled yet bc they will be appealed. I wouldn't come to BU as a football player if they made it a requirement that i had take this non FDA approved vax.

Labeling this vaccine "gene therapy" is misleading at best, and a deliberate attempt to scare up unfounded anger at worst.

Gene therapy is an attempt to alter the genetic information of a diseased cell in an attempt to make that cell healthy. The goal is to be able to treat cell-based diseases by permanently altering those cells.

The COVID vaccine does not do this at all. We all know our bodies use DNA to create new cells. That's true. The process of taking DNA (a double stranded coil of information) and creating RNA (a single stranded "line" that can be duplicated) is a precise chemical dance. The body can then take the information in each "line" of RNA and make stuff with it.

There are several type of RNA, but here we're concerned with "messenger RNA". Messenger RNA tells the body "hey, build this!". The body takes up that messenger RNA, gets it into a ribosome (a cell's "factory"), and begins to locate the proteins needed to link up what the messenger RNA asks for. It is important to note here that the messenger RNA never enters the cell nucleus where the DNA is stored. This is critically important to be understood. The DNA of the cell is never touched. It cannot be "gene therapy" because the cell will continue to fulfill its function unchanged once the vaccine process is completed.

Anyway, what the vaccine's messenger RNA is asking the ribosome to build is the spike protein from the virus. Not the entire, live, active, infectious virus - just the spike. Once the spike is produced and released into the body (which is how ribosomes, and therefore cells in general, create new stuff), the body's immune responses take over. They recognize the spike as foreign, and set about killing it. The next time they see the spike, like on a live, for real virus, they're already on the job. That doesn't mean you won't feel poorly, or that an infection isn't possible. It means your immune system already has a head start on winning the fight. It's the way to bet.

I hope this helps show the difference between "gene therapy" that attempts to permanently alter a diseased cell's instructions, and the mRNA vaccine that attempts to create a new immunity in the body. There is simply no pathway to "long term effects" from the vaccine that would not be otherwise present from daily living.

TXBEAR_bf said:

---

Tulip, appreciate the time you have taken to go into detail about the vaccine. The problem I have had with the CDC and government officials is the blanket statement that the vaccine is safe without any discussion of the possible side effects. I am not an anti vax individual; however, the continuous pushing of the vaccine without any side effects discussion makes me uncomfortable. I am not sure what to make of the VAERS data, but that shows over 4 thousand deaths as of last month. Additionally, I know several individuals, including my wife that have had very concerning SE. I understand statistically speaking they might be insignificant, but tell that to the people experiencing them. I would welcome you to go to this site; Medscape, and read what people are posting about their reactions. This is a site for medical professionals. https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events
Here is my stance; I have the ability to control my interactions to a certain degree, I work from home. I am healthy and highly likely to survive if I get Covid. If I get the jab, I am still a possible carrier, and my symptoms will be mildervery similar to a flu shottheoretically. I am not going to feel unpatriotic for not getting the shot, period. I am not suggesting that I will not get it, but the idea that is so black and white is over simplifying it. The long term implications are not known and there are many in the medical a community that are still fighting to not receive them.

---

Currently it shows just under 13,000, and increase of 6,000 since last week.

One thing to remember about VAERS data, especially raw and new data, is that it's the first step in science. Good science means reporting everything, regardless of whether or not you believe it's significant or related or causative in any way.

As a thought experiment, consider people buying Ford F150s. How many people were diagnosed with heart disease within a year after buying one? How many people suffered a decrease in appetite or felt tired? How many people died outright? How many were involved in an automobile accident? Injured in one? Had a fatality?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, dismissive, or reduce an argument to absurdism. Someone honestly studying the Ford F150's effect on health would report all of those things (and a lot more) in VAERS data. It would be their job to report all findings. A lot are obviously opinion (I feel tired a lot). Most will be coincidental (they just happen). As the data builds, correlations (NOT causation at this point) will indicate trends. Those correlations can then be investigated for causative (would a particular feature of the Ford F150 lead to preventable injury?) mechanisms.

I've attempted over a few really wordy, nerdy posts to give guidance as to how the vaccine works. It should be obvious, then, that some of the things being attributed to it are simply outright impossible. Likewise, it should be obvious that there can be individuals with known medical conditions for whom the vaccine would be inadvisable. Those individuals, however, are certain to suffer even worse effects if they contract COVID itself - their only defense is outright avoidance - thus putting greater humanitarian onus on those of us without those drawbacks to get vaccinated.

The facts are that the more people in our society that are vaccinated against Covid, the quicker the spread of it dies out, that's the entire purpose of vaccines. Unfortunately, as with most things, our country has politicized the issue when it should be a decision solely based on evidence.

What we know is that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines protect the vaccinated individuals with 94-95% efficacy. It doesn't take a genius to see how valuable that is in stopping the spread of Covid. The most reasonable position against the vaccine is that there is no long-term data on it. If you take time to truly understand how it works, however, I think it's clear that you aren't going to contract some lung disease or have five tumors randomly spring up in your body. Think of it as introducing a protein sequence into your body (i.e. instructions) to prevent the covid spike protein from binding to your cells and making you sick.

All that being said, I have never seen anyone care about any other vaccine (hep B, flu, MMR, etc.) or a medication's side effects with any modicum of seriousness, but now they think "emergency phase" means the vaccine is a massive gamble on safety. I am confident Pfizer wouldn't bank their entire reputation as a company on a vaccine that isn't safe. Additionally, if you are familiar with FDA approval, it is ridiculously slow, and to wait for full approval for the vaccine in order to offer it would cost many more lives and keep this pandemic in effect for far longer than we can tolerate as a country and world.

Darth Melon said:

---

The facts are that the more people in our society that are vaccinated against Covid, the quicker the spread of it dies out, that's the entire purpose of vaccines. Unfortunately, as with most things, our country has politicized the issue when it should be a decision solely based on evidence.

What we know is that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines protect the vaccinated individuals with 94-95% efficacy. It doesn't take a genius to see how valuable that is in stopping the spread of Covid. The most reasonable position against the vaccine is that there is no long-term data on it. If you take time to truly understand how it works, however, I think it's clear that you aren't going to contract some lung disease or have five tumors randomly spring up in your body. Think of it as introducing a protein sequence into your body (i.e. instructions) to prevent the covid spike protein from binding to your cells and making you sick.

All that being said, I have never seen anyone care about any other vaccine (hep B, flu, MMR, etc.) or a medication's side effects with any modicum of seriousness, but now they think "emergency phase" means the vaccine is a massive gamble on safety. I am confident Pfizer wouldn't bank their entire reputation as a company on a vaccine that isn't safe. Additionally, if you are familiar with FDA approval, it is ridiculously slow, and to wait for full approval for the vaccine in order to offer it would cost many more lives and keep this pandemic in effect for far longer than we can tolerate as a country and world.

---

Pfizer just pulled the plug on it antismoking drug that has been on the market for years because it has been found to have cancer causing qualities. Could it be possible the same type of thing could be found with this vaccine after years of use? Just asking.

BUBBFAN said:

---

Darth Melon said:

---

The facts are that the more people in our society that are vaccinated against Covid, the quicker the spread of it dies out, that's the entire purpose of vaccines. Unfortunately, as with most things, our country has politicized the issue when it should be a decision solely based on evidence.

What we know is that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines protect the vaccinated individuals with 94-95% efficacy. It doesn't take a genius to see how valuable that is in stopping the spread of Covid. The most reasonable position against the vaccine is that there is no long-term data on it. If you take time to truly understand how it works, however, I think it's clear that you aren't going to contract some lung disease or have five tumors randomly spring up in your body. Think of it as introducing a protein sequence into your body (i.e. instructions) to prevent the covid spike protein from binding to your cells and making you sick.

All that being said, I have never seen anyone care about any other vaccine (hep B, flu, MMR, etc.) or a medication's side effects with any modicum of seriousness, but now they think "emergency phase" means the vaccine is a massive gamble on safety. I am confident Pfizer wouldn't bank their entire reputation as a company on a vaccine that isn't safe. Additionally, if you are familiar with FDA approval, it is ridiculously slow, and to wait for full approval for the vaccine in order to offer it would cost many more lives and keep this pandemic in effect for far longer than we can tolerate as a country and world.

---

Pfizer just pulled the plug on it antismoking drug that has been on the market for years because it has been found to have cancer causing qualities. Could it be possible the same type of thing could be found with this vaccine after years of use? Just asking.

---

That's one place where the concept of this mRNA based vaccine makes quick approval and emergency use authorization much safer. Again, please don't think that "emergency use" means "what have we got to lose? Just try anything!". This is a well researched, well vetted, and rigorously tested vaccine.

To be cancer causing, that is, carcinogenic, you basically have to be capable of interfering with the DNA replication process. That is NOT done on a "genetic" level inside the cell. When a cell decides to replicate, it "unzips" the DNA helix, copies both sides independently, and those copies re-fuse in the only way they can - exactly as before. That's how it's supposed to work.

When the DNA is unzipped (into RNA), the base pairs (those are the "stair steps" you see in DNA) can react. Normally, it'd be almost impossible to get them to do anything but wait around for their matching partner. However, some chemicals can glue them together in unexpected ways. One example is the UV radiation from the sun can weld together two "thymine" base pairs together to create a "thymine dimer". These are likely the basis of skin cancer. They're a mistake in the DNA that the body can't detect. If enough of these are present, they can begin their own replication. A tumor results.

Other chemicals have the potential to varying degrees to interfere with an otherwise reliable process. They cause mutations and are called "mutagens". The ones that specifically create cancerous mutations are "carcinogenic". If Pfizer is recalling a drug, it's likely they're concerned that, in certain conditions, a chemical component in that drug can be unexpectedly converted by the body into a possible carcinogen. Their drug is made of chemical substances that have to be metabolized by the body.

The beauty of the COVID vaccine is that it can't do any of these things. It consists of a fatty solution (like every hospital patient receives since most vitamins can only move around the body when dissolved in fats) as a carrier, and the exact genetic code of the COVID spike. The only thing it can do is interact with a ribosome and build that spike. If it doesn't do that, it just degrades into amino acids.

You assume the lab created spike protein can do no harm in and of itself.