73s de N4WJP said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BUAL said:

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Just drove from Austin to spend a chunk of August up in a little Lake Michigan beach town to dodge the heat. Stopped, as we do frequently, and ate at the Union Food Hall downtown. My wife and I keep commenting that Waco is becoming like Austin 15 years ago, downtown. That may be a sretch but I have hardly witnessed a place change faster from nearly abandoned to pretty darn busy.

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Used to hear non-Baylor friends talk smack about Waco. Now you never hear that kind of talk.

It's always "had a nice weekend there" or "nice place"

And at least two friends boomer parents sold their houses and moved to Waco. Cashed out in DFW and moved because they like the town and it was close to both Austin and the metroplex.

They had no Baylor affiliation.

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I've always thought a lot of the Waco hate was due to:

1.Only passing through on I-35 and thinking that's what the whole city must be like.

2. Never been here at all and just regurgitating a common trope.

3. I've spoken to several acquaintances that grew up in Waco during 1960-2000 when the place did have more than its share of issues. I'll occasionally try to explain how it has changed in the last 10 years, but their eyes just glaze over in disbelief. That's fine with me. I've lived in Washington DC and Austin, and my ability to deal with ruthless traffic (which will never change imo) has long since passed.

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I was one of those 70's and 80''s types. Pretty much all of the criticism was justified. Check out the old documentary Letter from Waco to get an idea. It was BLEAK! The change is just staggering.

With all due respect, there were some cool things about Waco back in the day, also, especially when it came to mom and pop restaurant establishments. Today, Waco is still mostly turning into a homogeneous city of national chains, like many cities its size.

Waco needs to remain accessible by transportation in order to be vital. I feel like rising transportation costs in the future combined with a switch to modal mass transportation for environmental purposes will result in a "realignment" of Texas and some towns will be left out to die, much like what happened with the railroads in the 1800's.

Interstate road work is done, and it's great!

The cost of living has gone up, but it's not because of The Gaines! California figured out how cheap Texas was. The growth from large companies and the population has forced living expenses to go to a higher and equal level to a large portion of the country. The population that grew up here and state it's the "Gaines," have not traveled the country much. Texas was CHEAP in comparison. The rest of the world finally heard about it.

I moved to Waco 14 yrs ago, when things were on the quiet side. Honestly, the growth is exciting, however, the roadways are not liking it. People here complain about crime, but they don't understand the comparison to the rest of the country. Crime has gone up in the whole state and country - not just Waco. If anything, the high crime in major cities are pushing people to the suburbs or areas like Waco.

Big12Bear said:

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TonitrumOso said:

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Haven't been back in 20 years (except a couple of stops at George's on various I-35 trips). Will be back this fall to visit my kids starting Baylor this year. Selfishly, I need to know the status of the following institutions:

Two Minnie's
Showtime Club
Kitok
Chapter 11
Crying Shame
Oso Burrito
Papa Joe's (where Billy Joe Shaver shot a guy)
Scruffy Murphy's

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You better believe that Crying Shame, Chapter 11, Scruff's and Kitok are still there. Pony upto the bar and pay your respects (or order a liplocker w/cheese in Kitok's case).

Never been to Papa Joe's but know all about the Billy Joe story. Dale Watson made a song about it called "Where Do You Want It"

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The man that was shot in the face was my Roommate's dad.

Waco is Waco.

I would have told you the same thing if you arrived from 1985 in a DeLorean...

Except Pekican's burned, and that stinks.

Eleven-League Grant said:

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From the Waco Trib, back in February [2022]:

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The Salvation Army's Waco chapter plans to buy a 9.9 acre lot at 1324 La Salle Ave. from the city of Waco and build a new headquarters to house its Community Kitchen, shelters, church and other services now located downtown.

The Waco Plan Commission voted unanimously to recommend granting the organization a special-use permit for the new shelter space during a meeting Tuesday. The Waco City Council is scheduled to vote next month on whether to grant the permit.

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Monday's Trib (September 19, 2022) reported that in fact on Tuesday the Waco city council would approve the sale of that 9.9 acre lot at 1324 La Salle Avenue to The Salvation Army for $2 million.

This will allow The Salvation Army to move their operations out of the downtown area and 'free up' space for other uses, which I suppose means high dollar commercial developments on which property taxes can be collected.

The Salvation Army plans to use the proceeds from the sale of its existing properties to fund (or pay off the loans on) construction of the new facilities, and I would imagine that some of those are quite valuable, including their church which fronts I-35.

As the Trib reported back in February, adjacent business owners on La Salle aren't thrilled about this, but at least, according to the Trib, part of the deal involves an expanded police presence in the area:

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Onsite security is another condition listed in the special permit, calling for the construction of a police substation or reporting station at the new facility. Taylor said not only is 24-hour security important for The Salvation Army's safety, but it can also bring comfort to the surrounding neighborhood.

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Eleven-League Grant said:

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As the Trib reported back in February, adjacent business owners on La Salle aren't thrilled about this, but at least, according to the Trib, part of the deal involves an expanded police presence in the area:

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Onsite security is another condition listed in the special permit, calling for the construction of a police substation or reporting station at the new facility. Taylor said not only is 24-hour security important for The Salvation Army's safety, but it can also bring comfort to the surrounding neighborhood.

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Yeah, but Chip and JoJo get rid of the undesirable homeless in their Silo District.

interesting choice, certainly not convenient. Hard for me to offer any alternative solutions though.

Coke Bear said:

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Eleven-League Grant said:

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As the Trib reported back in February, adjacent business owners on La Salle aren't thrilled about this, but at least, according to the Trib, part of the deal involves an expanded police presence in the area:

Quote:

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Onsite security is another condition listed in the special permit, calling for the construction of a police substation or reporting station at the new facility. Taylor said not only is 24-hour security important for The Salvation Army's safety, but it can also bring comfort to the surrounding neighborhood.

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Yeah, but Chip and JoJo get rid of the undesirable homeless in their Silo District.

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....only to relocate them next to their restaurant.

FrankFallonCalling said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Eleven-League Grant said:

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As the Trib reported back in February, adjacent business owners on La Salle aren't thrilled about this, but at least, according to the Trib, part of the deal involves an expanded police presence in the area:

Quote:

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Onsite security is another condition listed in the special permit, calling for the construction of a police substation or reporting station at the new facility. Taylor said not only is 24-hour security important for The Salvation Army's safety, but it can also bring comfort to the surrounding neighborhood.

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Yeah, but Chip and JoJo get rid of the undesirable homeless in their Silo District.

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....only to relocate them next to their restaurant.

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The Salvation Army property in question is a vacant lot on the S side of LaSalle between the old abandoned Martin Linen Supply building and the El Palenque food truck, just past 12th street. Directly across LaSalle is another large vacant tract, usually with semi trucks and trailers (and the occasional school bus) parked on it. Nearby landmarks across LaSalle would be StarTex Propane (at 12th) and the Route 77 Food Truck Park (at 15th). Not much else in the immediate vicinity. At least 1-1.5 miles from the Circle.

whitetrash said:

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FrankFallonCalling said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Eleven-League Grant said:

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As the Trib reported back in February, adjacent business owners on La Salle aren't thrilled about this, but at least, according to the Trib, part of the deal involves an expanded police presence in the area:

Quote:

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Onsite security is another condition listed in the special permit, calling for the construction of a police substation or reporting station at the new facility. Taylor said not only is 24-hour security important for The Salvation Army's safety, but it can also bring comfort to the surrounding neighborhood.

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Yeah, but Chip and JoJo get rid of the undesirable homeless in their Silo District.

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....only to relocate them next to their restaurant.

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The Salvation Army property in question is a vacant lot on the S side of LaSalle between the old abandoned Martin Linen Supply building and the El Palenque food truck, just past 12th street. Directly across LaSalle is another large vacant tract, usually with semi trucks and trailers (and the occasional school bus) parked on it. Nearby landmarks across LaSalle would be StarTex Propane (at 12th) and the Route 77 Food Truck Park (at 15th). Not much else in the immediate vicinity. At least 1-1.5 miles from the Circle.

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there is a low income house complex near there down 12th going towards Rosemound Cemetary

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The Salvation Army property in question is a vacant lot on the S side of LaSalle between the old abandoned Martin Linen Supply building and the El Palenque food truck, just past 12th street. Directly across LaSalle is another large vacant tract, usually with semi trucks and trailers (and the occasional school bus) parked on it. Nearby landmarks across LaSalle would be StarTex Propane (at 12th) and the Route 77 Food Truck Park (at 15th). Not much else in the immediate vicinity. At least 1-1.5 miles from the Circle.

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Without a doubt all that is true. This area is certainly not Park Avenue in Manhattan, I'll grant you.

But if we accept all that, isn't it odd that the particular 10-acre lot in question was not only valued at $4.50/sqft ($200,000/acre) but that also the City of Waco paid that amount for it and in turn The Salvation Army will pay that for it?

Yes, those are not I-35 frontage prices for commercial property, but that's not exactly cheap real estate, particularly if the argument is that the area is blighted.

So I might suggest that the land either (i) has that type of commercial value because it's in a potentially up-an-coming viable area, or (ii) the City of Waco vastly overpaid.

Of course, I have no inside information on this particularly series of negotiations so my opinion is just speculation, and I would love to hear some other opinions, or some inside info.

Regardless, I think the men and women of The Salvation Army do wonderful work and have for years. In fact, the ones I have dealt with are some of the biggest hearted people you could ever hope to meet.

Eleven-League Grant said:

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Quote:

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The Salvation Army property in question is a vacant lot on the S side of LaSalle between the old abandoned Martin Linen Supply building and the El Palenque food truck, just past 12th street. Directly across LaSalle is another large vacant tract, usually with semi trucks and trailers (and the occasional school bus) parked on it. Nearby landmarks across LaSalle would be StarTex Propane (at 12th) and the Route 77 Food Truck Park (at 15th). Not much else in the immediate vicinity. At least 1-1.5 miles from the Circle.

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Without a doubt all that is true. This area is certainly not Park Avenue in Manhattan, I'll grant you.

But if we accept all that, isn't it odd that the particular 10-acre lot in question was not only valued at $4.50/sqft ($200,000/acre) but that also the City of Waco paid that amount for it and in turn The Salvation Army will pay that for it?

Yes, those are not I-35 frontage prices for commercial property, but that's not exactly cheap real estate, particularly if the argument is that the area is blighted.

So I might suggest that the land either (i) has that type of commercial value because it's in a potentially up-an-coming viable area, or (ii) the City of Waco vastly overpaid.

Of course, I have no inside information on this particularly series of negotiations so my opinion is just speculation, and I would love to hear some other opinions, or some inside info.

Regardless, I think the men and women of The Salvation Army do wonderful work and have for years. In fact, the ones I have dealt with are some of the biggest hearted people you could ever hope to meet.

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I'm sure there is a little bit of everything as well as city simply knowing the real value is moving them out of the downtown area and away from all the current economic development.