https://www.kwtx.com/2023/02/14/china-spring-isd-school-board-approves-4-day-school-week/

I don't live in China Spring but I am curious what people who do think about this change. Or it would be interesting to hear feedback from anyone who has knowledge on how this has worked in other districts.

On the surface this feels like a tough situation for homes that have two working parents. However, you can tell the overall trend in the workplace in general is moving closer to the 4 day week.

baylrballa said:

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wonder if taxes decrease 20%

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Probably not since I think they want to build a nice new sports complex.

BaylorGuy314 said:

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As a dual income household where we both work a lot of hours M-F in an office setting, this trend sucks. Truly, I have no idea how we'd do it (closest family is 4 hours away). Undoubtedly if this becomes normal, there will be a lot of childcare facilities that will take advantage and have good Friday options but they will likely be expensive. I'm fortunate enough that I could afford something like that, if needed. Many dual income households don't have that luxury.

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Yup, and I think this is why you won't see someone like Waco ISD do something like that.

How will they handle Friday Night Lights….

No pep rally…. And just tell the players and band to just show up at such and such a time. Currently, I don't think most varsity athletes leave the campus after school on game day.

And I understood thst the school day would not be lengthened … so must be going to lengthen the school day.

I don't those that spoke against the proposal were even considered … methjnkfs the decision was made (informally) before the first public hearing.

And any advantage gained in retaining teachers will be lost when other area districts do the same.

Lastly, it seems like with current system (five days week) when there is a four day week, the students are giddy the day before and sometimes hard to get refocused following a long weekend.

In my opinion, this isn't about the kids!

cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

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Yeah I believe both of our wives are elementary school teachers. My wife loves her kids but by this point in the year she would kill each and every one of them for a chance at a three day weekend.

BaylorHistory said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

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Yeah I believe both of our wives are elementary school teachers. My wife loves her kids but by this point in the year she would kill each and every one of them for a chance at a three day weekend.

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100%

trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

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I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

BaylorHistory said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

---

I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

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Yeah I believe both of our wives are elementary school teachers. My wife loves her kids but by this point in the year she would kill each and every one of them for a chance at a three day weekend.

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Which she would get longer than a 3 day weekend with year round school. Depending on how it is implemented it has a week long break every six or nine weeks.

cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

---

I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

---

I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

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I'm not dismissing it outright without facts. I'm married to a teacher. Her mom was a teacher. Her friends are mostly teachers. From February on during the school year, they are counting down the days until it is over.

trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

---

I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

---

I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

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I'm not dismissing it outright without facts. I'm married to a teacher. Her mom was a teacher. Her friends are mostly teachers. From February on during the school year, they are counting down the days until it is over.

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I get that. But why do you think more time off during the year would not help?

cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

---

I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

---

I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

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I'm not dismissing it outright without facts. I'm married to a teacher. Her mom was a teacher. Her friends are mostly teachers. From February on during the school year, they are counting down the days until it is over.

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I get that. But why do you think more time off during the year would not help?

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It probably would in some ways, but it will be fought viciously because the thought of having to drag it out over time will be a non-starter for many of them. Then you also get into daycare costs (many don't charge you for summer time if you're not signed up for the summer program) going up, since they're not going to give you a price break during times when you have a week off.

trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

---

I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

---

I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

---

I'm not dismissing it outright without facts. I'm married to a teacher. Her mom was a teacher. Her friends are mostly teachers. From February on during the school year, they are counting down the days until it is over.

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I get that. But why do you think more time off during the year would not help?

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It probably would in some ways, but it will be fought viciously because the thought of having to drag it out over time will be a non-starter for many of them. Then you also get into daycare costs (many don't charge you for summer time if you're not signed up for the summer program) going up, since they're not going to give you a price break during times when you have a week off.

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True that would be the fight at first. But when you start looking at the data versus the feeling of "dragging it out" the data should win.

Year round school is still the same number of days of school as current school years... it is just spread out more. Almost every model I have seen still has almost the whole month of July off and most of June is off (except for summer school). So I guess I am missing something as to why the cost would go up? Can you explain why you think they would go up?

Showtime said:

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baylrballa said:

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wonder if taxes decrease 20%

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Probably not since I think they want to build a nice new sports complex.

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Where are you hearing this?

Taxes won't decrease based on the same educational time.

CS is moving this direction to hopefully solve a teacher retention issue, attract new teachers and help with both student and teacher attendance.

An employee of mine who went to the meeting said that was part of the agenda, as well. He had gone to the meeting to speak against it. I don't live over there so it wasn't first hand.

I was asking about the sports complex info. A new competition gym is about 75% complete that will have additional CTE classes, but no other venues are in the works.

There is a significant problem with hiring and retaining teachers. To a great extent, this is driving the decision the move to a 4 day schedule.

Additionally, for many of the districts considering the revised schedule, the 4-day week applies only to students. Teachers will continue to work a 5-day week with Fridays being used as in-service and training days. In other cases the teachers will have an in-service Friday every other week. This day without students would allow teachers an opportunity to lesson plan, grade, and etc.... without taking work home every evening.

I've even seen plans where students continue to go to school 5 days each week but teachers work on a 4 day plan with some teachers working Mon-Thurs and others Tues-Friday.

Bottom line is we've got to solve the teacher shortage problem.

Not only the teacher shortage, but the public school funding from the state.

Compression of tax rates is real and hurting districts with no industry to help support. Rooftop districts are struggling.

baylrballa said:

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wonder if taxes decrease 20%

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Teachers still at school all five days as I understand

I can understand lightening the load on teachers by giving them the 5th day to get stuff done during normal hours instead of after hours. Most of the studies that I've seen re: teacher retention and 4-day weeks tends to be on a micro level (aka, SicEm High saw less turnover when they switched to a 4 day week), but I do question whether that would occur if everyone did it. Still, if we are going to insist of paying teachers poorly (my opinion) then I'm for helping them out with schedule.

My big con is already stated - what are parents supposed to do? I know school isn't' a daycare (a very fair point) but if you have two working parents (especially those that have to both work in order to pay bills) scheduling around school is already very difficult. I would imagine if larger districts went to this, they'd end up having to provide school on Friday in some other capacity, at least for those less of fortunate.

cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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Is this opinion based on any facts? You sound like you know it here but later say you would like to see data.

The traditional calendar for most schools in America dates back to most kids being needed to work the family farm during summer. Of course thats out dated now.

Breaking the school year into more frequent but smaller breaks may help in minimizing the flatline learnimg curve during three month of summer. Teachers spend a month reteahing skills learned the previous year. It would probably be best for the kids in that way.

However it might hurt teacher retention. As long as the teacher schedule matches the student schedule i think it wouldnt be thst negative. It is something to think about. Many schools are desperate for teachers and wind up hiring freaks out of desperation to fill the schedule.

BaylorGuy314 said:

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I can understand lightening the load on teachers by giving them the 5th day to get stuff done during normal hours instead of after hours. Most of the studies that I've seen re: teacher retention and 4-day weeks tends to be on a micro level (aka, SicEm High saw less turnover when they switched to a 4 day week), but I do question whether that would occur if everyone did it. Still, if we are going to insist of paying teachers poorly (my opinion) then I'm for helping them out with schedule.

My big con is already stated - what are parents supposed to do? I know school isn't' a daycare (a very fair point) but if you have two working parents (especially those that have to both work in order to pay bills) scheduling around school is already very difficult. I would imagine if larger districts went to this, they'd end up having to provide school on Friday in some other capacity, at least for those less of fortunate.

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Spoke to a friend who is on a school board that considered going to a 4-day week and ultimately decided against it.

He said that they looked at multiple districts' solutions to the "what will we do with kids on the off-day" problem. He said that several districts who provided all-day childcare were shocked to find those programs empty. He said that they found that if school wasn't mandatory, kids of just about any age didn't show up. Where they were is another question.

FrankFallonCalling said:

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BaylorGuy314 said:

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I can understand lightening the load on teachers by giving them the 5th day to get stuff done during normal hours instead of after hours. Most of the studies that I've seen re: teacher retention and 4-day weeks tends to be on a micro level (aka, SicEm High saw less turnover when they switched to a 4 day week), but I do question whether that would occur if everyone did it. Still, if we are going to insist of paying teachers poorly (my opinion) then I'm for helping them out with schedule.

My big con is already stated - what are parents supposed to do? I know school isn't' a daycare (a very fair point) but if you have two working parents (especially those that have to both work in order to pay bills) scheduling around school is already very difficult. I would imagine if larger districts went to this, they'd end up having to provide school on Friday in some other capacity, at least for those less of fortunate.

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Spoke to a friend who is on a school board that considered going to a 4-day week and ultimately decided against it.

He said that they looked at multiple districts' solutions to the "what will we do with kids on the off-day" problem. He said that several districts who provided all-day childcare were shocked to find those programs empty. He said that they found that if school wasn't mandatory, kids of just about any age didn't show up. Where they were is another question.

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If I've interpreted the data correctly, the Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates that about 56% of households with children are full time dual income. It's honestly less than I thought. I would also guess that a noteworthy chunk of those 56% also have family or close friends nearby that could watch kids. I'd also guess a chunk of those 56%- even if dual income - may choose to take off on a Friday and then work Saturday (if their scheduling allows), etc.

Last thing American students need is less time in school. Even with a five day school week, by the time a US student graduates HS they've attended a full year less than peers in Europe and Asia.

Europe and Asia also don't have entitled kids that don't respect their teachers. Entitled parents create entitled kids.

sipembeers said:

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Europe and Asia also don't have entitled kids that don't respect their teachers. Entitled parents create entitled kids.

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There are a lot of things that we could learn from the public education systems in some of the higher-flying European and Asian countries, but a reverence for classroom teachers (and an associated pay bump) would be a good place to start.

Hopefully the state helps with the pay bump this year.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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Is this opinion based on any facts? You sound like you know it here but later say you would like to see data.

The traditional calendar for most schools in America dates back to most kids being needed to work the family farm during summer. Of course thats out dated now.

Breaking the school year into more frequent but smaller breaks may help in minimizing the flatline learnimg curve during three month of summer. Teachers spend a month reteahing skills learned the previous year. It would probably be best for the kids in that way.

However it might hurt teacher retention. As long as the teacher schedule matches the student schedule i think it wouldnt be thst negative. It is something to think about. Many schools are desperate for teachers and wind up hiring freaks out of desperation to fill the schedule.

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The arguments I have seen for year round school appear to be based in facts. They often link to studies done on it.

Since I am not in any sort of position to push for year round school anywhere I have not spent much time looking deep into it to see if 4 day week is better or if year round is better. That was what I said about wanting to see the data. Which is better.

Many countries that are consistently ranked ahead of us use a year round model. Many districts in TX and other states that have shown improvement have used year round calendars. But now recently (last 5-10 years) it seems this 4 day model has become more popular. I am sure there are studies that compare both and what is better but I have not spent the time to look it up.

trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

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I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

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I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

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I'm not dismissing it outright without facts. I'm married to a teacher. Her mom was a teacher. Her friends are mostly teachers. From February on during the school year, they are counting down the days until it is over.

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reason number 472983 to home school your kids

trey3216 said:

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JL said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Instead of 4 day school weeks I wish more districts would go to year round school with the breaks spread out more. It can be done where you still get a long break in summer, maybe the whole month of July, and it doesn't impact sports, college entrance, etc. and improves all aspects of school from discipline, attendance, grades, graduation rates, test scores, teacher burnout, etc.

---

I doubt year round school will prevent teacher burnout. Like I'd be willing to bet The King Ranch that year round school will not help with teacher burnout in any form or fashion.

---

I think it is something that would help and something that some studies should be done on, if not already done, to see if it helps.

I haven't looked at it a lot but teacher burnout reduction is always one of the pros I have seen for year round school so I would think there is something behind that claim (data, retention, teachers reporting less stress, etc.) for it to be used but it could just be a talking point.

I'd rather look into it to see if it is a solution for many areas posted above then just dismiss it without facts.

---

I'm not dismissing it outright without facts. I'm married to a teacher. Her mom was a teacher. Her friends are mostly teachers. From February on during the school year, they are counting down the days until it is over.

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reason number 472983 to home school your kids

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It's not the teachers' fault. You should come sit at the dinner table and listen to the crap I have to hear about her work....every damn day. It's a nightmare what our public school teachers have to put up with these days.

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It's amazing how infallible and omniscient Junior really is as he punches other kids on a daily basis and school district just shrugs and moves on.