Scott Drew-era transfer discussion

1,527 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by jdrs
bear2be2
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I had a post here not long ago about how few impact players we've had transfer out, and it spurred a fun discussion on the Baylor athletics text chain I'm on about what all-outgoing and all-incoming transfer teams would look like during the Scott Drew era. I figured I'd share that here because the discrepancy between the strength of the two is pretty remarkable.

We'll start with the all-outgoing transfer team. After putting the roster together, I asked my buddies how many of Scott Drew's Baylor teams we thought it could beat. We couldn't agree on an answer, but the consensus was not many.

Let me know if I forgot anyone. For reference, all stats are composite averages from the post-transfer school they experienced the most success at.

ALL-OUTGOING TRANSFER TEAM
STARTING LINEUP
PG -- LJ Rose (9.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 2.5 rpg, 0.7 spg in 30.2 mpg; .386/.349/.709 at Houston)
SG -- Wendell 'Chuck' Mitchell (11.6 ppg, 2.1 apg, 3.1 rpg, 1.6 spg in 29.1 mpg; .365/.316/.802 at Texas A&M)
SG -- Al Freeman (16.1 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.2 rpg, 1.2 spg in 34.4 mpg; .386/.385/.776 at NC State)
SF/PF -- Matthew Mayer (11.9 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 1.2 apg, 0.8 spg in 24.0 mpg; .436/.381/.792 at Illinois)
C -- Dain Dainja (10.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.4 bpg, 0.5 apg, 0.8 spg in 20.8 mpg; .683/.000/.507 at Illinois)

BENCH
PG -- Stargell Love (9.9 ppg, 4.3 apg, 4.0 rpg, 1.3 spg in 24.8 mpg; .475/.380/.649 at DII N.M. Highlands)
SG -- Tyson Jolly (13.4 ppg, 2.0 apg, 5.9 rpg, 0.6 spg in 32.7 mpg; .454/.384/.748 at SMU)
SG -- Deuce Bello (9.2 ppg, 1.0 apg, 3.4 rpg; 1.1 spg in 21.9 mpg; .458/.319/.656 at East Tennessee State)
SF/PF -- Djibril 'Penny' Thiam (8.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.7 apg, 0.8 spg in 25.7 mpg; .526/.222/.601 at Wyoming)
PF -- Tristan Clark (4.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.8 bpg, 0.6 apg, 0.2 spg in 14.1 mpg; .694/.000/.719 at SMU
C -- Dragan Sekulja (4.0 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.5 bpg, 1.3 apg, 0.3 spg in 16.7 mpg; .444/.000/.625 at Florida Atlantic)
C -- Chad Rykhoek (4.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.5 bpg, 0.7 apg, 0.3 spg in 14.1 mpg; .544/.000/.353 at Memphis)

Others left off: Cory Herring (solid career at Canisius); Givon Crump (productive but inefficient career at DII Cal State-Dominguez)

Now, with that out of the way, let's look at the incoming transfers. We have enough to make two teams -- one legendary and one decent but deeply flawed -- so I'll go ahead and do that. It would probably make more sense to divide the players onto two more even teams, but for the sake of this exercise, I didn't. I think the first team would waltz to a national title and the second would be a competitive but low-ceiling team because of its obvious weakness in the frontcourt.

ALL-INCOMING TRANSFER TEAM -- First team
STARTING LINEUP
PG -- Pierre Jackson (16.7 ppg, 6.5 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.6 spg in 32.8 mpg; .441/.379/.808 at Baylor)
PG/SG -- Davion Mitchell (12.0 ppg, 4.7 apg, 2.7 rpg, 1.7 spg in 32.7 mpg; .465/.394/.653 at Baylor)
SG -- MaCio Teague (14.9 ppg, 1.8 apg, 4.3 rpg, 0.9 spg in 32.1 mpg; .443/.374/.841 at Baylor)
PF -- Ekpe Udoh (13.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.7 bpg, 2.7 apg, 0.8 spg in 35.1 mpg; .490/.269/.685 at Baylor)
C -- Jo Acuil (11.5 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 2.2 bpg, 0.6 apg, 0.4 spg in 28.5 mpg; .527/.311/.612 at Baylor)

BENCH
PG -- Makai Mason (14.9 ppg, 3.4 apg, 2.1 rpg, 0.5 spg in 32.1 mpg; .398/.364/.787 at Baylor)
PG/SG -- Adam Flagler (12.5 ppg, 3.0 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg in 28.5 mpg; .435/.421/.809 at Baylor)
SG -- Brady Heslip (10.2 ppg, 0.9 apg, 1.3 rpg, 0.6 spg in 26.9 mpg; .433/.437/.823 at Baylor)
SF -- Royce O'Neale (8.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.0 spg in 29.5 mpg; .483/.448/.683 at Baylor)
SF/PF -- Harvey Thomas (15.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.4 bpg, 1.2 apg, 1.5 spg in 32.2 mpg; .431/.263/.695 at Baylor)
PF -- Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua (7.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.5 bpg, 0.5 apg, 0.6 spg in 19.9 mpg; .628/.533/.772 at Baylor)
C -- Freddie Gillespie (7.6 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.7 bpg, 0.4 apg, 0.9 spg in 23.7 mpg; .582/.000/.646 at Baylor)

ALL-INCOMING TRANSFER TEAM -- Second team
STARTING LINEUP
PG -- Kenny Chery (11.4 ppg, 4.4 apg, 2.8 rpg, 1.1 spg in 30.4 mpg; .404/.353/.858 at Baylor)
PG/SG -- Manu Lecomte (14.2 ppg, 3.8 apg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 spg in 32.1 mpg; .412/.392/.866 at Baylor)
SF -- Mario Kegler (10.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.6 bpg,1.3 apg, 0.4 spg in 28.3 mpg; .430/.303/.651 at Baylor)
SF/PF -- Jalen Bridges (9.8 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.0 bpg, 1.0 apg, 0.8 spg in 25.6 mpg; .512/.280/.759 at Baylor)
C -- J'Mison Morgan (3.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 0.5 spg in 12.4 mpg; .549/.000/.383 at Baylor)

BENCH
PG -- James Akinjo (13.5 ppg, 5.8 apg, 2.8 rpg, 2.0 spg in 33.1 mpg; .383/.295/.835 at Baylor)
PG -- Lester Medford (8.3 ppg, 4.8 apg, 1.8 rpg, 1.5 spg in 31.0 mpg; .393/.376/.701 at Baylor)
SG -- Devonte Bandoo (8.0 ppg, 1.4 apg, 2.8 rpg, 0.6 spg in 23.3 mpg; .418/.391/.831 at Baylor)
SG -- Gary Franklin (4.0 ppg, 1.6 apg, 1.1 rpg, 0.4 spg in 17.4 mpg; .351/.339/.757 at Baylor)
SF -- Patrick Fields (8.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.9 spg in 21.0 mpg; .436/.360/.659 at Baylor)
SF -- Nuni Omot (7.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.1 apg, 0.4 spg in 18.4 mpg; .464/.401/.843 at Baylor)
SF/PF -- Tim Bush (7.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.1 apg, 0.8 spg in 25.7 mpg; .409/.326/.776 at Baylor)

Other frontcourt options (slim pickin's): Mark Shepherd (1.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.4 bpg in 11.4 mpg); Deng Deng (2.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 bpg in 8.8 mpg); Delbert Simpson (2.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.7 bpg in 8.5 mpg)
whitetrash
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I would rework the Transfers In and eliminate JUCOs, since they have been a part of basketball roster building for decades (BU's greatest JUCO transfer was Vinnie Johnson, followed by Terry Black and William Chatmon). See what you come up with when you only consider transfers from other 4 year schools (PSit's ok if you include JUCOs who spent FR year at a 4 year school, then SO at JUCO).
JP1037
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Impressive work. Hard to believe the talent we have had from transfers. Incredible pool of talent.
parch
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What's most interesting about Drew's recruiting process is how often he nails the character of the kid before he gets campus. It's a giant guessing game of course and no one gets it right always, but how often do we really have character issues?

Al Freeman is honestly the only supremely talented "what if" character player I can think of, suspended for his actions despite having all the talent in the world. We'll miss on talent evals, but so rare to have just a whiff on personality, which is pretty rare.

As a side note to this conversation, go look up LJ Rose's profile on Houston's official athletic website. His high school is listed as Baylor.
bear2be2
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parch said:

What's most interesting about Drew's recruiting process is how often he nails the character of the kid before he gets campus. It's a giant guessing game of course and no one gets it right always, but how often do we really have character issues?

Al Freeman is honestly the only supremely talented "what if" character player I can think of, suspended for his actions despite having all the talent in the world. We'll miss on talent evals, but so rare to have just a whiff on personality, which is pretty rare.

As a side note to this conversation, go look up LJ Rose's profile on Houston's official athletic website. His high school is listed as Baylor.
Al's issues seemed more selfishness related than a team policy or major character issue.

The only guys since the early, early years that we've had to dismiss or usher out of our program early that I'm aware were J'Mison Morgan and Mario Kegler.
bear2be2
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parch said:

What's most interesting about Drew's recruiting process is how often he nails the character of the kid before he gets campus. It's a giant guessing game of course and no one gets it right always, but how often do we really have character issues?

Al Freeman is honestly the only supremely talented "what if" character player I can think of, suspended for his actions despite having all the talent in the world. We'll miss on talent evals, but so rare to have just a whiff on personality, which is pretty rare.

As a side note to this conversation, go look up LJ Rose's profile on Houston's official athletic website. His high school is listed as Baylor.
The thing I'm most fascinated by is how often we have mined elite talent out or modest situations. We've found a whole lot of diamonds in the rough.
Task Force 2015
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I think David Wesley should be added to the short list of great all-time 2-4 transfers.He averaged 17 points a game at BU followed by a 15 year pro career.He didn't play for Drew but he helped Scott's program when he returned to BU to work on his degree.
bear2be2
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Task Force 2015 said:

I think David Wesley should be added to the short list of great all-time 2-4 transfers.He averaged 17 points a game at BU followed by a 15 year pro career.He didn't play for Drew but he helped Scott's program when he returned to BU to work on his degree.
My list was only from the Scott Drew era. I didn't want to go back any farther than that.

But Wesley would definitely have been included if I had.
DallasBear9902
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I believe Jared Butler was technically a transfer as he had been enrolled at Bama and taking summer classes, but was permitted to play right away because he got an unconditional release from Alabama.
bear2be2
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DallasBear9902 said:

I believe Jared Butler was technically a transfer as he had been enrolled at Bama and taking summer classes, but was permitted to play right away because he got an unconditional release from Alabama.
Yeah, I didn't include him because he never played for Alabama and was enrolled at Baylor for the fall semester of his freshman year.
Crawfoso1973
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Wonderful research and fun thread. I would personally move one of either Gillespie, O'Neal, or EJ ahead of Acuil and Bridges ahead of HT. Also hard to keep Flag who has a national title ring below PJ.
Crawfoso1973
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parch said:

What's most interesting about Drew's recruiting process is how often he nails the character of the kid before he gets campus. It's a giant guessing game of course and no one gets it right always, but how often do we really have character issues?

Al Freeman is honestly the only supremely talented "what if" character player I can think of, suspended for his actions despite having all the talent in the world. We'll miss on talent evals, but so rare to have just a whiff on personality, which is pretty rare.

As a side note to this conversation, go look up LJ Rose's profile on Houston's official athletic website. His high school is listed as Baylor.
Yes and the strong character guys even extend to one and done guys. Sochan a lottery pick willing to not even start for us last year. KB a low proflle low usage guy not demanding touches. Keyonte drawing a charge per game and diving on the floor for loose balls.
jdrs
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Wow! Transfers have been great for Baylor.
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