Thamba needs benched. Guarantee you Josh O could get us at least 1 frigging rebound

Outrebounded 44-17, got a TOTAL of 5 in the 2nd half.

charlesturk54 said:

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Outrebounded 44-17, got a TOTAL of 5 in the 2nd half.

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Charmin soft right there.

Seriously...what is the deal with Jon? Is he not healthy again? Whatever we could possibly get from Josh would be better than what Flo has given us lately. Inexcusable to be this inept.

CST Bear said:

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Seriously...what is the deal with Jon? Is he not healthy again? Whatever we could possibly get from Josh would be better than what Flo has given us lately. Inexcusable to be this inept.

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Iowa State is a terrible matchup for Flo. The last two games have been two of his worst of the season. He just can't handle their combination of length and athleticism inside.

bear2be2 said:

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CST Bear said:

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Seriously...what is the deal with Jon? Is he not healthy again? Whatever we could possibly get from Josh would be better than what Flo has given us lately. Inexcusable to be this inept.

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Iowa State is a terrible matchup for Flo. The last two games have been two of his worst of the season. He just can't handle their combination of length and athleticism inside.

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That much is obvious. The fact that we (staff and players)

A) wilted after Saturday's beating
B) seemingly have no other options

is maddening. I'd understand if both Josh and Jon weren't 100% is all I'm saying.

True Grit said:

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I'm far more frustrated with the lack of hustle, intensity, and urgency. The rebounding totals for this game are just shocking. ISU wanted it more.

Thamba had 0 rebounds in 29 minutes of play. You would think one would just fall in his hands. He had more fouls (3) than points (2) and rebounds (0). Terrible...

If Bridges wouldn't have gone off for 28 on 10-11 shooting, we would have lost this game by 20+.

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Those things frustrate me too. But we've been a soft, finesse team all year. If you're going to be a soft, finesse team, you'd damn well better show up on offense. We don't too often.

There lies, damn lies and our KenPom offensive rating. We're a good offensive team, obviously. But we have way too many dry spells for a team with our guard talent.

bear2be2 said:

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I love Scott Drew. I love Baylor basketball. But this particular team frustrates me to no end. I genuinely do not enjoy watching it play most games.

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1000% concur with this. I know I'm in the minority but I love Baylor basketball more than Baylor football. But this team has been difficult to watch all year. The eye test is a nebulous, subjective concept but whatever one wants to use to define it, this team doesn't pass it. You see all of the incredible individual talent, and you keep waiting for it to gel into one strong cohesive team, and it just can't seem to make it. It's not like they're not trying. I don't anyone to think I'm implying that. And, I'm sure it's just as frustrating for Drew and his staff as it is for me and others because you just see the possibilities.

Unfortunately, he just doesn't have bounce. You see it clearly on the second jump.. he can't explode for that second jump which is critical in tips and contested boards. We whiffed on all wings for the last few years outside of Bridges.

Quinton said:

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Unfortunately, he just doesn't have bounce. You see it clearly on the second jump.. he can't explode for that second jump which is critical in tips and contested boards. We whiffed on all wings for the last few years outside of Bridges.

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Brown, Mayer, Sochan say hello. They led us to a #1 ranking prior to the injuries. Mayer saved more than one victory in the Championship year.

This team has no Power 5 wings except for Bridges.

I do wonder about JTT's health based on second half playing time.

I think in March Madness our range of outcomes includes out in the first round and winning it all. I realize that is not predictive but this is the least predictive team I remember and my freshman year I was at the HOT when Vinny went for 50.

I can't remember the last time a Baylor team got out rebounded like that. Terrible!

Quinton said:

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Unfortunately, he just doesn't have bounce. You see it clearly on the second jump.. he can't explode for that second jump which is critical in tips and contested boards. We whiffed on all wings for the last few years outside of Bridges.

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Also seems like he is playing with oven mitts on, if he happens to get his hands on the ball tends to fumble it away

82, we've gone over this here. We are talking about the current roster. Sochan was too good a prospect so we only got one year instead of the two we expected. Bad break. I agree those guys were good.

Of the current guys we have two wing/bigs that can't play at this level. We have a huge transfer miss.. that's 3. We also had a culture miss with Dain. Jon is just hobbled so his lateral quickness and leaping ability is hindered. It's unfortunate.

Healthy Jon and Sochan solve 90% of our problems and would help mitigate our poor perimeter D

I do not understand why we continue to switch all and end up with Flo on quick guards and L.J. on big posts. This year's team cannot guard all 5 positions and keep switching every time to say the least. I feel we needed to do something radical and different defensively to win. We have not done it.

hitmanmw said:

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Where is Josh O?? Who in their right mind thinks he would be worse than Thamba???

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I asked this question when they sat him when EJ returned. Showing to be a mistake for the present and possibly the future. Roughly comparable to how Aranda wouldn' t play the back up QB in losing seasons to get them some needed experience. I'm not suggesting Josh should have played heavy minutes, but he should have maintained a similar workload as earlier in the season.

charlesturk54 said:

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Outrebounded 44-17, got a TOTAL of 5 in the 2nd half.

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Over all the decades, the Globetrotters beat the Washington Generals some 16,000 times..not sure they ever outrebounded the Generals by that great a margin. :-)

Quinton said:

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82, we've gone over this here. We are talking about the current roster. Sochan was too good a prospect so we only got one year instead of the two we expected. Bad break. I agree those guys were good.

Of the current guys we have two wing/bigs that can't play at this level. We have a huge transfer miss.. that's 3. We also had a culture miss with Dain. Jon is just hobbled so his lateral quickness and leaping ability is hindered. It's unfortunate.

Healthy Jon and Sochan solve 90% of our problems and would help mitigate our poor perimeter D

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With the transfer portal, Sochan's departure isn't really an excuse to be this bad at that SF/PF position.

It really all comes down to swinging and missing on Lohner, which was a monumental whiff by Drew this year. His complete inability to contribute in any way to this team is a massive problem.

FFA0329 said:

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I do not understand why we continue to switch all and end up with Flo on quick guards and L.J. on big posts. This year's team cannot guard all 5 positions and keep switching every time to say the least. I feel we needed to do something radical and different defensively to win. We have not done it.

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I've been asking this same question all season. It makes no sense whatsoever to switch with these guys. Most of them can't guard their own position and we're asking them to switch into obvious mismatches. It truly is baffling.

I'm ready for any criticism this may bring. I've said all year we put the ball in Keyonte George's hand since day one and he has not delivered. He has not delivered offensively with too many misses and wild out of control shots and many wide open misses. Way to many turnovers (charges and out of control passes that were intercepted or thrown away). His defense is non-existent.
That said, he is a great player with great upside. He should have been treated like the freshman he is. Non starter, place in the game to help us at times and pulled for crunch time. Instead he was placed as our leader and played significant minutes when he should have been in the bench learning to come back to help us next year as a significant sophomore.
I hate to one and done system.

Yes, truly baffling! On the morning after, I still cannot believe we were out-rebounded 44-17. If we just grabbed 4-5 more boards, we probably win that game. Was that the worst rebounding difference in recent history? I don't know the record, but I have never seen a stat like that for a BU team.

Smashmouth said:

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I'm ready for any criticism this may bring. I've said all year we put the ball in Keyonte George's hand since day one and he has not delivered. He has not delivered offensively with too many misses and wild out of control shots and many wide open misses. Way to many turnovers (charges and out of control passes that were intercepted or thrown away). His defense is non-existent.
That said, he is a great player with great upside. He should have been treated like the freshman he is. Non starter, place in the game to help us at times and pulled for crunch time. Instead he was placed as our leader and played significant minutes when he should have been in the bench learning to come back to help us next year as a significant sophomore.
I hate to one and done system.

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We run a 3 guard system and Key is one of our top 3 guards. He is better than Love and Bonner so he deserves to start not come off the bench. Could he be more efficient? Yes. Could he improve defensivley? Yes. But he is not the source of our problems this year. If you wanna blame individual players, blame Flo for his dramatic regression. Blame the trio of Lohner/Loveday/Turner for sucking up 3 scholarships and roster spots while providing zero current production and zero future upside. As for Key, he is the big 12 freshman of the year so he is not a bust and I'm glad he's a Baylor Bear for the year we have him. Bear2be, Iowa and others feel free to fire away.

You're as soft as this years Bear squad, paper thin! Not going to flame away. As far as Loveday, Turner, Lohner. Every team everywhere has benchwarmers so they aren't "sucking up scholarships" Drew's rotations are always 8 deep at most by this time of year so if it's not Turner and co it's going to be insert name. As far as George goes. The talents there no one should deny that. He also loafs defensively and bogs down the offense when the ball sticks in his hands. He's also good for 4-5 absolutely garbage shots a game leading to easy buckets for the opponent. And lastly thank you thinking of me on this chilly March Iowa Friday

Smashmouth said:

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I'm ready for any criticism this may bring. I've said all year we put the ball in Keyonte George's hand since day one and he has not delivered. He has not delivered offensively with too many misses and wild out of control shots and many wide open misses. Way to many turnovers (charges and out of control passes that were intercepted or thrown away). His defense is non-existent.
That said, he is a great player with great upside. He should have been treated like the freshman he is. Non starter, place in the game to help us at times and pulled for crunch time. Instead he was placed as our leader and played significant minutes when he should have been in the bench learning to come back to help us next year as a significant sophomore.
I hate to one and done system.

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George continues to be discussed as a lottery pick, but that is hard to understand. Lottery picks are
generally expected to be ready to impact the NBA team that selects them, right away. There is a reason why a team has a lottery pick in the first place. He is very young and will be a great player in the NBA at some point, but that isn't likely for a few years

BEAR 45 said:

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Smashmouth said:

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I'm ready for any criticism this may bring. I've said all year we put the ball in Keyonte George's hand since day one and he has not delivered. He has not delivered offensively with too many misses and wild out of control shots and many wide open misses. Way to many turnovers (charges and out of control passes that were intercepted or thrown away). His defense is non-existent.
That said, he is a great player with great upside. He should have been treated like the freshman he is. Non starter, place in the game to help us at times and pulled for crunch time. Instead he was placed as our leader and played significant minutes when he should have been in the bench learning to come back to help us next year as a significant sophomore.
I hate to one and done system.

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George continues to be discussed as a lottery pick, but that is hard to understand. Lottery picks are
generally expected to be ready to impact the NBA team that selects them, right away. There is a reason why a team has a lottery pick in the first place. He is very young and will be a great player in the NBA at some point, but that isn't likely for a few years

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Wrong. Whether we like it or not, NBA GMs view lottery picks as commodities like the stock market. Right or wrong some are drafted based on future potential not immediate production.

IowaBear said:

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You're as soft as this years Bear squad, paper thin! Not going to flame away. As far as Loveday, Turner, Lohner. Every team everywhere has benchwarmers so they aren't "sucking up scholarships" Drew's rotations are always 8 deep at most by this time of year so if it's not Turner and co it's going to be insert name. As far as George goes. The talents there no one should deny that. He also loafs defensively and bogs down the offense when the ball sticks in his hands. He's also good for 4-5 absolutely garbage shots a game leading to easy buckets for the opponent. And lastly thank you thinking of me on this chilly March Iowa Friday

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I don't disagree on George's flaws but my point is he's not the source of this team's issues. A lot of misplaced frustration and anger is projected toward him but our issue is we don't have defensive stalwarts like we had in years past. Can't blame Keyonte solely for our defensive shortcomings.

Fully agree Drew runs a tight rotation but bench spots I believe should be used for immediate production or redshirts / developmental guys with future upside. Unfortunately the trio of Lohner / Turner / Loveday offer neither current production nor future upside. Behind closed doors I'm sure our staff would agree they whiffed all three.

hitmanmw said:

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Where is Josh O?? Who in their right mind thinks he would be worse than Thamba???

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Josh O has the best defensive and offensive efficiency among the post players and 2nd best offensive efficiency on the team (realgm.com if you want to check those stats). maybe that's not the best metric because when he has played but I think he is the best defender and rebounder among the post players which is what we need the most right now.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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IowaBear said:

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You're as soft as this years Bear squad, paper thin! Not going to flame away. As far as Loveday, Turner, Lohner. Every team everywhere has benchwarmers so they aren't "sucking up scholarships" Drew's rotations are always 8 deep at most by this time of year so if it's not Turner and co it's going to be insert name. As far as George goes. The talents there no one should deny that. He also loafs defensively and bogs down the offense when the ball sticks in his hands. He's also good for 4-5 absolutely garbage shots a game leading to easy buckets for the opponent. And lastly thank you thinking of me on this chilly March Iowa Friday

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I don't disagree on George's flaws but my point is he's not the source of this team's issues. A lot of misplaced frustration and anger is projected toward him but our issue is we don't have defensive stalwarts like we had in years past. Can't blame Keyonte solely for our defensive shortcomings.

Fully agree Drew runs a tight rotation but bench spots I believe should be used for immediate production or redshirts / developmental guys with future upside. Unfortunately the trio of Lohner / Turner / Loveday offer neither current production nor future upside. Behind closed doors I'm sure our staff would agree they whiffed all three.

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No one player is the source of our team's issues, but George is certainly a source. He contributes heavily to many of this team's most glaring weakness -- weak, soft defense, extended periods with no or poor ball-movement, consistently bad shot selection, ill-advised and untimely turnovers, etc.

That he does so seemingly unchecked is a source of great frustration for me. I have nothing whatsoever against Key as a person, but I don't like his game. I'm ready for him to move on.