Discuss.

Cavs view - We get an absolute work horse glue guy in Jae Crowder who is signed through 2020 for the Bird Exception and a scoring machine in Isaiah Thomas Jr. AND an unprotected Nets pick in 18 (LOL lottery lock) for a guy Kyrie Irving who was never going to play another game for us.

Celtics view - We got a four time All Star and marquee player in Kyrie Irving and gave up Jae Crowder who is going to eventually give way to Jayson Tatum and we would have to get rid of to resign Thomas anyway. Best case scenario out of three Top 3 picks (Tatum, Brown, Brooklyn '18) we could sign one of those guys to veteran contracts and all we did was develop them for someone else.

Conclusion - This helps Cleveland because it gets rid of Kyrie and gets them immediate help for Lebron in Thomas and Crowder. Throw in a lottery pick to start planning for the post-Lebron era.

But the NBA is a league of stars and unless the Cars draft one with that lottery pick there is only one Hall of Famer in this trade. That is Kyrie Irving.

Game. Ainge.

Both teams did well.

I don't think Irving will resign in Boston.

I think Cleveland won this deal.

I don't think Irving, Horford and Hayward > Lebron Love and IT.

Crowder is under rated. Boston got rid of a lot to get Hayward. Their bench sucks bigtime now.

Cavs got better and lessened their luxury tax. IT, and a 1st plus bringing in Wade (which will happen IMO) may make him stay home. People will take min to come play with Lebron, IT, Wade, Love.

Open to any and all arguments!

Love ITJ but him and Wade on the same court would be 1980's Denver Nugget level defense.

BOTH teams got better. And certainly if Cavs draft a perennial all star and Tatum and Brown end up being NBA role players this trade will look a lot different.

And remember this....

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

An Eastern Conference team wins the NBA title and its not Cleveland.

---

---

$ic Em

Called my shot.

Cavs win.

Kyrie and IT are about the same as far as scoring goes, what puts Kyrie ahead of IT is his handles and ability to finish at the rim.

Crowder is going to be a big piece. Another guy that can play some good defense and knock down shots, just like Lebron likes.

The 1st round pick is being overlooked. That pick will 100% be a 1-3 (the Nets are TRASH).

As far as who got better. Cavs got better at both ends of the floor.
Celtics got better, but took a hit on the defensive end. Had they kept Bradley, I feel as if he would've been included in this trade as well.

Cavs still win in 5 or 6 tho.

People point to PPG. But The Celtics next best scorer was Avery Bradley. Kylie was playing with Lebron. We will see those numbers shift.

Celtics have Kyrie Hayward Hofford two Top 3 picks and Brad Stevens. Celtics roll in 6 and Lebron tuck his tail and "takes his talents" to Golden state.

18.

Both teams did well but if the goal is championships this year, there is no question that Boston put themselves in a position to compete with Golden State this year.

Boston Starters

PG: Kyrie Irving
SG: Gordon Hayward
SF: Jaylen Brown
PF: Al Horford
C: Aron Baynes

Bench

Marcus Smart
Jayson Tatum
Marcus Morris
Terry Rozier
Shane Larkin
Guerschon Yabusele
Abdel Nader
Semi Ojeleye
Daniel Theis


Besides Smart and Tatum, their bench is questionable IMO. Starters look great.

Cleveland Starters

PG- Isaiah Thomas
SG- JR Smith
SF- LeBron James
PF- Kevin Love
C- Tristan Thompson

Bench

Edy Tavares
Ante Zizic
Channing Frye
Jae Crowder
Jeff Green
Kyle Korver
Richard Jefferson
Cedi Osman
Iman Shumpert
Derrick Rose
Jose Calderon


Not that their bench is much better but I would take Crowder over Smart. You will probably add Wade to the bench cause Banana Boat.

Thompson is much better than Baynes at C.
Horford better than Love at PF, but not leaps and bounds better.
LeBron and Jaylen Brown are pretty equal......eye roll
Hayward over JR Smith at SG
Irving over IT because he plays a bit better on D. Offense it is a pick'em.

Bench I would have to give to Cleveland, Crowder, Frye, Jeff Green, scrubs > Smart, Tatum, scrubs.

Plus Cleveland gets a guaranteed top 3 pick, and sheds 20 million in luxury tax? Sheesh.

Say that the Cavs get to add.....idk Michael Porter when the Nets get the #1 pick. I think Bron may actually stay, especially when another friend or 2 come to Cleveland just because.

Cavs win over Celtics. Why? Lebron James.

IT is going to be even more lethal if he's healthy. LeBron is going to take A LOT of pressure off him, and he's in his contract year so you know he's going to ball out and earn that 100+mill contract.

It gets interesting for the Cavs next year.

Let's say Lebron stays. That pick is most likely going to be a #1 pick. If Lebron stays, do you trade that pick for a top player?

Boston will at best get 2 wins against the Cavs. Smart imo is not a factor. Tatum is still a rookie.

The Cavs have Rose who i think is going to be better than last year and he wasn't bad at all then. Crowder, Green,Korver, Jefferson, Frye, and Shump (i think they trade him), are good players off the bench.
I actually think they should give Bogut one more shot.

Roughneck said:

---

People point to PPG. But The Celtics next best scorer was Avery Bradley. Kylie was playing with Lebron. We will see those numbers shift.

Celtics have Kyrie Hayward Hofford two Top 3 picks and Brad Stevens. Celtics roll in 6 and Lebron tuck his tail and "takes his talents" to Golden state.

18.

---

Trading Bradley was a horrible move

BaylorBears_254 said:

---

Roughneck said:

---

People point to PPG. But The Celtics next best scorer was Avery Bradley. Kylie was playing with Lebron. We will see those numbers shift.

Celtics have Kyrie Hayward Hofford two Top 3 picks and Brad Stevens. Celtics roll in 6 and Lebron tuck his tail and "takes his talents" to Golden state.

18.

---

Trading Bradley was a horrible move

---

Signing Gordon Hayward was a tremendous move. But it also meant you had to clear cap space. It would have been impossible for the Celtics to re-sign Bradly after this season when he is an UFA. So you trade Bradley to get Hayward. Every single time.

Roughneck said:

---

BaylorBears_254 said:

---

Roughneck said:

---

People point to PPG. But The Celtics next best scorer was Avery Bradley. Kylie was playing with Lebron. We will see those numbers shift.

Celtics have Kyrie Hayward Hofford two Top 3 picks and Brad Stevens. Celtics roll in 6 and Lebron tuck his tail and "takes his talents" to Golden state.

18.

---

Trading Bradley was a horrible move

---

Signing Gordon Hayward was a tremendous move. But it also meant you had to clear cap space. It would have been impossible for the Celtics to re-sign Bradly after this season when he is an UFA. So you trade Bradley to get Hayward. Every single time.

---

That's definitely understandable but I would've traded Crowder before Bradley. Especially since you guys (Im assuming you're a C's fan) have Brown and Tatum in the mix.

Although it's funny because, either way it went, you guys would've traded both lol. Had Bradley been on the C's, Cleveland would've gotten him.

Celtics may be one of the worst defensive teams. A lot of scoring power, but defense is going to be an issue.

Nonetheless, I could see the Celtics being REAAAALLY good in the bext few years. They still have so many assets, and I think they will make a run at Cousins next offseason.

The last time Danny Ainge traded for two All Stars Lebron went crying to Miami.

Where do you think he'll go crying to this time?

I think the Lakers, but I think the Rockets might have a shot too.

Roughneck said:

---

The last time Danny Ainge traded for two All Stars Lebron went crying to Miami.

Where do you think he'll go crying to this time?

I think the Lakers, but I think the Rockets might have a shot too.

---

LeBron didn't cry anywhere lol. He was on a team with a bunch of nobodies. He went to Miami and ended the Celtics and put them in rebuild mode.

As long as LeBron is in the east, he will be in the Finals. It's just that simple. I feel like he could play another 5yrs AT HIS BEST.

https://instagr.am/p/BYKUfsFg4KW

When the going gets tough, Lebron gets going. He's not a bad person, it's just a millennial thing.

People make it seem as if he's been on 4-5 different teams lol.

He had a right to leave after his first 7 seasons in Cleveland. They were not trying to get him any help and has you see now, Dan Gilbert has learned from that.

The Miami team wasn't going to contend any longer. Bosh was injury prone and so was D Wade. He was going to be in another Cleveland situation.

Lebron is a competitor, he is not the one to sit around around 3-4 years of rebuilding, especially after his first 7 seasons of not having any help.

No doubt. Reminds me of when Jordan signed with the Pistons in 1989. What a competitor.

Roughneck said:

---

No doubt. Reminds me of when Jordan signed with the Pistons in 1989. What a competitor.

---

Yea and Jordan never beat those Pistons until Pippen came.

You let me know if Jordan would've won a Championship on that Cleveland team...

Jordan got drafted in '83 by the Bulls.

Jordan got whipped by the Celtics.

Jordan kept grinding

Pippen came in '87.

Jordan got whipped by the Pistons.

Jordan kept grinding.

Jordan got 6 rings.

When Lebron retires with three rings all people will remember is that Jordan kept grinding.

Jordan is GOAT

Bird will say it. Isaiah will say it.

GOAT.

Roughneck said:

---

Jordan got drafted in '83 by the Bulls.

Jordan got whipped by the Celtics.

Jordan kept grinding

Pippen came in '87.

Jordan got whipped by the Pistons.

Jordan kept grinding.

Jordan got 6 rings.

When Lebron retires with three rings all people will remember is that Jordan kept grinding.

Jordan is GOAT

Bird will say it. Isaiah will say it.

GOAT.

---

Are you really stating that Lebron didn't grind or isn't grinding? He's been to 7 straight finals. 1 finals was truly his fault. Other than that he's put the team on his back each year. The 73-9 Warriors had to add a 4th star for this man.

Had Lebron stayed on that Cleveland team he would have 0 rings.

Truth is, when Lebron retires he will still be considered 1a or 1b to Jordan, especially if he gets another Championship .

Goodness give this man his respect lol.

Top player no doubt. On the level of Bird Magic and Isaiah. But not Jordan. It's not close. No guy with three titles is going to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. No matter how many times he gets beat in the NBA finals.

If Jordan would have "taken his talents" to the Lakers and not played baseball he would have 12 rings.

I used to have this same discussion with the Kobe-nistas. Nobody seriously compares Kobe to Jordan now but they swore it was true. And Kobe has accomplished more than Lebron

Roughneck said:

---

Top player no doubt. On the level of Bird Magic and Isaiah. But not Jordan. It's not close. No guy with three titles is going to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. No matter how many times he gets beat in the NBA finals.

If Jordan would have "taken his talents" to the Lakers and not played baseball he would have 12 rings.

I used to have this same discussion with the Kobe-nistas. Nobody seriously compares Kobe to Jordan now but they swore it was true. And Kobe has accomplished more than Lebron

---

All I read was "Since Lebron only has 3 titles amd Jordan has 6, he can't be on Jordans level"

If thats the case, Bill Russell is the best player to ever play the game.

People are honestly just afraid to admit that this man will end his career being 1a or 1b.

Not even remotely concerned about that possibility.

Lebron will retire 1a to Steph perhaps

Roughneck said:

---

Not even remotely concerned about that possibility.

Lebron will retire 1a to Steph perhaps

---

Lmaoo. This conversation is officially over. Curry will retire the best shooter ever and that's it. He won't be close to Lebron.

BaylorBears_254 said:

---

Roughneck said:

---

Not even remotely concerned about that possibility.

Lebron will retire 1a to Steph perhaps

---

Lmaoo. This conversation is officially over. Curry will retire the best shooter ever and that's it. He won't be close to Lebron.

---

He only needs one more Ring and two more MVP's to match Lebron and he's played half as long.

Facts usually end conversations with Lebron fanboys

Roughneck said:

---

BaylorBears_254 said:

---

Roughneck said:

---

Not even remotely concerned about that possibility.

Lebron will retire 1a to Steph perhaps

---

Lmaoo. This conversation is officially over. Curry will retire the best shooter ever and that's it. He won't be close to Lebron.

---

He only needs one more Ring and two more MVP's to match Lebron and he's played half as long.

Facts usually end conversations with Lebron fanboys

---

So just because he has more rings, that makes him better? So now it is all about the rings when you just said it wasn't lol.

At least have a valuable argument. Steph is no where near Lebrons level and never will be. What facts have you said?

I ended tge conversation because I knew you were a delusional Lebron hater at first but the Steph comment pushed you over the edge lmao.

Please let me know when Steph comes close to changing the landscape of the NBA like Lebron has...There can always be another Steph but there will never be another Lebron

Others suffering from delusion:

NBA sportswriters who awarded Curry the MVP two out of the last three years
Efficiency Ratings
The NBA Championship Trophy

If all Curry could do is shoot he would be Hubert Davis or Craig Hodges. Curry's best basketball is ahead of him. Lebron is one of the top players in the league but his best basketball is behind him. Ultimately they will have comparable careers. Neither of them (or anyone) is Jordan.

Roughneck said:

---

Others suffering from delusion:

NBA sportswriters who awarded Curry the MVP two out of the last three years
Efficiency Ratings
The NBA Championship Trophy

If all Curry could do is shoot he would be Hubert Davis or Craig Hodges. Curry's best basketball is ahead of him. Lebron is one of the top players in the league but his best basketball is behind him. Ultimately they will have comparable careers. Neither of them (or anyone) is Jordan.

---

Best Basketball is behind him? what? He just got done dling something that has never been done before and he did it against one of if not the most dominant team the NBA has ever seen.

Please stop will the non sense lol. Curry is nowhere mear the all around player and dominant player Lebron is and he never will be.

Roughneck said:

---

Top player no doubt. On the level of Bird Magic and Isaiah. But not Jordan. It's not close. No guy with three titles is going to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. No matter how many times he gets beat in the NBA finals.

If Jordan would have "taken his talents" to the Lakers and not played baseball he would have 12 rings.

I used to have this same discussion with the Kobe-nistas. Nobody seriously compares Kobe to Jordan now but they swore it was true. And Kobe has accomplished more than Lebron

---

So you only measure NBA players by rings?

You did stumble on the truth that Jordan is greatest ever. It did help he hit his peak at a time when the second best player was Hakeem, Malone or Barkley. League is deeper in superstars now I think, but hard to compare eras

Kobe doesn't have all those titles without Shaq, that is a fact so imo LeBron has achieved more than Kobe

I got off topic

Boston won trade because they got a top 10 player

Trade actually may not go through. IT's hip may hold up things

is it his hip for sure or just Cleveland having regrets? no way C's give them Tatum or Brown.

bularry said:

---

is it his hip for sure or just Cleveland having regrets? no way C's give them Tatum or Brown.

---

Definitely the hip. I'm with Cleveland on this one. I thought they would ask for Brown or Tatum in the original trade.

This is why I feel like Cleveland wishes the C's didn't trade Bradley. They would've definitely have gotten IT, Crowder, Bradley, 1st pick, abd the Zizic guy.

Full disclosure, I'm from Cleveland and a Cleveland fan. Both teams did well in this trade and the Celtics got the best player in Kyrie. That being said, I still think Cleveland got the best of this deal. If healthy, IT can give Cavs pretty much everything they were getting from Kyrie and they shored up the defense with Crowder who can play some minutes guarding Draymond and Durant in a potential finals rematch. This Cleveland team is on paper a better match up for the Warriors than last years plus they added the draft pick to safeguard the future.

Celtics bring in a phenomenal player in Kyrie who is capable most nights of being the best player on the floor. I love Hayward as well. Horford is slightly overrated but a very good PF in the league. He's not better than Kevin Love. Whoever made that comment is wrong. The C's don't know it yet, but they will really really miss Crowder and Bradley. I think they did the right thing making the moves they did but both of those guys were key rotational pieces and they'll be very hard to replace. I've said for years that I'd kill to have Avery Bradley on the Cavs. Depth will be an issue and I haven't heard a single objective source say they think Boston can beat Cleveland in a playoff series after this trade. The fact that Cleveland made this trade shows they (and Lebron) certainly don't think they can.

Boston got the Superstar level player they have been coveting but the Cavs got the best of this trade.

Roughneck said:

---

Not even remotely concerned about that possibility.

Lebron will retire 1a to Steph perhaps

---

This takes absurdity to a whole new level.