historian said:

---

That is surprising

---

Yep. Especially including the first game in almost 40 years fling 0fer

But the stats are there on espn.com

That said I'm sure byu shoots 70% from 3 against us for the game and we can all say I told ya so

You need to watch games and not study stats. We gave that game away at the end of regulation and we gave it away again in OT. We were hardly shut down. We played poorly. Both ways of losing show the same stats, but watching shows how the stats happened.

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

You need to watch games and not study stats. We gave that game away at the end of regulation and we gave it away again in OT. We were hardly shut down. We played poorly. Both ways of losing show the same stats, but watching shows how the stats happened.

---

There are two teams on the floor every game. And elite offensive teams don't shoot 35 percent without being influenced by the defense. You always inflate our team and downplay the opposition. But K-State completely shut us down. They almost still lost because they're bad offensively. But we couldn't do anything on offense that night.

The most impressive part for KSU was their free throw defense. The fact that they held us to 47% from the charity stripe shows their defensive prowess. Tang is truly gifted.

It was a mix of both, and one can be true without negating the other. We played bad and they shut down the head of our snake RayJ which bogged down our entire offense. I think we figure it out and mop the floor with them, if we see them again in the big 12 tourney.

We would pound them at home, they aren't any good. It was a case of being shook on the road, not some incredible defense. Also hurts that their HC has intimate scheme familiarity and added motivation.

Well not pound, bc we play with our food in every game outside of Ou and the officiating debacle v Iowa St. But the point is that game was more self destruction

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

It was a mix of both, and one can be true without negating the other. We played bad and they shut down the head of our snake RayJ which bogged down our entire offense. I think we figure it out and mop the floor with them, if we see them again in the big 12 tourney.

---

I agree that we played poorly, but K-State frustrated RayJ in a way few teams have been able to all year. You have to give them credit for that.

K-State is a really good defensive team. They're bad offensively, but they've made scoring difficult for almost everyone they've played. They made Kansas look really bad offensively too.

I think we play man at BYU and hit Houston with a ton of Zones.

This is probably accurate. BYU is the best shooting team left on the schedule. Aside from Cryer Houston is blah from deep. Keeping them out of the lane would create some sizable scoring droughts.

They (Hou) are also small at guard. We have good length at guard. If we had figured out the defensive mystery this would be a good matchup.

As it is I agree we'll mix zone and Drew will hammer the team on keeping them off the offensive glass. And if/when they go over the back, make the foul obvious.

We need to go Zone in the second half vs BYU.

Mitch Henessey said:

---

The most impressive part for KSU was their free throw defense. The fact that they held us to 47% from the charity stripe shows their defensive prowess. Tang is truly gifted.

---

Post of the night

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

We need to go Zone in the second half vs BYU.

---

You can't zone BYU. They would shoot us out of it in minutes.

What we need is to not be incompetent in man against every competent offensive team we play. But it would appear that's too much to ask for a second straight year.

If it's too much to ask, then the obvious answer is we should go zone. If they beat us shooting 25 foot three pointers they beat us. We don't know how to help and switch. Last night was a glaring example of that problem.

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

If it's too much to ask, then the obvious answer is we should go zone. If they beat us shooting 25 foot three pointers they beat us. We don't know how to help and switch. Last night was a glaring example of that problem.

---

Our switching man defense is trash. You don't need to convince me of that. I hate this scheme and our team's complete inability to execute it. I've been saying it all year.

But zoning BYU isn't the answer. It's not even an answer. They would force us back into man in five possessions or less.

I know they can shoot, but you have to take your chances with 25 footers instead of absolutely uncontested dunks. That was bad, bad, bad pick and roll defense over and over again.

FFA0329 said:

---

I know they can shoot, but you have to take your chances with 25 footers instead of absolutely uncontested dunks. That was bad, bad, bad pick and roll defense over and over again.

---

Our pick-and-roll defense has been atrocious all year. The solution is to fix that, not try to zone one of the most prolific 3-point shooting teams in the country. The zone against a team like BYU is a band-aid at best and likely wouldn't yield any better results than our man.

I'm as big a zone fan as there is on this board, but it has its limitations, especially if your roster/team wasn't built to run it full time. A team that was built to run man has to be able to do it at at least a competent level. And adhering as strongly as we have to a switch-everything man scheme that requires elite individual defenders to run well seems like a really bad idea.

The Zone is clearly working!

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

The Zone is clearly working!

---

No one said it wouldn't work against TCU. They're not a jump-shooting team.

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

The Zone is clearly working!

---

And just for the record, I'm a zone fan. There are only two teams in this league I worry about zoning -- BYU and Texas because both have skilled post passers and multiple 3-point shooters.

I think we'll likely struggle some with the zone against Kansas, too, just because Self is a brilliant coach who will have a good gameplan for it.

But outside of those two or three opponents, and a couple we might face in March, I say "Zone 'em, baby." We're a much better zone team than man team. And the weaknesses in our zone are just the inherent weaknesses of a zone defense in general, not related to our inability to execute what it calls for. That same thing can't be said for our man defense.

Bill Self mentioned in his pre-game press conference we are playing more zone than the first time we played them. Hallelujah!

Also sounds like he has the same understanding of the meaning of "Day to Day" as Scott Drew.

bear2be2 said:

---

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

The Zone is clearly working!

---

I think we'll likely struggle some with the zone against Kansas, too, just because Self is a brilliant coach who will have a good gameplan for it.

---

Yep. If/when KU is relatively healthy and motivated, they can carve up most defenses. Even without great shooting.

They have a few games this year where you can tell Self wanted to make a point and they really put it to the defense. For whatever we think about him, Self is easily the best coach in this league and it isn't close. All 5 guys can pass really well when in rhythm. Dickinson can be really good passing out of the high post. The two games I've seen them in full (UConn and Houston) they completely carved up the defenses. They are capable.

Now all that said, they have the lowest floor of any KU team I can remember. Their depleted roster (already thin), strange fits, and lack of a one on one guy (McCullar is okay when healthy but not his primary game) make them high variability. We should win. But I believe that of every home game that isn't against a 18' Villanova or 12' Kentucky type team.