XII refs?

ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

Teams look alot different....

perrynative said:

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Teams look alot different....

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One is from a town on the Jersey Shore just south of Asbury Park, and one is from across the river from Philly and ranked the 14th most dangerous city in America.

If there is no replay available, there should be no overturned calls unless the other two referees see a blatant miss. What to do if there was any other contested call previously during the game going the other way? It would never end.

What is particularly egregious is that the trail official (the C) is the one who is supposed to make this call because he has the best perspective. The C official is whoever has rotated to the half court line trailing the play. His position of responsibility is what is happening outside the three point line, the sideline and time violations.

The trail official clearly called it a good basket. But then either the A or B official came and overturned it. It wasnt the second official's responsibility!!!!

Very tough pill to swallow.

Not for nothing, at BYU where Y. Missi got called for two second half offensive fouls trying to post up a smaller BYU defender. The first time the call was made by the trail official who was in the far opposite corner. I was screaming at the TV. The A and B officials had a clean view of the play, they were in position and the C official was fifty feet away calling an offensive foul on a post up? My brother, what are you even doing looking at that part of the court? Who is actually monitoring the weak side?

Just totally surreal to see how bad officiating has gotten. If you have the @BYU game recorded the first foul was at 17:10 to go in the first half. I'd love it if someone technologically savvy could capture that and post it. It really did change that game.

Jack Bauer said:

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this looks like the USA-USSR 1972 Olympics crew!

CRAZY ENDING IN NEW JERSEY ‼️
Camden Wins to go to the Finals 😳👀

But did they win????

Manasquan gets a put back bucket to take back the lead, with clear time on the clock. But the refs overturned the basket! 🙃 pic.twitter.com/lwa6S1S6uJ

— Hoop Fiends 🏀💉 (@hoopfiends) March 6, 2024

"One of the three officials counted the basket as beating the buzzer. The three officials then met at half court to confer. A second official saw the ball in the shooter's hands when the buzzer sounded. The officials then waved off the basket. Later, after being shown video clips, the second official agreed the basket should have counted," the statement read in part.

Quote:

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Manasquan High School has had its appeal regarding its wrongfully disallowed buzzer-beater in the New Jersey High School Basketball State Championship semifinals disallowed, but isn't calling it quits in its fight for justice. The Manasquan Board of Education has retained a law firm and is set to take legal action against the New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association (NJSIAA).
Manasquan had its berth into the State Championship finals ripped away by officials on Tuesday night in its 46-45 loss to Camden, a powerhouse program in the area.
The controversy unfolded with just under six seconds left in regulation after Camden hit two free throws to take a 46-45 lead. A Manasquan player threw up a tough three-point attempt that caught the front end of the rim, but the ball fell directly to teammate Griffin Linstra who scored the put-back tip to give his team the win at the buzzer.

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Higgins, is that you?

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

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Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

Perfect opportunity for the Camden coach/school officials to do the right thing and insist Manasquan move on to the state finals.

cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

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Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

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Very possible, but it is probably just as likely that they couldn't watch both the shot and clock, and did not have cameras to review.

Just awful.

Should be reversed.

This happened to me 30 years ago for my Texas TAPPS State Championship team. EXCEPT, the put back was good and they did not reverse. A paper showed a picture of the clock at 0.0 with our player still holding the ball. The ruling at the time was that it was the sound of the horn that determined the end of the game and the officials ruled that the horn had not sounded before he released.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

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Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

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Very possible, but it is probably just as likely that they couldn't watch both the shot and clock, and did not have cameras to review.

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Which is why there is a horn so they don't have to watch both.

cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

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Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

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Very possible, but it is probably just as likely that they couldn't watch both the shot and clock, and did not have cameras to review.

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Which is why there is a horn so they don't have to watch both.

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did you hear a horn in that clip?

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

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Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

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Very possible, but it is probably just as likely that they couldn't watch both the shot and clock, and did not have cameras to review.

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Which is why there is a horn so they don't have to watch both.

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did you hear a horn in that clip?

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video makes hearing anything other than the 10 people around the camera hard.

But no matter the size of the stadium and amount of fans there the horn should be able to be heard.

wongobear said:

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This happened to me 30 years ago for my Texas TAPPS State Championship team. EXCEPT, the put back was good and they did not reverse. A paper showed a picture of the clock at 0.0 with our player still holding the ball. The ruling at the time was that it was the sound of the horn that determined the end of the game and the officials ruled that the horn had not sounded before he released.

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There was a similar outcome in the Class 2A boys state tournament this year. A kid made a catch and shoot bucket before the clock hit zero and the buzzer sounded, but because there were only 0.3 seconds on the clock at the time of the inbounds pass it was over-ruled and declared the clock started late.

We also had a play in a 3A playoff game this year where a kid went coast-to-coast down one, taking like seven dribbles in 5 seconds for the winning layup at the buzzer. The clock started late, giving him a dribble before it started, and the ball may still have been on his finger tips when the clock hit 0.0. But those are really difficult calls for officials to make without replay.

cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

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Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

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Very possible, but it is probably just as likely that they couldn't watch both the shot and clock, and did not have cameras to review.

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Which is why there is a horn so they don't have to watch both.

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The problem is they're not always perfectly synchronized, especially in old high school gyms. On the play I mention above, if you slow down the video frame-for-frame, there's a very slight delay between the time the clock hit 0.0 and the buzzer sounded.

You're talking about tenths of a second, but in a lot of these cases, shots are either off or not in tenths of a second.

Without replay, these calls are almost impossible to make with 100 percent confidence. Unless it's an obvious miss that the other officials catch, they should go with their first instinct and stick with it. Because you start second-guessing what you saw and heard after that.

bear2be2 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ImABearToo said:

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XII refs?

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Hah, difference is that B12 refs would likely have had an agenda, while these guys most likely just made a bad call based on the buzzer.

---

Reading about this it sounds like there WAS an agenda.

The powerhouse got the call to go their way.

---

Very possible, but it is probably just as likely that they couldn't watch both the shot and clock, and did not have cameras to review.

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Which is why there is a horn so they don't have to watch both.

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The problem is they're not always perfectly synchronized, especially in old high school gyms. On the play I mention above, if you slow down the video frame-for-frame, there's a very slight delay between the time the clock hit 0.0 and the buzzer sounded.

You're talking about tenths of a second, but in a lot of these cases, shots are either off or not in tenths of a second.

Without replay, these calls are almost impossible to make with 100 percent confidence. Unless it's an obvious miss that the other officials catch, they should go with their first instinct and stick with it. Because you start second-guessing what you saw and heard after that.

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The other problem is that when you are relying on video and sound (from a cell phone) you do get into the delay caused by where the video is in relation to the buzzer and other issues like is the person's hand over the microphone, etc. It isn't like a college/NBA game where all the cameras are synchronized with the clock or the backboard lighting up with the clock expiration.