We have first round exit written all over us. Some mid major program is going to shoot lights out on us.

Really getting tired ofDrew underperforming in the Big12 tournament

ALLBEAR said:

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Really getting tired ofDrew underperforming in the Big12 tournament

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I don't really care about the conference tournaments. The only situation I'd care about it in is if we were on the bubble.

Being that it is the only hardware we are getting this season?

With the dismal shooting at the start of games becoming more frequent getting bounced in the first two rounds is extremely likely. These guys don't seem to understand it's great to start fast.

If only someone would explain it to them

Johnny Bear said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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ALLBEAR said:

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Really getting tired ofDrew underperforming in the Big12 tournament

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I don't really care about the conference tournaments. The only situation I'd care about it in is if we were on the bubble.

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We all understand the greater significance of the Big Dance, but I still don't understand the "who gives a crap" attitude about the Big 12 Tournament. While it doesn't carry the weight of the regular season conference championship, it is still a chance at a conference title and given that we've never won a conference tournament on the men's side in our entire history (even including our time in the SWC) you'd think from a pride standpoint we'd be hungry to win one. Moreover, as far as this season goes, by laying an egg in the semis we may have just played ourselves into a 4 seed - so it does count for something in that regard as well. Again, yes the Dance is far more important and maybe we will get it together and make the deep run this team is capable of, but still this burgeoning "tradition" of stinking it up in the Big 12 Tourney is getting old.

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Thank you. That is loser mentality

ALLBEAR said:

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Being that it is the only hardware we are getting this season?

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You should apply for his job.

Makes sense for a team that doesn't play good defense. If the shots aren't dropping call 911.

Love has shot 48% from 3 in 24 games this season. We need him back badly.

I'm a giant proponent of taking and making threes. And there's a good case this number argues, "Keep shooting to beat variance," but this group has not shown it can win when it shoots poorly.

— Kendall (@kendallkaut) March 16, 2024

DP4LIFE said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Mitch Henessey said:

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ALLBEAR said:

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Really getting tired ofDrew underperforming in the Big12 tournament

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I don't really care about the conference tournaments. The only situation I'd care about it in is if we were on the bubble.

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We all understand the greater significance of the Big Dance, but I still don't understand the "who gives a crap" attitude about the Big 12 Tournament. While it doesn't carry the weight of the regular season conference championship, it is still a chance at a conference title and given that we've never won a conference tournament on the men's side in our entire history (even including our time in the SWC) you'd think from a pride standpoint we'd be hungry to win one. Moreover, as far as this season goes, by laying an egg in the semis we may have just played ourselves into a 4 seed - so it does count for something in that regard as well. Again, yes the Dance is far more important and maybe we will get it together and make the deep run this team is capable of, but still this burgeoning "tradition" of stinking it up in the Big 12 Tourney is getting old.

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We're solidly a 3. Losing to one of the high two seeds on a neutral court isn't going to hurt us in that regard.

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Nothing neutral about playing ISU in KC. DeFacto home game for them.

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And we're Baylor we're supposed to be a big dog in this conference, we can win in Hilton we should win in Kansas City.

boognish_bear said:

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Makes sense for a team that doesn't play good defense. If the shots aren't dropping call 911.

Love has shot 48% from 3 in 24 games this season. We need him back badly.

I'm a giant proponent of taking and making threes. And there's a good case this number argues, "Keep shooting to beat variance," but this group has not shown it can win when it shoots poorly.

— Kendall (@kendallkaut) March 16, 2024

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Look the problem with that stat is it assumes our shooting is deterministic of the rest of the game. In reality it's the other way around we shoot like crap in losses because teams manipulate our guys into taking garbage shots and our guys refuse to adjust.

We saw it last night in the huddle Drew sat there and talked about what awful shots we were taking. Guess what happened, the shot selection never improved.


I'm frustrated with our defense this year Drew needs to fix his staff and get back to teaching defense, but it's hard to put the offensive problems on him. Quite frankly these guys don't listen or just have poor in game IQ.

Sometimes we out talent the other team and it works occasionally someone gets hot and we win. But it's hard to see us beating a well disciplined team that can 1) make outside shots and 2) bait us into lazy offense. Our guys really bite on that second one and I'm not sure how you fix that outside of different players. Langston will help with that issue but even he can't overcome Walter Nunn and Dennis playing horrible all at the same time.

ALLBEAR said:

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We have first round exit written all over us. Some mid major program is going to shoot lights out on us.

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Are you a betting man?

dstaylor57 said:

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Last night proved there are only two consistently good teams in the Big 12 right now. The rest depend on hot shooting to make it to the sweet 16.

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And they happen to be the two best defensive teams in the country.

We need to get back to playing defense so we're not so dependent on shot-making.

IvanBear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Makes sense for a team that doesn't play good defense. If the shots aren't dropping call 911.

Love has shot 48% from 3 in 24 games this season. We need him back badly.

I'm a giant proponent of taking and making threes. And there's a good case this number argues, "Keep shooting to beat variance," but this group has not shown it can win when it shoots poorly.

— Kendall (@kendallkaut) March 16, 2024

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Look the problem with that stat is it assumes our shooting is deterministic of the rest of the game. In reality it's the other way around we shoot like crap in losses because teams manipulate our guys into taking garbage shots and our guys refuse to adjust.

We saw it last night in the huddle Drew sat there and talked about what awful shots we were taking. Guess what happened, the shot selection never improved.


I'm frustrated with our defense this year Drew needs to fix his staff and get back to teaching defense, but it's hard to put the offensive problems on him. Quite frankly these guys don't listen or just have poor in game IQ.

Sometimes we out talent the other team and it works occasionally someone gets hot and we win. But it's hard to see us beating a well disciplined team that can 1) make outside shots and 2) bait us into lazy offense. Our guys really bite on that second one and I'm not sure how you fix that outside of different players. Langston will help with that issue but even he can't overcome Walter Nunn and Dennis playing horrible all at the same time.

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We missed a ton of wide-open 3s the last two nights. We didn't start show because we were taking bad shots. We missed shots you have to make to start fast.

But when you're 0 for 6 or 1 for 8 from 3, coaches are going to call all 3s bad shots.

Last night was really ugly. I have no clue how we will do in the NCAA tournament.

For the record, we are 1-6 vs. Iowa State in the Big 12 tournament, with our only win coming in 2001 when they won the conference. All of those games have been in KC where Iowa St. is tough. Apparently they are harder to beat in KC than in Ames.

They tried to start fast and went 0-3 on consecutive 3's.

Maybe elite 8 if we shoot well. Been frustrated these last few years with losing in the round of 32.

Mitch Henessey said:

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I simply don't care about it that much.

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Drew's first statement in the post-game presser indicated that he felt the same. He followed that with a statement about hoping to win it, but that's never seemed to be a genuine goal.

It would be nice to win the tournament once.

dstaylor57 said:

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Last night proved there are only two consistently good teams in the Big 12 right now. The rest depend on hot shooting to make it to the sweet 16.

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Which is why I don't understand the unquestioned best conference spiel. Ku and then Bu breaking out led to this narrative. Both aren't all that good this year. A tough but unspectacular Iowa St team was in contention on the last game of the year. I'm doubting the narrative even with the metrics.

Quinton said:

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dstaylor57 said:

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Last night proved there are only two consistently good teams in the Big 12 right now. The rest depend on hot shooting to make it to the sweet 16.

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Which is why I don't understand the unquestioned best conference spiel. Ku and then Bu breaking out led to this narrative. Both aren't all that good this year. A tough but unspectacular Iowa St team was in contention on the last game of the year. I'm doubting the narrative even with the metrics.

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Big Agree, we're unquestionably in a down year for the conference, I'd argue it's a down year for CBB as a whole but the heavy weights in our conference aren't living up to the billing. Self and Drew whiffed this year on their rosters and they paid dearly for it.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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ALLBEAR said:

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We have first round exit written all over us. Some mid major program is going to shoot lights out on us.

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Are you a betting man?

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Without defense we don't get past 32

Mitch Henessey said:

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TeamPlayer said:

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Last night was really ugly. I have no clue how we will do in the NCAA tournament.

For the record, we are 1-6 vs. Iowa State in the Big 12 tournament, with our only win coming in 2001 when they won the conference. All of those games have been in KC where Iowa St. is tough. Apparently they are harder to beat in KC than in Ames.

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And in all those years they've beaten us in KC, they've never advanced beyond the Sweet 16. Meanwhile, we have 3 Elite 8s, 1 Final Four, and a Natty.

It's fine to care about the Big 12 tourney, but I'd rather see us have success in the tournament that actually matters. They're obviously not mutually exclusive, but every year we don't win the Big 12 tourney, we have handwringing about it. I simply don't care about it that much.

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I've been consistent in my opinion that conference tournaments only matter if you're on the bubble. So I generally agree with you. But I do wish we had played a better game last night.

I don't think it's a particularly good thing to enter the NCAA tournament off three games in which you've played exactly one good half of basketball.

I'm a believer in momentum, and I'm not crazy about the mojo we're taking into the tournament. Our 2021 team overcame some moderate disappointment to finish that regular season/conference tourney, but that team was way better and more mature than this one. I don't know what it is about this group, but it just always seem to be teetering on the brink of disaster.

When it's good, it's really good. When it's bad, it's dreadful.

Quinton said:

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dstaylor57 said:

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Last night proved there are only two consistently good teams in the Big 12 right now. The rest depend on hot shooting to make it to the sweet 16.

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Which is why I don't understand the unquestioned best conference spiel. Ku and then Bu breaking out led to this narrative. Both aren't all that good this year. A tough but unspectacular Iowa St team was in contention on the last game of the year. I'm doubting the narrative even with the metrics.

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The Big 12's strength is in its depth of good teams, not its volume of great ones. What makes the Big 12 tough is that there are only two bad teams on an 18-game schedule. No other league can claim that.

But Houston and maybe Iowa State are the only teams with Elite Eight/Final Four potential IMO.

IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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dstaylor57 said:

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Last night proved there are only two consistently good teams in the Big 12 right now. The rest depend on hot shooting to make it to the sweet 16.

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Which is why I don't understand the unquestioned best conference spiel. Ku and then Bu breaking out led to this narrative. Both aren't all that good this year. A tough but unspectacular Iowa St team was in contention on the last game of the year. I'm doubting the narrative even with the metrics.

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Big Agree, we're unquestionably in a down year for the conference, I'd argue it's a down year for CBB as a whole but the heavy weights in our conference aren't living up to the billing. Self and Drew whiffed this year on their rosters and they paid dearly for it.

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Houston has been ranked No. 1 all year by the advanced metrics and is playing as well as anyone in the country heading into the tournament. I would say they've more than lived up to their billing.

bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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dstaylor57 said:

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Last night proved there are only two consistently good teams in the Big 12 right now. The rest depend on hot shooting to make it to the sweet 16.

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Which is why I don't understand the unquestioned best conference spiel. Ku and then Bu breaking out led to this narrative. Both aren't all that good this year. A tough but unspectacular Iowa St team was in contention on the last game of the year. I'm doubting the narrative even with the metrics.

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Big Agree, we're unquestionably in a down year for the conference, I'd argue it's a down year for CBB as a whole but the heavy weights in our conference aren't living up to the billing. Self and Drew whiffed this year on their rosters and they paid dearly for it.

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Houston has been ranked No. 1 all year by the advanced metrics and is playing as well as anyone in the country heading into the tournament. I would say they've more than lived up to their billing.

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Houston got not surprisingly stomped tonight, and it's going to happen to them in the tourney as well. You just can't be as dreadful at offense as they are and expect to win. Give them credit for what they are savvy at defense and smart, but not all that talented.

Much depends on the bracket. The team should be ready for the tournament.