Right....start the excuse making. Interested in facts? Read further.

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

If you don't like the poor shooting and poor technique, you don't like Scott Drew basketball.

ZachTay said:

---

Right....start the excuse making. Interested in facts? Read further.

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

---

So stats are excuses and your opinion is facts.

Ok. Sure.

JP1037 said:

---

ZachTay said:

---

Right....start the excuse making. Interested in facts? Read further.

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

---

So stats are excuses and your opinion is facts.

Ok. Sure.

---

I'm sorry that you're the kind of fan who uses game-to-game stats and whose emotions and excuse swing game to game. I get that. But realty is.....these were core program weakness(es) coming and seen a long time ago.

ZachTay said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

ZachTay said:

---

Right....start the excuse making. Interested in facts? Read further.

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

---

So stats are excuses and your opinion is facts.

Ok. Sure.

---

I'm sorry that you're the kind of fan who uses game-to-game stats and whose emotions and excuse swing game to game. I get that. But realty is.....these were core program weakness(es) coming and seen a long time ago.

---

I'm the one with an emotion issue? Lol.

Can you name a worse shooting performance?

4 of 5 starters for Clemson were seniors. We started two freshmen. I'm not a big fan of one and dones, but it is what it is at this point.

ZachTay said:

---

Right....start the excuse making. Interested in facts? Read further.

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

---

O, I guess we should never recruit 5-star guys again.

rileyroo said:

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4 of 5 starters for Clemson were seniors. We started two freshmen. I'm not a big fan of one and dones, but it is what it is at this point.

---

That plays into that but our Basketball IQ is very weak. These 1 and done play a lot of games but very little practice/knowledge - and by this time of the season - there isn't an excuse to make some of the mistakes we did on the floor tonight. We lost to a very bad Clemson team.

It's even more perplexing when we have as many coaches on the bench as players....

WA Jim said:

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chorne68 said:

---

ZachTay said:

---

Right....start the excuse making. Interested in facts? Read further.

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

---

O, I guess we should never recruit 5-star guys again.

---

Right - I don't think we should

---

I second that emotion.

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

rileyroo said:

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4 of 5 starters for Clemson were seniors. We started two freshmen. I'm not a big fan of one and dones, but it is what it is at this point.

---

And their "experienced Post" fouled our 80% free throw shooting guard in the backcourt with only a 2 point lead late in the game fouling out in the process. They won in spite of themselves.

BUCANDOIT82 said:

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rileyroo said:

---

4 of 5 starters for Clemson were seniors. We started two freshmen. I'm not a big fan of one and dones, but it is what it is at this point.

---

And their "experienced Post" fouled our 80% free throw shooting guard in the backcourt with only a 2 point lead late in the game fouling out in the process. They won in spite of themselves.

---

They won because they outplayed us for 35 of the game's 40 minutes. You're a bucket of excuses arguing an unwinnable case.

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

Porteroso said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

---

An apologist? I don't think many here would agree at all with that characterization.

That would only win us the game if we were knocking down 3s. And in that event, Clemson would have had to rethink that strategy and make an adjustment.

But in taking away points in the paint, Clemson forced a Baylor team that is already overly reliant on the 3-point shot to be even more so. And our inability to knock them down allowed them to build a second-half lead that proved in the end to be insurmountable.

Does Baylor ever just "lose" a game?
I mean, does the other team ever out-play and out-hustle our Bears, or is it always someone else's fault?
Asking for a friend.

Porteroso said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

---

One consistent in basketball for the last 100 years. If you miss shots you lose. We lost from 3 point line, from shots inside the 3 point line and from free throws. Not sure how you blame this on Drew. Our talented team simply failed to make open shots. Our defense was not the problem.

bear2be2 said:

---

BUCANDOIT82 said:

---

rileyroo said:

---

4 of 5 starters for Clemson were seniors. We started two freshmen. I'm not a big fan of one and dones, but it is what it is at this point.

---

And their "experienced Post" fouled our 80% free throw shooting guard in the backcourt with only a 2 point lead late in the game fouling out in the process. They won in spite of themselves.

---

They won because they outplayed us for 35 of the game's 40 minutes. You're a bucket of excuses arguing an unwinnable case.

---

That right there. You can't expect to win when you only show up for less than 25% of the game AND at the very end. Disappointing

JP1037 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

---

One consistent in basketball for the last 100 years. If you miss shots you lose. We lost from 3 point line, from shots inside the 3 point line and from free throws. Not sure how you blame this on Drew. Our talented team simply failed to make open shots. Our defense was not the problem.

---

When, in your postmortem of every loss, you're citing the same weaknesses, you're not talking exclusively about an execution or player problem.

And our defense was a problem in the first half, when Clemson was getting the looks they wanted on virtually every possession and our stops only came on occasions they missed makeable shots. We were much better on that end of the floor in the second half -- because the guards finally played with the intensity they should have been playing with from the start and Josh O got the lion's share of the minutes at the five.

This team, like last year's, was talented but deeply flawed. And when we lost, it was almost always for the same reasons. We dug ourselves a big first-half whole with a combination of poor outside shooting and a lack of defensive intensity, had too many or untimely turnovers, failed to take advantage of available opportunities to seize momentum (be it closing a deficit or growing a lead) and missed free throws in the clutch.

Shooting comes and goes, but those other weaknesses are all things you would hope would improve over the course of a 30-plus game season. Ours never did. We've been the same frustrating team since mid-January.

Serious question what do you propose? Do you think Drew needs to make some staff changes or some other solution?

PartyBear said:

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Serious question what do you propose? Do you think Drew needs to make some staff changes or some other solution?

---

I'm not sure who this is directed to, but I think we need a "defensive coordinator" on our staff who is trusted to run the defense while Drew handles the offense. Outside of the three-year stretch from 2020-22, when we had four or five of our best individual defenders in our program's history, we have been pretty lousy at man defense for the entirety of Scott Drew's tenure. He's a great offensive coach and a good teacher of the zone, but we need someone with a defensive background to come in and overhaul our man defensive scheme and implementation.

I also think we need to stop recruiting one-and-dones and get back to developing players. Most elite freshman recruits are good players and good kids, but almost none of them are ready to lead a championship team, and the commitment you have to make to them to get them on campus (both in playing time and usage) almost guarantees they'll be in roles they can't adequately handle.

I want juniors and seniors in my starting lineup and freshman and sophomores playing support roles. Almost all of the best teams are building their teams this way.

Pecos 45 said:

---

Does Baylor ever just "lose" a game?
I mean, does the other team ever out-play and out-hustle our Bears, or is it always someone else's fault?
Asking for a friend.

---

Sure - but It depends. Last year's football team for example "just lost" a lot of games and after Texas State you could see most of the rest of the losses coming from a mile away.

My take on the game is that it was similar to all of our contested games. We fell behind. Why? Were we not ready to play? Are we too young? I don't know, but we fell behind. Then, the game plan (or RayJ) was good enough to get us back in the game. However, all of the shooting was bad, and the FREE THROW shooting was the difference in the game.

It was our 2nd worst shooting performance of the entire season (Kansas St). Reference: 2023-24 Baylor Bears Men 's Gamelogs | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

We also finished the year with 4 of our worst shooting performances in the last 5 games. Why did we have our worst shooting at the end of the season? Is it because defenses adjusted? Is it because our freshman are fatigued and one of our veterans is injured? I don't know, but I bet Colgate is wondering why they couldn't get the Baylor team that can't shoot.

Drew is a great coach, but he is not without blame. He is the one responsible for the construction of the roster.

JP1037 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

---

One consistent in basketball for the last 100 years. If you miss shots you lose. We lost from 3 point line, from shots inside the 3 point line and from free throws. Not sure how you blame this on Drew. Our talented team simply failed to make open shots. Our defense was not the problem.

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

Drew is a great coach, but he is not without blame. He is the one responsible for the construction of the roster.

JP1037 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

---

One consistent in basketball for the last 100 years. If you miss shots you lose. We lost from 3 point line, from shots inside the 3 point line and from free throws. Not sure how you blame this on Drew. Our talented team simply failed to make open shots. Our defense was not the problem.

---

---

I agree. I said in December this is a good, not great team. Takes a great team (or a very lucky team) to make the final 4. I think last night we were very unlucky but this team was never going to win it all. I expected to make the Sweet 16 but that was it, we were a couple of free throws and one open 3 pointer from accomplishing that.

Our expectations are out of whack if we think we can be a Final 4 team every year. I think we made one NCAA tournament once in 30 years before Drew.

JP1037 said:

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

Drew is a great coach, but he is not without blame. He is the one responsible for the construction of the roster.

JP1037 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Don't recall a worse shooting effort.

25% from 3
38.9% overall shooting
61.5% from free throw line. Actually worse if you consider we missed three first shot one and ones.

Some moron announcers will praise the Clemson defense. Ridiculous if they do. We missed wide open 3 after wide open 3 and I'm pretty sure they didn't defend the free throw line. It wasn't defense. It was self inflicted horrible shooting.

---

I will give Clemson credit for taking away the paint and forcing us to be a 3-point shooting team tonight. Until our late run, we had a hell of a time getting "easy" offense inside the 3-point line.

---

Shouldn't that win us the game? Them giving us the open 3s? You seem to be an apologist. Good teams and coaches never have just the 1 way of winning. They don't win many if the can't find alternatives.

---

One consistent in basketball for the last 100 years. If you miss shots you lose. We lost from 3 point line, from shots inside the 3 point line and from free throws. Not sure how you blame this on Drew. Our talented team simply failed to make open shots. Our defense was not the problem.

---

---

I agree. I said in December this is a good, not great team. Takes a great team (or a very lucky team) to make the final 4. I think last night we were very unlucky but this team was never going to win it all. I expected to make the Sweet 16 but that was it, we were a couple of free throws and one open 3 pointer from accomplishing that.

Our expectations are out of whack if we think we can be a Final 4 team every year. I think we made one NCAA tournament once in 30 years before Drew.

---

I don't know of anyone here who thinks we should be in the Final Four -- or even have a Final Four ceiling -- every year. But given the way our program is talked about (especially internally), the talent we're bringing in and the seeds we've been getting on Selection Sunday, three trips past the first weekend in 10 years is at least moderate underachievement.

Fortunately, we have a national championship in that stretch that makes up for all of our tournament disappointments. But at some point, we've got to get back to making tournament runs. Because the programs our fans have been turning their noses up at (like Houston and Gonzaga) do it literally every year.