Not Happy (at all) to Post This

4,445 Views | 32 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by Yogi
ZachTay
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All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em
OregonBear
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Well said and oh so true. One and doners just do not win championships.
Easy Money
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One n done and can't shoot free throws .. take a hike
Daveisabovereproach
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Those five star recruits that only stay for one year bring in donations and attention for a university that desperately needs some positive sports momentum. Scott is a good coach, but he's a better marketing tool. He's going nowhere
Big12Fan2024
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ZachTay said:

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

Never seems like a strong word to use particularly since he won a National Championship with 3 starting 1 and Done players in 2011-12 including the MVP of the NCAA Tournament. Maybe he meant in the past few years?
ZachTay
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No Quarterback said:

Those five star recruits that only stay for one year bring in donations and attention for a university that desperately needs some positive sports momentum. Scott is a good coach, but he's a better marketing tool. He's going nowhere
"a university that desperately needs some positive sports momentum" ??

NO ONE in the basketball media/world, or the country, relats Baylor's basketball to any other program at Baylor. It stands on its own.

Now for you donation comment....absolutely yes. College athletics at Baylor under Rhoades is all about donations and the P&L. That, we agree.
ZachTay
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Big12Fan2024 said:

ZachTay said:

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em

Never seems like a strong word to use particularly since he won a National Championship with 3 starting 1 and Done players in 2011-12 including the MVP of the NCAA Tournament. Maybe he meant in the past few years?
NONE of the starters on the natty team were freshman. But thank you for the effort to join the conversation.
Big12Fan2024
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Don't be an idiot. Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague and Michael Kid-Gilchrist were all freshmen. It's fairly obvious now that you are just a troll trying to get people to argue with you.
ZachTay
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Big12Fan2024 said:

Don't be an idiot. Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague and Michael Kid-Gilchrist were all freshmen. It's fairly obvious now that you are just a troll trying to get people to argue with you.
And there you go. Jump to the "troll" accusation simply because another fan is passionate about their assessment.

Be better....
Big12Fan2024
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You know you were wrong after the truth was pointed out, so now you try to deflect = TROLL.
ZachTay
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Big12Fan2024 said:

You know you were wrong after the truth was pointed out, so now you try to deflect = TROLL.
What was your "truth" ?
Big12Fan2024
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You said "never" and I quickly point out to you that Calipari did win a National Championship with 3 one and done players. I cited the players. You were wrong. Simply take the L and move on. I'm sure there are some other threads your trolling may work. Just don't try trolling by throwing out statements that can be quickly proven false. Create some exaggerations that don't involve fact. That way you can do a better job and no one can point out your mistakes as well as what your actual intent is.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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Big12Fan2024 said:

You said "never" and I quickly point out to you that Calipari did win a National Championship with 3 one and done players. I cited the players. You were wrong. Simply take the L and move on. I'm sure there are some other threads your trolling may work. Just don't try trolling by throwing out statements that can be quickly proven false. Create some exaggerations that don't involve fact. That way you can do a better job and no one can point out your mistakes as well as what your actual intent is.


He won a national championship, made it to another, made it to a final four, made it to several sweet 16s, all with one and dones. He's also gotten upset several times. People here who think the only way to win is one particular way don't know basketball.
IvanBear
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Here's the thing, Drew isn't Cal. He's evolved over his career, at this point I trust him to keep doing so.

After the natty we had a team that tried to patch the holes we lost, did it imperfectly but then got bit by the injury bug. Sochan was an amazing talent. It sucks for us he went pro, that along with, the Covid eligibility and patching attempt to run it back created gaps in player development.


We got Flagler bridges and love and now Josh O but they're really the only guys we've had that are normal development guys for drew. Lohner being absolute garbage is another massive hit for us. How much better would we have been if Lohner was a good player.

Instead Drew's been in basically a year over year patch job landing 1 and Dones that are furthering the problem and having to bring in heavily flawed but decent one year point guards like akinjo and Dennis.

That's not a recipe for success and honestly the teams have over performed the awful roster construction. On top of that his long time friend and coach in Tang left and he's had to adjust his staff.

I'd argue the staff moves haven't worked. It's time to encourage whoever is in charge of defense (Brooks?) to move on to a low level HC job. Jakus appears to likely be getting a HC job too. Seems like Drew will have to remix the staff, let's hope he brings in a good hard nosed defensive teacher.

I don't know how to fix roster construction it's a problem for the sport as a whole right now and will remain one until NIL and the portal are regulated. I would like to think Miro little is another step in the right direction (but I doubt he's ready next year). Making good portal acquisitions of guys who stick around like bridges, Flagler, butler, and Mitchell is a must.

Drew isn't in a rut like Cal, but he's got to figure out how to keep evolving and find guys he can convince he can develop in this day and age. I really hope he gets away from the one and done trap. Jay Weight absolutely went off on it in regards to Kentucky after their loss to Oakland and the same applies to us the last two years. Teenagers are not good college basketballs players they be good NBA players but five stars won't beat age plus talent.


Drew has my full confidence to figure this out and get back to a final four. He keeps putting together enough talent but he's got to find guys with better basketball IQ. These last two years the teams seem really bad at that aspect, let's hope he brings in some guards who will stick around.


(Don't get me wrong though I love guys like sochan that turn out to be so good they have to go pro that's a good problem to have. The problem is the George, Brown, and Walter's of the world who are expected to be team leaders and they can't be.)
CizzLark
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ZachTay said:

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em


Chill, bruh. Let Coach Drew cook.

BluesBear
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We must have a floor leader - and it can't be a 1 and done. We are a very low IQ basketball team and it showed especially with the shot selection towards the end of the game.

To me, beyond the missed free-throws here are some other pivotal mistakes this evening...

- Failure to guard the final 3.6 seconds of the First Half. We had a defender running right near their player only to sprint forward to cover the lane? Understand how much time is left on the clock...

- Bridges had 4 field goal attempts...

- Twice Drew should have called TO to make adjustments when PJ went to the bench to counter with a better 5 on the court.

- We are not a deep team. Guys like Lohner just shouldn't get that many minutes. We need to Thank these fella's for their service but we can find better off the bench guys.

- Two critical called Fouls @ the 7 minute mark that led to a 4 point swing. Drew needs to be more active in the criticism of the officiating.

- We need some guys to step up with a little more grit at certain times in the game when you just need to send a message.

For a conference so deep and challenging - I just don't see the value in hosting a Big12 Tournament. You want to do that - - do it mid season. Assign the winner of the Regular season conference as the Auto bid.

If you ran a week long tournament (say in Dallas) where each team guaranteed two games or more - you'd have quite a turnout if run midseason. Give ALL your teams a week off prior to the start of March Madness.
IvanBear
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BluesBear said:

We must have a floor leader - and it can't be a 1 and done. We are a very low IQ basketball team and it showed especially with the shot selection towards the end of the game.

To me, beyond the missed free-throws here are some other pivotal mistakes this evening...

- Failure to guard the final 3.6 seconds of the First Half. We had a defender running right near their player only to sprint forward to cover the lane? Understand how much time is left on the clock...

- Bridges had 4 field goal attempts...

- Twice Drew should have called TO to make adjustments when PJ went to the bench to counter with a better 5 on the court.

- We are not a deep team. Guys like Lohner just shouldn't get that many minutes. We need to Thank these fella's for their service but we can find better off the bench guys.

- Two critical called Fouls @ the 7 minute mark that led to a 4 point swing. Drew needs to be more active in the criticism of the officiating.

- We need some guys to step up with a little more grit at certain times in the game when you just need to send a message.

For a conference so deep and challenging - I just don't see the value in hosting a Big12 Tournament. You want to do that - - do it mid season. Assign the winner of the Regular season conference as the Auto bid.

If you ran a week long tournament (say in Dallas) where each team guaranteed two games or more - you'd have quite a turnout if run midseason. Give ALL your teams a week off prior to the start of March Madness.



Agreed but I would add no single year transfer point guards either. There's no leadership in that.

Also at the end of the day Bridges is who he is, a talented but lazy head case. It's just sad he couldn't be a leader couldn't be consistent and couldn't take ownership of his game.
BluesBear
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Agree with both - - - I didn't like the move - Little isn't that bad...

Hopefully the 1 year transfer thing for Football doesn't kill us as well..
Bleed Green
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A team that shot 80% from the FT line for the year missed 10 FT's and the OP thinks he knows ball... definition of idiot. Probably a media guy who Drew blew off.

I would love to see us have more multi year kids, but with the portal like it is, that is not a done deal even if you stay away from the 1 and dones. Also, if you asked every college coach if they would want Keyonte or Jakobi on their team even knowing they will only be there a year, 95% would say yes. Of the 5% that would say no, 0% of them have won a natty. Probably less than 10% have been to a sweet 16.

My opinion of our biggest weakness this year was at the PG position. RayJ is a quality player and carried in moments. But I believe his desire for the lob pass hurt. Ally oops are fun to watch and can occasionally provide a boost, but frequently when he was throwing a lob pass (many that didn't get ooped) there were guys wide open on the 3 pt line. i think he had 9 games with 5 or less assists, 4 games with more TOs than assists, and one of the worst Asst/TO ratios of the top 30 PGs. He is great to have on the team, not a bad player, but I don't like him as my primary PG.

Missi bought into the hype. He is still young and has a lot to learn. I will stand by my comments on another thread that he shouldn't go pro yet and shouldn't be a lottery pick. He has tons of potential, but tons of growth needed.

Jakobi is an incredible talent. I think his biggest growth will be emotionally. He seems to get in funks and have trouble getting out of them. I think he will be a G leaguer who takes a year or two to grow.

Love was greatly missed down the stretch. I hope that kid gets healthy because i think he could be a very good player.

Bridges had a great year that I think could have been better with better guard play.

Nunn came around from what I thought was a slow start but then disappeared vs Clemson.

Fun group of guys who obviously loved each other but I don't think it was the right balance everywhere. I know they had the talent to get to the final 4 but rarely during the year did I feel like they would put it together enough. Should have been in the sweet 16 but they pressed on FT's and killed their chances.
IvanBear
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Bleed Green said:

A team that shot 80% from the FT line for the year missed 10 FT's and the OP thinks he knows ball... definition of idiot. Probably a media guy who Drew blew off.

I would love to see us have more multi year kids, but with the portal like it is, that is not a done deal even if you stay away from the 1 and dones. Also, if you asked every college coach if they would want Keyonte or Jakobi on their team even knowing they will only be there a year, 95% would say yes. Of the 5% that would say no, 0% of them have won a natty. Probably less than 10% have been to a sweet 16.

My opinion of our biggest weakness this year was at the PG position. RayJ is a quality player and carried in moments. But I believe his desire for the lob pass hurt. Ally oops are fun to watch and can occasionally provide a boost, but frequently when he was throwing a lob pass (many that didn't get ooped) there were guys wide open on the 3 pt line. i think he had 9 games with 5 or less assists, 4 games with more TOs than assists, and one of the worst Asst/TO ratios of the top 30 PGs. He is great to have on the team, not a bad player, but I don't like him as my primary PG.

Missi bought into the hype. He is still young and has a lot to learn. I will stand by my comments on another thread that he shouldn't go pro yet and shouldn't be a lottery pick. He has tons of potential, but tons of growth needed.

Jakobi is an incredible talent. I think his biggest growth will be emotionally. He seems to get in funks and have trouble getting out of them. I think he will be a G leaguer who takes a year or two to grow.

Love was greatly missed down the stretch. I hope that kid gets healthy because i think he could be a very good player.

Bridges had a great year that I think could have been better with better guard play.

Nunn came around from what I thought was a slow start but then disappeared vs Clemson.

Fun group of guys who obviously loved each other but I don't think it was the right balance everywhere. I know they had the talent to get to the final 4 but rarely during the year did I feel like they would put it together enough. Should have been in the sweet 16 but they pressed on FT's and killed their chances.

What kills me about Missi is while I agree if he came back he would have a chance to move into the lottery quite frankly unless he's going to come back and develop an outside shot, he's really only got a much larger chance at hurting his draft stock. He's being projected where he is because sky is the limit not because of how he plays right now. The more of his draft evaluation moves to current ability vs projection the worse the more potential he has to slide into the second round.

I completely agree with Dennis, great guy love to have him in the program, but we saw the limits of his game this year, he's no question a power 5 player, but I thought his 3rd team big 12 rating was stretch to be honest, he had so many horrible turnovers. He would have been a wonderful Macio Teague (don't get me wrong his game doesn't hold a candle to Teague), but if he had been the 3rd guard who could shoot and distribute he would have been in a lot better position as a player. I also think he had trouble early adjusting from being the best guy on the court every night for both teams like he was last year, to being no where close to that in the big 12.

I would challenge a bit on Nunn as to when he disappeared. He really came on early on after Langston Love went down, but then faded back to obscurity before the end of conference play. By the time the Texas tech game rolled around he regressed to the same bad player he was at the beginning of the year. His development arc this season was really bad.

I also agree on Jakobe, a lot like Missi he would be a lot better player if he came back for a year, he's going to get better development in college than in the G league, the problem is that will likely destroy his draft stock, because again any talent evaluation is based on his AAU and High school career, anyone projecting him as a lottery pick based on his college performance is a bad evaluator of talent. If he puts another year of tape out like this one, the mask will be off and he would slide out of the first round if not the draft.

BaylorFan1234321
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IvanBear said:

Bleed Green said:

A team that shot 80% from the FT line for the year missed 10 FT's and the OP thinks he knows ball... definition of idiot. Probably a media guy who Drew blew off.

I would love to see us have more multi year kids, but with the portal like it is, that is not a done deal even if you stay away from the 1 and dones. Also, if you asked every college coach if they would want Keyonte or Jakobi on their team even knowing they will only be there a year, 95% would say yes. Of the 5% that would say no, 0% of them have won a natty. Probably less than 10% have been to a sweet 16.

My opinion of our biggest weakness this year was at the PG position. RayJ is a quality player and carried in moments. But I believe his desire for the lob pass hurt. Ally oops are fun to watch and can occasionally provide a boost, but frequently when he was throwing a lob pass (many that didn't get ooped) there were guys wide open on the 3 pt line. i think he had 9 games with 5 or less assists, 4 games with more TOs than assists, and one of the worst Asst/TO ratios of the top 30 PGs. He is great to have on the team, not a bad player, but I don't like him as my primary PG.

Missi bought into the hype. He is still young and has a lot to learn. I will stand by my comments on another thread that he shouldn't go pro yet and shouldn't be a lottery pick. He has tons of potential, but tons of growth needed.

Jakobi is an incredible talent. I think his biggest growth will be emotionally. He seems to get in funks and have trouble getting out of them. I think he will be a G leaguer who takes a year or two to grow.

Love was greatly missed down the stretch. I hope that kid gets healthy because i think he could be a very good player.

Bridges had a great year that I think could have been better with better guard play.

Nunn came around from what I thought was a slow start but then disappeared vs Clemson.

Fun group of guys who obviously loved each other but I don't think it was the right balance everywhere. I know they had the talent to get to the final 4 but rarely during the year did I feel like they would put it together enough. Should have been in the sweet 16 but they pressed on FT's and killed their chances.

What kills me about Missi is while I agree if he came back he would have a chance to move into the lottery quite frankly unless he's going to come back and develop an outside shot, he's really only got a much larger chance at hurting his draft stock. He's being projected where he is because sky is the limit not because of how he plays right now. The more of his draft evaluation moves to current ability vs projection the worse the more potential he has to slide into the second round.

I completely agree with Dennis, great guy love to have him in the program, but we saw the limits of his game this year, he's no question a power 5 player, but I thought his 3rd team big 12 rating was stretch to be honest, he had so many horrible turnovers. He would have been a wonderful Macio Teague (don't get me wrong his game doesn't hold a candle to Teague), but if he had been the 3rd guard who could shoot and distribute he would have been in a lot better position as a player. I also think he had trouble early adjusting from being the best guy on the court every night for both teams like he was last year, to being no where close to that in the big 12.

I would challenge a bit on Nunn as to when he disappeared. He really came on early on after Langston Love went down, but then faded back to obscurity before the end of conference play. By the time the Texas tech game rolled around he regressed to the same bad player he was at the beginning of the year. His development arc this season was really bad.

I also agree on Jakobe, a lot like Missi he would be a lot better player if he came back for a year, he's going to get better development in college than in the G league, the problem is that will likely destroy his draft stock, because again any talent evaluation is based on his AAU and High school career, anyone projecting him as a lottery pick based on his college performance is a bad evaluator of talent. If he puts another year of tape out like this one, the mask will be off and he would slide out of the first round if not the draft.


Saying Jakobe will fall out of the first round if he stayed another is probably the worst take I've heard on here today, and I've seen some pretty bad ones. He is going to be exactly like Keyonte and flourish in the NBA because as we saw with Keyonte, not everyone's game translates to college - due to playing out of position along with many other factors. If you'd like to bet, I'd bet right now that Jakobe will be a 12+ ppg scorer by his second year in the NBA.
bear2be2
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BaylorFan1234321 said:

IvanBear said:

Bleed Green said:

A team that shot 80% from the FT line for the year missed 10 FT's and the OP thinks he knows ball... definition of idiot. Probably a media guy who Drew blew off.

I would love to see us have more multi year kids, but with the portal like it is, that is not a done deal even if you stay away from the 1 and dones. Also, if you asked every college coach if they would want Keyonte or Jakobi on their team even knowing they will only be there a year, 95% would say yes. Of the 5% that would say no, 0% of them have won a natty. Probably less than 10% have been to a sweet 16.

My opinion of our biggest weakness this year was at the PG position. RayJ is a quality player and carried in moments. But I believe his desire for the lob pass hurt. Ally oops are fun to watch and can occasionally provide a boost, but frequently when he was throwing a lob pass (many that didn't get ooped) there were guys wide open on the 3 pt line. i think he had 9 games with 5 or less assists, 4 games with more TOs than assists, and one of the worst Asst/TO ratios of the top 30 PGs. He is great to have on the team, not a bad player, but I don't like him as my primary PG.

Missi bought into the hype. He is still young and has a lot to learn. I will stand by my comments on another thread that he shouldn't go pro yet and shouldn't be a lottery pick. He has tons of potential, but tons of growth needed.

Jakobi is an incredible talent. I think his biggest growth will be emotionally. He seems to get in funks and have trouble getting out of them. I think he will be a G leaguer who takes a year or two to grow.

Love was greatly missed down the stretch. I hope that kid gets healthy because i think he could be a very good player.

Bridges had a great year that I think could have been better with better guard play.

Nunn came around from what I thought was a slow start but then disappeared vs Clemson.

Fun group of guys who obviously loved each other but I don't think it was the right balance everywhere. I know they had the talent to get to the final 4 but rarely during the year did I feel like they would put it together enough. Should have been in the sweet 16 but they pressed on FT's and killed their chances.

What kills me about Missi is while I agree if he came back he would have a chance to move into the lottery quite frankly unless he's going to come back and develop an outside shot, he's really only got a much larger chance at hurting his draft stock. He's being projected where he is because sky is the limit not because of how he plays right now. The more of his draft evaluation moves to current ability vs projection the worse the more potential he has to slide into the second round.

I completely agree with Dennis, great guy love to have him in the program, but we saw the limits of his game this year, he's no question a power 5 player, but I thought his 3rd team big 12 rating was stretch to be honest, he had so many horrible turnovers. He would have been a wonderful Macio Teague (don't get me wrong his game doesn't hold a candle to Teague), but if he had been the 3rd guard who could shoot and distribute he would have been in a lot better position as a player. I also think he had trouble early adjusting from being the best guy on the court every night for both teams like he was last year, to being no where close to that in the big 12.

I would challenge a bit on Nunn as to when he disappeared. He really came on early on after Langston Love went down, but then faded back to obscurity before the end of conference play. By the time the Texas tech game rolled around he regressed to the same bad player he was at the beginning of the year. His development arc this season was really bad.

I also agree on Jakobe, a lot like Missi he would be a lot better player if he came back for a year, he's going to get better development in college than in the G league, the problem is that will likely destroy his draft stock, because again any talent evaluation is based on his AAU and High school career, anyone projecting him as a lottery pick based on his college performance is a bad evaluator of talent. If he puts another year of tape out like this one, the mask will be off and he would slide out of the first round if not the draft.


Saying Jakobe will fall out of the first round if he stayed another is probably the worst take I've heard on here today, and I've seen some pretty bad ones. He is going to be exactly like Keyonte and flourish in the NBA because as we saw with Keyonte, not everyone's game translates to college - due to playing out of position along with many other factors. If you'd like to bet, I'd bet right now that Jakobe will be a 12+ ppg scorer by his second year in the NBA.
He did include the caveat, "if he puts another year of tape out like this one," which is a significant one.

Another year with his shooting percentages may not push him out of the first round, but it would absolutely give teams pause, given that most of his value in the NBA will be as a catch-and-shoot guy.

One inefficient freshman season is easy to excuse. Two such seasons would mark a trend.

I think the expectation, if he were to return (he won't), is that his shooting efficiency would improve fairly dramatically. But if it didn't, he'd risk losing a lot of potential value in the eyes of NBA teams. That's precisely why he won't return. The risk outweighs the reward.
IvanBear
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BaylorFan1234321 said:

IvanBear said:

Bleed Green said:

A team that shot 80% from the FT line for the year missed 10 FT's and the OP thinks he knows ball... definition of idiot. Probably a media guy who Drew blew off.

I would love to see us have more multi year kids, but with the portal like it is, that is not a done deal even if you stay away from the 1 and dones. Also, if you asked every college coach if they would want Keyonte or Jakobi on their team even knowing they will only be there a year, 95% would say yes. Of the 5% that would say no, 0% of them have won a natty. Probably less than 10% have been to a sweet 16.

My opinion of our biggest weakness this year was at the PG position. RayJ is a quality player and carried in moments. But I believe his desire for the lob pass hurt. Ally oops are fun to watch and can occasionally provide a boost, but frequently when he was throwing a lob pass (many that didn't get ooped) there were guys wide open on the 3 pt line. i think he had 9 games with 5 or less assists, 4 games with more TOs than assists, and one of the worst Asst/TO ratios of the top 30 PGs. He is great to have on the team, not a bad player, but I don't like him as my primary PG.

Missi bought into the hype. He is still young and has a lot to learn. I will stand by my comments on another thread that he shouldn't go pro yet and shouldn't be a lottery pick. He has tons of potential, but tons of growth needed.

Jakobi is an incredible talent. I think his biggest growth will be emotionally. He seems to get in funks and have trouble getting out of them. I think he will be a G leaguer who takes a year or two to grow.

Love was greatly missed down the stretch. I hope that kid gets healthy because i think he could be a very good player.

Bridges had a great year that I think could have been better with better guard play.

Nunn came around from what I thought was a slow start but then disappeared vs Clemson.

Fun group of guys who obviously loved each other but I don't think it was the right balance everywhere. I know they had the talent to get to the final 4 but rarely during the year did I feel like they would put it together enough. Should have been in the sweet 16 but they pressed on FT's and killed their chances.

What kills me about Missi is while I agree if he came back he would have a chance to move into the lottery quite frankly unless he's going to come back and develop an outside shot, he's really only got a much larger chance at hurting his draft stock. He's being projected where he is because sky is the limit not because of how he plays right now. The more of his draft evaluation moves to current ability vs projection the worse the more potential he has to slide into the second round.

I completely agree with Dennis, great guy love to have him in the program, but we saw the limits of his game this year, he's no question a power 5 player, but I thought his 3rd team big 12 rating was stretch to be honest, he had so many horrible turnovers. He would have been a wonderful Macio Teague (don't get me wrong his game doesn't hold a candle to Teague), but if he had been the 3rd guard who could shoot and distribute he would have been in a lot better position as a player. I also think he had trouble early adjusting from being the best guy on the court every night for both teams like he was last year, to being no where close to that in the big 12.

I would challenge a bit on Nunn as to when he disappeared. He really came on early on after Langston Love went down, but then faded back to obscurity before the end of conference play. By the time the Texas tech game rolled around he regressed to the same bad player he was at the beginning of the year. His development arc this season was really bad.

I also agree on Jakobe, a lot like Missi he would be a lot better player if he came back for a year, he's going to get better development in college than in the G league, the problem is that will likely destroy his draft stock, because again any talent evaluation is based on his AAU and High school career, anyone projecting him as a lottery pick based on his college performance is a bad evaluator of talent. If he puts another year of tape out like this one, the mask will be off and he would slide out of the first round if not the draft.


Saying Jakobe will fall out of the first round if he stayed another is probably the worst take I've heard on here today, and I've seen some pretty bad ones. He is going to be exactly like Keyonte and flourish in the NBA because as we saw with Keyonte, not everyone's game translates to college - due to playing out of position along with many other factors. If you'd like to bet, I'd bet right now that Jakobe will be a 12+ ppg scorer by his second year in the NBA.

As pointed out, I'm not saying what WILL happen. I'm saying what COULD happen.

NBA assess on potential talent, not current performance. The more tape you put out there of mediocre performance the more the potential talent portion of the assessment falls. That's the risk of coming back to college for these one and dones. It unquestionably hurt Isaiah Austin who was projected a higher pick coming out his freshmen year but for that offseason injury.

I will stand by if he has another 29% from 3 performance in conference play, he wont' be viewed near as favorably as he is right now by NBA scouts.

Also I'm somewhat surprised how much success Key is having at the NBA level, but he's not a signficantly better player, his game looks basically the same in the pros as he was in college. He's a volume shooter shooting about 40% from the field and about 33 percent from 3. He's upped his assists which is a huge improvement.

If Walter comes in and puts up 29% three point shooting he's gonna get banished to the G league for a couple years, he's also got to massively improve his ball handling because it's not very good.

I expect if he came back to Baylor he'd have a significantly better season next year (his hard work should eventually translate to good results). But he won't, because the risk of destroying his currently over inflated draft stock is way too high - anything less than a Conference Player of the Year level performance would likely kill his draft stock.
Team America
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

You said "never" and I quickly point out to you that Calipari did win a National Championship with 3 one and done players. I cited the players. You were wrong. Simply take the L and move on. I'm sure there are some other threads your trolling may work. Just don't try trolling by throwing out statements that can be quickly proven false. Create some exaggerations that don't involve fact. That way you can do a better job and no one can point out your mistakes as well as what your actual intent is.


He won a national championship, made it to another, made it to a final four, made it to several sweet 16s, all with one and dones. He's also gotten upset several times. People here who think the only way to win is one particular way don't know basketball.


As a lifelong Kentucky fan, I am in the Cal needs to go camp. That obviously is not happening this offseason. While he did have a great run his first few years with the freshman, the game and environment has changed. With NIL and the transfer portal, you are not going to win a championship with a bunch of freshmen.

In my opinion, high school recruiting is becoming almost obsolete outside of the top 10-15 kids. Why waste a bunch of time on a fringe guy who may end up transferring, when you can go get a proven guy in the portal for a year or two.
bear2be2
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

You said "never" and I quickly point out to you that Calipari did win a National Championship with 3 one and done players. I cited the players. You were wrong. Simply take the L and move on. I'm sure there are some other threads your trolling may work. Just don't try trolling by throwing out statements that can be quickly proven false. Create some exaggerations that don't involve fact. That way you can do a better job and no one can point out your mistakes as well as what your actual intent is.


He won a national championship, made it to another, made it to a final four, made it to several sweet 16s, all with one and dones. He's also gotten upset several times. People here who think the only way to win is one particular way don't know basketball.
There's never just one way to do anything. But there are almost always best practices. And wise people pay attention to what successful people are doing and how.

Those relying heavily on freshman talent in modern college basketball are putting themselves at an unnecessary disadvantage.
jsstewar
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People forget the John Wall UK team that we lost to in the Elite 8.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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jsstewar said:

People forget the John Wall UK team that we lost to in the Elite 8.


We lost to the Anthony Davis National Champion UK team in the Elite Eight. The John Wall UK team lost to West Virginia in the Elite Eight.
BabyJBear
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OP claims to be more knowledgeable than the rest of us then posts a rant filled with gross oversimplifications. Well played, sir.
FFA0329
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Ivanbear, I think Walter is a great person, tried super hard, team player, etc. you could not ask for a better freshman in all those respects; however, I think George has a much better NBA upside. George drove me crazy sometimes last year, but looking back that ankle injury really hurt him and his performance. Having said that, looking at their one year at Baylor, George had a better handle by far, was a much better passer, and is generally a much more fluid athlete in my view. Both are good guys, and great Baylor reps, but I expect George to outperform Walter in the pros.
IvanBear
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FFA0329 said:

Ivanbear, I think Walter is a great person, tried super hard, team player, etc. you could not ask for a better freshman in all those respects; however, I think George has a much better NBA upside. George drove me crazy sometimes last year, but looking back that ankle injury really hurt him and his performance. Having said that, looking at their one year at Baylor, George had a better handle by far, was a much better passer, and is generally a much more fluid athlete in my view. Both are good guys, and great Baylor reps, but I expect George to outperform Walter in the pros.
I agree, mostly because I honestly just don't think Walter is as talented as billed. He dominates lesser competition and struggles with equal or greater talent. I don't understand what people see in his game that screams he is a NBA level player.

I know people love to say he's a pure shooter, but my gosh he only looks it against scrubs, maybe he can learn to shoot better against good competition, but I've yet to see any indication that that is going to happen. For his sake Walter should go pro I just don't expect him to catch on at the next level so he should take that payout while it's there. Maybe in 5 years he can put together enough game to look like Flagler, but honestly I think Flagler's talent set ended up looking better than Walter's. It sucks b/c like you said everything about Walter the person and player is top notch except the shooting results.

On George we agree, although I'm not sure the ankle hurt him as much as age and maturity (on and off the court). Perhaps a better leader on that team would have lead him to more success. We've run a lot of years in a row now where there's no clear team leader taking ownership.
Mitch Blood Green
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ZachTay said:

All the green-n-gold blinded haters in here just wanted to hate on other (more basketball knowledgable) posters like myself. But, I started offering to all of you in here a long time ago the lack of quality free throw shooting as a priority in Drew's program would cost the Bears. It did, as predicted. Drew's scheme has run its course.

And, by the way, Coach Calipari says "hi". One-n-done 5 Stars have NEVER made a material impact to any college program. Actually, in almost all instances they have cratered a once-successful program. Drew has gotten all caught up in that kool-aide and the results show. The best programs at the D-I have players who stick and play 2-3 years together, minimum.

Sadly,

Sic'em


Carmelo says hello

Yogi
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They don't.

That's why the NBA lets the one and done thing happen in the first place. They don't have to, but the NCAA is a developmental league for the NBA.

The truth is you need a hybrid of experience and talent to win in the NCAA.

And great - not just good - coaching.
Yogi
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A few more years of being out the first weekend and some of you won't have to worry about blue chips signing with Baylor anymore.
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