Talk about Baylor and Bill Armstrong

5,635 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by Calrocks94
gobears20
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Staff
Can't see the Tre Johnson stuff happening but Bill would be great for us

EvilTroyAndAbed
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Yeah, kind of like the VJ to Kentucky stuff. VJ and Tre are one-and-dones. They are set for next year: Go and play as well as you can and then go in the draft. They're not moving around at this point.
Johnny Bear
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Yeah, kind of like the VJ to Kentucky stuff. VJ and Tre are one-and-dones. They are set for next year: Go and play as well as you can and then go in the draft. They're not moving around at this point.

You are probably right, but wouldn't it be great to put the screws to UT by flipping Johnson (as long as we got to keep Edgecombe as well).
Calrocks94
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I got to meet him a little bit last summer while working he is going to be big-time here at Baylor. He has 21 years of coaching experience mostly in the SEC. He's one hell of a recruiter
parch
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Jasper Johnson is the name to watch, not Tre Johnson (who makes no sense for us). Top 10 combo guard for 2025 who we've already offered, and now have his HC on staff. I'd imagine this puts us in the driver's seat for his signature.
ImABearToo
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Wasn't Armstrong fired from LSU along with the head coach? Some recruiting violations, which are probably legal nowadays.
Calrocks94
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Yes, but it was wrong fire, and he has recently sued and won a lot of money
IvanBear
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Johnny Bear said:

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Yeah, kind of like the VJ to Kentucky stuff. VJ and Tre are one-and-dones. They are set for next year: Go and play as well as you can and then go in the draft. They're not moving around at this point.

You are probably right, but wouldn't it be great to put the screws to UT by flipping Johnson (as long as we got to keep Edgecombe as well).
It continues to be insane to me Johnson watched last season and said, "Yeah that UT that coaching staff will get me places."
OurOurs
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I don't think he's looking so much at developing as a player as just increasing his media exposure. If you're a super talented 18 year-old, you're going to become an eventual superstar by getting to the NBA and making basketball your 24/7 life with all of the professional support that comes with it. College can help get the path started, but I imagine it's a stark contrast when the only classes you have to attend are purely basketball related.

Ultimately, I can see arguments for each side: why it would be important to be coached well for a year and why it would be important to be in as big of a spotlight as possible.
Griz
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ImABearToo said:

Wasn't Armstrong fired from LSU along with the head coach? Some recruiting violations, which are probably legal nowadays.
Big mis-understanding. All is well! Smiles everyone!
gobears20
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Staff
With what he did is it legal now? lol
Are there even any rules anymore lol
Big12Fan2024
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I just hope this guy is a yeller and a screamer and a hot head who will get after players who play lazy defense. That's the assistant Coach Drew needs because he's too soft on them and so we have been awful back to back years on defense.
IvanBear
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Big12Fan2024 said:

I just hope this guy is a yeller and a screamer and a hot head who will get after players who play lazy defense. That's the assistant Coach Drew needs because he's too soft on them and so we have been awful back to back years on defense.
Well Defense was lead by brooks, so we're not getting worse in this department.
TWD 1974
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Big12Fan2024 said:

I just hope this guy is a yeller and a screamer and a hot head who will get after players who play lazy defense. That's the assistant Coach Drew needs because he's too soft on them and so we have been awful back to back years on defense.
Do you visit practice a lot? It seems to me the idea Drew is too soft is not supported by accounts of past and present players.
bear2be2
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TWD 1974 said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

I just hope this guy is a yeller and a screamer and a hot head who will get after players who play lazy defense. That's the assistant Coach Drew needs because he's too soft on them and so we have been awful back to back years on defense.
Do you visit practice a lot? It seems to me the idea Drew is too soft is not supported by accounts of past and present players.
By what accounts? Isaiah Austin's account was the most candid and extensive account to date, and it paints a picture of a guy who gives A LOT of freedom and A LOT of chances to his players.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it's led to a lot of success at Waco. But it can be taken advantage of.
TWD 1974
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bear2be2 said:

TWD 1974 said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

I just hope this guy is a yeller and a screamer and a hot head who will get after players who play lazy defense. That's the assistant Coach Drew needs because he's too soft on them and so we have been awful back to back years on defense.
Do you visit practice a lot? It seems to me the idea Drew is too soft is not supported by accounts of past and present players.
By what accounts? Isaiah Austin's account was the most candid and extensive account to date, and it paints a picture of a guy who gives A LOT of freedom and A LOT of chances to his players.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it's led to a lot of success at Waco. But it can be taken advantage of
I remember Isaiah talking about running up and down the FC on numerous occasions. What is described is a coach who demands and largely gets top level effort from his teams. In the 20 years I have watched, Drew's teams are not always successful or efficient, but they play hard. You don't get that effort by being soft. I have seen coaches who micromanaged players behaviors, where at times players would quit on them. Not seen here. The instance Isaiah uses about Pierre Jackson, who carried us that particular year, to me reflects a coach who understood what he had with Pierre, a free spirit, who couldn't be micromanaged who always brought his game to the court. You find a way to work with talents like that. By the way, I have heard accounts of Head Coaches, coaches who won National championships, who skipped practice before NIT games.
Big12Fan2024
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You dudes are just showing your age. Isaiah Austin hasn't been part of the program in a decade. He's entirely irrelevant to what is happening now and what has happened the past couple of years. Besides we sucked at defense when he was here too. Coach Drew has even laughed about softening in interviews he's done over the past two years. Why are so many people on this site stuck in a decade+ timewarp?
TWD 1974
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Big12Fan2024 said:

You dudes are just showing your age. Isaiah Austin hasn't been part of the program in a decade. He's entirely irrelevant to what is happening now and what has happened the past couple of years. Besides we sucked at defense when he was here too. Coach Drew has even laughed about softening in interviews he's done over the past two years. Why are so many people on this site stuck in a decade+ timewarp?
1. The Austin interview was recent and was mentioned on this site. I responded to the reference to that.
2. The advantage to being older (aside from the necessary shedding of some amount of arrogance) is you can see in the past what it takes to achieve success--which is not simply an automatic that comes when you reach an elite level. The problem with defense is not about finding a coach who will talk tough, but in making the high level decisions on what your team is to be; do you build your team to fit your defense, or adjust your defense to the talent you have? Three years ago, we hit the lottery on the perfect combination. It took almost a decade to get to that. Those players are gone, and now we struggle a bit to find the right balance. Can we get back to it? I think we can, but once again, history tells us how hard it is, and understanding the current moment with the portal, and NIL should give us further evidence of the difficulty.
Adriacus Peratuun
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TWD 1974 said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

You dudes are just showing your age. Isaiah Austin hasn't been part of the program in a decade. He's entirely irrelevant to what is happening now and what has happened the past couple of years. Besides we sucked at defense when he was here too. Coach Drew has even laughed about softening in interviews he's done over the past two years. Why are so many people on this site stuck in a decade+ timewarp?
1. The Austin interview was recent and was mentioned on this site. I responded to the reference to that.
2. The advantage to being older (aside from the necessary shedding of some amount of arrogance) is you can see in the past what it takes to achieve success--which is not simply an automatic that comes when you reach an elite level. The problem with defense is not about finding a coach who will talk tough, but in making the high level decisions on what your team is to be; do you build your team to fit your defense, or adjust your defense to the talent you have? Three years ago, we hit the lottery on the perfect combination. It took almost a decade to get to that. Those players are gone, and now we struggle a bit to find the right balance. Can we get back to it? I think we can, but once again, history tells us how hard it is, and understanding the current moment with the portal, and NIL should give us further evidence of the difficulty.
Baylor's D issues haven't been caused by schematic deficiency.

Lackluster effort? Yes
Players not working over Summer on technique? Yes
Limited lateral quickness on the perimeter? Yes
Scheme? Not so much
TWD 1974
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

You dudes are just showing your age. Isaiah Austin hasn't been part of the program in a decade. He's entirely irrelevant to what is happening now and what has happened the past couple of years. Besides we sucked at defense when he was here too. Coach Drew has even laughed about softening in interviews he's done over the past two years. Why are so many people on this site stuck in a decade+ timewarp?
1. The Austin interview was recent and was mentioned on this site. I responded to the reference to that.
2. The advantage to being older (aside from the necessary shedding of some amount of arrogance) is you can see in the past what it takes to achieve success--which is not simply an automatic that comes when you reach an elite level. The problem with defense is not about finding a coach who will talk tough, but in making the high level decisions on what your team is to be; do you build your team to fit your defense, or adjust your defense to the talent you have? Three years ago, we hit the lottery on the perfect combination. It took almost a decade to get to that. Those players are gone, and now we struggle a bit to find the right balance. Can we get back to it? I think we can, but once again, history tells us how hard it is, and understanding the current moment with the portal, and NIL should give us further evidence of the difficulty.
Baylor's D issues haven't been caused by schematic deficiency.

Lackluster effort? Yes
Players not working over Summer on technique? Yes
Limited lateral quickness on the perimeter? Yes
Scheme? Not so much
a. effort, you might have made that argument last year. This year, I saw for the most part guys working hard on D, though not always working smart.
b. Summer work on technique? Not sure, with the portal and the Freshman, it is undoubtedly a lot harder to build the time needed to develop a good team defense. Missi I am sure could have benefited from any number of defensive tips if there had been time to teach him. The problem for the younger players was more in the team defense. Also, I noticed some of our most notable bad defensive play came at the substitution points. It may be not enough time playing with different sets of players rather than the same five. In short, it seemed to me at least the problems were more in the area of communication than technique or conditioning.
c. Limited lateral quickness: Agree, though Langston gets the pass with the knee. Not everyone --in fact most--do not get the lateral movement 100% from lateral tears. As a whole, this guard unit could be surprisingly slow footed at times. I am not sure the cause, though I suggest sometimes confusion will do that.
d. As to scheme: I think great defenders can play any defense. Would you put Davion Mitchell at 6-0 guarding the perimeter in a zone? You bet I would, for every time some 6-6 guard is trying to shoot over him, there is another where he makes a steal or disrupts the shot. What failed this year was the attempt to change to zone during conference play. Probably not the best timing to do that, and frankly, my suspicion is that there were some on the staff not fully bought in on the change. Whatever you do, zone, no middle or triangle and 2, you need everyone bought in to it.
Crawfoso1973
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Basketball fans in general equate effort with good defense, which is a common misconception . Contrary to popular belief, team and individual defense is not all about effort. Any more than a poor offensive player or a poor offensive team can become a good offensive player or good offensive team by simply giving more effort.

Last year I saw a high level of effort on defense which didn't equate to good results. The past 2 seasons our team defense has been disjointed and disconnected which is a direct reflection of coaching, not lack of effort from individual players. Our perimeter D in particular has been atrocious even when effort is apparent. Guys like Walter and Nunn should have been better based on their effort and athleticism. They always played hard out but showed poor fundamentals (especially when closing out, taking poor angles).

This is a function of 2 factors, a) we have recruited offense-first guys over the past several seasons who are naturally mediocre / bad defenders and, b) a lack of ability from our coaching staff to coach them up to at least be adequate defenders. I suspect CSD is addressing the coaching side of things as I type this. Personnel-wise we have several openings that we can fill via the portal, I am very interested to see if we recruit guys who are at least adequate on the defensive end.
Stefano DiMera
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Schyer at Duke and Izzo at Michigan State both said they could attack us because we don't communicate on defense.

That's not effort..but it's either scheme or lack of basketball IQ .

You don't have the second half comeback against UH and Clemson and others because of lack of effort.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Stefano DiMera said:

Schyer at Duke and Izzo at Michigan State both said they could attack us because we don't communicate on defense.

That's not effort..but it's either scheme or lack of basketball IQ .

You don't have the second half comeback against UH and Clemson and others because of lack of effort.
Bad Logic.

Communication does not equal scheme. Scheme is what is done. Communication is how it is done.

And your "effort" comment doesn't make your point…..in fact the opposite.
If the same scheme is employed successfully at times and unsuccessfully at times, that tends to indicate that it isn't the scheme that is inherently defective but rather the execution of the scheme that occasionally falters.
Putting forth good effort at times doesn't equal good effort all the time.

The inconsistent results [especially within games] clearly point to execution flaws more than design flaws.
Adriacus Peratuun
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TWD 1974 said:

Adriacus Peratuun said:

TWD 1974 said:

Big12Fan2024 said:

You dudes are just showing your age. Isaiah Austin hasn't been part of the program in a decade. He's entirely irrelevant to what is happening now and what has happened the past couple of years. Besides we sucked at defense when he was here too. Coach Drew has even laughed about softening in interviews he's done over the past two years. Why are so many people on this site stuck in a decade+ timewarp?
1. The Austin interview was recent and was mentioned on this site. I responded to the reference to that.
2. The advantage to being older (aside from the necessary shedding of some amount of arrogance) is you can see in the past what it takes to achieve success--which is not simply an automatic that comes when you reach an elite level. The problem with defense is not about finding a coach who will talk tough, but in making the high level decisions on what your team is to be; do you build your team to fit your defense, or adjust your defense to the talent you have? Three years ago, we hit the lottery on the perfect combination. It took almost a decade to get to that. Those players are gone, and now we struggle a bit to find the right balance. Can we get back to it? I think we can, but once again, history tells us how hard it is, and understanding the current moment with the portal, and NIL should give us further evidence of the difficulty.
Baylor's D issues haven't been caused by schematic deficiency.

Lackluster effort? Yes
Players not working over Summer on technique? Yes
Limited lateral quickness on the perimeter? Yes
Scheme? Not so much
a. effort, you might have made that argument last year. This year, I saw for the most part guys working hard on D, though not always working smart.
b. Summer work on technique? Not sure, with the portal and the Freshman, it is undoubtedly a lot harder to build the time needed to develop a good team defense. Missi I am sure could have benefited from any number of defensive tips if there had been time to teach him. The problem for the younger players was more in the team defense. Also, I noticed some of our most notable bad defensive play came at the substitution points. It may be not enough time playing with different sets of players rather than the same five. In short, it seemed to me at least the problems were more in the area of communication than technique or conditioning.
c. Limited lateral quickness: Agree, though Langston gets the pass with the knee. Not everyone --in fact most--do not get the lateral movement 100% from lateral tears. As a whole, this guard unit could be surprisingly slow footed at times. I am not sure the cause, though I suggest sometimes confusion will do that.
d. As to scheme: I think great defenders can play any defense. Would you put Davion Mitchell at 6-0 guarding the perimeter in a zone? You bet I would, for every time some 6-6 guard is trying to shoot over him, there is another where he makes a steal or disrupts the shot. What failed this year was the attempt to change to zone during conference play. Probably not the best timing to do that, and frankly, my suspicion is that there were some on the staff not fully bought in on the change. Whatever you do, zone, no middle or triangle and 2, you need everyone bought in to it.
a. effort isn't simply a game issue. It is also a preparation issue.
b. using Davion Mitchell as an example [as you did], he spent chunks of his Summer working on D [well recorded his one on one work with Gillespie]. The last couple of years we have guys who spend an inordinate % of solo work on shooting while ignoring other less glamorous drills/work. Direct comment by staff.
c. Love shouldn't get a pass. Every player should be drilling lateral movement & various drop steps all Summer long. It is definitely hard work & not glamorous. It is also the fundamental solo work done for D.
d. Scheme matters. No Middle was all the rage three years ago. Today almost no team uses it. Rules changes necessitate schematic change. Schematic flexibility increases the likelihood of successful "in game" adjustments.
Stefano DiMera
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Lol .my reply to your post was I was in agreement with you!
historian
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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"George Santayana, Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, p. 284.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
True Grit
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What's the latest? Is Armstrong joining the staff?
Calrocks94
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It'll be announce this week that ink is already dry on the paper
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