boykin_spaniel said:

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We get some recruits who we plan to be 2-3 year players and we lose them: Sochan, Missi, and now Bob.

We get one year rentals and everyone freaks out about culture and roster turnover.

I would like to build a team like Houston but CSD has had some bad luck along with some roster construction mistakes. If a collective from Kentucky or Duke reached out and said we will 2x whatever Baylor is offering there's not much we can do. We have deep pockets but those schools can outbid damn near anyone when it comes to basketball.

It's frustrating and I'm not criticizing anyone's opinions here but I'm not seeing any great answers because there aren't any. Construct a team of 1 year players and hope they gel come March? Risky and may create depth issues. Create a team of hungry 3* and 4* guys? They may end up bouncing like Bob or blowing up like Sochan and Missi and leaving early.

Dubravcic and Asemota were supposed to be dudes we coach up and they hit the portal. Iowa State had a deep team and some of those guys hit the portal for more minutes and money. It's a completely different ball game out there with no rules except when the actual game of basketball is being played.

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You don't bad luck your way into losing literally every player off a 10-plus player roster.

That's bad management.

We literally have zero returning players. That shouldn't ever happen at a place with a returning coach.

I said combo of bad luck and roster construction but what is Baylor supposed to do when a Kentucky tampers with a player for 2x what we're offering? Expect "culture" to combat the whims of 18-20 year old kids every time?

Let's be realistic here. The Ashton Jeanty type kids who turn down the money are not as common especially the ones who don't have much of a shot at the pros. Jeanty was RB1 and stayed at Boise. For every Sawyer you've got a Carson Beck. For every Jalen Bridges you've got a Jonas Aidoo.

I don't like this reality… but I think for most people there is a price point where you can't ignore the dollar signs when making a decision.

We will probably never know what the dollar amounts were… but if he had the opportunity to make an additional $500,000 or more in one year it's hard for me to hold that decision against him.

Personally for me… If that is how things shook out I would reserve more of my anger over the lack of guardrails and systems in this process than the player making a lucrative financial decision.

The Kentucky tampering is bs. Agents are sourcing. Kentucky won't even be in picture, imo. But to name a coach is bs, 'wannabe in the know' crap.

But if they were, tampering is not a deal...unless You believe BU has no feelers out as well.

IowaBear said:

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There's multiple elite guards yearly… and often times they come from small schools

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Or, like a Uzan...course some didn't think he was tough enough to lead UH after Shead. All a crapshoot, I guess.

There's still some left.

Walter Clayton came from Iona, a Chazz Lanier from North Florida, Will Richard from Belmont. Dalton Knecht from Northern Colorado. There's talent all over. Just gotta find it (easier said than done)

IowaBear said:

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Walter Clayton came from Iona, a Chazz Lanier from North Florida, Will Richard from Belmont. Dalton Knecht from Northern Colorado. There's talent all over. Just gotta find it (easier said than done)

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Great point, but I'm guessing those guys may have still been expensive?? They couldn't have been this good out of nowhere. I would love to be able to develop a team and have continuity, but if we are a low NIL school, then that is probably a pipe dream. Once a guy looks to be promising, he can be poached. As much as it goes against the ideal notion of having players you can root for over their college careers, we may have to reconcile ourselves mostly to reloading every year and trying to find the guys like you described.

I guess it depends on what we're defining as expensive. I truly have no clue what those examples cost. But I'd wager they didn't cost the 1.5 million we were going to give Rob. And all 4 are/were better players (not a knock)
The best example I can give you is Curtis jones. ISU gave him around 900k when he transferred from Buffalo

College bb will have to go to contracts at some point. But it won't be easy the way nil is set up.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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IvanBear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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IvanBear said:

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IowaBear said:

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This one's not on Drew. This is on Rob Wright for being a grade A *****.
I've been critical of Drew's roster construction (still am) but this isn't on Drew whatsoever

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This just continues to make drew look like a sucker. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing, his staff defections last year now look worse on him, and the defections are more a function of his inability to roster build.

Good teams and good coaches aren't losing centerpieces, they're managing personalities he failed at that here

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So he's a bad coach?

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Trailing two years analysis makes it look like he's not ready to be a good coach in the NIL era. He needs to change or retire, the game has changed.

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So I've got you down for "Fire Drew."

Fire Drew - 1
Keep Drew - 1 (that's me)

Let's take a vote. Who wants to fire Drew?

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Anyone who seriously suggests firing Drew needs to have their IP address permabanned from this site. There's a very good chance that Baylor MBB will tank once Drew is gone, similar to what happened with WBB when Kim left (can't stand her, but she was elite and, like Drew, the only reason Baylor was successful). He's the only thing keeping us relevant. I have no clue how we can increase the student body population, build a new arena, win a natty and still somehow have a terrible fanbase.

If Rob got 1.5m of our nil budget then left. I am done with any donations to the athletic department at all. This puts us way down in the hole

IowaBear said:

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I guess it depends on what we're defining as expensive. I truly have no clue what those examples cost. But I'd wager they didn't cost the 1.5 million we were going to give Rob. And all 4 are/were better players (not a knock)
The best example I can give you is Curtis jones. ISU gave him around 900k when he transferred from Buffalo

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You may be right, I don't know what they cost. I'm just venturing a guess that Knecht had to be on everyone's radar since he is playing for the Lakers a year later. Hard to imagine that Clayton could have been an under the radar guy, but maybe he was. I think that Richard and maybe even Lanier were obtained cheaply. What a coup Lanier was, especially.

I'll watch BU games even though I am not a fan of pro basketball. I haven't watched the NBA for years now.

Some of the interest is gone. When you have 3 to 4 new starters every year that is bad enough. An entire roster? WOW.

I have a Knoxville source on Lanier getting around $1.2 to $1.4 million

boykin_spaniel said:

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I have a Knoxville source on Lanier getting around $1.2 to $1.4 million

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I believe it. I think UT has done well to get him and Knecht, but I think they had to pony up for both.

boognish_bear said:

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I don't like this reality… but I think for most people there is a price point where you can't ignore the dollar signs when making a decision.

We will probably never know what the dollar amounts were… but if he had the opportunity to make an additional $500,000 or more in one year it's hard for me to hold that decision against him.

Personally for me… If that is how things shook out I would reserve more of my anger over the lack of guardrails and systems in this process than the player making a lucrative financial decision.

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Agree. I'm not mad at him for taking the cash while he can. People leave and take more money in all industries. I have been on both sides during my career.

However, I am less interested in college basketball given the amount of player shuffling that takes place each year. It seems like 2 to 4 schools in 4 years is going to become the norm for players. Why pay attention anymore in the off season? Just tune in and watch whoever suits up when the season begins.

Jacques Strap said:

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boognish_bear said:

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I don't like this reality… but I think for most people there is a price point where you can't ignore the dollar signs when making a decision.

We will probably never know what the dollar amounts were… but if he had the opportunity to make an additional $500,000 or more in one year it's hard for me to hold that decision against him.

Personally for me… If that is how things shook out I would reserve more of my anger over the lack of guardrails and systems in this process than the player making a lucrative financial decision.

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Agree. I'm not mad at him for taking the cash while he can. People leave and take more money in all industries. I have been on both sides during my career.

However, I am less interested in college basketball given the amount of player shuffling that takes place each year. It seems like 2 to 4 schools in 4 years is going to become the norm for players. Why pay attention anymore in the off season? Just tune in and watch whoever suits up when the season begins.

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Yep - can't find fault with that.

I'm just using Kentucky as an example to fill in for teams with near endless bags of cash. Tampering is 100% happening though. Players get personally contacted outside the portal window or when they aren't in the portal. It gets complex with agents, many of which are shady dudes at the college level. Is an agent running into a collective member at say A&M or St. John's and asking a "general question" on "how much can your collective get a point guard" tampering? As we know the NCAA won't do anything until randomly picking an agreeable school to make an example out of. The Iowa schools got targeted for gambling because they're big enough to make an example of but not big enough to cause a problem like hammering Alabama football or Carolina basketball.

Art_E_Guinn said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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IvanBear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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IvanBear said:

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IowaBear said:

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This one's not on Drew. This is on Rob Wright for being a grade A *****.
I've been critical of Drew's roster construction (still am) but this isn't on Drew whatsoever

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This just continues to make drew look like a sucker. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing, his staff defections last year now look worse on him, and the defections are more a function of his inability to roster build.

Good teams and good coaches aren't losing centerpieces, they're managing personalities he failed at that here

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So he's a bad coach?

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Trailing two years analysis makes it look like he's not ready to be a good coach in the NIL era. He needs to change or retire, the game has changed.

---

So I've got you down for "Fire Drew."

Fire Drew - 1
Keep Drew - 1 (that's me)

Let's take a vote. Who wants to fire Drew?

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Anyone who seriously suggests firing Drew needs to have their IP address permabanned from this site. There's a very good chance that Baylor MBB will tank once Drew is gone, similar to what happened with WBB when Kim left (can't stand her, but she was elite and, like Drew, the only reason Baylor was successful). He's the only thing keeping us relevant. I have no clue how we can increase the student body population, build a new arena, win a natty and still somehow have a terrible fanbase.

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Drew has a lifetime job here, as far as I'm concerned, but it's also clear he's struggling in the current environment.

Agree with you, though. When we hired both Briles and Mulkey I heard people justifying it with the old "we are a program, not a coach" line. Sorry, bud. In college sports, your program is basically what your coach makes it. Drew has the biggest accomplishment in Baylor sports history, IMO, and he will get this figured out.

Art_E_Guinn said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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IvanBear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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IvanBear said:

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IowaBear said:

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This one's not on Drew. This is on Rob Wright for being a grade A *****.
I've been critical of Drew's roster construction (still am) but this isn't on Drew whatsoever

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This just continues to make drew look like a sucker. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing, his staff defections last year now look worse on him, and the defections are more a function of his inability to roster build.

Good teams and good coaches aren't losing centerpieces, they're managing personalities he failed at that here

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So he's a bad coach?

---

Trailing two years analysis makes it look like he's not ready to be a good coach in the NIL era. He needs to change or retire, the game has changed.

---

So I've got you down for "Fire Drew."

Fire Drew - 1
Keep Drew - 1 (that's me)

Let's take a vote. Who wants to fire Drew?

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Anyone who seriously suggests firing Drew needs to have their IP address permabanned from this site. There's a very good chance that Baylor MBB will tank once Drew is gone, similar to what happened with WBB when Kim left (can't stand her, but she was elite and, like Drew, the only reason Baylor was successful). He's the only thing keeping us relevant. I have no clue how we can increase the student body population, build a new arena, win a natty and still somehow have a terrible fanbase.

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If women's basketball has "tanked" under Collen, who has averaged 25.5 wins per season, won one Big 12 championship, played for another and has a Sweet Sixteen to go with three Round of 32 appearances, how would you describe our men's basketball performance over the same time period?

Success has levels obviously. But if we're going to lament a drop from Kim's level to Collen's, we should probably at least acknowledge the significant dip our men's basketball program has taken over the past four years.

No one is suggesting that Drew should be fired. But there is nothing at all wrong with pointing out that our program is in a stagnant place right now with no discernible plan for how to get out of this rut.

IowaBear said:

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I guess it depends on what we're defining as expensive. I truly have no clue what those examples cost. But I'd wager they didn't cost the 1.5 million we were going to give Rob. And all 4 are/were better players (not a knock)
The best example I can give you is Curtis jones. ISU gave him around 900k when he transferred from Buffalo

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But, without some form of checks and balances, NIL cap per team, etc, the offers each year will grow exponentially. A Curtis Jones type player in the current portal would probably command much more than $900k.

One thing Baylor has always been is reactive instead of proactive.

Some of you may not have seen the news of Steph Curry being hired at Davidson at asst GM..and Trey Young to same position at OU..

Apparently they're 2 main responsibilities are deciding who gets paid what and actually working out recruits and evaluating them ..

Not sure if we have any thing like that in place cause not sure our talent evaluation has been the best.

Stefano DiMera said:

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One thing Baylor has always been is reactive instead of proactive.

Some of you may not have seen the news of Steph Curry being hired at Davidson at asst GM..and Trey Young to same position at OU..

Apparently they're 2 main responsibilities are deciding who gets paid what and actually working out recruits and evaluating them ..

Not sure if we have any thing like that in place cause not sure our talent evaluation has been the best.

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Well, Davon picked Rob so we were way ahead of the curve

Stefano DiMera said:

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One thing Baylor has always been is reactive instead of proactive.

Some of you may not have seen the news of Steph Curry being hired at Davidson at asst GM..and Trey Young to same position at OU..

Apparently they're 2 main responsibilities are deciding who gets paid what and actually working out recruits and evaluating them ..

Not sure if we have any thing like that in place cause not sure our talent evaluation has been the best.

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When are they going to do that? They're kind of busy until June.

NEW: NCAA President Charlie Baker on today's settlement hearing:

"If approved, the settlement will allow student-athletes the opportunity to receive nearly 50% of athletic department revenue in a sustainable and fair system for years to come." https://t.co/EHERJ8ZVjs pic.twitter.com/rYoLoc5Sal

— On3 NIL (@On3NIL) April 8, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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NEW: NCAA President Charlie Baker on today's settlement hearing:

"If approved, the settlement will allow student-athletes the opportunity to receive nearly 50% of athletic department revenue in a sustainable and fair system for years to come." https://t.co/EHERJ8ZVjs pic.twitter.com/rYoLoc5Sal

— On3 NIL (@On3NIL) April 8, 2025

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As a Baylor student, can I and the other students get 50% of all academic revenue? Asking for a friend.

NEWS: North Carolina freshman Ian Jackson has entered the transfer portal, per a @247Sports source.

Former five-star recruit.https://t.co/wCDZ4zhHzC pic.twitter.com/d9uHCoapFI

— Travis Branham (@TravisBranham_) April 7, 2025

Ian Jackson reportedly wants to play for a school with a high-profile coach after entering the transfer portal.

Expected to look at these schools:

Michigan State
Kansas
St. John’s
Texas Tech
UCLA

Former five-star guard averaged 11.9 ppg for North Carolina this season. #NCAA pic.twitter.com/2ZTFj0xpki

— Brody Sheetz (@brodysheetzESPN) April 7, 2025

Booboo Bear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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NEW: NCAA President Charlie Baker on today's settlement hearing:

"If approved, the settlement will allow student-athletes the opportunity to receive nearly 50% of athletic department revenue in a sustainable and fair system for years to come." https://t.co/EHERJ8ZVjs pic.twitter.com/rYoLoc5Sal

— On3 NIL (@On3NIL) April 8, 2025

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As a Baylor student, can I and the other students get 50% of all academic revenue? Asking for a friend.

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If yall can get 10,000 people to buy tickets to watch you study for finals in the Armstrong Browning library there's a chance.

boognish_bear said:

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Booboo Bear said:

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boognish_bear said:

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NEW: NCAA President Charlie Baker on today's settlement hearing:

"If approved, the settlement will allow student-athletes the opportunity to receive nearly 50% of athletic department revenue in a sustainable and fair system for years to come." https://t.co/EHERJ8ZVjs pic.twitter.com/rYoLoc5Sal

— On3 NIL (@On3NIL) April 8, 2025

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As a Baylor student, can I and the other students get 50% of all academic revenue? Asking for a friend.

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If yall can get 10,000 people to buy tickets to watch you study for finals in the Armstrong Browning library there's a chance.

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Not sure this is huge loss. Very inconsistent player. Didn't always play with a high motor. Struggled to finish at the rim. 3 point shot was hit and miss (mostly miss) and had some critical turnovers at key moments. Did hit some clutch free throws but wouldn't call him a clutch player. I know he was a freshman and should show improvement. I guess we will find out with another team.

Smashmouth said:

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Not sure this is huge loss. Very inconsistent player. Didn't always play with a high motor. Struggled to finish at the rim. 3 point shot was hit and miss (mostly miss) and had some critical turnovers at key moments. Did hit some clutch free throws but wouldn't call him a clutch player. I know he was a freshman and should show improvement. I guess we will find out with another team.

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Cope.

boognish_bear said:

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NEW: NCAA President Charlie Baker on today's settlement hearing:

"If approved, the settlement will allow student-athletes the opportunity to receive nearly 50% of athletic department revenue in a sustainable and fair system for years to come." https://t.co/EHERJ8ZVjs pic.twitter.com/rYoLoc5Sal

— On3 NIL (@On3NIL) April 8, 2025

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And will bury the bottom 250 schools. Good luck, AD's.

IowaBear said:

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Yeah I'm hanging onto FB until this starts happening with the FB program (inevitable) but I'm out on BB. There's zero returning players. Zero structure with the NCAAS. Tampering clear as ****ing day. And zero resolution. I won't be shocked if Drew retires soon

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"Starts happening with the football program?" You should open your eyes. That ship has sailed.

Welcome to the new world.

possible12 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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NEW: NCAA President Charlie Baker on today's settlement hearing:

"If approved, the settlement will allow student-athletes the opportunity to receive nearly 50% of athletic department revenue in a sustainable and fair system for years to come." https://t.co/EHERJ8ZVjs pic.twitter.com/rYoLoc5Sal

— On3 NIL (@On3NIL) April 8, 2025

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And will bury the bottom 250 schools. Good luck, AD's.

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If we agree to something that is percentage of revenue based, we are complete imbeciles.

boykin_spaniel said:

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I said combo of bad luck and roster construction but what is Baylor supposed to do when a Kentucky tampers with a player for 2x what we're offering? Expect "culture" to combat the whims of 18-20 year old kids every time?

Let's be realistic here. The Ashton Jeanty type kids who turn down the money are not as common especially the ones who don't have much of a shot at the pros. Jeanty was RB1 and stayed at Boise. For every Sawyer you've got a Carson Beck. For every Jalen Bridges you've got a Jonas Aidoo.

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Stop w/ the Kentucky tampering. agents tamper. everywhere. It's the willd, wild west.