I've personally never seen it. There's reticent acceptance, finally, that Drew can coach after years and years of quality results. I do think much of the animosity revolves around the combination of religion and college sports. Your average fan doesn't take well to that.Oldbear83 said:
Barley: "I've never seen ANY fan/alum of another school say that they would want Scott Drew"
Strange, I see and hear it a lot. TCU fans wanted Drew before they got Dixon, I know some West Virginia fans who are business colleagues here in Houston who would like Drew to replace Huggins, and Longhorn fans have long hoped they could steal Drew away.
Another Mirror Year
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117 Replies |
Last: 5 yr ago by xiledinok
Jay Square said:
There is an interesting article on ESPN about University of Houston's basketball coach Keivin Sampson that Mark Rhoades hired in 2014. Coach Sampson's first year record was 13-19 and this year their record is 30-2 and they are still playing.
Ok and? Doesn't take away the fact that Drew is a very good coach, great even in some aspects, and we're lucky to have him.
Disagree.BarleyMcDougal said:I've personally never seen it. There's reticent acceptance, finally, that Drew can coach after years and years of quality results. I do think much of the animosity revolves around the combination of religion and college sports. Your average fan doesn't take well to that.Oldbear83 said:
Barley: "I've never seen ANY fan/alum of another school say that they would want Scott Drew"
Strange, I see and hear it a lot. TCU fans wanted Drew before they got Dixon, I know some West Virginia fans who are business colleagues here in Houston who would like Drew to replace Huggins, and Longhorn fans have long hoped they could steal Drew away.
First, I talk with a relatively wide range of sports fans. Granted, my generation is older and so we reference a broader spectrum of seasons - one reason my Mountaineer friends in Houston mention trading Huggins for Drew, is that they feel Huggins has stopped improving, while Drew continues to do more with less.
The 'combination of religion and college sports' line is, to me, BS. No one says anything about Notre Dame or that nun from Chicago a couple years back. No one mocks BYU for their Mormon influence, and Baylor has never been in-your-face about religion. It's a weak excuse with nothing to back it up in fact.
Resistance to Drew is more about old-school coaches who see Drew as a threat to the Old Boy Network. Barnes hated Drew because he ignored demands to stay out of 'Longhorn' territory in recruiting, and Self hates Drew because while Baylor has never won in Lawrence, since Drew arrived Kansas has pretty much always had to sweat out games against Drew, including a couple conference tournament games. Drew is crafty, and has won a number of games by making mid-game changes that ordinary coaches would not have dared to try.
Drew is more respected now, because he is winning consistently and doesn't look like he wants to leave Baylor. Teams with recruiting advantages know they will still get their blue chip recruits and win most of the time, and the Big 12 screws Drew just often enough to take away a game or two when the Bears look a little too dangerous. That's OK in a way, because it causes teams outside the Big12 to undervalue Baylor, and so Drew sometimes goes further than expected in the NCAA Tournament because of that.
Drew is a good, decent man who truly loves and supports his athletes. He also happens to be one of the smartest coaches in this part of the country. Anyone who doesn't see that is sadly mistaken.
Hmm...I guess we can agree to disagree. Maybe it was that he was perceived as a coach that cheated up there with the likes of Calipari and Self. I think he still is seen that way by some, even though the recruiting rankings don't really bear that out. So, to be religious and seen as a cheat is hypocrisy in the eyes of many. But I agree that his coaching should be respected more.Oldbear83 said:Disagree.BarleyMcDougal said:I've personally never seen it. There's reticent acceptance, finally, that Drew can coach after years and years of quality results. I do think much of the animosity revolves around the combination of religion and college sports. Your average fan doesn't take well to that.Oldbear83 said:
Barley: "I've never seen ANY fan/alum of another school say that they would want Scott Drew"
Strange, I see and hear it a lot. TCU fans wanted Drew before they got Dixon, I know some West Virginia fans who are business colleagues here in Houston who would like Drew to replace Huggins, and Longhorn fans have long hoped they could steal Drew away.
First, I talk with a relatively wide range of sports fans. Granted, my generation is older and so we reference a broader spectrum of seasons - one reason my Mountaineer friends in Houston mention trading Huggins for Drew, is that they feel Huggins has stopped improving, while Drew continues to do more with less.
The 'combination of religion and college sports' line is, to me, BS. No one says anything about Notre Dame or that nun from Chicago a couple years back. No one mocks BYU for their Mormon influence, and Baylor has never been in-your-face about religion. It's a weak excuse with nothing to back it up in fact.
Resistance to Drew is more about old-school coaches who see Drew as a threat to the Old Boy Network. Barnes hated Drew because he ignored demands to stay out of 'Longhorn' territory in recruiting, and Self hates Drew because while Baylor has never won in Lawrence, since Drew arrived Kansas has pretty much always had to sweat out games against Drew, including a couple conference tournament games. Drew is crafty, and has won a number of games by making mid-game changes that ordinary coaches would not have dared to try.
Drew is more respected now, because he is winning consistently and doesn't look like he wants to leave Baylor. Teams with recruiting advantages know they will still get their blue chip recruits and win most of the time, and the Big 12 screws Drew just often enough to take away a game or two when the Bears look a little too dangerous. That's OK in a way, because it causes teams outside the Big12 to undervalue Baylor, and so Drew sometimes goes further than expected in the NCAA Tournament because of that.
Drew is a good, decent man who truly loves and supports his athletes. He also happens to be one of the smartest coaches in this part of the country. Anyone who doesn't see that is sadly mistaken.
The Big 12 is cheating Drew and Baylor for wins? I hate this kind of thought process.
That's not our classy Baylor attitude.
That's not our classy Baylor attitude.
So help me out. What are the expectations. Over an X year period, what should be accomplished?
And if you're going to be vague, and say something like compete for a conference title, define what that means. Finish top 3? Just trying to see what the concrete expectations are.
And if you're going to be vague, and say something like compete for a conference title, define what that means. Finish top 3? Just trying to see what the concrete expectations are.
The trouble with your question is that it ignores so many variables.BatonRougeBear said:
So help me out. What are the expectations. Over an X year period, what should be accomplished?
And if you're going to be vague, and say something like compete for a conference title, define what that means. Finish top 3? Just trying to see what the concrete expectations are.
Will the key players stay healthy?
How strong will the rest of the conference be in a given year?
Are you starting with a complete team, a good base that needs to fill a couple roles, or maybe a complete rebuild?
And so on.
This year, when Baylor was on the 6-game winning streak, they looked amazing and deserved to share the conference lead with Kansas State. But Mason's toe and McClure's rust after his injury proved to be too much to overcome in the end. The Bears finished 4 games back, but if they had been healthy, this team could have been the conference champion. A few bounces and we don't lose either of those early embarrassments, a few calls go our way and we beat Kansas State in their house and a couple other games.
The idea that you can plug in quantified levels of talent and experience and somehow predict the outcome is just not true for most programs.
I agree with what you're saying. My question was phrased that way intentionally for those saying that Drew is not producing conference titles or winning the conference tournament. It feels like some are citing these as measures of succsss and I'm trying to understand what their "expectations" are.
For me, over the next 10 years I'd be thrilled if it looked something like this:BatonRougeBear said:
So help me out. What are the expectations. Over an X year period, what should be accomplished?
And if you're going to be vague, and say something like compete for a conference title, define what that means. Finish top 3? Just trying to see what the concrete expectations are.
-8 NCAA Tournament appearances
-Getting a good seed in at least 6-7 of those appearances (6 seed or better, preferably closer to a 3 most years).
-5-6 runs to the second weekend of the NCAA tournament
I'd take that sight unseen.
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
The fact that this discussion is even happening this year is sad. Baylor lost a potential first team Big12 player in Tristan Clark and the team had a multitude of injuries. They still finished 4th in the Big12. Before the season they were predicted to finish 9th. The three teams above them are in the top 20 in the country. Hello that is amazing in a year when you aren't able to put your best team on the court. Ask Waste Virginia if they would like to be 4th with their best player on the bench with a season ending injury. CSD is the coach of the year in the Big12 or at least he should be. Baylor basketball has competed at a high level in arguably the toughest conference top to bottom in college basketball each and every year. Baylor has the makings of a Big12 championship team next year. CSD should be carried to the fountain on a pedestal and celebrated as king. Pretty sure this entire topic will look pretty foolish next year when Baylor is challenging for the Big 12 title and in the top 20 in the country. Without even paying for players like Kansas, TCU, and others. CSD is a great man, a great leader and a great coach. We are lucky to have him at Baylor.
So your expectation is to make every NCAA tournament and win at least 1 game in the tournament every year? Not even bluebloods do this LOLxiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
Here is the list of current consecutive NCAA tournament streaks:
29 - Kansas
23 - Duke
21 - Michigan St
20 - Gonzaga
8 - Cincy
8 - N. Carolina
7 - Wichita St
6 - Arizona
6 - Villanova
Pretty sure all those schools have gotten bounced in the first round at least once in the past 5-10 years, most of them multiple times.
Crash Davis said:So your expectation is to make every NCAA tournament and win at least 1 game in the tournament every year? Not even bluebloods do this LOLxiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
Here is the list of current consecutive NCAA tournament streaks:
29 - Kansas
23 - Duke
21 - Michigan St
20 - Gonzaga
8 - Cincy
8 - N. Carolina
7 - Wichita St
6 - Arizona
6 - Villanova
Pretty sure all those schools have gotten bounced in the first round at least once in the past 5-10 years, most of them multiple times.
Those schools expect to win those games. It's part of having tradition. Those teams also win their conference, get a high seed, and build that fanbase.
All those schools expect to make the tournament. Their fans get upset not making the tournament.
So expectations are more about bravado to you than reality? You could have just said that. Makes sense.xiledinok said:Crash Davis said:So your expectation is to make every NCAA tournament and win at least 1 game in the tournament every year? Not even bluebloods do this LOLxiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
Here is the list of current consecutive NCAA tournament streaks:
29 - Kansas
23 - Duke
21 - Michigan St
20 - Gonzaga
8 - Cincy
8 - N. Carolina
7 - Wichita St
6 - Arizona
6 - Villanova
Pretty sure all those schools have gotten bounced in the first round at least once in the past 5-10 years, most of them multiple times.
Those schools expect to win those games. It's part of having tradition. Those teams also win there conference, get a high seed, and build that fanbase.
Well, in that case, I expect Baylor to win every game in every sport from this point until the end of time. Who cares if it's realistic?
Crash Davis said:So expectations are more about bravado to you than reality? You could have just said that. Makes sense.xiledinok said:Crash Davis said:So your expectation is to make every NCAA tournament and win at least 1 game in the tournament every year? Not even bluebloods do this LOLxiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
Here is the list of current consecutive NCAA tournament streaks:
29 - Kansas
23 - Duke
21 - Michigan St
20 - Gonzaga
8 - Cincy
8 - N. Carolina
7 - Wichita St
6 - Arizona
6 - Villanova
Pretty sure all those schools have gotten bounced in the first round at least once in the past 5-10 years, most of them multiple times.
Those schools expect to win those games. It's part of having tradition. Those teams also win there conference, get a high seed, and build that fanbase.
Well, in that case, I expect Baylor to win every game in every sport from this point until the end of time. Who cares if it's realistic?
I think Baylor can compete, I ve seen most all of the Bjg 12 schools. Most of our sports have won the Big 12. Which sports haven't?
Texas Tech won the Big 12. It's time to raise that to be something to accomplish. Recruits and fans pay attention to those things.
Winning builds a fanbase. The common man likes a big winner.
To nobody's fault but my own, I didn't watch a minute of live basketball action this year (caught about half the game's highlights) despite being a big basketball fan and playing it at an AAU/all conference level in HS. We are blessed to have Drew, IMO, but would you mind expanding on this comment you made? I don't have access to Ashley's Bball posts anymore, so I know next to nothing about who is being red-shirted, transferring, or recruited, so what makes you say that? Butler (in the highlights) looked solid, but we lose Mason (I think) and nobody else really stood out to me so we seem a world away from Acy/Jones/Carter/Dunn/Heslip/Jackson/Jefferson etc for that to be a valid comment.bear2be2 said:
we're going to have the deepest team of the Scott Drew era next season and likely will be poised to make another deep tournament run.
Any education would be appreciated, thanks.
I like having the goal of winning a conference championship. As I've previously stated, I think it's a worthy goal.xiledinok said:Crash Davis said:So expectations are more about bravado to you than reality? You could have just said that. Makes sense.xiledinok said:Crash Davis said:So your expectation is to make every NCAA tournament and win at least 1 game in the tournament every year? Not even bluebloods do this LOLxiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
Here is the list of current consecutive NCAA tournament streaks:
29 - Kansas
23 - Duke
21 - Michigan St
20 - Gonzaga
8 - Cincy
8 - N. Carolina
7 - Wichita St
6 - Arizona
6 - Villanova
Pretty sure all those schools have gotten bounced in the first round at least once in the past 5-10 years, most of them multiple times.
Those schools expect to win those games. It's part of having tradition. Those teams also win there conference, get a high seed, and build that fanbase.
Well, in that case, I expect Baylor to win every game in every sport from this point until the end of time. Who cares if it's realistic?
I think Baylor can compete, I ve seen most all of the Bjg 12 schools. Most of our sports have won the Big 12. Which sports haven't?
Texas Tech won the Big 12. It's time to raise that to be something to accomplish. Recruits and fans pay attention to those things.
Winning builds a fanbase. The common man likes a big winner.
I was merely noting that some of your stated expectations are essentially unachievable, which is silly IMO.
Crash Davis said:I like having the goal of winning a conference championship. As I've previously stated, I think it's a worthy goal.xiledinok said:Crash Davis said:So expectations are more about bravado to you than reality? You could have just said that. Makes sense.xiledinok said:Crash Davis said:So your expectation is to make every NCAA tournament and win at least 1 game in the tournament every year? Not even bluebloods do this LOLxiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
Here is the list of current consecutive NCAA tournament streaks:
29 - Kansas
23 - Duke
21 - Michigan St
20 - Gonzaga
8 - Cincy
8 - N. Carolina
7 - Wichita St
6 - Arizona
6 - Villanova
Pretty sure all those schools have gotten bounced in the first round at least once in the past 5-10 years, most of them multiple times.
Those schools expect to win those games. It's part of having tradition. Those teams also win there conference, get a high seed, and build that fanbase.
Well, in that case, I expect Baylor to win every game in every sport from this point until the end of time. Who cares if it's realistic?
I think Baylor can compete, I ve seen most all of the Bjg 12 schools. Most of our sports have won the Big 12. Which sports haven't?
Texas Tech won the Big 12. It's time to raise that to be something to accomplish. Recruits and fans pay attention to those things.
Winning builds a fanbase. The common man likes a big winner.
I was merely noting that some of your stated expectations are essentially unachievable, which is silly IMO.
I understand where you are coming from but I think Baylor can give it a shot. The real championship contenders don't like losing or failure.
We return everyone from this year's team but Mason and McClure, get Tristan Clark back from injury and welcome in transfer guards MaCio Teague (16.1 ppg; 43.7 percent from 3 in two years at UNC-Asheville) and Davion Mitchell (four-star recruit who played 17 minutes per game as a true freshman at Auburn).Prairie_Bear said:To nobody's fault but my own, I didn't watch a minute of live basketball action this year (caught about half the game's highlights) despite being a big basketball fan and playing it at an AAU/all conference level in HS. We are blessed to have Drew, IMO, but would you mind expanding on this comment you made? I don't have access to Ashley's Bball posts anymore, so I know next to nothing about who is being red-shirted, transferring, or recruited, so what makes you say that? Butler (in the highlights) looked solid, but we lose Mason (I think) and nobody else really stood out to me so we seem a world away from Acy/Jones/Carter/Dunn/Heslip/Jackson/Jefferson etc for that to be a valid comment.bear2be2 said:
we're going to have the deepest team of the Scott Drew era next season and likely will be poised to make another deep tournament run.
Any education would be appreciated, thanks.
That leaves us with an outstanding guard corps of ...
--Devonte Bandoo
--MaCio Teague
--Jared Butler
--Davion Mitchell
to go with a front court of ...
--Tristan Clark
--Mario Kegler
--Mark Vital
--Freddie Gillespie
--Flo Thamba
--Matthew Mayer
We'll have two true point guards in Butler and Mitchell, two sharp-shooting two guards in Bandoo and Teague, the best true post player in the Big 12 in Clark and a pair of wild cards in Kegler and Mayer, who both have the skill sets to be elite players in our league with better decision-making.
This will be as deep and versatile a roster as Drew has ever had. Just need some development from the young guys, which has long been a strength of this staff.
NeonBU said:I agree with pursuing excellence, but I couldn't care less about MBB conference titles. Kansas won 14 in a row but only won the national title once in that time frame with McDonald's All-American studs every year. I care about results in the big tourney. I'd give up every conference title forever for a chance to replay the last five minutes against Duke in the Elite 8 to get in the Final Four where it counts. Let Tech and K-State enjoy their shared conference banner in a down year for Kansas. The big tourney is all that matters.Johnny Bear said:It's a weird phenomenon, but it's clear for men's bball the majority of our fans are fine with never winning conference titles (of any kind)*, always finishing third or (usually) lower in the conference, and never going to a final four, as long as we just get into the tournament most years and occasionally make the sweet 16 or even (once in a blue moon) an elite 8. We have higher aspirations for virtually all of our other sports, but for men's bball, we're fine with just about anything that's at least slightly higher than mediocrity. As far as this particular season goes, Drew does deserve a lot of credit for taking the team as far as he did given the key player injuries he had to deal with and he should be applauded for that - but at the same time, your point is well taken - there's always one or more excuses season in and season out. But again, the majority of us are just fine with that and I'm sure we'll just keep rockin' and rollin' accordingly.Aliceinbubbleland said:
Same ole same ole coming out of Waco in the basketball department. Win enough to satisfy the few fans left. It's always injuries, projects, depth or any other reason but the results are like a washing machine slogging back and forth.
This season is very typical of the last 15.
* - Before anyone posts something like "But, but, but Kansas wins all of the conference titles!!", Texas Tech and Kansas State say "hello", plus ISU has won 3 of the last 5 Big 12 men's bball Tourneys. And in 3 seasons Chris Beard has already accomplished what Drew has failed to do in 16 seasons.
I disagree with this sentiment
Further, if you aren't a factor in your conference, ever, then you are highly unlikely to make an ncaa tournament run.
bear2be2 said:We return everyone from this year's team but Mason and McClure, get Tristan Clark back from injury and welcome in transfer guards MaCio Teague (16.1 ppg; 43.7 percent from 3 in two years at UNC-Asheville) and Davion Mitchell (four-star recruit who played 17 minutes per game as a true freshman at Auburn).Prairie_Bear said:To nobody's fault but my own, I didn't watch a minute of live basketball action this year (caught about half the game's highlights) despite being a big basketball fan and playing it at an AAU/all conference level in HS. We are blessed to have Drew, IMO, but would you mind expanding on this comment you made? I don't have access to Ashley's Bball posts anymore, so I know next to nothing about who is being red-shirted, transferring, or recruited, so what makes you say that? Butler (in the highlights) looked solid, but we lose Mason (I think) and nobody else really stood out to me so we seem a world away from Acy/Jones/Carter/Dunn/Heslip/Jackson/Jefferson etc for that to be a valid comment.bear2be2 said:
we're going to have the deepest team of the Scott Drew era next season and likely will be poised to make another deep tournament run.
Any education would be appreciated, thanks.
That leaves us with an outstanding guard corps of ...
--Devonte Bandoo
--MaCio Teague
--Jared Butler
--Davion Mitchell
to go with a front court of ...
--Tristan Clark
--Mario Kegler
--Freddie Gillespie
--Flo Thamba
--Matthew Mayer
We'll have two true point guards in Butler and Mitchell, two sharp-shooting two guards in Bandoo and Teague, the best true post player in the Big 12 in Clark and a pair of wild cards in Kegler and Mayer, who both have the skill sets to be elite players in our league with better decision-making.
This will be as deep and versatile a roster as Drew has ever had. Just need some development from the young guys, which has long been a strength of this staff.
Good post. Where will we be picked to finish in conference next year and what NCAA seed
Cf. The 2014 ncaa finals between 7 seed UConn (10-8 in conference) vs. 8 seed Kentucky (12-6 in conference).bularry said:NeonBU said:I agree with pursuing excellence, but I couldn't care less about MBB conference titles. Kansas won 14 in a row but only won the national title once in that time frame with McDonald's All-American studs every year. I care about results in the big tourney. I'd give up every conference title forever for a chance to replay the last five minutes against Duke in the Elite 8 to get in the Final Four where it counts. Let Tech and K-State enjoy their shared conference banner in a down year for Kansas. The big tourney is all that matters.Johnny Bear said:It's a weird phenomenon, but it's clear for men's bball the majority of our fans are fine with never winning conference titles (of any kind)*, always finishing third or (usually) lower in the conference, and never going to a final four, as long as we just get into the tournament most years and occasionally make the sweet 16 or even (once in a blue moon) an elite 8. We have higher aspirations for virtually all of our other sports, but for men's bball, we're fine with just about anything that's at least slightly higher than mediocrity. As far as this particular season goes, Drew does deserve a lot of credit for taking the team as far as he did given the key player injuries he had to deal with and he should be applauded for that - but at the same time, your point is well taken - there's always one or more excuses season in and season out. But again, the majority of us are just fine with that and I'm sure we'll just keep rockin' and rollin' accordingly.Aliceinbubbleland said:
CSame ole same ole coming out of Waco in the basketball department. Win enough to satisfy the few fans left. It's always injuries, projects, depth or any other reason but the results are like a washing machine slogging back and forth.
This season is very typical of the last 15.
* - Before anyone posts something like "But, but, but Kansas wins all of the conference titles!!", Texas Tech and Kansas State say "hello", plus ISU has won 3 of the last 5 Big 12 men's bball Tourneys. And in 3 seasons Chris Beard has already accomplished what Drew has failed to do in 16 seasons.
I disagree with this sentiment
Further, if you aren't a factor in your conference, ever, then you are highly unlikely to make an ncaa tournament run.
Asked a West Virginia fan last night if he wanted Drew over Huggy. I m sure glad that Mountaineer had a sense of humor,
That's probably the worst example you could give to argue his point, though. I mean, first, that's the definition of highly unlikely. Second, UCONN and KENTUCKY.whitetrash said:Cf. The 2014 ncaa finals between 7 seed UConn (10-8 in conference) vs. 8 seed Kentucky (12-6 in conference).bularry said:NeonBU said:I agree with pursuing excellence, but I couldn't care less about MBB conference titles. Kansas won 14 in a row but only won the national title once in that time frame with McDonald's All-American studs every year. I care about results in the big tourney. I'd give up every conference title forever for a chance to replay the last five minutes against Duke in the Elite 8 to get in the Final Four where it counts. Let Tech and K-State enjoy their shared conference banner in a down year for Kansas. The big tourney is all that matters.Johnny Bear said:It's a weird phenomenon, but it's clear for men's bball the majority of our fans are fine with never winning conference titles (of any kind)*, always finishing third or (usually) lower in the conference, and never going to a final four, as long as we just get into the tournament most years and occasionally make the sweet 16 or even (once in a blue moon) an elite 8. We have higher aspirations for virtually all of our other sports, but for men's bball, we're fine with just about anything that's at least slightly higher than mediocrity. As far as this particular season goes, Drew does deserve a lot of credit for taking the team as far as he did given the key player injuries he had to deal with and he should be applauded for that - but at the same time, your point is well taken - there's always one or more excuses season in and season out. But again, the majority of us are just fine with that and I'm sure we'll just keep rockin' and rollin' accordingly.Aliceinbubbleland said:
CSame ole same ole coming out of Waco in the basketball department. Win enough to satisfy the few fans left. It's always injuries, projects, depth or any other reason but the results are like a washing machine slogging back and forth.
This season is very typical of the last 15.
* - Before anyone posts something like "But, but, but Kansas wins all of the conference titles!!", Texas Tech and Kansas State say "hello", plus ISU has won 3 of the last 5 Big 12 men's bball Tourneys. And in 3 seasons Chris Beard has already accomplished what Drew has failed to do in 16 seasons.
I disagree with this sentiment
Further, if you aren't a factor in your conference, ever, then you are highly unlikely to make an ncaa tournament run.
If Baylor starts racking up McD's AA's, I think we'll all let it slide if they don't win the conference but make the FF.
Good post BU Larry.We should add Mark Vital,the rebounding and dunking machine,to the frontcourt list.
Crash Davis said:For me, over the next 10 years I'd be thrilled if it looked something like this:BatonRougeBear said:
So help me out. What are the expectations. Over an X year period, what should be accomplished?
And if you're going to be vague, and say something like compete for a conference title, define what that means. Finish top 3? Just trying to see what the concrete expectations are.
-8 NCAA Tournament appearances
-Getting a good seed in at least 6-7 of those appearances (6 seed or better, preferably closer to a 3 most years).
-5-6 runs to the second weekend of the NCAA tournament
I'd take that sight unseen.
Yes, 6 sweet 16 runs in 10 years would be excellent
Sorry, that was an egregious oversight.Task Force 2015 said:
Good post BU Larry.We should add Mark Vital,the rebounding and dunking machine,to the frontcourt list.
I've edited him in.
ISU Big 12 Tourney Champs 4 of last 6. Hard to imagine.
And we've beaten them 10 of the last 12 times we've played them in the regular season. Which was more important?Aliceinbubbleland said:
ISU Big 12 Tourney Champs 4 of last 6. Hard to imagine.
I'd go with 4 outta 6 
bear2be2 said:And we've beaten them 10 of the last 12 times we've played them in the regular season. Which was more important?Aliceinbubbleland said:
ISU Big 12 Tourney Champs 4 of last 6. Hard to imagine.
Rhetorical I assume?
In a multi-bid power league, the conference tournament is virtually meaningless unless you're on the bubble or out of the tournament discussion entirely. I'd much rather win the games that actually decide whether or not you make it into the NCAA tournament field and how highly you're seeded. But that's just me.bularry said:bear2be2 said:And we've beaten them 10 of the last 12 times we've played them in the regular season. Which was more important?Aliceinbubbleland said:
ISU Big 12 Tourney Champs 4 of last 6. Hard to imagine.
Rhetorical I assume?
For all the knob-slobbing happening here with Iowa State, they've made seven NCAA tournament appearances since 2007-08 with a pair of Sweet 16's topping their March Madness resume. This will be Baylor's eighth appearance over the same period with two Elite Eights and two Sweet 16s to their credit. Again, how important were those Big 12 tournament titles really?
Give it up "X". This is BU men's bball where we get ecstatic about "almost doing it!".xiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
You be careful.Johnny Bear said:Give it up "X". This is BU men's bball where we get ecstatic about "almost doing it!".xiledinok said:
It's been a banner year for Red Raider rash.
There's going to be a banner above the court next year at the United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas with the words "2018-2019 Big 12 Men's Basketball Champions" on it. Let it sink in for a minute.
Expectations
Conference Championships
Be able to at least win a tournament game in every tournament we play.
An excellent fan experience.
NCAA tournament appearance every year.
Develop talent.
Market your program.
Consistency.
Earn the pay.
Never witnessed any real team not believing winning their league wasn't important.
The 3,000 Drew crew strong with no excitement in Waco or among students will beat you down with unrespectable nonsense stats and excuses. The tournament or Big 12 championship are not important to them.
Oh good, this thread is still a thing...
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