rudylaw said:

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Oh good, this thread is still a thing...

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Yup, welcome to the thread where having a Conference Championship is the end all, and the NCAA Tournament doesn't matter!

Bear8084 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Oh good, this thread is still a thing...

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Yup, welcome to the thread where having a Conference Championship is the end all, and the NCAA Tournament doesn't matter!

I

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Both the conference and conference tournament matters. A good seed means easier games.
This year, Jared Butler could carry us a few games. I m hoping for a seed lower than 8 or 9.

xiledinok said:

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Bear8084 said:

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rudylaw said:

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Oh good, this thread is still a thing...

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Yup, welcome to the thread where having a Conference Championship is the end all, and the NCAA Tournament doesn't matter!

I

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Both the conference and conference tournament matters. A good seed means easier games.
This year, Jared Butler could carry us a few games. I m hoping for a seed lower than 8 or 9.

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Higher seeds does mean "easier" games, though once in the NCAA Tourney these days, no game can really be easy.

We have been as high as a 3 seed without winning the Conference or Conference Tourney. Tech is slated to be a 3 seed, and KState is slated to be a 4 seed and ISU a 5 seed, all those teams have Conference hardware and have matched our highest Seed a Drew coached team has gotten. Now granted, I would have liked more wins in the Conference Tourney.

rudylaw said:

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Oh good, this thread is still a thing...

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Basketball's version of halitosis.

Baylor is a 14th seed with Mason playing PG.
Baylor is a 6th seed with Butler at PG.

My miracle moment would be Baylor at 9 winning their first game and beating Duke round 2. I don't think the NCAA will even let that happen. Too much *****ing about the last game and Duke bias.

We don't want to get blasted in the 2nd round.

bear2be2 said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is a 14th seed with Mason playing PG.
Baylor is a 6th seed with Butler at PG.

My miracle moment would be Baylor at 9 winning their first game and beating Duke round 2. I don't think the NCAA will even let that happen. Too much *****ing about the last game and Duke bias.

We don't want to get blasted in the 2nd round.

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The facts don't back this assertion ... like at all. What was our record in games where Butler played without Mason?

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He scored 31 versus Kansas. I guess it's his losses when Mason is out.
Much better team with Butler at point. A PG has to make others better.

Johnny Bear said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Same ole same ole coming out of Waco in the basketball department. Win enough to satisfy the few fans left. It's always injuries, projects, depth or any other reason but the results are like a washing machine slogging back and forth.

This season is very typical of the last 15.

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It's a weird phenomenon, but it's clear for men's bball the majority of our fans are fine with never winning conference titles (of any kind)*, always finishing third or (usually) lower in the conference, and never going to a final four, as long as we just get into the tournament most years and occasionally make the sweet 16 or even (once in a blue moon) an elite 8. We have higher aspirations for virtually all of our other sports, but for men's bball, we're fine with just about anything that's at least slightly higher than mediocrity. As far as this particular season goes, Drew does deserve a lot of credit for taking the team as far as he did given the key player injuries he had to deal with and he should be applauded for that - but at the same time, your point is well taken - there's always one or more excuses season in and season out. But again, the majority of us are just fine with that and I'm sure we'll just keep rockin' and rollin' accordingly.

* - Before anyone posts something like "But, but, but Kansas wins all of the conference titles!!", Texas Tech and Kansas State say "hello", plus ISU has won 3 of the last 5 Big 12 men's bball Tourneys. And in 3 seasons Chris Beard has already accomplished what Drew has failed to do in 16 seasons.

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So fire Drew and hire who?

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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Same ole same ole coming out of Waco in the basketball department. Win enough to satisfy the few fans left. It's always injuries, projects, depth or any other reason but the results are like a washing machine slogging back and forth.

This season is very typical of the last 15.

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It's a weird phenomenon, but it's clear for men's bball the majority of our fans are fine with never winning conference titles (of any kind)*, always finishing third or (usually) lower in the conference, and never going to a final four, as long as we just get into the tournament most years and occasionally make the sweet 16 or even (once in a blue moon) an elite 8. We have higher aspirations for virtually all of our other sports, but for men's bball, we're fine with just about anything that's at least slightly higher than mediocrity. As far as this particular season goes, Drew does deserve a lot of credit for taking the team as far as he did given the key player injuries he had to deal with and he should be applauded for that - but at the same time, your point is well taken - there's always one or more excuses season in and season out. But again, the majority of us are just fine with that and I'm sure we'll just keep rockin' and rollin' accordingly.

* - Before anyone posts something like "But, but, but Kansas wins all of the conference titles!!", Texas Tech and Kansas State say "hello", plus ISU has won 3 of the last 5 Big 12 men's bball Tourneys. And in 3 seasons Chris Beard has already accomplished what Drew has failed to do in 16 seasons.

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So fire Drew and hire who?

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Where do you see "fire Drew" in the post you're responding to? That post was intended as a comment on what is an ongoing puzzling majority attitude (to me at least) about men's bball that is different from our attitude toward other sports. I'm not advocating firing Drew, although I do also find it a bit odd that his seat isn't even the least bit warm. And if at some point in the future we did decide to correctly thank him profusely for what he did accomplish (especially taking over the ash heap of a nuked program 16 years ago) but tell him we're going in a different direction in an attempt to get past his apparent ceiling (and 16 years is more than enough time to determine what a coach's "ceiling" is) I don't accept the apparent popular notion that anyone we hire is automatically going to be a "downgrade". Yes, hiring any new coach is a risk, but I don't agree that because of our past history in men's bball and lack of fan support, yada, yada, etc., we can never hope to have a HC that could actually get us to a Final Four and/or win a conference title and more importantly, consistently field teams that are at least capable of those accomplishments. Meanwhile, IMO next season is a big one for Drew and if it's just another season of finishing fourth or lower and bowing out of the post season quickly, I don't understand why the powers that be wouldn't at least start seriously considering another option - that would have a good chance to be an upgrade.

Oldbear, Johnny thinks we've had a good sample size in regard to Drew.
Baylor pays big money these days and isn't a cripple on the athletic circuit like in the past.
The narrative that a new arena is the answer annoys the casual alumni considering Drew has had been apart of the building for half of its existence.

The fan support isn't any different than when Harry Miller was fired. The school will draw for Kansas and possibly Texas but doesn't draw great for anyone else.
The community support is the exact same. There's no bandwagon support in Waco.

Oldbear83 said:

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Johnny Bear: " I don't understand why the powers that be wouldn't at least start seriously considering another option - that would have a good chance to be an upgrade."

By that logic, Duke, Virginia, Kentucky and Kansas should all be seriously considering another option for the coach to replace the guy they have now. Only a seriously stupid critic would consider Drew's work at Baylor anything but stellar, especially given this year's spate of injuries.

This team was supposed to finish next to last in the conference, and that was before Clark went down, before Mason and McClure got hurt. Even so, Drew got a 4th place finish out of this team.

There are not many coaches who would deliver as well in that condition.

Scott Drew is going to win more games in the NCAA Tournament before he's done, and I believe he has a Big XII title or two ahead of him as well. If things line up right, he could even bring us our first National Championship in Men's Basketball, because Drew is young, well-motivated, bringing glory and success to Baylor.

I am truly sad for you, if you cannot see what we have in Drew.

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Great post. There's a reason why Drew is in all the "Best College Hoops coaches" infographics they always flash up during games. I am afraid those who don't get it will find out too late what a great coach Drew is and how blessed we are to have him. Or they will just move goal posts to continue the unwarranted and misguided criticism of Drew.

Winning conference would help him.
When he was hired, they thought he could accomplish it.
He wouldn't have been hired otherwise.
They hired Bliss to win conference.