Matthew Mayer a first rounder?

11,179 Views | 126 Replies | Last: 7 days ago by Ghostrider
Ewalker80
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Hotsauce said:

With all the newish rules about retaining eligibility, why would you not take what is essentially a free NBA evaluation? Smart, logical move for MM and any other underclassman prospect. To say that "he's gone" is a stretch...at best.

I'd say it's 70-30 on him staying. I don't see him on any of the latest mock drafts, nor do I see him on any Top 50 prospect lists.


Agree completely.
DanaDane
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Ewalker80 said:

Hotsauce said:

With all the newish rules about retaining eligibility, why would you not take what is essentially a free NBA evaluation? Smart, logical move for MM and any other underclassman prospect. To say that "he's gone" is a stretch...at best.

I'd say it's 70-30 on him staying. I don't see him on any of the latest mock drafts, nor do I see him on any Top 50 prospect lists.


Agree completely.


Has he worked out yet? That may be one of the reasons you haven't seen on the mock drafts to which you refer.
Ewalker80
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DanaDane said:

Ewalker80 said:

Hotsauce said:

With all the newish rules about retaining eligibility, why would you not take what is essentially a free NBA evaluation? Smart, logical move for MM and any other underclassman prospect. To say that "he's gone" is a stretch...at best.

I'd say it's 70-30 on him staying. I don't see him on any of the latest mock drafts, nor do I see him on any Top 50 prospect lists.


Agree completely.


Has he worked out yet? That may be one of the reasons you haven't seen on the mock drafts to which you refer.
I've seen him on a lot of mock drafts, including many mentioned on this thread. But he's usually in the 50-60 range, which according to Mayer's own words would suggest he is returning unless that changes dramatically. That's what I agree with, not the fact he's not in any mocks.
Timbear
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How many non starters in college have ever been drafted?
DanaDane
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Sorry. I didn't intend to copy you in my response. I was asking a question to the other guy who said he wasn't in any mock drafts. I honestly don't know if he's worked out. If he hasn't and eventually has a tremendous workout, whose to say he doesn't move up even higher to a point the temptation is to stay in the draft? Not likely, but there's always a chance.
Ghostrider
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Mayer's is not going first round and he will have a hard time going 1st rd next year without significant improvement.
Mitch Henessey
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Timbear said:

How many non starters in college have ever been drafted?
The #4 pick last year Patrick Williams, never started a game at Florida State. It's not super common, but it's not that unusual, either.
Ewalker80
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Ghostrider said:

Mayer's is not going first round and he will have a hard time going 1st rd next year without significant improvement.


All he needs to do is become more consistent and maintain similar efficiency as a starter and he could easily rise to first round next year. Very doable if shows typical Baylor player improvement trajectory. Also he knows all off-season that he will be the main offensive threat and this is his chance to get to nba so should be incredibly motivated. Will be featured player on returning champs so will have every opportunity to het noticed.
Greenbear
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It is hard to be realistic about Mayer on this forum. There are people who love the way he plays and others who don't really have the eye for how much he has to develop. Playing time this year was an issue for him, for no other reason than his own performance. If you watch film closely you will notice why he wasn't one of the top five players on our team, playing time wise, yet he is an NBA potential first rounder. His defense is minimal and hurt us in several big games. He is as much a liability of defense as he is an asset on offense. Second, he is disruptive on offense. When you watch the flow of Baylor's offense you will see how fast our top players moved the ball and moved without the ball to get into position to receive a pass. Mayer's game is much more one on one. He also took a lot of ill-advised shots and it wasn't just the coach upset with him sometimes.

Before anyone labels me a Mayer hater, nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of the most exciting players i have watched - totally electric, but leadership, commitment to the process and playing defense is where he must excel in the next year to reach his potential.

Jared Butler is a difficult person to compare with Mayer, but Jared made the team better by putting others first. He elevated others. He believed in the system and supported it. There is a reason that Butler and Mayer lived together. Forget his offense for a minute. There is a lot of maturity and leadership he needs to learn. Taurean Prince is a great comparison.
Ewalker80
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Greenbear said:

It is hard to be realistic about Mayer on this forum. There are people who love the way he plays and others who don't really have the eye for how much he has to develop. Playing time this year was an issue for him, for no other reason than his own performance. If you watch film closely you will notice why he wasn't one of the top five players on our team, playing time wise, yet he is an NBA potential first rounder. His defense is minimal and hurt us in several big games. He is as much a liability of defense as he is an asset on offense. Second, he is disruptive on offense. When you watch the flow of Baylor's offense you will see how fast our top players moved the ball and moved without the ball to get into position to receive a pass. Mayer's game is much more one on one. He also took a lot of ill-advised shots and it wasn't just the coach upset with him sometimes.

Before anyone labels me a Mayer hater, nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of the most exciting players i have watched - totally electric, but leadership, commitment to the process and playing defense is where he must excel in the next year to reach his potential.

Jared Butler is a difficult person to compare with Mayer, but Jared made the team better by putting others first. He elevated others. He believed in the system and supported it. There is a reason that Butler and Mayer lived together. Forget his offense for a minute. There is a lot of maturity and leadership he needs to learn. Taurean Prince is a great comparison.


Agree
chorne68
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I sure like having him on our team.
historian
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In my view, the best thing about Mayer, is his level of improvement from year to year. I don't know nearly as much about the game as most of you, but even I noticed significant changes in his play each of the past 2 years compared to before. It is definitely in his interest to have another year with the coaching staff so he could gain more self-discipline, consistency, etc.
“Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
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Adriacus Peratuun
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The issues with his game are significant.

Ball Handling: slightly below average for an NBA wing.

Decision making: D, knowing when to push & when to slow isn't in him, shot selection still has head scratching games

Defense: his lapses occur often and are bucket/foul level lapses

Solid athleticism & shooting but strangely mediocre FT%

BUCANDOIT82
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Greenbear said:

It is hard to be realistic about Mayer on this forum. There are people who love the way he plays and others who don't really have the eye for how much he has to develop. Playing time this year was an issue for him, for no other reason than his own performance. If you watch film closely you will notice why he wasn't one of the top five players on our team, playing time wise, yet he is an NBA potential first rounder. His defense is minimal and hurt us in several big games. He is as much a liability of defense as he is an asset on offense. Second, he is disruptive on offense. When you watch the flow of Baylor's offense you will see how fast our top players moved the ball and moved without the ball to get into position to receive a pass. Mayer's game is much more one on one. He also took a lot of ill-advised shots and it wasn't just the coach upset with him sometimes.

Before anyone labels me a Mayer hater, nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of the most exciting players i have watched - totally electric, but leadership, commitment to the process and playing defense is where he must excel in the next year to reach his potential.

Jared Butler is a difficult person to compare with Mayer, but Jared made the team better by putting others first. He elevated others. He believed in the system and supported it. There is a reason that Butler and Mayer lived together. Forget his offense for a minute. There is a lot of maturity and leadership he needs to learn. Taurean Prince is a great comparison.
Hater?

Only 2 players on the team had a better Box plus/minus per minute than Mayer. For those that don't know Box plus/minus is how many points your team scored vs how many points the other team scored when you were in the game. Butler had a slightly better Box plus/minus than Mayer. Mayer had a better Box plus/minus than Vital, JTT, Teague, Flagler, and Mitchell.

If you already knew Flo had the best Box/plus/minus on the team than you have better basketball eyes than I do because it stunned me when I saw the data.
Robert Wilson
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BUCANDOIT82 said:

Greenbear said:

It is hard to be realistic about Mayer on this forum. There are people who love the way he plays and others who don't really have the eye for how much he has to develop. Playing time this year was an issue for him, for no other reason than his own performance. If you watch film closely you will notice why he wasn't one of the top five players on our team, playing time wise, yet he is an NBA potential first rounder. His defense is minimal and hurt us in several big games. He is as much a liability of defense as he is an asset on offense. Second, he is disruptive on offense. When you watch the flow of Baylor's offense you will see how fast our top players moved the ball and moved without the ball to get into position to receive a pass. Mayer's game is much more one on one. He also took a lot of ill-advised shots and it wasn't just the coach upset with him sometimes.

Before anyone labels me a Mayer hater, nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of the most exciting players i have watched - totally electric, but leadership, commitment to the process and playing defense is where he must excel in the next year to reach his potential.

Jared Butler is a difficult person to compare with Mayer, but Jared made the team better by putting others first. He elevated others. He believed in the system and supported it. There is a reason that Butler and Mayer lived together. Forget his offense for a minute. There is a lot of maturity and leadership he needs to learn. Taurean Prince is a great comparison.
Hater?

Only 2 players on the team had a better Box plus/minus per minute than Mayer. For those that don't know Box plus/minus is how many points your team scored vs how many points the other team scored when you were in the game. Butler had a slightly better Box plus/minus than Mayer. Mayer had a better Box plus/minus than Vital, JTT, Teague, Flagler, and Mitchell.

If you already knew Flo had the best Box/plus/minus on the team than you have better basketball eyes than I do because it stunned me when I saw the data.
That's fascinating.

Butler - not surprising. Mayer - had a huge impact when he came in off the bench so not surprising. Thamba - never would've guessed it. He improved a great deal as the season went on, and I thought his impact around the basket on the defensive end became significant, but I never would've guessed that.
Ghostrider
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Robert Wilson said:

BUCANDOIT82 said:

Greenbear said:

It is hard to be realistic about Mayer on this forum. There are people who love the way he plays and others who don't really have the eye for how much he has to develop. Playing time this year was an issue for him, for no other reason than his own performance. If you watch film closely you will notice why he wasn't one of the top five players on our team, playing time wise, yet he is an NBA potential first rounder. His defense is minimal and hurt us in several big games. He is as much a liability of defense as he is an asset on offense. Second, he is disruptive on offense. When you watch the flow of Baylor's offense you will see how fast our top players moved the ball and moved without the ball to get into position to receive a pass. Mayer's game is much more one on one. He also took a lot of ill-advised shots and it wasn't just the coach upset with him sometimes.

Before anyone labels me a Mayer hater, nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of the most exciting players i have watched - totally electric, but leadership, commitment to the process and playing defense is where he must excel in the next year to reach his potential.

Jared Butler is a difficult person to compare with Mayer, but Jared made the team better by putting others first. He elevated others. He believed in the system and supported it. There is a reason that Butler and Mayer lived together. Forget his offense for a minute. There is a lot of maturity and leadership he needs to learn. Taurean Prince is a great comparison.
Hater?

Only 2 players on the team had a better Box plus/minus per minute than Mayer. For those that don't know Box plus/minus is how many points your team scored vs how many points the other team scored when you were in the game. Butler had a slightly better Box plus/minus than Mayer. Mayer had a better Box plus/minus than Vital, JTT, Teague, Flagler, and Mitchell.

If you already knew Flo had the best Box/plus/minus on the team than you have better basketball eyes than I do because it stunned me when I saw the data.
That's fascinating.

Butler - not surprising. Mayer - had a huge impact when he came in off the bench so not surprising. Thamba - never would've guessed it. He improved a great deal as the season went on, and I thought his impact around the basket on the defensive end became significant, but I never would've guessed that.


Not sure how much that stat means considering Butler mostly plays against the starters and Mayer doesn't.
Ewalker80
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Ghostrider said:

Robert Wilson said:

BUCANDOIT82 said:

Greenbear said:

It is hard to be realistic about Mayer on this forum. There are people who love the way he plays and others who don't really have the eye for how much he has to develop. Playing time this year was an issue for him, for no other reason than his own performance. If you watch film closely you will notice why he wasn't one of the top five players on our team, playing time wise, yet he is an NBA potential first rounder. His defense is minimal and hurt us in several big games. He is as much a liability of defense as he is an asset on offense. Second, he is disruptive on offense. When you watch the flow of Baylor's offense you will see how fast our top players moved the ball and moved without the ball to get into position to receive a pass. Mayer's game is much more one on one. He also took a lot of ill-advised shots and it wasn't just the coach upset with him sometimes.

Before anyone labels me a Mayer hater, nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of the most exciting players i have watched - totally electric, but leadership, commitment to the process and playing defense is where he must excel in the next year to reach his potential.

Jared Butler is a difficult person to compare with Mayer, but Jared made the team better by putting others first. He elevated others. He believed in the system and supported it. There is a reason that Butler and Mayer lived together. Forget his offense for a minute. There is a lot of maturity and leadership he needs to learn. Taurean Prince is a great comparison.
Hater?

Only 2 players on the team had a better Box plus/minus per minute than Mayer. For those that don't know Box plus/minus is how many points your team scored vs how many points the other team scored when you were in the game. Butler had a slightly better Box plus/minus than Mayer. Mayer had a better Box plus/minus than Vital, JTT, Teague, Flagler, and Mitchell.

If you already knew Flo had the best Box/plus/minus on the team than you have better basketball eyes than I do because it stunned me when I saw the data.
That's fascinating.

Butler - not surprising. Mayer - had a huge impact when he came in off the bench so not surprising. Thamba - never would've guessed it. He improved a great deal as the season went on, and I thought his impact around the basket on the defensive end became significant, but I never would've guessed that.


Not sure how much that stat means considering Butler mostly plays against the starters and Mayer doesn't.


Flo tended to start games and halfs when we were crushing teams with our starters and tended not to play when we had big leads and were cruising to victories. He wasn't really doing most of the crushing himself but played his role well to be sure. Not a knock on him but he happened to play a lot with the big 4 which positively influenced his stats versus players with a more distributed place in the rotation.
BUbackerinET
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Totally agree - all points.
DanaDane
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Mayer, Flagler and JTT came in almost every game at the 15 minute mark for anywhere from 3 to 6 minutes and again at the 6-8 minute mark in each half and Mayer wasn't playing against starters or most of the other teams' best players?

Very few teams had the depth we have and they kept their starters on the floor, unless in foul trouble, for most of each half.

Ewalker80
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DanaDane said:

Mayer, Flagler and JTT came in almost every game at the 15 minute mark for anywhere from 3 to 6 minutes and again at the 6-8 minute mark in each half and Mayer wasn't playing against starters or most of the other teams' best players?

Very few teams had the depth we have and they kept their starters on the floor, unless in foul trouble, for most of each half.




It's not an all or nothing proposition. Mayer played against more bench players than the starter did over the course of the season. Would be true of anyone coming off the bench. Sure many starters were still on the floor but we are discussing trends.

Besides With him the biggest risk for an nba team is that he cant maintain efficiency with more minutes, not that he can't maintain it against starters. Although starting could potentially impact his efficiency to a lesser degree.
DanaDane
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That's nothing more than a bunch of hot air.
Ghostrider
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DanaDane said:

That's nothing more than a bunch of hot air.

Ok, Mayer is just as good as Butler. You got us.
 
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