Did the team need him to take more than 2 shots? I think his unselfish play in the Championship Game shows his desire to win.historian said:
Mayer is a great player but he was not at his best in the title game. He played 16 minutes & had only 1 bucket for 2 pts, 2 RB, 1 assist & 1 steal. He was overshadowed by everybody else, even Flagler & EJ. We know he can do great things he just didn't do it in that game. I don't think that game increased his draft stock the way it did for Mitchell & Teague.
Matthew Mayer a first rounder?
17,390 Views |
128 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by Ghostrider
"Heck the ESPN announcers raves about him every game they broadcast all season."Ewalker80 said:BUCANDOIT82 said:The advice the coaches gave him was to test the waters and if you're not getting guaranteed money your best option is to come back. I agree that is the best advice to give.Ewalker80 said:
Drew interview with Rex Chapman strongly suggests drew expects him back and that if he returns he i likely to make a lot more money. I suspect that is the advice the coaches are giving and I think they believe it.
However, when workouts for teams begin and the draft combine is held in late June Mayer will be flying up draft boards. He is already better than most of the guys projected to go in the mid to late Lottery. He can shoot. He can create his own shot. He can create for others.
I don't know you can assume that. Nba scouts and even ESPN mock draft board makers know he has those skills just as much as people like us do that have watched every game he has played the last three years. I don't think he can prove much in a workout that is not already incorporated into his current status. It's not like he is at a d 3 school he is fresh off playing on the national championship game. His skills are obvious and well known. Heck the ESPN announcers raves about him every game they broadcast all season. I'm not saying he can't move up a bit based on good interviews and workouts but he has a long way to go. And hearing him speak I'm not sure he is going to blow people away like say jarred butler will. Maybe next year he'll grow in that area.
Yet, you don't see a connection to his talent and the draft.
True. I like Matt a lot but I did not see him do a whole lot in the game. Maybe my viewpoint is colored by my desire to see him return. But I honestly think he played much better in other games such as Auburn.
You put him in the same category as Cunningham... put down the pipe
BUCANDOIT82 said:"Heck the ESPN announcers raves about him every game they broadcast all season."Ewalker80 said:BUCANDOIT82 said:The advice the coaches gave him was to test the waters and if you're not getting guaranteed money your best option is to come back. I agree that is the best advice to give.Ewalker80 said:
Drew interview with Rex Chapman strongly suggests drew expects him back and that if he returns he i likely to make a lot more money. I suspect that is the advice the coaches are giving and I think they believe it.
However, when workouts for teams begin and the draft combine is held in late June Mayer will be flying up draft boards. He is already better than most of the guys projected to go in the mid to late Lottery. He can shoot. He can create his own shot. He can create for others.
I don't know you can assume that. Nba scouts and even ESPN mock draft board makers know he has those skills just as much as people like us do that have watched every game he has played the last three years. I don't think he can prove much in a workout that is not already incorporated into his current status. It's not like he is at a d 3 school he is fresh off playing on the national championship game. His skills are obvious and well known. Heck the ESPN announcers raves about him every game they broadcast all season. I'm not saying he can't move up a bit based on good interviews and workouts but he has a long way to go. And hearing him speak I'm not sure he is going to blow people away like say jarred butler will. Maybe next year he'll grow in that area.
Yet, you don't see a connection to his talent and the draft.
The point is that his skills are widely known. Thus, he is unlikely to do something in workouts that significantly changes their assessment.
Sports Illustrated (Jeremy Woo, covering NBA since 2014) has Mayer at 60. Some familiar players in the same zone are Jeremiah Robinson Earl at 55,Luka Garza at 56, Austin Reaves at 59, Sandro Mamukelashvii at 58, Kofi Cockburn 78, Macio 79. Ayo Dosnumnu at 31 (at one time considered the top guard in college basketball early last season), showing how hard it is to get into the first round with so many foreign and G league players.
Just another data point pointing towards Mayer's likely return for our back-to-back poster year (personally I vote for Mayer standing back to back with EJ on the poster).
Just another data point pointing towards Mayer's likely return for our back-to-back poster year (personally I vote for Mayer standing back to back with EJ on the poster).
BUCANDOIT82 said:
Well, well, well:
http://hoopobsession.com/HO2021NBADraft.html
Every time someone posts this one I repeat, as it says at the tops, this is some dude's "ranking" and does not even purport to be a mock draft. The guys at ESPN and si get paid to make theirs somewhat accurate and based on actual information. They have Mayer in 55-60 range. This carries no real weight.
This is a difficult thread because some have already branded people who think Mayer should return as a "Mayer hater". I don't think anything could be further from the truth.
He is an NBA talent and he could go to the NBA, but, like Jared Butler last year, he is on the fringe of real money early if he stays another year. Just a fact. Plus, he has so much improvement. Like it or not, he does not work equally hard or proficiently on both ends of the court. Want to be valued in the NBA like Davion Mitchell, he needs to become a much better defensive player. In addition, he needs to become a leader - work hard in practice, lead by example and become Drew's player.
He was an important part of the offense, last year, but there were times when he came in he was disruptive to the team with his one on one style. I saw real improvement during the tournament and am encouraged that he can reach his potential, but he needs to mature on the court some more as well. Let's see who much of a leader and player he is without Butler, Mitchell and Teague. Butler won't be in his ear, presumably, next year as he won't be his roommate. Time to fly on your own, Matt. Show us what you can do.
He is an NBA talent and he could go to the NBA, but, like Jared Butler last year, he is on the fringe of real money early if he stays another year. Just a fact. Plus, he has so much improvement. Like it or not, he does not work equally hard or proficiently on both ends of the court. Want to be valued in the NBA like Davion Mitchell, he needs to become a much better defensive player. In addition, he needs to become a leader - work hard in practice, lead by example and become Drew's player.
He was an important part of the offense, last year, but there were times when he came in he was disruptive to the team with his one on one style. I saw real improvement during the tournament and am encouraged that he can reach his potential, but he needs to mature on the court some more as well. Let's see who much of a leader and player he is without Butler, Mitchell and Teague. Butler won't be in his ear, presumably, next year as he won't be his roommate. Time to fly on your own, Matt. Show us what you can do.
historian said:
Mayer is a great player but he was not at his best in the title game. He played 16 minutes & had only 1 bucket for 2 pts, 2 RB, 1 assist & 1 steal. He was overshadowed by everybody else, even Flagler & EJ. We know he can do great things he just didn't do it in that game. I don't think that game increased his draft stock the way it did for Mitchell & Teague.
Mayer did hit the winning shot (that got us to 71). Based on that alone I'd say he had a great game.
Sorry, but that's not enough for the pros. No NBA scout will evaluate a player based upon one play, even a big one, & that was hardly the most important play of that game. Even Jalen Suggs, who will be remembered for the buzzer beater vs UCLA, will be evaluated on a variety of factors & many plays all season.
Besides, objectively a player doesn't have a great game if they score only once & don't contribute significantly in other ways. Mayer is not another Mark Vital, who is recognized as a great contributor for all the things he does besides scoring. Mayer certainly does that at times & did some great things throughout the season & the NCAA tournament, but not in the national championship game.
Besides, objectively a player doesn't have a great game if they score only once & don't contribute significantly in other ways. Mayer is not another Mark Vital, who is recognized as a great contributor for all the things he does besides scoring. Mayer certainly does that at times & did some great things throughout the season & the NCAA tournament, but not in the national championship game.
Chad Ford has Mayer in the first round in his first mock draft released yesterday. It is behind a paywall for subscribers only:
https://www.nbabigboard.com/
Ford was ESPN's NBA Draft analyst for about 15 years and has decided to go out on his own.
https://www.nbabigboard.com/
Ford was ESPN's NBA Draft analyst for about 15 years and has decided to go out on his own.
He didn't decide to "go out on his own."BUCANDOIT82 said:
Chad Ford has Mayer in the first round in his first mock draft released yesterday. It is behind a paywall for subscribers only:
https://www.nbabigboard.com/
Ford was ESPN's NBA Draft analyst for about 15 years and has decided to go out on his own.
He was fired for retroactively changing his mock drafts to make them look more accurate.
CBS sports latest player ranking has Mayer at 58. States that this is not a mock draft as doesn't take account of needs but first round mock tracks ranking fairly closely. Seems to be general consensus right now among the reputable mock draft pros Mayer is around the 50-60 range.
I watched the game again yesterday and I will say this about Mayer: his presence on the court impacted Gonzaga. They knew what he was capable of doing and although he did not do a lot of things we are used to seeing, the Zags being forced to account for that helped make it possible for others to do their thing. His role in the title game was more positive than I originally gave him credit for. However, I still think that Jonathan & Adam contributed more off the bench than he did.
historian said:
I watched the game again yesterday and I will say this about Mayer: his presence on the court impacted Gonzaga of. They knew what he was capable of doing and although he did not do a lot of things we are used to seeing, the Zags being forced to account for that helped make it possible for others to do their thing. His role in the title game was more positive than I originally gave him credit for. However, I still think that Jonathan & Adam contributed more off the bench than he did.
BINGO! If you go back and look at almost any game, every time Mayer came in the team was better. The score stretched out. When he came into the Houston game we were down 8-6...He scored 5 quick points for an 11-8 lead and the team was off to the races. We were down 6 in the second half against Villanova when he entered the game. When he left we had a 6 point lead. He was in the game when we they turned the ball over 5 times in a row and was a key contributor in causing those turnovers.
As NBA analyst John Hollinger has said "Mayer is hiding in plain sight on the best team in the country." That's from his February 25 article about 4 under covered potential first round draft picks in The Athletic.
All true and yet my point stands: Mayer was not as pivotal in that game as he was in othersincluding the rest of the tournament.
Mayer was more active & more important in the Villanova game.
Mayer was more active & more important in the Villanova game.
I really like Mayer but 1st round? I would be shocked. I think he could be a role player in the nba, but even that would be a surprise for me. I hope he makes the NBA, but see him more as an international player for awhile. He definitely should come back for one more year.
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in the NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
BUCANDOIT82 said:
Take the Championship game as an example. He scored 2 points on only 2 shots. By the time he got into the game we were up double digits and all his teammates were rolling. He allowed them to take the shots. He was a factor in all 5 other games and a huge factor in the Wisconsin and Villanova games.
Wait. Can you repeat that first sentence again..it never gets old reading that..
3 potential first round picks. Great year. Great team.
historian said:
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in th Ed NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
I think Mayer could benefit from one more season at Baylor, but there's no way he's staying two. There's nothing whatsoever to be gained leaving college as a fifth-year player at 22 or 23. That's considered old by NBA rookie standards and would hurt his stock.
If he's a first-rounder this year, he should leave. And if he's not, he should leave after next year regardless.
I agree. Heck, if he can get drafted in the second round I would go. I think the lowest NBA salary isbear2be2 said:historian said:
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in th Ed NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
I think Mayer could benefit from one more season at Baylor, but there's no way he's staying two. There's nothing whatsoever to be gained leaving college as a fifth-year player at 22 or 23. That's considered old by NBA rookie standards and would hurt his stock.
If he's a first-rounder this year, he should leave. And if he's not, he should leave after next year regardless.
$898,310.
Barring catastrophic injury, that's the floor of what he'd make in next year's draft. And his ceiling is the lottery. If he's not graded as a first-rounder, he should come back because he'll almost certainly be one next year.Ghostrider said:I agree. Heck, if he can get drafted in the second round I would go. I think the lowest NBA salary isbear2be2 said:historian said:
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in th Ed NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
I think Mayer could benefit from one more season at Baylor, but there's no way he's staying two. There's nothing whatsoever to be gained leaving college as a fifth-year player at 22 or 23. That's considered old by NBA rookie standards and would hurt his stock.
If he's a first-rounder this year, he should leave. And if he's not, he should leave after next year regardless.
$898,310.
Ghostrider said:I agree. Heck, if he can get drafted in the second round I would go. I think the lowest NBA salary isbear2be2 said:historian said:
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in th Ed NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
I think Mayer could benefit from one more season at Baylor, but there's no way he's staying two. There's nothing whatsoever to be gained leaving college as a fifth-year player at 22 or 23. That's considered old by NBA rookie standards and would hurt his stock.
If he's a first-rounder this year, he should leave. And if he's not, he should leave after next year regardless.
$898,310.
2nd round doesn't get a guaranteed contract
vanillabryce said:Ghostrider said:I agree. Heck, if he can get drafted in the second round I would go. I think the lowest NBA salary isbear2be2 said:historian said:
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in th Ed NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
I think Mayer could benefit from one more season at Baylor, but there's no way he's staying two. There's nothing whatsoever to be gained leaving college as a fifth-year player at 22 or 23. That's considered old by NBA rookie standards and would hurt his stock.
If he's a first-rounder this year, he should leave. And if he's not, he should leave after next year regardless.
$898,310.
2nd round doesn't get a guaranteed contract
Isn't it less than half that even make a team? Or is that old news?
Probably close to it. Many play overseas or G league while the NBA team still owns their rights.TechDawgMc said:vanillabryce said:Ghostrider said:I agree. Heck, if he can get drafted in the second round I would go. I think the lowest NBA salary isbear2be2 said:historian said:
If he returns for a year or two & continues to develop the way he has, then he could be a first rounder & a star in th Ed NBA. He probably has that potential. But he still has a lot of learning & maturing to do.
I think Mayer could benefit from one more season at Baylor, but there's no way he's staying two. There's nothing whatsoever to be gained leaving college as a fifth-year player at 22 or 23. That's considered old by NBA rookie standards and would hurt his stock.
If he's a first-rounder this year, he should leave. And if he's not, he should leave after next year regardless.
$898,310.
2nd round doesn't get a guaranteed contract
Isn't it less than half that even make a team? Or is that old news?
Is he staying?
I don't think he's a "wildcard," I just think he can improve by millions of dollars by refining his craft in certain areas next year in college, where his role will likely be expanded greatly!
Question, who has more steals per possession: Jared Butler, Davion Mitchell, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs, Scottie Barnes, Franz Wagner, Keon Johnson, Jaden Springer, Moses Moody, Matthew Mayer?
BUbackerinET said:
I don't think he's a "wildcard," I just think he can improve by millions of dollars by refining his craft in certain areas next year in college, where his role will likely be expanded greatly!
He can only improve his stock by millions if he's not a first-rounder this year. If he gets a first-round grade, he should go. Period.
The risk would far outweigh the limited potential for reward by staying.
Did he enter the draft? If he didn't declare for draft, he can't be drafted, can he?ScottS said:
Is he staying?
He is in the draft. A new rule was passed this week that students that are not drafted can come back and play college basketball. I assume he is gone.
Thats a bummer. If he gets drafted late second round can he come back and play or does he have to go pro?chorne68 said:
He is in the draft. A new rule was passed this week that students that are not drafted can come back and play college basketball. I assume he is gone.
July 7 is the withdrawal deadline for any players who have not signed with an agent to withdraw from the draft and return to school.
The rule allowing players to declare and not sign with an agent and retain their eligibility wasn't passed this week. It passed in 2018.
The rule allowing players to declare and not sign with an agent and retain their eligibility wasn't passed this week. It passed in 2018.
With all the newish rules about retaining eligibility, why would you not take what is essentially a free NBA evaluation? Smart, logical move for MM and any other underclassman prospect. To say that "he's gone" is a stretch...at best.
I'd say it's 70-30 on him staying. I don't see him on any of the latest mock drafts, nor do I see him on any Top 50 prospect lists.
I'd say it's 70-30 on him staying. I don't see him on any of the latest mock drafts, nor do I see him on any Top 50 prospect lists.
Featured Stories
See All
In-Depth Preview: Baylor Is Set To Host the First Official Visits for the 2025 Class
by Grayson Grundhoefer
Program Reset: Post-Spring Attrition, Transfers & Recruiting
by Colt Barber
Jeremy Roach: Scouting Baylor's Next Point Guard
by Kendall Kaut
Emptying the Notebook: Schobel and Brown Decommit, Whatley is a Bear
by Grayson Grundhoefer
What Ashtyn Hawkins Can Be for Baylor Football in 2024
by Travis Roeder