She's a hand picked no waves coach Mack loves that.
Mulkey pulls off another W
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Last: 8 hrs ago by Dcheetah
Just wondering who Baylor could have hired (besides CNC) that would've kept Baylor WBB rolling along as if CKM never left?Bobby20 said:
CNC has proven at this point that she will be incapable of building anywhere close to a perennial Top 5 ranked team......as CKM was capable of doing at little 'ol Baylor. I think that's what upsets most fans the most, that Baylor WBB will never again be what it was.
Serious question looking for serious answer
I don't feel tardy
Becky Hammon would have been a great choice. But why would Baylor have hired someone that had a fabulous resume in the NBA and now has won two WNBA Championships. Our AD can't handle strong women and Becky would not make the strict Baptist's happy. Plus she would be much more expensive than NC.
Would she have come?
Dcheetah said:
Would she have come?
Mack needed a no waves easy to deal with Coach. CNC was his ideal type coach. And the results are the results.
It's a money thing. You get what you pay for. Baylor is living that and will with CNC's recent (not necessarily earned) extension.
probably not, and its questionable if she could have sustained CKM successDcheetah said:
Would she have come?
I don't feel tardy
You can ask the same of Stanford......and Tennessee.....and UT..... La Tech....North Carolina State and any other WBB power that had a HOF elite coach retire or leave. The only school that did not endure at least 5-10 years of mediocre performance compared to where they were under their elite coach in this sport is Notre Dame. And even there they took a deep drop off (didn't make the tournament) before climbing back up relatively quickly. But ND is the biggest historic "name" in collegiate sports and lore, bar none. So, there is a caveat with it. UConn will likely be the next one added to the drop-off list when Geno retires.MrGolfguy said:Just wondering who Baylor could have hired (besides CNC) that would've kept Baylor WBB rolling along as if CKM never left?Bobby20 said:
CNC has proven at this point that she will be incapable of building anywhere close to a perennial Top 5 ranked team......as CKM was capable of doing at little 'ol Baylor. I think that's what upsets most fans the most, that Baylor WBB will never again be what it was.
Serious question looking for serious answer
It baffles me to understand why fans here should think Baylor would be any different and buck the hard facts of what happens when an elite WBB coach leaves or retires. Especially with how the situation came about. While we had a few elite level seniors left, there was really no depth behind them in either numbers or underclassmen to move into bigger roles. The recruiting cycle had already pretty much finished for that year because of the timing. The coaching change blew up our high school recruiting pipeline. The players and fans got dumped pretty hard. All of those schools I mentioned earlier had ample warning that a change was coming. We had no warning whatsoever. It is amazing we are even where we are at this point.
IMO, there is no one that could have come in that would have come in that would have kept the Baylor WBB rolling along as if Mulkey hadn't left. It just doesn't work that way, and as mentioned earlier you can go down the list to see that history bears that out. The only ones that could have even the chance of avoiding a fall-off would be for another elite NCAA WBB coach to come in, someone that was recognized as such. But outside of Staley, they were all looking at retirement soon (Tara last year) and had they left their old school to come to Baylor they should have immediately been sent to the dementia ward or be declared brain-dead. And when UT tried to replace Conradt with what was considered to be an elite coach, Goestenkors it was a disaster.
The delusion of our fan base that recruits were coming to Baylor because of the school and not the coach is palpable. But Baylor is not alone. History has shown that despite the name or success of the school (with the possible exception of ND as mentioned earlier), it is the coach in this particular sport (WBB) that is the draw and when that coach leaves that draw that brings the elite players in leaves with it
Nothing has been proven at this point, especially with parity, the portal and NIL the whole dynamic of success in this sport has been turned inside out.
Regardless of why she left, Kim has moved on and is very happy at LSU. I wish some in our fan base could do the same.
Agree completely, thats why I asked the question. Its something I realized about 5 mins after I saw CKM on the local news getting on a plane for BR the day she left. "Well, the last 20 years sure has been fun but its over now; we're never getting that again" was the thought running thru my head.blackie said:...IMO, there is no one that could have come in that would have...kept the Baylor WBB rolling along as if Mulkey hadn't left....MrGolfguy said:Just wondering who Baylor could have hired (besides CNC) that would've kept Baylor WBB rolling along as if CKM never left?Bobby20 said:
CNC has proven at this point that she will be incapable of building anywhere close to a perennial Top 5 ranked team......as CKM was capable of doing at little 'ol Baylor. I think that's what upsets most fans the most, that Baylor WBB will never again be what it was.
Serious question looking for serious answer
I don't feel tardy
What does Baylor get for the money it's paying Mack?bawitdaball said:
It's a money thing. You get what you pay for. Baylor is living that and will with CNC's recent (not necessarily earned) extension.
(Re: bolded above) And I don't think anyone that doesn't have the elite coach now will either (such a 20-year success reign). Staley will probably be around some more, but certainly Geno will be leaving, perhaps very soon and KM will not be at LSU for 20 years. Parity has just caused it to be more difficult to pool talent for the vast majority of schools to get elite status, much less maintain it, and the portal has exacerbated that. Elite players have a lot more possibilities in schools than just the handful that were there only a few years ago. And outside of Mulkey, Staley, and Geno (for not too much longer) there are no more coaches that are considered "elite" and have the record to show for it. There are coaches that may show a flash but then fade back (like the AZ coach), nobody a sure magnet to draw in recruits for an extended period.MrGolfguy said:Agree completely, thats why I asked the question. Its something I realized about 5 mins after I saw CKM on the local news getting on a plane for BR the day she left. "Well, the last 20 years sure has been fun but its over now; we're never getting that again" was the thought running thru my head.blackie said:...IMO, there is no one that could have come in that would have...kept the Baylor WBB rolling along as if Mulkey hadn't left....MrGolfguy said:Just wondering who Baylor could have hired (besides CNC) that would've kept Baylor WBB rolling along as if CKM never left?Bobby20 said:
CNC has proven at this point that she will be incapable of building anywhere close to a perennial Top 5 ranked team......as CKM was capable of doing at little 'ol Baylor. I think that's what upsets most fans the most, that Baylor WBB will never again be what it was.
Serious question looking for serious answer
I think Baylor was very lucky in hitting the timing almost as perfectly as could be. In 2005, the competition we had to beat to get to the FF was nothing like what we face today. That championship helped us get established such that as the sport blossomed and more young girls went into basketball versus feeling their only future was in soccer, we had a solid footing on which to build. And even then after 2005 we had some years that were not overwhelming Griner and Sims changed that, but even then you didn't have to beat as many good teams as you do know just to get to the second weekend. I just don't see anybody reproducing the 20-year consistency that we had unless perhaps Staley keeps coaching for the next 20 years, because when that elite or even very good coach leaves, a fall off is likely until recruits can see results from the new coach.
It's truly hard to absorb (for you too) just how huge Baylor WBB would be -- IF -- CKM had tolerated Mack's ego just a little longer and seen NIL/Portalguise kick in. And with a new arena......Wow. HUGE swing and miss Mack........again.blackie said:You can ask the same of Stanford......and Tennessee.....and UT..... La Tech....North Carolina State and any other WBB power that had a HOF elite coach retire or leave. The only school that did not endure at least 5-10 years of mediocre performance compared to where they were under their elite coach in this sport is Notre Dame. And even there they took a deep drop off (didn't make the tournament) before climbing back up relatively quickly. But ND is the biggest historic "name" in collegiate sports and lore, bar none. So, there is a caveat with it. UConn will likely be the next one added to the drop-off list when Geno retires.MrGolfguy said:Just wondering who Baylor could have hired (besides CNC) that would've kept Baylor WBB rolling along as if CKM never left?Bobby20 said:
CNC has proven at this point that she will be incapable of building anywhere close to a perennial Top 5 ranked team......as CKM was capable of doing at little 'ol Baylor. I think that's what upsets most fans the most, that Baylor WBB will never again be what it was.
Serious question looking for serious answer
It baffles me to understand why fans here should think Baylor would be any different and buck the hard facts of what happens when an elite WBB coach leaves or retires. Especially with how the situation came about. While we had a few elite level seniors left, there was really no depth behind them in either numbers or underclassmen to move into bigger roles. The recruiting cycle had already pretty much finished for that year because of the timing. The coaching change blew up our high school recruiting pipeline. The players and fans got dumped pretty hard. All of those schools I mentioned earlier had ample warning that a change was coming. We had no warning whatsoever. It is amazing we are even where we are at this point.
IMO, there is no one that could have come in that would have come in that would have kept the Baylor WBB rolling along as if Mulkey hadn't left. It just doesn't work that way, and as mentioned earlier you can go down the list to see that history bears that out. The only ones that could have even the chance of avoiding a fall-off would be for another elite NCAA WBB coach to come in, someone that was recognized as such. But outside of Staley, they were all looking at retirement soon (Tara last year) and had they left their old school to come to Baylor they should have immediately been sent to the dementia ward or be declared brain-dead. And when UT tried to replace Conradt with what was considered to be an elite coach, Goestenkors it was a disaster.
The delusion of our fan base that recruits were coming to Baylor because of the school and not the coach is palpable. But Baylor is not alone. History has shown that despite the name or success of the school (with the possible exception of ND as mentioned earlier), it is the coach in this particular sport (WBB) that is the draw and when that coach leaves that draw that brings the elite players in leaves with it
Nothing has been proven at this point, especially with parity, the portal and NIL the whole dynamic of success in this sport has been turned inside out.
LSU's getting what us Baylor fans deserved..........
Don't get me wrong, I do love Coach N, what she brings to Baylor, her demeanor, her likeable personality. BUT she is not an elite coach like SC, LSU, Uconn. To be considered in the top 5 elite coach, you need to have a certain ego, certain attitude, aggressive recruiter, do whatever it takes to win a natty. Let's be honest, Coach N is not in that category. We are not getting top 10/15 recruits nor top transfers. So we may have to "settle" and be happy to be unranked some years and top 25 some years. Unless things change dramatically with recruiting, we don't have enough top talent to win a natty. If we can get to sweet 16/elite 8 every year, that would be considered a success with the level of talent we have. There's going to be some people on this board who will be upset reading this, but unfortunately that's where we are. I have experienced and seen the highs and lows of Baylor WBB the past 26-27 years.
There are 3 "elite" coaches today that have records behind them that cause them to be considered elite. Two of them (Mulkey and Auriemma) are over or well over 60. Both have had health scares. Likely meaning that in 5 to 10 years or less there will be one still active (Staley). Because of the parity (and in some cases, NIL) we now have in the game (which these coaches along with Summitt, Vandeveer, McGraw, etc. never really had to face at the current level as they were building their legacy), I just don't see any coach not already there reaching these heights any time soon.BearTiger said:
Don't get me wrong, I do love Coach N, what she brings to Baylor, her demeanor, her likeable personality. BUT she is not an elite coach like SC, LSU, Uconn. To be considered in the top 5 elite coach, you need to have a certain ego, certain attitude, aggressive recruiter, do whatever it takes to win a natty. Let's be honest, Coach N is not in that category. We are not getting top 10/15 recruits nor top transfers. So we may have to "settle" and be happy to be unranked some years and top 25 some years. Unless things change dramatically with recruiting, we don't have enough top talent to win a natty. If we can get to sweet 16/elite 8 every year, that would be considered a success with the level of talent we have. There's going to be some people on this board who will be upset reading this, but unfortunately that's where we are. I have experienced and seen the highs and lows of Baylor WBB the past 26-27 years.
We have seen some who look like they might do so and then fall back after their franchise player moved on. It is just so much harder to win consistently at a high level if you are not one of the three named above that are still active because you don't have the elite record to prop up your recruiting. So, I think you could apply your same narrative to just about any team and coach right now not called SC, LSU and UConn. Tennessee has struggled for years without Pat and Stanford has relatively sunk like a rock without Tara.
I believe it just gets back to the coach, not the school for this sport. And we have yet to see if the portal and NIL will ever allow any coach to remain consistent at the highest level to achieve "elite" status, if you call elite multiple national championships. It is getting harder and harder just to win your own conference even if you have most of your conference-winning team from last season returning.
As widely predicted, NIL is all but eliminating the college athletics we knew and loved. These kids are going to go wherever the largest paycheck now leads them; like mini-pros. But unfortunately 99.5% of them will never realize a real, professional career in their sport of choice.
Our prayer should be that as many as possible see their young talent as a huge leveraging opportunity to grow and earn a college degree(s) in the area(s) of their passion(s) and set themselves up for long-term success in the (real) adult working world. Their high school talents will not carry them to lifelong financial support.
Sic'em
Our prayer should be that as many as possible see their young talent as a huge leveraging opportunity to grow and earn a college degree(s) in the area(s) of their passion(s) and set themselves up for long-term success in the (real) adult working world. Their high school talents will not carry them to lifelong financial support.
Sic'em
In this time of NIL and the portal you are not going to see ANY coach reach the status of Elite like Kim and Geno. College basketball has drastically changed since they started their careers. Players stayed at one school for 4 years and there were a small number of teams that dominated. The competition was not near as strong as it is today.
If Kim and Geno were starting their coaching careers now, they would be excellent coaches but they would not have the success they previously had. Under the current basketball landscape, I just do not see any younger coach reaching the "elite" level.
If Kim and Geno were starting their coaching careers now, they would be excellent coaches but they would not have the success they previously had. Under the current basketball landscape, I just do not see any younger coach reaching the "elite" level.
57Bear said:What does Baylor get for the money it's paying Mack?bawitdaball said:
It's a money thing. You get what you pay for. Baylor is living that and will with CNC's recent (not necessarily earned) extension.
Not much
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She's an alpha that's for damn sure. As competitive a player and coach as you will ever find. A winner at every level as a player and as a coach. For those that really didn't care about our WBB program they are glad she is gone and for those that enjoyed winning Big 12 titles and being in the hunt for NC's every year it was tough to see her go. She might be hard to deal with, sometimes almost impossible to deal with, but that Lady is a fighter and a damn winner thru and thru.
You summed her up better than a 300 page biography. But listen to what you wrote: "impossible to deal with." That is the problem.
Not a problem" for us any more since Kim is no longer here. We now have a coach that's the opposite of Kim, likeable personality, doesn't make waves, and doesn't initimidate the AD. As long as they get along and she has winning records, the AD will keep her.
Let's look at the entire last sentence of the poster Baylor 1984, not take out just what's suitable to your opinion. I am not a Nicki hater, she's a very nice person, just not a coach that will potentially win a Championship at Baylor. It's obvious that she is not getting the financial help that big state universities can and do provide to sports other than football.
How do you know this so matter of fact-ly?DFW Bill said:
....I am not a Nicki hater, she's a very nice person, just not a coach that will potentially win a Championship at Baylor....
I don't feel tardy
Yall have to realize, as soon as the AZ coach turned us down due to being outbid, the hopes of keeping WBB a priority went out the window.
Although, she hasn't been the best over the past few years, she had momentum and would've worked wonders here at BU.
NC was the low risk, high reward pick. It was never the right move, her staff moves were below average, outside of Chloe (who put her foot in the door of many recruits).
She is going to have to earn her respect as a coach amongst the donors, and Mack/Linda.
Although, she hasn't been the best over the past few years, she had momentum and would've worked wonders here at BU.
NC was the low risk, high reward pick. It was never the right move, her staff moves were below average, outside of Chloe (who put her foot in the door of many recruits).
She is going to have to earn her respect as a coach amongst the donors, and Mack/Linda.
She's never won a championship at any level both as a player or coach. Pretty good odds she isn't going to do it here and the farther she gets away from all those big 12 titles that were won in a row and those NC's that were won the harder it will be. Rooting for CNC like hell but I'm also a realist as well. Unless she can get some big donors on her side who are willing to shell out big NIL dollars it isn't going to happen.
First, I was asking DFW Bill who made the statement in question.baylor1984 said:
She's never won a championship at any level both as a player or coach.
Second, Coach Nicki won the Big 12 the first year she was here (with half a team as I recall).
I don't feel tardy
I'm talking National Championships not Conference and all the major players, Liz, Queen, etc. were Kim's players. Win one now and it will be CNCs as all but Sarah was brought here by CNC.
I do. not see how Aida Barnes would have worked wonders at Baylor. Her momentum brought her seasons of 8, 10 and 16 losses at Arizona in years after Nicki was hired. She had one breakout season at Arizona and that was it.
It's my opinion.MrGolfguy said:How do you know this so matter of fact-ly?DFW Bill said:
....I am not a Nicki hater, she's a very nice person, just not a coach that will potentially win a Championship at Baylor....
Kim often said during her 21 years at Baylor, "they didn't hire me to win games, they hired me to win Championships." She did a decent job of doing that.
For me the key in fredbear's post, last sentence, is "almost impossible to deal with". Maybe she was "impossible"? Thats up to individual perspectives.More likely admins like the AD declined to ride the bronc that was Kim and cut losses by not mediating with the parties affected by her personality. Optics suggest BU decided that the cost of being "elite" in women's BB wasn't worth it, rather than find out at what cost that could be maintained going forward. That separation was over multiple issues largely due to collective egos.
We were going to pay her top dollar, meaning we would've been more willing to open up the checkbook with her more than we will ever do with NC.
There are many other reasons I felt like she was a better fit, but it doesn't matter much anyways. Next season is looking very ehhhh.
NC is here, hopefully next offseason she gets more serious with recruiting and building a better staff.
There are many other reasons I felt like she was a better fit, but it doesn't matter much anyways. Next season is looking very ehhhh.
NC is here, hopefully next offseason she gets more serious with recruiting and building a better staff.
Way to move the goalposts; and the "not her players" excuse is the stupidest thing ever. Nicki was coaching....SMHbaylor1984 said:
I'm talking National Championships not Conference and all the major players, Liz, Queen, etc. were Kim's players.
I don't feel tardy
People also forget Asberry and Lewis were recruited to Baylor as transfers too.
DFW Bill said:
Let's look at the entire last sentence of the poster Baylor 1984, not take out just what's suitable to your opinion. I am not a Nicki hater, she's a very nice person, just not a coach that will potentially win a Championship at Baylor. It's obvious that she is not getting the financial help that big state universities can and do provide to sports other than football.
DFWBill is right.
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