Why is Kim Mulkey a much better coach than Nicki? Nicki seems so so nice and knowledgeable?? Kim comes across as aggressive and emotional. Do players respond better to a coach's demeanor? Is Nicki not a good recruiter?
Kim Mulkey vs Nicki Collen
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Last: 2 days ago by IowaBear
Kim knows the college game better than any coach in America outside of Geno.
Nikki knows the pro game and tries to run pro concepts with college players.
Kim whines and cries more - which works in college more than it does in the pros.
Both are great coaches. One is at Baylor. The other chose to leave Baylor.
I will pull for whoever is coaching Baylor.
Coaches used to recruit. $$ now is the biggest recruiting factor. LSU contributes a lot of money to women's basketball. Baylor, not so much
Nikki knows the pro game and tries to run pro concepts with college players.
Kim whines and cries more - which works in college more than it does in the pros.
Both are great coaches. One is at Baylor. The other chose to leave Baylor.
I will pull for whoever is coaching Baylor.
Coaches used to recruit. $$ now is the biggest recruiting factor. LSU contributes a lot of money to women's basketball. Baylor, not so much
I'm glad you brought up this question because, strangely, it has never been discussed on this board over the past four years.
I'm not quite as dumb as I seem
Post of the year :-)MrGolfguy said:
Yes. A picture is worth a 1,000 words !!!blackie said:Post of the year :-)MrGolfguy said:
Mulkey is a legend in WBB.
Nobody doubts it. But if you are going to compare current coaches (based on records) who have not even been coaching as long or in the time periods when those legends evolved it is apples to oranges. The KM comparison should be between her and the only other 2 elite coaches still active (Geno and Dawn). No other coach in the country can compare on records because none of them have 3 or more championships (actually no one has 2).........and in my opinion no one outside of these three ever will because it is so much harder today because of the parity that has developed in the sport.Yogi said:
Mulkey is a legend in WBB.
The thread was started for one reason....to cut down CNC. It serves no other purpose. Our program got blown up when KM decided to leave and her team got thrown under the bus in the process. If you want to make comparisons, compare CNC to the coaches that immediately took over TN, TX, TT, NC, GA, and now Stanford in how the program fared after their long-time legend or near-legend coach left. We have fared certainly no worse and arguably better than any of those programs in the immediate aftermath of those departures. And they all got advance notice the coach was leaving. We got dumped.
Honest question, if winning titles in todays game is so much harder than before why do the same teams still win them?
I don't disagree that there's more parity. But imo the amount of parity is overblown. Each and every year there's 5-6 teams tops who are actual threats to win the title. That really hasn't changed yet at least
I don't disagree that there's more parity. But imo the amount of parity is overblown. Each and every year there's 5-6 teams tops who are actual threats to win the title. That really hasn't changed yet at least
I think it is the holdover of where things were just a very few years ago for a few of those. The three recognized elite coaches are going to get the creme of the crop, at least enough to field a fairly deep team., especially where they are at, but outside of Staley, the other two are on the clock because of age and health scares. I don't think had KM stayed at Baylor, we were going to win another one with her here. The trajectory just didn't seem to be there for me. For the 2021-2022 season we were going to be relying more on transfers than we had been, and frankly, the transfers were not all that impressive as they had been. Don't read me wrong. I think we would have had a great team, but looking toward SC and its ilk, I don't think we could have gotten over the hump. I also think we would still be at a disadvantage if a top-end recruit's ultimate decision was based on NIL.IowaBear said:
Honest question, if winning titles in todays game is so much harder than before why do the same teams still win them?
I don't disagree that there's more parity. But imo the amount of parity is overblown. Each and every year there's 5-6 teams tops who are actual threats to win the title. That really hasn't changed yet at least
I think where the parity is starting to show up is by looking at the teams getting to the FF, and especially E8 I don't disagree with you on the 5-6 team statement, but once you get past LSU, UConn and SC (elite coaches) the names change more than in the past. And they change a lot because a team has a multi-year star. So a team may rise dramatically and be in the mix for a few years, but then they drop considerably when that star is gone, allowing somebody else to move up. The Iowa and Caitlin Clark story is a perfect example. Before her, Iowa was OK, but nothing special. I think we beat them one year in the SS, but with Clark, they were a threat. Now Clark is gone and Creme has Iowa as a last-4 in. UCLA and USC were not consistently in the conversations until the last couple of years.
I just think the parity is proven out by the difficulty of teams to get just to the E8. Even the "big-3" I mentioned above don't get gimmes any more. You just have to play teams earlier in the tournament that while they may not be as good as you, but on a given game can beat you. I don't think that was ever so much the case in the past. You used to not have to play those teams until the E8. I think our 2005 team is a perfect example. No one will ever convince me that if that exact team played today they would even get to the FF. We (and everyone else) see levels of competition now that can knock you off earlier in the tournament because we are not as good and others are not as average.
I've said this before. I think the next elite coach if you only base it on having multiple national championships won is just not there. I would be highly surprised to see any coach that has not already won a national championship to win another and certainly not 3. It might happen, but I think that would be an exception. There are just too many potential speed bumps in the road to get that opportunity, that in the past were basically just warn-up games in the tournament. Now conferences are seeing parity that wasn't there before. Look at our conference. Look at the SEC with Vanderbilt, for example.
It will be interesting to see how NIL plays into this and how the house resolution affects that. I do believe if you think you can buy a championship, the opportunity is there with NIL if you have enough money, but even then I think there is a gamble that even with a roster no one can match on paper, you are not guaranteed a NC because there are enough really good teams you now have to beat to just get to the final that one bad day when you can't hit the ocean or your star is sitting on the bench with foul trouble or some other situation is more likely to occur than ever before and your opponent is good enough to take advantage of that situation.
I apologize for my answer being so long.
No need to apologize for the long post. I actually enjoy them. Brings more context to your thoughts/opinions
Overall I do tend to agree with most of your thoughts. The 2nd rd imo is where we're now starting to see some parity form. This is leading to new S16 matchups. Last years BU/USC game is a good example
Overall I do tend to agree with most of your thoughts. The 2nd rd imo is where we're now starting to see some parity form. This is leading to new S16 matchups. Last years BU/USC game is a good example
blackie said:Nobody doubts it. But if you are going to compare current coaches (based on records) who have not even been coaching as long or in the time periods when those legends evolved it is apples to oranges. The KM comparison should be between her and the only other 2 elite coaches still active (Geno and Dawn). No other coach in the country can compare on records because none of them have 3 or more championships (actually no one has 2).........and in my opinion no one outside of these three ever will because it is so much harder today because of the parity that has developed in the sport.Yogi said:
I agree this post was created to cut down. CNC. Most Baylor fans will not admit that Mulkey did everything she could to destroy Baylor on the way out. I will not argue that point anymore, if you don't believe it that's ok you have your opinion, I have mine. I just wish people would move on from Mulkey, she left so who cares what she does now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I back CNC and to be honest she is much better for the players and program than the clown that is at lsu now.
The thread was started for one reason....to cut down CNC. It serves no other purpose. Our program got blown up when KM decided to leave and her team got thrown under the bus in the process. If you want to make comparisons, compare CNC to the coaches that immediately took over TN, TX, TT, NC, GA, and now Stanford in how the program fared after their long-time legend or near-legend coach left. We have fared certainly no worse and arguably better than any of those programs in the immediate aftermath of those departures. And they all got advance notice the coach was leaving. We got dumped.
BearBall said:
Why is Kim Mulkey a much better coach than Nicki? Nicki seems so so nice and knowledgeable?? Kim comes across as aggressive and emotional. Do players respond better to a coach's demeanor? Is Nicki not a good recruiter?
Pointless argument. Mack & Linda ran off the best coach Baylor ever had. Guess Mack's ego was bigger than Kim's.
No one cares about Kim anymore. This is a Baylor site not Lsu...
joseywales said:
No one cares about Kim anymore. This is a Baylor site not Lsu...
some of us do . . .
Coach Kim was family for a long, long time. She will always be in my mind.
The way Seimone Augustus keeps her hands held out after Kim Mulkey smacked the clipboard pic.twitter.com/8CmqUGuP50
— Tyler DeLuca (@TylerDeLuca) January 31, 2025
I loved that she beat the Oklahoma team yesterday. Fun game to watch!
Did even of you see the quote from KM that SC has 10 McDonald's All-Americans on its team? Crazy...
Did even of you see the quote from KM that SC has 10 McDonald's All-Americans on its team? Crazy...
Her way of easing the pain.
Easing what pain exactly?
pluce very clearly loves Mulkey as evidenced by their most recent posts being in the Thug Ball thread from a year ago
IowaBear said:
Easing what pain exactly?
LSU was up by only 22, intolerable. Wonder what she did when Soonerettes came back and it was 100-101?
Looks like she took a TO to draw up a 3 for Williams to seal it.
Last night was a great night of woman's ball. Kentucky/Bama was good. KSU/ISU was a burner. Mizzou game Texas a fight in Austin
Last night was a great night of woman's ball. Kentucky/Bama was good. KSU/ISU was a burner. Mizzou game Texas a fight in Austin
You can add SMU-Louisville to that mix as well. Louisville was up 14 early 4th then SMU had one player score 17 straight points to take the lead late, but they faltered on their last 2 possessions and couldn't get decent shots in the last minute to lose by 5.IowaBear said:
Looks like she took a TO to draw up a 3 for Williams to seal it.
Last night was a great night of woman's ball. Kentucky/Bama was good. KSU/ISU was a burner. Mizzou game Texas a fight in Austin
BearBall said:
Why is Kim Mulkey a much better coach than Nicki?
I will say I have never seen Nicki slap a clipboard out of an Assistant's hand. That did not show well for Mulkey in my opinion. Did she apologize?
4EveraBear said:
I will say I have never seen Nicki slap a clipboard out of an Assistant's hand. That did not show well for Mulkey in my opinion. Did she apologize?
I saw in an article today she got T'd up, too--apparently ref didn't like her pointing at the scoreboard at some point.
OU coach got T'd up as well. Gsme was poorly officiated both ways. Calling over 50 fouls in a game is just ridiculous at any level
Some of our games, I wish they had called more. Poor officiating from the fouls perspective goes both ways....too many and too few.IowaBear said:
OU coach got T'd up as well. Gsme was poorly officiated both ways. Calling over 50 fouls in a game is just ridiculous at any level
We watched the game, it was one of the worst officiating on both sides, they didn't have control. The pushing/shoving was not fighting and didn't warrant 2 ejections, technicals yes but not ejections. It was a very physical game both sides. It was entertaining except for poor officiating. I like the Oklahoma coach, good recruiter, and articulate. She will have good teams to compete in the SEC. Don't think she will win the SEC but will be in the top 4-5 teams.
In my opinion pushing a player down to the floor after a play warrants an ejection.
This pan to Kim Mulkey is some of the best camera work I’ve ever seen pic.twitter.com/JhzMR1PBmU
— Bri Lewerke (@brilewerke) February 23, 2025
When she was at BU and we had a bad first half, we'd always joke the locker room would need to be repainted. I'm sure that locker room at KY is having work done today! Quite the comeback.
Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to. ~ Mark Twain
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but things change and good coaches adapt to change and continue on. I think CNC is sort of at a pivotal point in her career at BU. She's done a pretty good job all things considered, and I think she has a shot a putting BU back at the top (provided we can find some $$). I like her and wish her the best. She's done a good job with this current team. I think you're wrong about CKM, if she had stayed here. She's the type that wins wherever she goes. She knows how to maintain a winning program, and how to build one (LSU and BU). Call it what you want, but it's not luck. She took over an LSU program that was down, built it up, and turned it around in one year with a National Championship. There may be no other coach who can do that. To imply the teams she would have put together at BU would have been lack luster is simply ignoring the obvious about her abilities solely because you don't like her. Give CNC her due, and give CKM her due.blackie said:I think it is the holdover of where things were just a very few years ago for a few of those. The three recognized elite coaches are going to get the creme of the crop, at least enough to field a fairly deep team., especially where they are at, but outside of Staley, the other two are on the clock because of age and health scares. I don't think had KM stayed at Baylor, we were going to win another one with her here. The trajectory just didn't seem to be there for me. For the 2021-2022 season we were going to be relying more on transfers than we had been, and frankly, the transfers were not all that impressive as they had been. Don't read me wrong. I think we would have had a great team, but looking toward SC and its ilk, I don't think we could have gotten over the hump. I also think we would still be at a disadvantage if a top-end recruit's ultimate decision was based on NIL.IowaBear said:
Honest question, if winning titles in todays game is so much harder than before why do the same teams still win them?
I don't disagree that there's more parity. But imo the amount of parity is overblown. Each and every year there's 5-6 teams tops who are actual threats to win the title. That really hasn't changed yet at least
I think where the parity is starting to show up is by looking at the teams getting to the FF, and especially E8 I don't disagree with you on the 5-6 team statement, but once you get past LSU, UConn and SC (elite coaches) the names change more than in the past. And they change a lot because a team has a multi-year star. So a team may rise dramatically and be in the mix for a few years, but then they drop considerably when that star is gone, allowing somebody else to move up. The Iowa and Caitlin Clark story is a perfect example. Before her, Iowa was OK, but nothing special. I think we beat them one year in the SS, but with Clark, they were a threat. Now Clark is gone and Creme has Iowa as a last-4 in. UCLA and USC were not consistently in the conversations until the last couple of years.
I just think the parity is proven out by the difficulty of teams to get just to the E8. Even the "big-3" I mentioned above don't get gimmes any more. You just have to play teams earlier in the tournament that while they may not be as good as you, but on a given game can beat you. I don't think that was ever so much the case in the past. You used to not have to play those teams until the E8. I think our 2005 team is a perfect example. No one will ever convince me that if that exact team played today they would even get to the FF. We (and everyone else) see levels of competition now that can knock you off earlier in the tournament because we are not as good and others are not as average.
I've said this before. I think the next elite coach if you only base it on having multiple national championships won is just not there. I would be highly surprised to see any coach that has not already won a national championship to win another and certainly not 3. It might happen, but I think that would be an exception. There are just too many potential speed bumps in the road to get that opportunity, that in the past were basically just warn-up games in the tournament. Now conferences are seeing parity that wasn't there before. Look at our conference. Look at the SEC with Vanderbilt, for example.
It will be interesting to see how NIL plays into this and how the house resolution affects that. I do believe if you think you can buy a championship, the opportunity is there with NIL if you have enough money, but even then I think there is a gamble that even with a roster no one can match on paper, you are not guaranteed a NC because there are enough really good teams you now have to beat to just get to the final that one bad day when you can't hit the ocean or your star is sitting on the bench with foul trouble or some other situation is more likely to occur than ever before and your opponent is good enough to take advantage of that situation.
I apologize for my answer being so long.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TS, I still have KM's bobblehead on my shelf. Saying I don't like KM is far from the truth. However, I do look at reality. Our last couple of recruiting classes under her only had 3 HS recruits. We were relying on transfers more and more and some of them were not awe inspiring. I primarily think of the Carr sisters as an example. She left before the transfer portal got going. The reason I do not believe that somehow had she stayed Baylor we would be seeing the success she has had at LSU are the same things that may be holding back the current coach. You said it yourself that $$ may be a factor (NIL) and perhaps the biggest one now, we are not in the SEC or B1G and because of UT and OU leaving we are only considered the 4th best conference.TexasScientist said:I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but things change and good coaches adapt to change and continue on. I think CNC is sort of at a pivotal point in her career at BU. She's done a pretty good job all things considered, and I think she has a shot a putting BU back at the top (provided we can find some $$). I like her and wish her the best. She's done a good job with this current team. I think you're wrong about CKM, if she had stayed here. She's the type that wins wherever she goes. She knows how to maintain a winning program, and how to build one (LSU and BU). Call it what you want, but it's not luck. She took over an LSU program that was down, built it up, and turned it around in one year with a National Championship. There may be no other coach who can do that. To imply the teams she would have put together at BU would have been lack luster is simply ignoring the obvious about her abilities solely because you don't like her. Give CNC her due, and give CKM her due.blackie said:I think it is the holdover of where things were just a very few years ago for a few of those. The three recognized elite coaches are going to get the creme of the crop, at least enough to field a fairly deep team., especially where they are at, but outside of Staley, the other two are on the clock because of age and health scares. I don't think had KM stayed at Baylor, we were going to win another one with her here. The trajectory just didn't seem to be there for me. For the 2021-2022 season we were going to be relying more on transfers than we had been, and frankly, the transfers were not all that impressive as they had been. Don't read me wrong. I think we would have had a great team, but looking toward SC and its ilk, I don't think we could have gotten over the hump. I also think we would still be at a disadvantage if a top-end recruit's ultimate decision was based on NIL.IowaBear said:
Honest question, if winning titles in todays game is so much harder than before why do the same teams still win them?
I don't disagree that there's more parity. But imo the amount of parity is overblown. Each and every year there's 5-6 teams tops who are actual threats to win the title. That really hasn't changed yet at least
I think where the parity is starting to show up is by looking at the teams getting to the FF, and especially E8 I don't disagree with you on the 5-6 team statement, but once you get past LSU, UConn and SC (elite coaches) the names change more than in the past. And they change a lot because a team has a multi-year star. So a team may rise dramatically and be in the mix for a few years, but then they drop considerably when that star is gone, allowing somebody else to move up. The Iowa and Caitlin Clark story is a perfect example. Before her, Iowa was OK, but nothing special. I think we beat them one year in the SS, but with Clark, they were a threat. Now Clark is gone and Creme has Iowa as a last-4 in. UCLA and USC were not consistently in the conversations until the last couple of years.
I just think the parity is proven out by the difficulty of teams to get just to the E8. Even the "big-3" I mentioned above don't get gimmes any more. You just have to play teams earlier in the tournament that while they may not be as good as you, but on a given game can beat you. I don't think that was ever so much the case in the past. You used to not have to play those teams until the E8. I think our 2005 team is a perfect example. No one will ever convince me that if that exact team played today they would even get to the FF. We (and everyone else) see levels of competition now that can knock you off earlier in the tournament because we are not as good and others are not as average.
I've said this before. I think the next elite coach if you only base it on having multiple national championships won is just not there. I would be highly surprised to see any coach that has not already won a national championship to win another and certainly not 3. It might happen, but I think that would be an exception. There are just too many potential speed bumps in the road to get that opportunity, that in the past were basically just warn-up games in the tournament. Now conferences are seeing parity that wasn't there before. Look at our conference. Look at the SEC with Vanderbilt, for example.
It will be interesting to see how NIL plays into this and how the house resolution affects that. I do believe if you think you can buy a championship, the opportunity is there with NIL if you have enough money, but even then I think there is a gamble that even with a roster no one can match on paper, you are not guaranteed a NC because there are enough really good teams you now have to beat to just get to the final that one bad day when you can't hit the ocean or your star is sitting on the bench with foul trouble or some other situation is more likely to occur than ever before and your opponent is good enough to take advantage of that situation.
I apologize for my answer being so long.
I never wanted her to leave, but I always knew that it had to happen either because of retirement or from health (which she has had scares a few times recently). And I didn't think it would be too far down the road. Going to LSU may extend that a little longer because it rejuvenated her. Whenever she left we were going to be hurt. Every elite team has taken a hit when their elite coach left. Latest example is Stanford who is not in the tournament bracketology right now. Because of the timing this hurt more than it should have.
There are only 3 coaches that could have turned LSU around in such a manner....KM, Geno, and Dawn. The elite go to schools because of the coach, more so than the name on the front of the jersey (ND may be the lone exception to that because of the overall aura and mystique of the school). We were always destined to take a hit when KM left. It happened sooner rather than later and in a manner that essentially threw our program under the bus and left what team we had in danger of getting pilfered by other teams, including LSU.
Of course we'll never know what would have happened with the NIL era had KM stayed here, but as I said earlier she would have had some of the same factors working against her as does CNC, and go back and look at the roster we would have been left with for that next year after Smith and Egbo would have been gone. It was not up to the standards we had grown accustomed to, and the only recruit we had signed (Dauda) was trying to get out of her NLI even before Kim left. The environment during the time that KM built Baylor is not the environment of today. NIL, parity, and further diminishment of the Big XII's perceived strength (even weaker than it had been when we were running over people) because UT and OU are no longer here. KM might or might not have done better than where we are today, but I don't think it is realistic to think that she could do at Baylor what she is now being able to do at LSU. Thanks for your opinion. I've stated why I think as I do.
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