RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Riot stemming from demonstration that got out of control. One of the stupidest stunts in US history, totally legitimized the anti-Trump groups. Anyone going in when told not to enter or broke in should be arrested. Insurrection? No way. It was a mob with no end game of political control or take over, geez they were taking selfies. Destruction of property, trespassing, fine. Track them down, no problem. You can't have that and do nothing. Insurrection and sedition, no way. Just a group of idiots that did more harm than good.

---

Did you read the 84 page indictment?

---

No, I didn't. I am only going by what I saw and watched. I am sure there is much more than what I know. I haven't really researched. Sorry, if that is offensive, but the whole crowd seemed goofy and not at all professional in the way they went about it. It was hard to take serious as a true insurrection or coup attempt based on the live feed. It was more like a bunch of people just wanting to set up photo ops and leaving messages that would have no actual impact.

I will say this, that day had the same surreal feel as 9/11 and the beginning of the Gulf War (not saying it was worse or even the same or as grave as either, only it had that same surreal quality do it. Not a value judgement.) I do not know if others feel, it is more of a feeling than a thought, that way. I just felt like I was watching people make bad decisions and follow through like they were on a set course.

I remember thinking that Stacy Abrams, as much as I disagree with her politics knows how to work the system to get what she wants more than these clowns. She got rules changed and accomplished her goal. These people just made a mess. Sorry, just one persons pragmatic opinion from when I watched and have seen since.

---

Good post. There was a crowd of unserious goofballs in the crowd.
It appears there were also some people prepared to install the losing candidate of a presidential election.

Oldbear83 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Canon said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

The FBI has lost all credibility. They have been weaponized by the left. The question is, do you believe the FBI? The answer is generally a resounding no, for thinking individuals.

---

The FBI handles over 100,000 cases a year. Come hurt the FBI, no doubt, but what about the other 100,000 cases? City police handle millions of cases a year. Some make mistakes but that doesn't mean millions of cases should not be prosecuted

---

There is evidence that the FBI had informants, and likely outright instigators, among the protesters on January 6, and the refusal of Jill Sanborn and Merrick Garland to answer questions about how many agents were present and what they did is an outrage that demands follow-up.

---

I bet this will come out at the trial. I'm looking forward to it

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

Osodecentx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

The FBI has lost all credibility. They have been weaponized by the left. The question is, do you believe the FBI? The answer is generally a resounding no, for thinking individuals.

---

The FBI handles over 100,000 cases a year. Come hurt the FBI, no doubt, but what about the other 100,000 cases? City police handle millions of cases a year. Some make mistakes but that doesn't mean millions of cases should not be prosecuted

---

There is evidence that the FBI had informants, and likely outright instigators, among the protesters on January 6, and the refusal of Jill Sanborn and Merrick Garland to answer questions about how many agents were present and what they did is an outrage that demands follow-up.

---

I bet this will come out at the trial. I'm looking forward to it

---

We'll see. The courts have not been consistent of late.

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

Which weapons were transported to DC? Be explicit. Be exact.

---

On a football message board!

RMF5630 said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

Which weapons were transported to DC? Be explicit. Be exact.

---

On a football message board!

---

R&P. Now, let's see him pretend he wasn't lying.

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

no it isnt.. its a plan to commit insurrection. For it to be insurection, you actually have to bring the weapons to the capital.

that plan was not enacted because the weapons never left the store house(hotel room). That is why you have conspiracy charges and not insurrection charges.

Its ok to admit it, we already know..

---

Nobody withdrew from the conspiracy or changed their minds about inserting Trump into the presidency.

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

no it isnt.. its a plan to commit insurrection. For it to be insurection, you actually have to bring the weapons to the capital.

that plan was not enacted because the weapons never left the store house(hotel room). That is why you have conspiracy charges and not insurrection charges.

Its ok to admit it, we already know..

---

Nobody withdrew from the conspiracy or changed their minds about inserting Trump into the presidency.

---

the plan was to move the weapons to capital and use them to get what they wanted.. did the weapons move? Was the objective achieved? Clearly the plan was changed and weapons didnt move.. objective of plan was not achieved.

Seditious Conspiracy means there wss a plan with pieces in place. insurrection means the plan was enacted and repelled. One of these didnt happen.

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

---

So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

What is the legal definition of an insurrection?
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

---

So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

---

yep, it can be strongly argued they did that " 18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy"

It is what they are being charged with..

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

---

So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

---

Seditious conspiracy

Just like what you to copied and pasted.

Certainly not an insurrection like you to try demand that it was.

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

---

So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

---

yep, it can be strongly argued they did that

---

What is the legal definition of an insurrection?
an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

---

So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

What is the legal definition of an insurrection?
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

---

much much harder to proved they did this.. which is why they are not charged with it.

Would help if the weapons had been at the capital rather than at hotel room. They were not prevented or caught in the act, the plan was not enacted.

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

---

So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

---

yep, it can be strongly argued they did that

---

What is the legal definition of an insurrection?
an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

---

The part missing here, is the act. Those guys didn't insurrect like the blmers and antifa did for months.

Dude, you look like a buffoon the more you try to double down.

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

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You clearly don't know what an insurrection is.

And apparently you don't understand the difference and act and a conspiracy to commit an act.

I guess you believe that conspiracy to commit murder and not following through with it is the same thing as actually committing the murder?

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So they conspired to keep Trump in as president? What would you call it?

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

What is the legal definition of an insurrection?
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

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much much harder to proved they did this.. which is why they are not charged with it.

Would help if the weapons had been at the capital rather than at hotel room. They were not prevented or caught in the act, the plan was not enacted.

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I think you're right on sedition v insurrection.
However, moving the weapons from other state to Alexandria in preparation to transport them to the Capitol is a problem for the defendants. Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP.

In the United States, insurrection against the authority of the federal government is a crime under 18 U.S. Code 2383, which provides that:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

no it isnt.. its a plan to commit insurrection. For it to be insurection, you actually have to bring the weapons to the capital.

that plan was not enacted because the weapons never left the store house(hotel room). That is why you have conspiracy charges and not insurrection charges.

Its ok to admit it, we already know..

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Nobody withdrew from the conspiracy or changed their minds about inserting Trump into the presidency.

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I must have missed the part where they said that Trump was now the President and Biden not. I recall Pence saying it was certified and power peacefully changed on Jan 20th. O guess I missed that take over part.

RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

no it isnt.. its a plan to commit insurrection. For it to be insurection, you actually have to bring the weapons to the capital.

that plan was not enacted because the weapons never left the store house(hotel room). That is why you have conspiracy charges and not insurrection charges.

Its ok to admit it, we already know..

---

Nobody withdrew from the conspiracy or changed their minds about inserting Trump into the presidency.

---

I must have missed the part where they said that Trump was now the President and Biden not. I recall Pence saying it was certified and power peacefully changed on Jan 20th. O guess I missed that take over part.

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It's in the indictment

"Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP."

Not close to proven, and there is reason to think that particular claim was the creation of Ray Epps and his buddies.

Oldbear83 said:

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"Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP."

Not close to proven, and there is reason to think that particular claim was the creation of Ray Epps and his buddies.

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There is video of them in the Capitol. Nobody representing the defendant has asserted he wasn't in the Capitol

Osodecentx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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"Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP."

Not close to proven, and there is reason to think that particular claim was the creation of Ray Epps and his buddies.

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There is video of them in the Capitol. Nobody representing the defendant has asserted he wasn't in the Capitol

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Where were the guns you said he brought into DC?

Osodecentx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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"Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP."

Not close to proven, and there is reason to think that particular claim was the creation of Ray Epps and his buddies.

---

There is video of them in the Capitol. Nobody representing the defendant has asserted he wasn't in the Capitol

---

Video of whom and doing what, precisely? There's a lot of noise out there, but most of it is less worthy of attention than a fit of flatulence.

Oldbear83 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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"Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP."

Not close to proven, and there is reason to think that particular claim was the creation of Ray Epps and his buddies.

---

There is video of them in the Capitol. Nobody representing the defendant has asserted he wasn't in the Capitol

---

Video of whom and doing what, precisely? There's a lot of noise out there, but most of it is less worthy of attention than a fit of flatulence.

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The defendant
Are you disputing that?

Osodecentx said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

Are you favor of charging people with crimes they might have committed? I think you missed the point. So if a person thinks about killing someone but doesn't, should she be charged with murder?

If they brought the guns for an insurrection, why didn't they bring them to the planned insurrection?

Osodecentx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Their conspirators were actually in the Capitol looking for the Speaker and VP."

Not close to proven, and there is reason to think that particular claim was the creation of Ray Epps and his buddies.

---

There is video of them in the Capitol. Nobody representing the defendant has asserted he wasn't in the Capitol

---

Video of whom and doing what, precisely? There's a lot of noise out there, but most of it is less worthy of attention than a fit of flatulence.

---

The defendant
Are you disputing that?

---

Where were the guns you said he brought into DC?

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

It's still not insurrection unless they were in cahoots with the person/persons who would be the overthrower. The sedition charges have some legs if they did what they're accused of.

ATL Bear said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

It's still not insurrection unless they were in cahoots with the person/persons who would be the overthrower. The sedition charges have some legs if they did what they're accused of.

---

I agree
Looking forward to the trial

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

It's still not insurrection unless they were in cahoots with the person/persons who would be the overthrower. The sedition charges have some legs if they did what they're accused of.

---

On the contrary. Aiding and assisting are construed very broadly and, unlike conspiracy, don't require any planning or collusion.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

If they brought the guns for an insurrection, why didn't they bring them to the planned insurrection?

---

When the keepers of the weapons said "we're here if you need us" he was trying to track down the Speaker and VP

They were prepared, they never withdrew from the conspiracy.

Other than not fulfilling any of their plans. "Leave the guns and ammo, we got a guy in a shaman outfit and some poop!"

Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

It's still not insurrection unless they were in cahoots with the person/persons who would be the overthrower. The sedition charges have some legs if they did what they're accused of.

---

On the contrary. Aiding and assisting are construed very broadly and, unlike conspiracy, don't require any planning or collusion.

---

so are they charged with insurrection or not?

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

What are the Oathkeepers? I heard they are a "far-right" group ... but from people that consider public school parents domestic terrorists.

In fairness to the guy, I think these hardcore gun guys do a lot of ad hoc ammo sales. I think last year there was some terrorism scare in Denver that turned out to be a guy selling guns. My point is that's not (pun intended) a smoking gun.

---

Do you think they took ammo to DC to sell it?

---

I don't have an opinion. . Without evidence motive is difficult to prove. Do you have evidence that clarifies their motive or intent?

---

We only know what the indictment alleges. Do you believe this is all the feds have?

---

Do you think if a kid shoplifts he should be charged with armed robbery because he has a gun at his house? No
Should people caught speeding be charged with DUI if they have a fridge full of beer at home? No

---

If people buy and transport weapons to DC in order to keep a losing candidate as POTUS, that is insurrection not shoplifting.

If people cache weapons nearby with the idea of bringing them to the Capitol to violently prevent the counting of the Electoral Votes, that's insurrection, not DUI.

---

It's still not insurrection unless they were in cahoots with the person/persons who would be the overthrower. The sedition charges have some legs if they did what they're accused of.

---

On the contrary. Aiding and assisting are construed very broadly and, unlike conspiracy, don't require any planning or collusion.

---

Aiding and assisting what/who? Someone you were never in contact with or in any way involved in your "plot"?