Vice versa, Sam. When asked for evidence, the anti-Trump people always fall back on emotion, and the honest ones admit so.

The evidence of 2017-2020 shows Trump was, like it or not, give him credit or not, effective for US interests in most cases, especially when compared to the current Administration.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

Oldbear83 said:

---

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

---

Turn off the computer and run along to the dry cleaner, Old. You want to pick up your sheet and hood in plenty of time for the rally tonight.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

The problem is those "defects in character" were often created by his detractors and spread by a willing media and they were usually focused on his "mean tweets." Don't get me wrong, I can't stand to listen to the man speak. I was forced to watch the entirety of his speeches thanks to the rampant parsing of his words and out of context quotes used against him. While watching him speak publicly is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me it was truly revealing in showing how corrupt the mainstream media truly was when they later reported on it. It's hard for people to admit they were duped. I get it. I've been wrong before, too. But with the revelations in the Hunter laptop story, the results of the Durham investigation, the results of democrat leadership in our every day lives and in the world theater, we see clearly democrats and leftists have been very wrong for the last 5 years. With all this preponderance of evidence saying as much all discussion of Trump now devolves into emotional personal dislike of Trump and hypotheticals are used as justification.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

The problem is those "defects in character" were often created by his detractors and spread by a willing media and they were usually focused on his "mean tweets." Don't get me wrong, I can't stand to listen to the man speak. I was forced to watch the entirety of his speeches thanks to the rampant parsing of his words and out of context quotes used against him. While watching him speak publicly is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me it was truly revealing in showing how corrupt the mainstream media truly was when they later reported on it. It's hard for people to admit they were duped. I get it. I've been wrong before, too. But with the revelations in the Hunter laptop story, the results of the Durham investigation, the results of democrat leadership in our every day lives and in the world theater, we see clearly democrats and leftists have been very wrong for the last 5 years. With all this preponderance of evidence saying as much all discussion of Trump now devolves into emotional personal dislike of Trump and hypotheticals are used as justification.

---

The short version of this is "but but what about...?" It may be true, but it's off point.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

The problem is those "defects in character" were often created by his detractors and spread by a willing media and they were usually focused on his "mean tweets." Don't get me wrong, I can't stand to listen to the man speak. I was forced to watch the entirety of his speeches thanks to the rampant parsing of his words and out of context quotes used against him. While watching him speak publicly is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me it was truly revealing in showing how corrupt the mainstream media truly was when they later reported on it. It's hard for people to admit they were duped. I get it. I've been wrong before, too. But with the revelations in the Hunter laptop story, the results of the Durham investigation, the results of democrat leadership in our every day lives and in the world theater, we see clearly democrats and leftists have been very wrong for the last 5 years. With all this preponderance of evidence saying as much all discussion of Trump now devolves into emotional personal dislike of Trump and hypotheticals are used as justification.

---

The short version of this is "but but what about...?" It may be true, but it's off point.

---

Read it again. The short version is "The left has been proven repeatedly to be liars. Trump has repeatedly been vindicated since leaving office. The ONLY argument against Trump that leftists and neocons have remaining are emotional arguments based on hypotheticals."

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

---

Turn off the computer and run along to the dry cleaner, Old. You want to pick up your sheet and hood in plenty of time for the rally tonight.

---

Wow.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

The problem is those "defects in character" were often created by his detractors and spread by a willing media and they were usually focused on his "mean tweets." Don't get me wrong, I can't stand to listen to the man speak. I was forced to watch the entirety of his speeches thanks to the rampant parsing of his words and out of context quotes used against him. While watching him speak publicly is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me it was truly revealing in showing how corrupt the mainstream media truly was when they later reported on it. It's hard for people to admit they were duped. I get it. I've been wrong before, too. But with the revelations in the Hunter laptop story, the results of the Durham investigation, the results of democrat leadership in our every day lives and in the world theater, we see clearly democrats and leftists have been very wrong for the last 5 years. With all this preponderance of evidence saying as much all discussion of Trump now devolves into emotional personal dislike of Trump and hypotheticals are used as justification.

---

The short version of this is "but but what about...?" It may be true, but it's off point.

---

Read it again. The short version is "The left has been proven repeatedly to be liars. Trump has repeatedly been vindicated since leaving office. The ONLY argument against Trump that leftists and neocons have remaining are emotional arguments based on hypotheticals."

---

Trump's conduct since the election isn't hypothetical, nor is the damage it's done. Reasonable conservatives, not just leftists and neocons, can see that for what it is.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

---

Turn off the computer and run along to the dry cleaner, Old. You want to pick up your sheet and hood in plenty of time for the rally tonight.

---

Wow.

---

Oldbear has taught me the value of making random, unsubstantiated personal attacks with no regard for reason or decorum. I have to admit it's quite liberating.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

ShooterTX said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Not the right man for the job, but probably a better man than Trump."

On absolutely zero evidence.

Actually, a fair amount saying the opposite.

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/politics/biden-calls-reporter/index.html

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/589253-president-biden-is-blaming-everyone-else-for-surging-inflation

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430

---

Here's Zelensky's top aide, someone actually there on the ground, explicitly saying Biden is doing more than Trump. I guess he didn't get the latest GOP talking points yet.

Grateful to 🇺🇸, our reliable partner. The @POTUS does more for 🇺🇦 than any of his predecessors.

— Andriy Yermak (@AndriyYermak) March 17, 2022

---

LOL

What are you smoking??

You think he would be dumb enough to piss off the current POTUS, while also begging the POTUS for help?? Only a Biden voter would be stupid enough to tell the truth about the current administration, while also being wholly dependent upon that administration.

You are a fool to believe that this is anything other than political flattery, for the hope & prayer that Biden might help out Ukraine. We all know that this wouldn't be the first time that Biden used the influence of the White House to get what he wanted from Ukraine.

You are gullible on a whole new level of gullible.

---

In all fairness Biden moved troops to NATO, moved a carrier strike group, calling Putin out as a war criminal, the level of aid and his daily attention to this situation is tangible and laudable. He made some bonehead moves, but he has also stepped up. I do not like his policies or will I ever vote for him, but that does not mean he can't do a commendable job on this mess within the constraints imposed on him.

Hard to have credibility if you never give people any credit, either Trump or Biden.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

---

Turn off the computer and run along to the dry cleaner, Old. You want to pick up your sheet and hood in plenty of time for the rally tonight.

---

There's the Sam we have come to know and pity.

My non-white wife has some words for you, by the way.

RMF5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Not the right man for the job, but probably a better man than Trump."

On absolutely zero evidence.

Actually, a fair amount saying the opposite.

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/politics/biden-calls-reporter/index.html

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/589253-president-biden-is-blaming-everyone-else-for-surging-inflation

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430

---

Here's Zelensky's top aide, someone actually there on the ground, explicitly saying Biden is doing more than Trump. I guess he didn't get the latest GOP talking points yet.

Grateful to 🇺🇸, our reliable partner. The @POTUS does more for 🇺🇦 than any of his predecessors.

— Andriy Yermak (@AndriyYermak) March 17, 2022

---

LOL

What are you smoking??

You think he would be dumb enough to piss off the current POTUS, while also begging the POTUS for help?? Only a Biden voter would be stupid enough to tell the truth about the current administration, while also being wholly dependent upon that administration.

You are a fool to believe that this is anything other than political flattery, for the hope & prayer that Biden might help out Ukraine. We all know that this wouldn't be the first time that Biden used the influence of the White House to get what he wanted from Ukraine.

You are gullible on a whole new level of gullible.

---

In all fairness Biden moved troops to NATO, moved a carrier strike group, calling Putin out as a war criminal, the level of aid and his daily attention to this situation is tangible and laudable. He made some bonehead moves, but he has also stepped up. I do not like his policies or will I ever vote for him, but that does not mean he can do a commendable job on this mess within the constraints imposed on him.

Hard to have credibility if you never give people any credit, either Trump or Biden.

---

Well said.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

---

Turn off the computer and run along to the dry cleaner, Old. You want to pick up your sheet and hood in plenty of time for the rally tonight.

---

There's the Sam we have come to know and pity.

My non-white wife has some words for you, by the way.

---

Give her my best. I've come to regard her as something close to a saint.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

BS. The fact that you attack Trump a every opportunity demonstrates beyond doubt your malicious glee in defaming the man.

---

Turn off the computer and run along to the dry cleaner, Old. You want to pick up your sheet and hood in plenty of time for the rally tonight.

---

There's the Sam we have come to know and pity.

My non-white wife has some words for you, by the way.

---

Give her my best. I've come to regard her as something close to a saint.

---

You seriously don't want to know what she thinks of you.

Biden is trash. No debate necessary

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Not the right man for the job, but probably a better man than Trump."

On absolutely zero evidence.

Actually, a fair amount saying the opposite.

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/politics/biden-calls-reporter/index.html

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/589253-president-biden-is-blaming-everyone-else-for-surging-inflation

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430

---

Here's Zelensky's top aide, someone actually there on the ground, explicitly saying Biden is doing more than Trump. I guess he didn't get the latest GOP talking points yet.

Grateful to 🇺🇸, our reliable partner. The @POTUS does more for 🇺🇦 than any of his predecessors.

— Andriy Yermak (@AndriyYermak) March 17, 2022

---

LOL

What are you smoking??

You think he would be dumb enough to piss off the current POTUS, while also begging the POTUS for help?? Only a Biden voter would be stupid enough to tell the truth about the current administration, while also being wholly dependent upon that administration.

You are a fool to believe that this is anything other than political flattery, for the hope & prayer that Biden might help out Ukraine. We all know that this wouldn't be the first time that Biden used the influence of the White House to get what he wanted from Ukraine.

You are gullible on a whole new level of gullible.

---

In all fairness Biden moved troops to NATO, moved a carrier strike group, calling Putin out as a war criminal, the level of aid and his daily attention to this situation is tangible and laudable. He made some bonehead moves, but he has also stepped up. I do not like his policies or will I ever vote for him, but that does not mean he can do a commendable job on this mess within the constraints imposed on him.

Hard to have credibility if you never give people any credit, either Trump or Biden.

---

Well said.

---

Is it, though? It is fair to recognize that, yes, Biden is largely responsible for the situation we find ourselves in with his use of rhetoric and actions, and yes we are closer to nuclear war because of his foreign policy decisions than we have been since Reagan, but say that now that we are in this situation Biden shares responsibility for getting us into, he's doing a good job?

I just don't know. I have a lawyer on the other side of a case that has ignored the file to the point of missing discovery and expert deadlines. Now that we filed an MSJ he has stepped up and filed a number of motions for leave to reopen discovery and try to designate experts so as to avoid a malpractice claim. Should I say that he has done a good job of handing the case following the malpractice he committed? Should we say he's the right man to represent his client after committing malpractice?

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

Which conservative has ever seriously argued that either Hitler or Stalin were good?

Maybe I missed it, but what costs under Trump are you not willing to pay again?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

and yet you ARE willing to pay the costs for Biden?? Potential nuclear war? Invasion and aggression by totalitarian dictators? Out of control inflation? Energy supply issues and sky-high gas prices? Out of control government spending with NO discernable benefits? Insanity level COVID policies? Complete incompetence in the oval office and the VP office?

Alll of that is fine... but mean tweets are just too much??

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

The problem is those "defects in character" were often created by his detractors and spread by a willing media and they were usually focused on his "mean tweets." Don't get me wrong, I can't stand to listen to the man speak. I was forced to watch the entirety of his speeches thanks to the rampant parsing of his words and out of context quotes used against him. While watching him speak publicly is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me it was truly revealing in showing how corrupt the mainstream media truly was when they later reported on it. It's hard for people to admit they were duped. I get it. I've been wrong before, too. But with the revelations in the Hunter laptop story, the results of the Durham investigation, the results of democrat leadership in our every day lives and in the world theater, we see clearly democrats and leftists have been very wrong for the last 5 years. With all this preponderance of evidence saying as much all discussion of Trump now devolves into emotional personal dislike of Trump and hypotheticals are used as justification.

---

The short version of this is "but but what about...?" It may be true, but it's off point.

---

Read it again. The short version is "The left has been proven repeatedly to be liars. Trump has repeatedly been vindicated since leaving office. The ONLY argument against Trump that leftists and neocons have remaining are emotional arguments based on hypotheticals."

---

Trump's conduct since the election isn't hypothetical, nor is the damage it's done. Reasonable conservatives, not just leftists and neocons, can see that for what it is.

---

Trump's reactions to the election were what I'd expect from a spoiled trust fund kid who grew up into a brash business goon that got genuinely ****ed over by the media and corrupt establishment for four years and watched as the elections went down exactly as he predicted. He said he would be up and then all the sudden a bunch of votes for Biden would be found. In many places that came true. That was enough to convince him the fix was in and he is not a good loser to begin with. That in no way negates what he did as president both in pressure situations and in general. We KNOW what he did, we KNOW what his policies wrought and every day we are learning the truth about what he did NOT do, despite the claims made by the left. His temper tantrum over losing doesn't change any of that.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Not the right man for the job, but probably a better man than Trump."

On absolutely zero evidence.

Actually, a fair amount saying the opposite.

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/politics/biden-calls-reporter/index.html

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/589253-president-biden-is-blaming-everyone-else-for-surging-inflation

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430

---

Here's Zelensky's top aide, someone actually there on the ground, explicitly saying Biden is doing more than Trump. I guess he didn't get the latest GOP talking points yet.

Grateful to 🇺🇸, our reliable partner. The @POTUS does more for 🇺🇦 than any of his predecessors.

— Andriy Yermak (@AndriyYermak) March 17, 2022

---

LOL

What are you smoking??

You think he would be dumb enough to piss off the current POTUS, while also begging the POTUS for help?? Only a Biden voter would be stupid enough to tell the truth about the current administration, while also being wholly dependent upon that administration.

You are a fool to believe that this is anything other than political flattery, for the hope & prayer that Biden might help out Ukraine. We all know that this wouldn't be the first time that Biden used the influence of the White House to get what he wanted from Ukraine.

You are gullible on a whole new level of gullible.

---

In all fairness Biden moved troops to NATO, moved a carrier strike group, calling Putin out as a war criminal, the level of aid and his daily attention to this situation is tangible and laudable. He made some bonehead moves, but he has also stepped up. I do not like his policies or will I ever vote for him, but that does not mean he can do a commendable job on this mess within the constraints imposed on him.

Hard to have credibility if you never give people any credit, either Trump or Biden.

---

Well said.

---

Is it, though? It is fair to recognize that, yes, Biden is largely responsible for the situation we find ourselves in with his use of rhetoric and actions, and yes we are closer to nuclear war because of his foreign policy decisions than we have been since Reagan, but say that now that we are in this situation Biden shares responsibility for getting us into, he's doing a good job?

I just don't know. I have a lawyer on the other side of a case that has ignored the file to the point of missing discovery and expert deadlines. Now that we filed an MSJ he has stepped up and filed a number of motions for leave to reopen discovery and try to designate experts so as to avoid a malpractice claim. Should I say that he has done a good job of handing the case following the malpractice he committed? Should we say he's the right man to represent his client after committing malpractice?

---

Let's say you have a choice between two lawyers. One is great with filings but a total train wreck in the courtroom. The other one already missed a deadline but knows how to keep the jury in the palm of his hand from voir dire all the way through closing. Now don't tell me a good lawyer should be able to do both. We know that, but hypothetically it's a two lawyer system. Which one do you want representing you at trial?

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

---

Hitler had some redeeming qualities too. He brought Germany out of rampant unemployment, rescued it from the prospect of communist revolution, and restored it to prominence on the world stage (at least temporarily).

I refuse to accept a false dilemma. What I prefer is a patriotic conservatism which values the long term good of the country over the vanity of one man. If that's not a viable option, then we need to send the GOP a message and tell them to make it viable next time. Withholding support is a valid and hopefully productive exercise of choice.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Not the right man for the job, but probably a better man than Trump."

On absolutely zero evidence.

Actually, a fair amount saying the opposite.

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/politics/biden-calls-reporter/index.html

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/589253-president-biden-is-blaming-everyone-else-for-surging-inflation

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430

---

Here's Zelensky's top aide, someone actually there on the ground, explicitly saying Biden is doing more than Trump. I guess he didn't get the latest GOP talking points yet.

Grateful to 🇺🇸, our reliable partner. The @POTUS does more for 🇺🇦 than any of his predecessors.

— Andriy Yermak (@AndriyYermak) March 17, 2022

---

LOL

What are you smoking??

You think he would be dumb enough to piss off the current POTUS, while also begging the POTUS for help?? Only a Biden voter would be stupid enough to tell the truth about the current administration, while also being wholly dependent upon that administration.

You are a fool to believe that this is anything other than political flattery, for the hope & prayer that Biden might help out Ukraine. We all know that this wouldn't be the first time that Biden used the influence of the White House to get what he wanted from Ukraine.

You are gullible on a whole new level of gullible.

---

In all fairness Biden moved troops to NATO, moved a carrier strike group, calling Putin out as a war criminal, the level of aid and his daily attention to this situation is tangible and laudable. He made some bonehead moves, but he has also stepped up. I do not like his policies or will I ever vote for him, but that does not mean he can do a commendable job on this mess within the constraints imposed on him.

Hard to have credibility if you never give people any credit, either Trump or Biden.

---

Well said.

---

Is it, though? It is fair to recognize that, yes, Biden is largely responsible for the situation we find ourselves in with his use of rhetoric and actions, and yes we are closer to nuclear war because of his foreign policy decisions than we have been since Reagan, but say that now that we are in this situation Biden shares responsibility for getting us into, he's doing a good job?

I just don't know. I have a lawyer on the other side of a case that has ignored the file to the point of missing discovery and expert deadlines. Now that we filed an MSJ he has stepped up and filed a number of motions for leave to reopen discovery and try to designate experts so as to avoid a malpractice claim. Should I say that he has done a good job of handing the case following the malpractice he committed? Should we say he's the right man to represent his client after committing malpractice?

---

Let's say you have a choice between two lawyers. One is great with filings but a total train wreck in the courtroom. The other one already missed a deadline but knows how to keep the jury in the palm of his hand from voir dire all the way through closing. Now don't tell me a good lawyer should be able to do both. We know that, but hypothetically it's a two lawyer system. Which one do you want representing you at trial?

---

At trial, the trial lawyer of course.

However, if you really want a more apt hypothetical, both pretty much suck in the court room.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

---

I refuse to accept a false dilemma. What I prefer is a patriotic conservatism which values the long term good of the country over the vanity of one man. If that's not a viable option, then we need to send the GOP a message and tell them to make it viable next time. Withholding support is a valid and hopefully productive exercise of choice.

---

Speaking of false dilemmas, you believe a vote for Trump was favoring the vanity of a man over the long term good of the country?

Really? Huh.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

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You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

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No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

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I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

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The problem is those "defects in character" were often created by his detractors and spread by a willing media and they were usually focused on his "mean tweets." Don't get me wrong, I can't stand to listen to the man speak. I was forced to watch the entirety of his speeches thanks to the rampant parsing of his words and out of context quotes used against him. While watching him speak publicly is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me it was truly revealing in showing how corrupt the mainstream media truly was when they later reported on it. It's hard for people to admit they were duped. I get it. I've been wrong before, too. But with the revelations in the Hunter laptop story, the results of the Durham investigation, the results of democrat leadership in our every day lives and in the world theater, we see clearly democrats and leftists have been very wrong for the last 5 years. With all this preponderance of evidence saying as much all discussion of Trump now devolves into emotional personal dislike of Trump and hypotheticals are used as justification.

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The short version of this is "but but what about...?" It may be true, but it's off point.

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Read it again. The short version is "The left has been proven repeatedly to be liars. Trump has repeatedly been vindicated since leaving office. The ONLY argument against Trump that leftists and neocons have remaining are emotional arguments based on hypotheticals."

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Trump's conduct since the election isn't hypothetical, nor is the damage it's done. Reasonable conservatives, not just leftists and neocons, can see that for what it is.

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Trump's reactions to the election were what I'd expect from a spoiled trust fund kid who grew up into a brash business goon that got genuinely ****ed over by the media and corrupt establishment for four years and watched as the elections went down exactly as he predicted. He said he would be up and then all the sudden a bunch of votes for Biden would be found. In many places that came true. That was enough to convince him the fix was in and he is not a good loser to begin with. That in no way negates what he did as president both in pressure situations and in general. We KNOW what he did, we KNOW what his policies wrought and every day we are learning the truth about what he did NOT do, despite the claims made by the left. His temper tantrum over losing doesn't change any of that.

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The election didn't go as he predicted or as he claimed. This is the key point. His narrative wasn't just everyday political or legal spin. It was utter delusion from the furthest reaches of conspiracy world, and he persisted not only to the point of encouraging violence but even to this day. Washington is full of spoiled politicians who didn't grow up to do this. In fact the total number who did this, other than Trump, is zero.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

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As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

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Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

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So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

---

I refuse to accept a false dilemma. What I prefer is a patriotic conservatism which values the long term good of the country over the vanity of one man. If that's not a viable option, then we need to send the GOP a message and tell them to make it viable next time. Withholding support is a valid and hopefully productive exercise of choice.

---

Speaking of false dilemmas, you believe a vote for Trump was favoring the vanity of a man over the long term good of the country?

Really? Huh.

---

I believe it would be, knowing what we know now. I've never bashed anyone for voting for him in 2020, even though I disagree with the choice.

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

---

I refuse to accept a false dilemma. What I prefer is a patriotic conservatism which values the long term good of the country over the vanity of one man. If that's not a viable option, then we need to send the GOP a message and tell them to make it viable next time. Withholding support is a valid and hopefully productive exercise of choice.

---

Speaking of false dilemmas, you believe a vote for Trump was favoring the vanity of a man over the long term good of the country?

Really? Huh.

---

I believe it would be, knowing what we know now. I've never bashed anyone for voting for him in 2020, even though I disagree with the choice.

---

So...you believe that policies which promote or contribute to open borders, hyper-inflation, higher cost of living, unaffiordable housing, unaffordable gas prices, a genderless society, labor shortages, and DEFCON 3 are preferable to Trump.

Huh.

I can think of reasons other than supporting the vanity of a man that one would prefer Trump's policies over those I mentioned (as I am sure can most reasonable, pragmatic people), but I guess we can agree to disagree,

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

---

I refuse to accept a false dilemma. What I prefer is a patriotic conservatism which values the long term good of the country over the vanity of one man. If that's not a viable option, then we need to send the GOP a message and tell them to make it viable next time. Withholding support is a valid and hopefully productive exercise of choice.

---

Speaking of false dilemmas, you believe a vote for Trump was favoring the vanity of a man over the long term good of the country?

Really? Huh.

---

I believe it would be, knowing what we know now. I've never bashed anyone for voting for him in 2020, even though I disagree with the choice.

---

So I am straight here, why then did you disagree with the choice to vote for Trump in 2020?

It appears that, based on your answers here, the actions of Trump surrounding the election results and Jan. 6 form the bulwark (if not outright structure) of your opposition to Trump. That is fine and good (debate surrounding election integrity, follow up from Trump and others aside), but I am missing the link back to his actual policies or presidency.

It is fine to use post-election events to justify a non-Trump position now and in the future, but those activities cannot justifiably be a basis to post hoc change impact of his presidency. To take it a step further, such reasons cannot, in my mind, be the main basis for speculation about how Trump would handle the current situation, since all of the post-election world would have been different and Trump likely would not have done/said the bombastic things he did (or that the media said he did).

Finally, to the bolded above, if that is your basis for voting, then who have you voted for the last 20 years?

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

But it's true. When we really dig into the anti-Trump opinions and compare them to the facts it all boils down to an emotional dislike of Trump's personality rather than ANY policy of his administration. The worst thing about Trump was the behavior of leftists and neocons in response to his existence.

---

You may have repeated it so many times that you believe it's true. When you really dig into the anti-Trump opinions, you'll find that they're not based on emotion nor are they limited to leftists and neocons.

---

No, it's true. His policies worked. With an unbiased media Trump easily wins re-election, but the vast majority of media went full democrat and hid or outright lied and dismissed damning evidence against Biden while perpetuating leftist accusations against Trump. I could sit here and list those lies, from "he said all Mexicans are rapists!" to "he colluded with RUSSIA!" to "he said Nazis were very fine people!" "He made fun of a handicapped reporter!" to "there were bounties on American soldiers!" ad infinitum. "If true..." was a caveat in the media every day in their hit pieces on Trump. Now we are to the "If Trump..." level of using imagination to damn Orange Man Bad. The one common thread is it's all leftist imagination using hypotheticals to justify Trump hate, because the results of his policies don't lie.

---

I'm well aware of the benefits of his policies and the fact that the media lied about him. I said all of that at the time. I was also aware of the defects in his character and hoped he would rise above them once in office. I take no joy in acknowledging it, but the cold reality is that he failed to do so. It's his supporters' emotions that prevent them from seeing that.

---

I don't disagree with any of this, and feel similar to you about the man. The main difference in our thinking is you believe that the current **** show that got us into the myriad of both foreign and domestic problems we've experienced this past year is actually preferable to the relative prosperity and peace with the world we enjoyed under Trump, despite his many character flaws.

And that thought process, especially from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable.

---

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I mostly preferred the conditions under Trump, but they came at a cost I'm not willing to pay again.

---

As I said, that thought process, from someone who likes to think of himself as conservative, is rather remarkable

---

Conservatives need not be binary thinkers. Hitler killed a lot less people than Stalin, but that doesn't mean either of them were good.

---

So Trump is Hitler and Stalin is Biden in your statement. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's just a bit of a stretch, don't you think? As much as I dislike both Biden and Trump, each many has some redeeming qualities.

Has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with which fallible leader you think is better for the country. Many factors go into that decision, but we only have two viable options at the end of the day. For me, it's conservative policies that left us more prosperous and living at peace with the world. You prefer the current **** show.

---

I refuse to accept a false dilemma. What I prefer is a patriotic conservatism which values the long term good of the country over the vanity of one man. If that's not a viable option, then we need to send the GOP a message and tell them to make it viable next time. Withholding support is a valid and hopefully productive exercise of choice.

---

Speaking of false dilemmas, you believe a vote for Trump was favoring the vanity of a man over the long term good of the country?

Really? Huh.

---

I believe it would be, knowing what we know now. I've never bashed anyone for voting for him in 2020, even though I disagree with the choice.

---

So...you believe that policies which promote or contribute to open borders, hyper-inflation, higher cost of living, unaffiordable housing, unaffordable gas prices, a genderless society, labor shortages, and DEFCON 3 are preferable to Trump.

Huh.

I can think of reasons other than supporting the vanity of a man that one would prefer Trump's policies over those I mentioned (as I am sure can most reasonable, pragmatic people), but I guess we can agree to disagree,

---

I prefer Trump's policies. I won't condone violence in pursuit of those policies, and at this point I think a vote for Trump is condoning violence. He's completely without remorse.