ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

alot to unpack here..

We self-actualize, we dream, we are reborn. Freedom requires exploration. The totality is bursting with vibrations. Nothing is impossible. Have you found your myth? How should you navigate this unified cosmos? Child, look within and awaken yourself.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

This is an odd post since, you know, I don't actually do that. I guess it's one of those things that just "needs" to be true.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

I've never seen the post where Sam alluded to a poster a a Nazi or racist. On the other hand I have seen Older call Sam a Nazi. Maybe you have a link?

In regard to your second sentence, it has no discernible meaning. It is like saying all White people are racists because they are White even though they don't know it.

---

On the page prior to this one he tossed in a Willie Horton reference to imply the poster was a racist.

"It has no meaning" because you do not understand the context. Study up on Marcuse's concept of "repressive tolerance." Left is good; right is bad - left can do anything it wants and the right must play within sharply curtailed limits or else..... GOP moderates accept the Overton Window where it is, no matter how much its current position facilitates progressivism, because they are unwilling to incur opprobrium, so much so that they will actively prevent their own base from trying to move the Overton Window.

4th and Inches said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

alot to unpack here..

---

Populism is a word never heard until elites have screwed things up badly. And when you hear institutions calling populism/populists a "threat to freedom," you can be sure their positions are becoming tenuous. They no longer defend their actions and can only ad hominem their critics. When that no longer works, they attempt to silence their critics. To wit, we've moved from merely deplatforming people from social media to, now, investigating the PTA and establishing a Ministry of Truth to limit free speech under the guise of "fighting disinformation." Those are signs of approaching "end stage regime." Either the populists win, or it's thru the portal of single-party tyranny toward social credit scores & worse.

Here's the reality: Politicians who talk about defending institutions which no longer serve the public are the greater threat to liberty, as they cannot reform things that are part of their political coalition. Politicians who sharply criticize failing institutions and are willing to spend political capitol to force reforms upon them are the only chance we have to save those institutions.

My money is on the populists. They usually win in situations like this because, eventually, someone will listen to their grievances and take up their cause. In this case, we already see who that is.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

I've never seen the post where Sam alluded to a poster a a Nazi or racist. On the other hand I have seen Older call Sam a Nazi. Maybe you have a link?

In regard to your second sentence, it has no discernible meaning. It is like saying all White people are racists because they are White even though they don't know it.

---

On the page prior to this one he tossed in a Willie Horton reference to imply the poster was a racist.

"It has no meaning" because you do not understand the context. Study up on Marcuse's concept of "repressive tolerance." Left is good; right is bad - left can do anything it wants and the right must play within sharply curtailed limits or else..... GOP moderates accept the Overton Window where it is, no matter how much its current position facilitates progressivism, because they are unwilling to incur opprobrium, so much so that they will actively prevent their own base from trying to move the Overton Window.

---

I know exactly where you got the pseudo-intellectual gobbledegook that has no meaning.
Bull**** generator has been around for years.
https://www.bull****generator.com
Bull**** Generator generates bull**** for your next meeting, proposal, interview, or conversation with your pointy-haired boss.

He's trolling. I pointed out that he blames critical theory for everything from hangnails to hailstorms, and now he's going overboard just to mess with me.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

I've never seen the post where Sam alluded to a poster a a Nazi or racist. On the other hand I have seen Older call Sam a Nazi. Maybe you have a link?

In regard to your second sentence, it has no discernible meaning. It is like saying all White people are racists because they are White even though they don't know it.

---

On the page prior to this one he tossed in a Willie Horton reference to imply the poster was a racist.

---

No, it was a reference to another post where he mentioned the Horton ad.

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

Yep.

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

Ballot harvesting and pandemics / mail in voting / monkey lox, like in 2020 with Obama retread so we have to live that ****ty economy again, is the Democrats only hope.

Why quit riding a winning horse

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

Sam Lowry said:

---

He's trolling. I pointed out that he blames critical theory for everything from hangnails to hailstorms, and now he's going overboard just to mess with me.

---

Pretty easy to mess with Wile E. Coyote, ya know.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

I've never seen the post where Sam alluded to a poster a a Nazi or racist. On the other hand I have seen Older call Sam a Nazi. Maybe you have a link?

In regard to your second sentence, it has no discernible meaning. It is like saying all White people are racists because they are White even though they don't know it.

---

On the page prior to this one he tossed in a Willie Horton reference to imply the poster was a racist.

"It has no meaning" because you do not understand the context. Study up on Marcuse's concept of "repressive tolerance." Left is good; right is bad - left can do anything it wants and the right must play within sharply curtailed limits or else..... GOP moderates accept the Overton Window where it is, no matter how much its current position facilitates progressivism, because they are unwilling to incur opprobrium, so much so that they will actively prevent their own base from trying to move the Overton Window.

---

I know exactly where you got the pseudo-intellectual gobbledegook that has no meaning.
Bull**** generator has been around for years.
https://www.bull****generator.com
Bull**** Generator generates bull**** for your next meeting, proposal, interview, or conversation with your pointy-haired boss.

---

Oh I entirely agree that Critical Theory is bull***** Problem is, it is the cultural hegemony. It is the worldview of most societal institutions today. Gobbledygook it may be, but Marcuse and Adorno and Derrida and Foucault, et al, are the most cited intellectuals in history of academic publication. Their ideas literally frame the world we live in today, on campuses, in media, in bureaucracy, etc.... And they are literally terra-forming society, in ways an increasing number of citizens find objectionable.

It has even framed your perceptions, friend. And you do not realize it. That is why you do not understand the Trump phenomenon. It it were not him, it would be someone else. Ordinary people are rising to protest institutions which no longer serve the interests of ordinary people. Is that populism? Yep. But is it justified? In what world would it not be? Teachers secretly teaching kids to be trans at school so their parents won't know? Just look at linked video from a noted liberal. He sounds pretty conservative to some. Like a fascist to polite society. But in reality, he's just a liberal, who's realized how intolerant post-modernism really is. That conservatives like what he has to say doesn't mean he's moved righwards. It means he's returned to the bridge of classical liberalism, where liberals and conservatives agree on the problems and merely disagree on the solutions. But he still has a problem, the same problem you do.....the contrivance that there is some kind of looming threat to liberty on the right, and Trump is its hero. Poppycock. The threat to liberty today is a tatoo'ed leftist monster with odd pronouns and bulging neck vanes screaming in the face of ordinary people who are afraid that they'll lose their job and get prosecuted if they resist. The threat to the right is out in the trailer park working off their meth high by giving each other tattoos with kitchen knives so they can impress their brother at their next jail visit.

The people standing with Trump are just ordinary working people who are tired of being berated as deplorable for being angry at failed institutions. FINALLY, liberals are starting to see the disconnect. Post-modernism is hitting the brick wall of reality. But moderate Republicans. Man. It's Stockholm Syndrome. They're so used to living under repressive tolerance that they're afraid of what comes afterward, and attack anyone who threatens to let the sunlight into the cave.

If this spike in trans children is all biological, why is it regional? Either Ohio is shaming them or California is creating them. pic.twitter.com/t3Tx23MOsu

— Bill Maher (@billmaher) May 21, 2022

Is Marcuse in the room with us now, whiterock?

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump.

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump.

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him.

---

Trump is the one GOP candidate that can't win. The left will mobilize to levels never seen before to keep him out. This will make 2020 look like a legit election, vote harvesting, mail in ballots sent to everyone, drop off sights, elections will start in August. You will see every tactic to get those ballots, ID or not. Citizen or not.

RMF5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump.

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him.

---

Trump is the one GOP candidate that can't win. The left will mobilize to levels never seen before to keep him out. This will make 2020 look like a legit election, vote harvesting, mail in ballots sent to everyone, drop off sights, elections will start in August. You will see every tactic to get those ballots, ID or not. Citizen or not.

---

Mostly agree. Add to the mobilization of the Left the Trumpers driving moderates out of the Republican column.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

Lots of historical revisionism going on there, chiefly that the furious opposition he got was all about his personality rather than his policies. He got that furious opposition because they spied on him, got caught doing it, and he called them out rather than letting it pass. He got that furious opposition because he had the audacity to actually try to build a border wall....to actually appoint Federalist society judges....to call out NATO allies for not pulling their weight.....to call out China for a long list of bad behavior....to push back on climate madness that harmed citizens, etc.... Lots & lots of eminently reasonable people think he's actually right for the times. (VDH has a great video up on Trump as a tragic hero. You should watch it. Pretty spot on.)

And yes, your perspective on this is built squarely on the foundation of the authoritarian personality.
You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

RMF5630 said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Again, it had no bearing on the issue. Whatever loose association exists in your mind between Willie Horton and Jan. 6 doesn't make it relevant.

---

Posts like that one make me question whether you graduated high school, Sam, let alone college.

---

Insults like that reveal much more about you than they reveal about him.

---

Yep. Sad

---

Sad that we see Sam over and over alluding that those who disagree with him are Nazis, racists, etc....

The nub of the tension between Trumpers and NeverTrumpers in the GOP is that the latter have subconsciously adopted the post-modernist structure of liberty & tyranny.

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump.

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him.

---

Trump is the one GOP candidate that can't win. The left will mobilize to levels never seen before to keep him out. This will make 2020 look like a legit election, vote harvesting, mail in ballots sent to everyone, drop off sights, elections will start in August. You will see every tactic to get those ballots, ID or not. Citizen or not.

---

Faulty premise. 10-15m votes go away if he's not on the ticket. Persuade me where and how you will replace them.

THAT's why DeSantis is not going to challenge Trump.
For all Trump's warts, he is by any sober appraisal the best choice at this moment in time.

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

You're assuming the only reason to criticize a Republican is to impress Democrats. If that's true then your point doesn't only apply to Trump. There would be no benefit to criticizing any Republican, no matter how bad he or she was. That's not exactly a recipe for a healthy, principled political organization.

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

Lots of historical revisionism going on there, chiefly that the furious opposition he got was all about his personality rather than his policies. He got that furious opposition because they spied on him, got caught doing it, and he called them out rather than letting it pass. He got that furious opposition because he had the audacity to actually try to build a border wall....to actually appoint Federalist society judges....to call out NATO allies for not pulling their weight.....to call out China for a long list of bad behavior....to push back on climate madness that harmed citizens, etc.... Lots & lots of eminently reasonable people think he's actually right for the times. (VDH has a great video up on Trump as a tragic hero. You should watch it. Pretty spot on.)

And yes, your perspective on this is built squarely on the foundation of the authoritarian personality.
You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

A lot to unpack here. A lot.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

Lots of historical revisionism going on there, chiefly that the furious opposition he got was all about his personality rather than his policies. He got that furious opposition because they spied on him, got caught doing it, and he called them out rather than letting it pass. He got that furious opposition because he had the audacity to actually try to build a border wall....to actually appoint Federalist society judges....to call out NATO allies for not pulling their weight.....to call out China for a long list of bad behavior....to push back on climate madness that harmed citizens, etc.... Lots & lots of eminently reasonable people think he's actually right for the times. (VDH has a great video up on Trump as a tragic hero. You should watch it. Pretty spot on.)

And yes, your perspective on this is built squarely on the foundation of the authoritarian personality.
You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

A lot to unpack here. A lot.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

You're assuming the only reason to criticize a Republican is to impress Democrats. If that's true then your point doesn't only apply to Trump. There would be no benefit to criticizing any Republican, no matter how bad he or she was. That's not exactly a recipe for a healthy, principled political organization.

---

The casting of 6 January as a Trumpist insurrection is a blatant virtue posture.

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
--Ronald Reagan

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

You're assuming the only reason to criticize a Republican is to impress Democrats. If that's true then your point doesn't only apply to Trump. There would be no benefit to criticizing any Republican, no matter how bad he or she was. That's not exactly a recipe for a healthy, principled political organization.

---

The casting of 6 January as a Trumpist insurrection is a blatant virtue posture.

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
--Ronald Reagan

---

That's what the insurrectionists thought it was. If you think it's virtue signaling, you should probably take it up with them.

Not a day goes by when Trump doesn't break that commandment. I suspect Reagan would make an exception.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

You're assuming the only reason to criticize a Republican is to impress Democrats. If that's true then your point doesn't only apply to Trump. There would be no benefit to criticizing any Republican, no matter how bad he or she was. That's not exactly a recipe for a healthy, principled political organization.

---

The casting of 6 January as a Trumpist insurrection is a blatant virtue posture.

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
--Ronald Reagan

---

That's what the insurrectionists thought it was. If you think it's virtue signaling, you should probably take it up with them.

Not a day goes by when Trump doesn't break that commandment. I suspect Reagan would make an exception.

---

Trump is a piker compared to his critics.

This is politics, so nobody expects anyone to publicly admit they're wrong about anything. But it would be wise to drop a narrative that crumbles as quickly to elementary deconstruction as 6 Jan. Floating up something so patently absurd is going to incur, fairly, allegations of virtue posturing....as though one NEEDS it to be insurrection in order to strengthen a weak hand against the leader of the party.

If the guy is that weak politically, he will fall on his own. So I advise to stick to policy disagreements. If you have any.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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ATL Bear said:

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whiterock said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

You're assuming the only reason to criticize a Republican is to impress Democrats. If that's true then your point doesn't only apply to Trump. There would be no benefit to criticizing any Republican, no matter how bad he or she was. That's not exactly a recipe for a healthy, principled political organization.

---

The casting of 6 January as a Trumpist insurrection is a blatant virtue posture.

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
--Ronald Reagan

---

That's what the insurrectionists thought it was. If you think it's virtue signaling, you should probably take it up with them.

Not a day goes by when Trump doesn't break that commandment. I suspect Reagan would make an exception.

---

But it would be wise to drop a narrative that crumbles as quickly to elementary deconstruction as 6 Jan. Floating up something so patently absurd is going to incur, fairly, allegations of virtue posturing...

---

Maybe some of these seditionists will try that defense out in court. Would be fun to see how it goes.

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Or maybe Trump is a populist that threatens freedom in the same manner the left does. Or maybe he's an egotistical, power driven, sociopathic liar that is dangerous in a position of so much authority. The GOP version of Hillary Clinton if you will. How he hasn't been left in the rear view mirror at this point boggles the mind.

---

This is an interesting take. I hear it from time to time
Mainly from people that most fear BOM and his massive army and the power they wield.

When I ask for examples of BOM doing the things posited in a take like this, no answer ever comes

Only more fear.

---

Trump's populism, like most dangerous populists, is personality not policy based. There's nothing new in Trump's policies. Pat Buchanan carried his platforms 2 and a half decades ago. He was even irascible like Trump. But Buchanan never had the level of power lust or loyalty demand that Trump consistently shows. It was never more present than after the election of 2020. He literally drove solid conservative candidates, not career RINOs, away from races. He's currently keeping the likeliest best Presidential candidate for the GOP in 2024 on the sideline because of his threatened scorched Earth approach.

Trump captures the emotions (particularly anger) of conservatives and exploits them the same way liberals do with minorities and the poor. If he were principled in his endeavor that would at least be something, ala Buchanan, but he is a take no prisoners cult of personality. He has captured a victimhood sentiment I've rarely seen in conservatives. I just think there are much better options, and he's only a distraction that gives the Democrats their only hope for survival in 2024.

---

It's only personality based to the extent that he has the kind of personality it takes to fight establishments.

My mom said it best - "he's a businessman billionaire, so he knows what needs to be done and doesn't care about a political career. He will do the job and not care what others say." I could quibble with the businessman part of that argument. Businessmen tend to be terrible politicians, for a long list of reasons. But I understood her point - we need someone who will not let fear of getting attacked get in the way of doing what needs doing. Ex. he will fight tooth and nail to build a border wall no matter how many times people call him a racist. And he did exactly that, on that issue and more. He left all of his political capital on the field, played out every hand to either victory or defeat. THAT'S why he has such enduring support. No other Republican has ever tried so hard to keep his word to his coalition.

His weaknesses are known. So no need to belabor.

But your take on it is clearly, manifestly rooted in the "authoritarian personality." You can google that term. It is a concept straight from the Frankfurt School. Before you pick it up and wield it, understand that our common adversary - the left - insists, as a matter of bedrock worldview, that political conservatism is a characteristic of the authoritarian personality.

You gain no strength by attacking Trump.
You only alienate allies.

Never accept the language or premise of your opponent.
Never.
Ever.

---

I have to disagree. Trump isn't sacrificing political capital for anyone or anything. He instead is (using the businessman analogy) a corporate raider of political capital that is impervious and lacking empathy to the consequences of his approach and actions. That's simply ahistorical - He repeatedly built up political capital, then spent it over and over again, issue after issue. He's building it up now with endorsements. Your analysis also misses the point - objecting to "consequences" means you disapprove that he spent the capital. That's the fallacy to which most businessmen fall prey. They perceive political capital as the same as financial capital, to be husbanded carefully and allowed to compound over time, for a loss is never truly rebuilt. That is the thinking that caues the GOP to always kick the can down the road, to fight on the NEXT issue. The reality is, as WJC demonstrated, political capital is quite easily restored. You can get your arse kicked to the curb and then be fully restored with the turn of a phrase at the right moment.

His appeal to the pent up anger in the conservative movement (correctly present) is the elixir of his support and popularity. That's the political capital of his populism that isn't used for the promotion of ideals, but the promotion of Donald J Trump. That analysis would be correct if he did not accomplish meaningful policy. But he did. No GOP president achieved more, against more furious opposition. Just look at the border wall. He spent his political capital to push a controversial policy that now enjoys enormous majority support. You are doing here what neverTrumpers always do - letting visceral aversion occlude sober appraisal. And that sober appraisal would show you that the divide between the people and the institutions ostensibly formed to help them has never been greater, expanding well beyond the GOP. Because those institutions are not just failing to do anything. They are actually doing harm. Look at what's happening in elementary schools, for crissakes. I say again: Populism is a word never heard until elites screw up.* And boy, have they. Trump didn't do that. He just calls it out. That has to happen if those institutions are going to be fixed, for no matter how big his election victory is, the teachers unions are going to leave it all on the battlefield to stop him. Don't blame him. Blame them. (* seriously. literally. it's a bellweather word. when you see it used in political critique, someone is worried that their position is compromised).

We all know how the left and its supportive media goes at conservatives and conservative policies. I had no problem with an aggressive counter from Trump on that. But he is the one who alienates allies, and fails to build coalitions with those who support or would support him. He lacks the humility and integrity necessary for effective leadership, and exchanges it for a bully approach demanding fealty to his position and policies. Ironically that is a hallmark of the left under the guise of progress, but here we have Trump wielding the same approach not only on his opposition, but to those who are willing and able to be aligned with his ideals. That isn't just authoritarian, that's autocratic, and that's why we need to move past him. What allies did he alienate? Religious Conservatives are still with him. As are conservatives who like originalist judges. So, too, the conservatives who are looking for action on border policy. The foreign policy allies haven't abandoned him...why should they? his critiques of NATO allies have been fully vindicated. And on and on.

---

You should know that those people across the aisle you'd like to work with think you ARE an authoritarian personality, because you are a political conservative. Such forms the worldview of every liberal you know, even the ones who like you. So no virtue flows from criticizing Trump. Just self-harm.

---

You're assuming the only reason to criticize a Republican is to impress Democrats. If that's true then your point doesn't only apply to Trump. There would be no benefit to criticizing any Republican, no matter how bad he or she was. That's not exactly a recipe for a healthy, principled political organization.

---

The casting of 6 January as a Trumpist insurrection is a blatant virtue posture.

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
--Ronald Reagan

---

That's what the insurrectionists thought it was. If you think it's virtue signaling, you should probably take it up with them.

Not a day goes by when Trump doesn't break that commandment. I suspect Reagan would make an exception.

---

Is a desire to see the VP hanged considered sedition?


Shortly after hundreds of rioters at the Capitol started chanting "Hang Mike Pence!" on Jan. 6, 2021, the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, left the dining room off the Oval Office, walked into his own office and told colleagues that President Donald J. Trump was complaining that the vice president was being whisked to safety.
Mr. Meadows, according to an account provided to the House committee investigating Jan. 6, then told the colleagues that Mr. Trump had said something to the effect of, maybe Mr. Pence should be hanged.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/us/politics/trump-pence-jan-6.html?

Consider the "source". It's more likely by now that the 'chant' was started by FBI infiltrators and taken up only by a couple absolute morons.

If that is your "evidence", you are well and truly just pursuing a witch hunt based on lies and spite.

Oldbear83 said:

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Consider the "source". It's more likely by now that the 'chant' was started by FBI infiltrators and taken up only by a couple absolute morons.

If that is your "evidence", you are well and truly just pursuing a witch hunt based on lies and spite.

---

The point is Trump agreed with the chant, whoever started the chant.

Nobody denies that the chants of "Hang Mike Pence" occurred. I have seen nothing in reputable media accusing the FBI of initiating the chants.

Nobody denies that Trump said what his COS witnessed.

Do you have a link?

Oso: The point is Trump agreed with the chant, whoever started the chant.

False. That claim is not supported by any evidence or credible witness.

Oso :"Nobody denies that the chants of "Hang Mike Pence" occurred. I have seen nothing in reputable media accusing the FBI of initiating the chants."

Actually, the 'hang Pence' claims all come from Trump haters, there is no video or audio recording to support it. And the FBI infiltration is well-established fact.

Oso: "Nobody denies that Trump said what his COS witnessed."

Again, there is nothing - at all - to support that claim, you just repeat it because you want it to true.

No one bothers denying a temper tantrum or a madman's rant; the falsity is apparent and needs no echo.

You might want to step away from politics if this level of delusion and paranoia is continuing for you, Oso.

You used to be much better than baseless rants. Such a pity.

Osodecentx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Consider the "source". It's more likely by now that the 'chant' was started by FBI infiltrators and taken up only by a couple absolute morons.

If that is your "evidence", you are well and truly just pursuing a witch hunt based on lies and spite.

---

The point is Trump agreed with the chant, whoever started the chant.

Nobody denies that the chants of "Hang Mike Pence" occurred. I have seen nothing in reputable media accusing the FBI of initiating the chants.

Nobody denies that Trump said what his COS witnessed.

Do you have a link?

---

Mark Meadows says Trump seemed sanguine about the suggestion that Pence be hanged.

I think Mike Pence is a namby-pamby, nancy-boy sellout. But it's telling that Pence wouldn't get in the car with the Secret Service. He was more afraid of them than he was of staying at the Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/26/pence-car-raskin-comments/

J.B.Katz said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Consider the "source". It's more likely by now that the 'chant' was started by FBI infiltrators and taken up only by a couple absolute morons.

If that is your "evidence", you are well and truly just pursuing a witch hunt based on lies and spite.

---

The point is Trump agreed with the chant, whoever started the chant.

Nobody denies that the chants of "Hang Mike Pence" occurred. I have seen nothing in reputable media accusing the FBI of initiating the chants.

Nobody denies that Trump said what his COS witnessed.

Do you have a link?

---

Mark Meadows says Trump seemed sanguine about the suggestion that Pence be hanged.

I think Mike Pence is a namby-pamby, nancy-boy sellout. But it's telling that Pence wouldn't get in the car with the Secret Service. He was more afraid of them than he was of staying at the Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/26/pence-car-raskin-comments/

---

Quite the fairy tale from WaPo, and pretty much every one on the Left in this matter.

None of the people who say bad things about Trump are credible. We know they're not credible because they're saying bad things about Trump.