Presser ended after the officer answered a couple of questions, but there are gaps and confusion surrounding contradictions in the information we've been given so far.

— Reese Oxner (@reeseoxner) May 26, 2022

cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

Sounds like the Justice process in this instance was expedited.

---

except hes not talking about the Justice process, why should 21 people have to die to root out one psycho?

---

Until pre-crime is invented, we're stuck with prosecuting criminals that commit crimes or killing them during apprehension.

To "root out" a psycho like this guy requires a lot more trimming off of rights, not gun rights, to be effective.

---

Theres plenty of things you can do, obviously we dont know everything about this particular case right now and im sure more things will be come apparent, but not even touching on Gun rights, theres a lot more that can be done with Mental Health care (something your Governor acknowledged, despite having cut 200 million dollars from Mental Health Care budgets in the state)

We can help these people (when possible, it wont always be possible, im sure) before they end up feeling that a School Shooting is the best way to resolve their problems

---

That didn't happen. Where did you get that talking point?

GrowlTowel said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

Sounds like the Justice process in this instance was expedited.

---

except hes not talking about the Justice process, why should 21 people have to die to root out one psycho?

---

Until pre-crime is invented, we're stuck with prosecuting criminals that commit crimes or killing them during apprehension.

To "root out" a psycho like this guy requires a lot more trimming off of rights, not gun rights, to be effective.

---

Theres plenty of things you can do, obviously we dont know everything about this particular case right now and im sure more things will be come apparent, but not even touching on Gun rights, theres a lot more that can be done with Mental Health care (something your Governor acknowledged, despite having cut 200 million dollars from Mental Health Care budgets in the state)

We can help these people (when possible, it wont always be possible, im sure) before they end up feeling that a School Shooting is the best way to resolve their problems

---

That didn't happen. Where did you get that talking point?

---

https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-calls-texas-school-shooting-232258543.html?ncid=twitter_yahoonewst_sjwumo1bpf4

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/gov-abbotts-mental-health-cuts-under-scrutiny-after-deadly-school-shooting/

cms186 said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

Sounds like the Justice process in this instance was expedited.

---

except hes not talking about the Justice process, why should 21 people have to die to root out one psycho?

---

Until pre-crime is invented, we're stuck with prosecuting criminals that commit crimes or killing them during apprehension.

To "root out" a psycho like this guy requires a lot more trimming off of rights, not gun rights, to be effective.

---

Theres plenty of things you can do, obviously we dont know everything about this particular case right now and im sure more things will be come apparent, but not even touching on Gun rights, theres a lot more that can be done with Mental Health care (something your Governor acknowledged, despite having cut 200 million dollars from Mental Health Care budgets in the state)

We can help these people (when possible, it wont always be possible, im sure) before they end up feeling that a School Shooting is the best way to resolve their problems

---

That didn't happen. Where did you get that talking point?

---

https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-calls-texas-school-shooting-232258543.html?ncid=twitter_yahoonewst_sjwumo1bpf4

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/gov-abbotts-mental-health-cuts-under-scrutiny-after-deadly-school-shooting/

---

Which of these two articles illustrates that Greg Abbott cut 200 million dollars from "mental health care?" The legislature didn't even assemble this year.

Nice try though.

Not surprising that the Democrat leader would lie about the bill he blocked that parents of Parkland victims have been trying to pass for years.

Dems aren’t looking for solutions, they want wedge issues that they hope will keep them in power. Sick. https://t.co/f4zbNb03ey

— Senator Ron Johnson (@SenRonJohnson) May 26, 2022

This was a bill I worked on with the parents of Parkland victims. It’s named after them. You’re a liar and a hack. https://t.co/WKFMLTjT4x

— Rick Scott (@SenRickScott) May 25, 2022

cms186 said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

Sounds like the Justice process in this instance was expedited.

---

except hes not talking about the Justice process, why should 21 people have to die to root out one psycho?

---

Until pre-crime is invented, we're stuck with prosecuting criminals that commit crimes or killing them during apprehension.

To "root out" a psycho like this guy requires a lot more trimming off of rights, not gun rights, to be effective.

---

Theres plenty of things you can do, obviously we dont know everything about this particular case right now and im sure more things will be come apparent, but not even touching on Gun rights, theres a lot more that can be done with Mental Health care (something your Governor acknowledged, despite having cut 200 million dollars from Mental Health Care budgets in the state)

We can help these people (when possible, it wont always be possible, im sure) before they end up feeling that a School Shooting is the best way to resolve their problems

---

That didn't happen. Where did you get that talking point?

---

https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-calls-texas-school-shooting-232258543.html?ncid=twitter_yahoonewst_sjwumo1bpf4

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/gov-abbotts-mental-health-cuts-under-scrutiny-after-deadly-school-shooting/

---

I would really like to articles from that at the time. Not saying you're wrong but those kind of headlines also tend to be misleading.

For example earlier this year I saw articles claim New York State was cutting their education budget by like 400 million while giving a billionaire sports owner subsides to build a new stadium. When the reality was New York State was rolling back spending from Covid stuff for education. It was always a one time bump, it wasn't a "cut". And their spending was set to increase as before to pre Covid levels.

Yep there have been 8 shootings in Mexico the last 20 years. USA had 280+ in the same time period/

Because of drug laws jacking up the prices of drugs that cost pennies to produce, the cartels are dangerous.

Texans are twice as safe in Mexico and three times safer in Mexico than in Houston.

https://vallarta.grandvelas.com/newsroom/hotel/americanssaferinmexico YEs I know its a crappy source but I dont have time to go dig data on other sites

bearsocal said:

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cms186 said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

Sounds like the Justice process in this instance was expedited.

---

except hes not talking about the Justice process, why should 21 people have to die to root out one psycho?

---

Until pre-crime is invented, we're stuck with prosecuting criminals that commit crimes or killing them during apprehension.

To "root out" a psycho like this guy requires a lot more trimming off of rights, not gun rights, to be effective.

---

Theres plenty of things you can do, obviously we dont know everything about this particular case right now and im sure more things will be come apparent, but not even touching on Gun rights, theres a lot more that can be done with Mental Health care (something your Governor acknowledged, despite having cut 200 million dollars from Mental Health Care budgets in the state)

We can help these people (when possible, it wont always be possible, im sure) before they end up feeling that a School Shooting is the best way to resolve their problems

---

That didn't happen. Where did you get that talking point?

---

https://news.yahoo.com/abbott-calls-texas-school-shooting-232258543.html?ncid=twitter_yahoonewst_sjwumo1bpf4

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/gov-abbotts-mental-health-cuts-under-scrutiny-after-deadly-school-shooting/

---

I would really like to articles from that at the time. Not saying you're wrong but those kind of headlines also tend to be misleading.

For example earlier this year I saw articles claim New York State was cutting their education budget by like 400 million while giving a billionaire sports owner subsides to build a new stadium. When the reality was New York State was rolling back spending from Covid stuff for education. It was always a one time bump, it wasn't a "cut". And their spending was set to increase as before to pre Covid levels.

---

Thats fair, headlines can be misleading, theres this report which cites Texas as being the worst state in the Country for Mental Health care: https://mhanational.org/issues/2022/mental-health-america-access-care-data

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Yep there have been 8 shootings in Mexico the last 20 years. USA had 280+ in the same time period/

Because of drug laws jacking up the prices of drugs that cost pennies to produce, the cartels are dangerous.

Texans are twice as safe in Mexico and three times safer in Mexico than in Houston.

https://vallarta.grandvelas.com/newsroom/hotel/americanssaferinmexico YEs I know its a crappy source but I dont have time to go dig data on other sites

---

So we can close the border and keep illegals in Mexico rather than allowing them in the much more dangerous USA?

https://news.yahoo.com/finally-know-43-students-bus-085745755.html

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Yep there have been 8 shootings in Mexico the last 20 years. USA had 280+ in the same time period/

Because of drug laws jacking up the prices of drugs that cost pennies to produce, the cartels are dangerous.

Texans are twice as safe in Mexico and three times safer in Mexico than in Houston.

https://vallarta.grandvelas.com/newsroom/hotel/americanssaferinmexico YEs I know its a crappy source but I dont have time to go dig data on other sites

---

any houston folks have pics from their last vacation to fresnillo or juarez?

cms186 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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cms186 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

"Modern Journalism exists for two reasons. To make money off selling advertisement space and to advance a certain type of political discourse…almost always of a liberal and progressive style."

"Journalists have internalized the Marxist idea that media should not reflect the world but shape it, and you get a vast relativized competitive media-sphere where power and force are the only things that matter."

---

yep, deflect away that one of your state politicians thinks the answer to this tragedy is convicting a corpse and not bothered about preventing Kids getting murdered, I would too

---

No one is deflecting.

What you are doing is called creating a straw man to attack easier.

What the reporters are doing, and have been doing for a very long time, is pretending to be neutral fact finders protected by the 1st amendment while actually being party hacks and progressive activists.

---

I havent created anything, this shooting actually happened, the shooter died, as they commonly do, either killed by the Police or by committing suicide. This State politician said those words, i didnt create them out of thin air and the Journalist (who i know nothing about) responded as to why those words were absolutely ridiculous, both in general and in the particular instance, but yeah, its me and the Journalist who are in the wrong here

---

Show the exact quote. Not a tweet claiming it was said. I find it odd the tweet included no name, no article, etc.

J.B.Katz said:

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Heather Cox Richardson's analysis.

Remember, this week CPAC met in Hungary, where Victor Orban has effectively ended democracy. The 'great America" Trump supporters want to bring back, was an America where infrastructure investments and basic safety nets like Social Security meant a large middle class.

All day, I have been coming back to this: How have we arrived at a place where 90% of Americans want to protect our children from gun violence, and yet those who are supposed to represent us in government are unable, or unwilling, to do so?


This is a central problem not just for the issue of gun control, but for our democracy itself.

It seems that during the Cold War, American leaders came to treat democracy and capitalism as if they were interchangeable. So long as the United States embraced capitalism, by which they meant an economic system in which individuals, rather than the state, owned the means of production, liberal democracy would automatically follow.

That theory seemed justified by the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. The crumbling of that communist system convinced democratic nations that they had won, they had defeated communism, their system of government would dominate the future. Famously, in 1992, political philosopher Francis ***uyama wrote that humanity had reached "the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government." In the 1990s, America's leaders believed that the spread of capitalism would turn the world democratic as it delivered to them global dominance, but they talked a lot less about democracy than they did about so-called free markets.

In fact, the apparent success of capitalism actually undercut democracy in the U.S. The end of the Cold War was a gift to those determined to destroy the popular liberal state that had regulated business, provided a basic social safety net, and invested in infrastructure since the New Deal. They turned their animosity from the Soviet Union to the majority at home, those they claimed were bringing communism to America. "For 40 years conservatives fought a two-front battle against statism, against the Soviet empire abroad and the American left at home," right-wing operative Grover Norquist said in 1994. "Now the Soviet Union is gone and conservatives can redeploy. And this time, the other team doesn't have nuclear weapons."

Republicans cracked down on Democrats trying to preserve the active government that had been in place since the 1930s. Aided by talk radio hosts, they increasingly demonized their domestic political opponents. In the 1990 midterm elections, a political action committee associated with House Republican whip Newt Gingrich gave to Republican candidates a document called "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control." It urged candidates to label Democrats with words like "decay," "failure," "crisis," "pathetic," "liberal," "radical," "corrupt," and "taxes," while defining Republicans with words like "opportunity," "moral," "courage," "flag," "children," "common sense," "hard work," and "freedom." Gingrich later told the New York Times his goal was "reshaping the entire nation through the news media."

Their focus on capitalism undermined American democracy. They objected when the Democrats in 1993 made it easier to register to vote by passing the so-called Motor-Voter Act, permitting voters to register at certain state offices. The next year, losing Republican candidates argued that Democrats had won their elections with "voter fraud." In 1996, House and Senate Republicans each launched yearlong investigations into what they insisted were problematic elections, one in Louisiana and one in California. Ultimately, they turned up nothing, but keeping the cases in front of the media for a year helped to convince Americans that voter fraud was a serious issue and that Democrats were winning elections thanks to illegal, usually immigrant, voters.

In 2010 the Supreme Court green-lit the flood of corporate money into our political system with the Citizens' United decision; in 2013 it gutted the provision of the 1965 Voting Rights Act requiring the Department of Justice to sign off on changes to election laws in some states, prompting a slew of discriminatory voter ID laws. In 2010, REDMAP (Redistricting Majority Project) enabled Republicans to take over state legislatures and gerrymander the states dramatically in their own favor.

At the same time, the rise of a market-based economy in the former Soviet republics made it clear that capitalism and democracy were not interchangeable. An oligarchy rose from the ashes of the USSR, and U.S. leaders embraced the leaders of that new system as allies. That allyship has gone so far that this week, the Conservative Political Action Conference held a conference in Hungary, where leader Viktor Orbn, who was a keynote speaker at the event, has openly rejected democracy. At the conference, he called for the right in the U.S. to join forces with those like him; yesterday, he declared martial law in his country.

At home, where our focus on free markets has stacked our political system in favor of the Republicans, the vast majority of Americans want reasonable gun laws, reproductive rights, action on climate change, equality before the law, infrastructure funding, and so on, and their representatives are unable to get those things.
Capitalism, it seems, is also trumping democracy at home.

---

Ah yes... back to Trump attacks instead of responding to posts directly asking you questions. Typical.

cowboycwr said:

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cms186 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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cms186 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

"Modern Journalism exists for two reasons. To make money off selling advertisement space and to advance a certain type of political discourse…almost always of a liberal and progressive style."

"Journalists have internalized the Marxist idea that media should not reflect the world but shape it, and you get a vast relativized competitive media-sphere where power and force are the only things that matter."

---

yep, deflect away that one of your state politicians thinks the answer to this tragedy is convicting a corpse and not bothered about preventing Kids getting murdered, I would too

---

No one is deflecting.

What you are doing is called creating a straw man to attack easier.

What the reporters are doing, and have been doing for a very long time, is pretending to be neutral fact finders protected by the 1st amendment while actually being party hacks and progressive activists.

---

I havent created anything, this shooting actually happened, the shooter died, as they commonly do, either killed by the Police or by committing suicide. This State politician said those words, i didnt create them out of thin air and the Journalist (who i know nothing about) responded as to why those words were absolutely ridiculous, both in general and in the particular instance, but yeah, its me and the Journalist who are in the wrong here

---

Show the exact quote. Not a tweet claiming it was said. I find it odd the tweet included no name, no article, etc.

---

heres the video, at around the 2 minute mark:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-host-alisyn-camerota-confronts-texas-republican-james-white-why-do-you-protect-embryos-but-not-children

cms186 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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cms186 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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cms186 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

"Modern Journalism exists for two reasons. To make money off selling advertisement space and to advance a certain type of political discourse…almost always of a liberal and progressive style."

"Journalists have internalized the Marxist idea that media should not reflect the world but shape it, and you get a vast relativized competitive media-sphere where power and force are the only things that matter."

---

yep, deflect away that one of your state politicians thinks the answer to this tragedy is convicting a corpse and not bothered about preventing Kids getting murdered, I would too

---

No one is deflecting.

What you are doing is called creating a straw man to attack easier.

What the reporters are doing, and have been doing for a very long time, is pretending to be neutral fact finders protected by the 1st amendment while actually being party hacks and progressive activists.

---

I havent created anything, this shooting actually happened, the shooter died, as they commonly do, either killed by the Police or by committing suicide. This State politician said those words, i didnt create them out of thin air and the Journalist (who i know nothing about) responded as to why those words were absolutely ridiculous, both in general and in the particular instance, but yeah, its me and the Journalist who are in the wrong here

---

Show the exact quote. Not a tweet claiming it was said. I find it odd the tweet included no name, no article, etc.

---

heres the video, at around the 2 minute mark:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-host-alisyn-camerota-confronts-texas-republican-james-white-why-do-you-protect-embryos-but-not-children

---

Yup. Thank you.

So that just proves the tweet was a lie. There was no saying gun reform was unnecessary. That phrase was not used. So the tweet lied and combined things said by others or early in that interview into one statement.

A flat out lie that you jumped on.

cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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cms186 said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

cms186 said:

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JUST IN: CNN reporter Alisyn Camerota just confronted a Republican Texas state representative who said gun reform is unnecessary because we should just “convict” the shooters: “Sir, you can’t convict him. He was killed along with 19 children in the school behind me.”

— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) May 25, 2022

---

Sounds like the Justice process in this instance was expedited.

---

except hes not talking about the Justice process, why should 21 people have to die to root out one psycho?

---

Until pre-crime is invented, we're stuck with prosecuting criminals that commit crimes or killing them during apprehension.

To "root out" a psycho like this guy requires a lot more trimming off of rights, not gun rights, to be effective.

---

Theres plenty of things you can do, obviously we dont know everything about this particular case right now and im sure more things will be come apparent, but not even touching on Gun rights, theres a lot more that can be done with Mental Health care (something your Governor acknowledged, despite having cut 200 million dollars from Mental Health Care budgets in the state)

We can help these people (when possible, it wont always be possible, im sure) before they end up feeling that a School Shooting is the best way to resolve their problems

---

Who do you think my Governor is? And what exactly can you do against something like this? Put all children from broken homes on a monitor list that expires when they're 25? Give government greater authority to monitor individual social media accounts like access to everyone's text, SnapChat, etc.?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Yep there have been 8 shootings in Mexico the last 20 years. USA had 280+ in the same time period/

Because of drug laws jacking up the prices of drugs that cost pennies to produce, the cartels are dangerous.

Texans are twice as safe in Mexico and three times safer in Mexico than in Houston.

https://vallarta.grandvelas.com/newsroom/hotel/americanssaferinmexico YEs I know its a crappy source but I dont have time to go dig data on other sites

---

C'mon. The cartels kill people en masse regularly.

The first stats are for school shootings. The second is for tourists. The cartels are violent against eAch other and sometimes locals that cross them.

So what's the shooting numbers for Mexican tourists in America? That seems more apples to apples.

White House says President Biden is not considering 'doing anything' to get rid of the Second Amendment https://t.co/kWMgSUvA4m

— Fox News (@FoxNews) May 26, 2022

Cobretti said:

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White House says President Biden is not considering 'doing anything' to get rid of the Second Amendment https://t.co/kWMgSUvA4m

— Fox News (@FoxNews) May 26, 2022

---

How magnanimous of him to recognize that approval of 38 states would be required to repeal the Second Amendment. Now the reporter asking that question might need some help on the Constitution.

Gov. Greg Abbott was scheduled to attend, but will instead remain in Uvalde. He will provide a pre-recorded message to be played at the NRA convention in Houston. https://t.co/jxfOyoCsVh

— WFAA (@wfaa) May 27, 2022

This kid bought $3,000 worth of weaponry. I'll be curious to hear how he got that much money.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/AR-style-rifles-like-the-one-used-in-Uvalde-17199402.php

AR-style rifles like the one used in Uvalde shooting often leave victims unrecognizable, experts say

The gunman who killed 21 people at a small south Texas school and wounded 17 others used a pricey assault-style rifle manufactured by the Georgia-based arms manufacturer.

The Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 rifle, which retails for $1,870, can be sold in Texas gun shops to anyone who is 18 or older and passes a background check.

The Houston Chronicle previously reported that the Uvalde gunman, Salvador Ramos, purchased two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the days immediately after his 18th birthday, which was on May 16. One weapon was the Daniel Defense rifle; the other was a Smith & Wesson MP 15, which retails for about $1,300.

On its website, Daniel Defense touts the DDM4 V7's 16-inch barrel, an improved "flash suppressor," and an ambidextrous charging handle, among many other features.

The gunman sent a screenshot of his purchase receipt to an Instagram user showing he'd purchased the weapon.

Authorities said the gunman's trail of violence began when he shot his grandmother. She survived, and called police. He then drove to Robb Elementary School, crashed into a railing, and then made his way inside, where he barricaded himself in a 4th grade classroom and began shooting students. According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the shooter left the Smith & Wesson in his car, but headed to the school with the Daniel Defense rifle and at least seven 30-round magazines.

By the end of it all, he'd killed 19 children and two adults and wounded 17 others, police said.

The purchase

The rifle produced by the Georgia-based is one of a slew of assault style rifles modeled after the ArmaLite AR-15, which was manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. It weighs about 6 pounds.

Many details surrounding this week's massacre remain unclear: among them, how an 18-year-old high school dropout working at a Wendy's was able to afford more than $3,000 of weaponry.

To receive the firearm, the teen gunman had to go to a local gun shop to request a transfer and get a criminal background check. Hearst reporters confirmed that he went to Outback Oasis in Uvalde for the rifle.

Investigators including agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives visited Oasis Outback to inquire about that purchase and whether he bought anything else.

The shop's owner said Wednesday that his business is "cooperating with the police," but he declined to provide further details, saying he would only provide information to investigators.

A sign at the store, which also sells sporting goods and has a restaurant, said the shop charges $30 to transfer one gun from an online vendor and $10 for each additional firearm, with a maximum of five guns per transfer.

The phone at Daniel Defense ran unanswered Thursday, and no one responded to an electronic message.

But the incident has undoubtedly brought negative attention to the Georgia-based arms manufacturing company that has grown into a firearms manufacturing powerhouse with sales of nearly $100 million, according to Forbes.

The company was founded by Marty Daniel in 2001; a year later, he landed a $20 million contract parts for M4 rifles the military counterpart of AR-style civilian rifles to be used by U.S. Special Forces operators in combat.

Daniel told Forbes that calls for gun control after the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012 led to a spike in sales.

"That was a horrible event and we don't use those kinds of terrible things to drive sales," he told the magazine in 2017, "but when people see politicians start talking about gun control, they have this fear and they go out and buy guns."

The American rifle

AR-style rifles have exploded in popularity over the past few decades. Much of the initial interest came from U.S. military veterans, who had come to appreciate the M4 during their time in the armed forces, said Michael Cargill, a US Army veteran who owns the Austin-based Texas Central Gun Works.

"A lot of people who have been in the military the US Army, the (US) Marine Corps, the Air Force, they all used M4s," he said. "That's why it's popular. It's almost like the American rifle."

The weapons are excellent for hunting targets at long range, he said, noting many hunters enjoy using the weapons while going after hogs, deer or similar prey. And they travel further and do far more damage than what you might see from a handgun, he said, likening it to the difference in damage one might see when a Toyota Prius got into a crash vs. a tractor trailer.

"The 18 wheeler is going to go further," he said. "It's more powerful, designed to go further, and going to take a longer time to stop."

Rifle-fired slugs also do far more damage when they hit a human body than many handgun caliber bullets, said one pediatric surgeon who spoke to the Chronicle.

"There's a really really wide blast effect," said Dr. Bindi Naik-Mathuriat, a pediatric surgeon and firearms violence researcher at the Baylor College of Medicine. "The injury is a much wider zone , and the hole is just the tip of the iceberg."

In movies, bullets might only leave a small hole, she explained. But a bullet fired from a rifle was likely to leave far more damage; tearing through organs, leaving a cavity in its wake of shredded organs or veins, leading to profuse bleeding and far lower survivability rates.

"They are much more dangerous," she said. "It's much harder for a surgeon to save someone shot with one of those than a handgun."

That is why medical staffers took swabs of victims' family members Tuesday night. Victims of such weapons are often unrecognizable.

boognish_bear said:

---

This kid bought $3,000 worth of weaponry. I'll be curious to hear how he got that much money.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/AR-style-rifles-like-the-one-used-in-Uvalde-17199402.php

AR-style rifles like the one used in Uvalde shooting often leave victims unrecognizable, experts say

The gunman who killed 21 people at a small south Texas school and wounded 17 others used a pricey assault-style rifle manufactured by the Georgia-based arms manufacturer.

The Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 rifle, which retails for $1,870, can be sold in Texas gun shops to anyone who is 18 or older and passes a background check.

The Houston Chronicle previously reported that the Uvalde gunman, Salvador Ramos, purchased two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the days immediately after his 18th birthday, which was on May 16. One weapon was the Daniel Defense rifle; the other was a Smith & Wesson MP 15, which retails for about $1,300.

On its website, Daniel Defense touts the DDM4 V7's 16-inch barrel, an improved "flash suppressor," and an ambidextrous charging handle, among many other features.

The gunman sent a screenshot of his purchase receipt to an Instagram user showing he'd purchased the weapon.

Authorities said the gunman's trail of violence began when he shot his grandmother. She survived, and called police. He then drove to Robb Elementary School, crashed into a railing, and then made his way inside, where he barricaded himself in a 4th grade classroom and began shooting students. According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the shooter left the Smith & Wesson in his car, but headed to the school with the Daniel Defense rifle and at least seven 30-round magazines.

By the end of it all, he'd killed 19 children and two adults and wounded 17 others, police said.

The purchase

The rifle produced by the Georgia-based is one of a slew of assault style rifles modeled after the ArmaLite AR-15, which was manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. It weighs about 6 pounds.

Many details surrounding this week's massacre remain unclear: among them, how an 18-year-old high school dropout working at a Wendy's was able to afford more than $3,000 of weaponry.

To receive the firearm, the teen gunman had to go to a local gun shop to request a transfer and get a criminal background check. Hearst reporters confirmed that he went to Outback Oasis in Uvalde for the rifle.

Investigators including agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives visited Oasis Outback to inquire about that purchase and whether he bought anything else.

The shop's owner said Wednesday that his business is "cooperating with the police," but he declined to provide further details, saying he would only provide information to investigators.

A sign at the store, which also sells sporting goods and has a restaurant, said the shop charges $30 to transfer one gun from an online vendor and $10 for each additional firearm, with a maximum of five guns per transfer.

The phone at Daniel Defense ran unanswered Thursday, and no one responded to an electronic message.

But the incident has undoubtedly brought negative attention to the Georgia-based arms manufacturing company that has grown into a firearms manufacturing powerhouse with sales of nearly $100 million, according to Forbes.

The company was founded by Marty Daniel in 2001; a year later, he landed a $20 million contract parts for M4 rifles the military counterpart of AR-style civilian rifles to be used by U.S. Special Forces operators in combat.

Daniel told Forbes that calls for gun control after the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012 led to a spike in sales.

"That was a horrible event and we don't use those kinds of terrible things to drive sales," he told the magazine in 2017, "but when people see politicians start talking about gun control, they have this fear and they go out and buy guns."

The American rifle

AR-style rifles have exploded in popularity over the past few decades. Much of the initial interest came from U.S. military veterans, who had come to appreciate the M4 during their time in the armed forces, said Michael Cargill, a US Army veteran who owns the Austin-based Texas Central Gun Works.

"A lot of people who have been in the military the US Army, the (US) Marine Corps, the Air Force, they all used M4s," he said. "That's why it's popular. It's almost like the American rifle."

The weapons are excellent for hunting targets at long range, he said, noting many hunters enjoy using the weapons while going after hogs, deer or similar prey. And they travel further and do far more damage than what you might see from a handgun, he said, likening it to the difference in damage one might see when a Toyota Prius got into a crash vs. a tractor trailer.

"The 18 wheeler is going to go further," he said. "It's more powerful, designed to go further, and going to take a longer time to stop."

Rifle-fired slugs also do far more damage when they hit a human body than many handgun caliber bullets, said one pediatric surgeon who spoke to the Chronicle.

"There's a really really wide blast effect," said Dr. Bindi Naik-Mathuriat, a pediatric surgeon and firearms violence researcher at the Baylor College of Medicine. "The injury is a much wider zone , and the hole is just the tip of the iceberg."

In movies, bullets might only leave a small hole, she explained. But a bullet fired from a rifle was likely to leave far more damage; tearing through organs, leaving a cavity in its wake of shredded organs or veins, leading to profuse bleeding and far lower survivability rates.

"They are much more dangerous," she said. "It's much harder for a surgeon to save someone shot with one of those than a handgun."

That is why medical staffers took swabs of victims' family members Tuesday night. Victims of such weapons are often unrecognizable.

---

I feel like "journalists" today just walk around looking for anyone with any random credential to stay stupid **** and spread disinformation. Ultracrepidarianism mixed with the worship of "experts" is spreading more disinformation than anything.

So odd that drunk driving victims can't sue automakers.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

This kid bought $3,000 worth of weaponry. I'll be curious to hear how he got that much money.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/AR-style-rifles-like-the-one-used-in-Uvalde-17199402.php

AR-style rifles like the one used in Uvalde shooting often leave victims unrecognizable, experts say

The gunman who killed 21 people at a small south Texas school and wounded 17 others used a pricey assault-style rifle manufactured by the Georgia-based arms manufacturer.

The Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 rifle, which retails for $1,870, can be sold in Texas gun shops to anyone who is 18 or older and passes a background check.

The Houston Chronicle previously reported that the Uvalde gunman, Salvador Ramos, purchased two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the days immediately after his 18th birthday, which was on May 16. One weapon was the Daniel Defense rifle; the other was a Smith & Wesson MP 15, which retails for about $1,300.

On its website, Daniel Defense touts the DDM4 V7's 16-inch barrel, an improved "flash suppressor," and an ambidextrous charging handle, among many other features.

The gunman sent a screenshot of his purchase receipt to an Instagram user showing he'd purchased the weapon.

Authorities said the gunman's trail of violence began when he shot his grandmother. She survived, and called police. He then drove to Robb Elementary School, crashed into a railing, and then made his way inside, where he barricaded himself in a 4th grade classroom and began shooting students. According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the shooter left the Smith & Wesson in his car, but headed to the school with the Daniel Defense rifle and at least seven 30-round magazines.

By the end of it all, he'd killed 19 children and two adults and wounded 17 others, police said.

The purchase

The rifle produced by the Georgia-based is one of a slew of assault style rifles modeled after the ArmaLite AR-15, which was manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. It weighs about 6 pounds.

Many details surrounding this week's massacre remain unclear: among them, how an 18-year-old high school dropout working at a Wendy's was able to afford more than $3,000 of weaponry.

To receive the firearm, the teen gunman had to go to a local gun shop to request a transfer and get a criminal background check. Hearst reporters confirmed that he went to Outback Oasis in Uvalde for the rifle.

Investigators including agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives visited Oasis Outback to inquire about that purchase and whether he bought anything else.

The shop's owner said Wednesday that his business is "cooperating with the police," but he declined to provide further details, saying he would only provide information to investigators.

A sign at the store, which also sells sporting goods and has a restaurant, said the shop charges $30 to transfer one gun from an online vendor and $10 for each additional firearm, with a maximum of five guns per transfer.

The phone at Daniel Defense ran unanswered Thursday, and no one responded to an electronic message.

But the incident has undoubtedly brought negative attention to the Georgia-based arms manufacturing company that has grown into a firearms manufacturing powerhouse with sales of nearly $100 million, according to Forbes.

The company was founded by Marty Daniel in 2001; a year later, he landed a $20 million contract parts for M4 rifles the military counterpart of AR-style civilian rifles to be used by U.S. Special Forces operators in combat.

Daniel told Forbes that calls for gun control after the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012 led to a spike in sales.

"That was a horrible event and we don't use those kinds of terrible things to drive sales," he told the magazine in 2017, "but when people see politicians start talking about gun control, they have this fear and they go out and buy guns."

The American rifle

AR-style rifles have exploded in popularity over the past few decades. Much of the initial interest came from U.S. military veterans, who had come to appreciate the M4 during their time in the armed forces, said Michael Cargill, a US Army veteran who owns the Austin-based Texas Central Gun Works.

"A lot of people who have been in the military the US Army, the (US) Marine Corps, the Air Force, they all used M4s," he said. "That's why it's popular. It's almost like the American rifle."

The weapons are excellent for hunting targets at long range, he said, noting many hunters enjoy using the weapons while going after hogs, deer or similar prey. And they travel further and do far more damage than what you might see from a handgun, he said, likening it to the difference in damage one might see when a Toyota Prius got into a crash vs. a tractor trailer.

"The 18 wheeler is going to go further," he said. "It's more powerful, designed to go further, and going to take a longer time to stop."

Rifle-fired slugs also do far more damage when they hit a human body than many handgun caliber bullets, said one pediatric surgeon who spoke to the Chronicle.

"There's a really really wide blast effect," said Dr. Bindi Naik-Mathuriat, a pediatric surgeon and firearms violence researcher at the Baylor College of Medicine. "The injury is a much wider zone , and the hole is just the tip of the iceberg."

In movies, bullets might only leave a small hole, she explained. But a bullet fired from a rifle was likely to leave far more damage; tearing through organs, leaving a cavity in its wake of shredded organs or veins, leading to profuse bleeding and far lower survivability rates.

"They are much more dangerous," she said. "It's much harder for a surgeon to save someone shot with one of those than a handgun."

That is why medical staffers took swabs of victims' family members Tuesday night. Victims of such weapons are often unrecognizable.

---

I feel like "journalists" today just walk around looking for anyone with any random credential to stay stupid **** and spread disinformation. Ultracrepidarianism mixed with the worship of "experts" is spreading more disinformation than anything.

---

What is the disinformation?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

The first stats are for school shootings. The second is for tourists. The cartels are violent against eAch other and sometimes locals that cross them.

---

And Mormons.

boognish_bear said:

---

This kid bought $3,000 worth of weaponry. I'll be curious to hear how he got that much money.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/AR-style-rifles-like-the-one-used-in-Uvalde-17199402.php

AR-style rifles like the one used in Uvalde shooting often leave victims unrecognizable, experts say

The gunman who killed 21 people at a small south Texas school and wounded 17 others used a pricey assault-style rifle manufactured by the Georgia-based arms manufacturer.

The Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 rifle, which retails for $1,870, can be sold in Texas gun shops to anyone who is 18 or older and passes a background check.

The Houston Chronicle previously reported that the Uvalde gunman, Salvador Ramos, purchased two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the days immediately after his 18th birthday, which was on May 16. One weapon was the Daniel Defense rifle; the other was a Smith & Wesson MP 15, which retails for about $1,300.

On its website, Daniel Defense touts the DDM4 V7's 16-inch barrel, an improved "flash suppressor," and an ambidextrous charging handle, among many other features.

The gunman sent a screenshot of his purchase receipt to an Instagram user showing he'd purchased the weapon.

Authorities said the gunman's trail of violence began when he shot his grandmother. She survived, and called police. He then drove to Robb Elementary School, crashed into a railing, and then made his way inside, where he barricaded himself in a 4th grade classroom and began shooting students. According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the shooter left the Smith & Wesson in his car, but headed to the school with the Daniel Defense rifle and at least seven 30-round magazines.

By the end of it all, he'd killed 19 children and two adults and wounded 17 others, police said.

The purchase

The rifle produced by the Georgia-based is one of a slew of assault style rifles modeled after the ArmaLite AR-15, which was manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. It weighs about 6 pounds.

Many details surrounding this week's massacre remain unclear: among them, how an 18-year-old high school dropout working at a Wendy's was able to afford more than $3,000 of weaponry.

To receive the firearm, the teen gunman had to go to a local gun shop to request a transfer and get a criminal background check. Hearst reporters confirmed that he went to Outback Oasis in Uvalde for the rifle.

Investigators including agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives visited Oasis Outback to inquire about that purchase and whether he bought anything else.

The shop's owner said Wednesday that his business is "cooperating with the police," but he declined to provide further details, saying he would only provide information to investigators.

A sign at the store, which also sells sporting goods and has a restaurant, said the shop charges $30 to transfer one gun from an online vendor and $10 for each additional firearm, with a maximum of five guns per transfer.

The phone at Daniel Defense ran unanswered Thursday, and no one responded to an electronic message.

But the incident has undoubtedly brought negative attention to the Georgia-based arms manufacturing company that has grown into a firearms manufacturing powerhouse with sales of nearly $100 million, according to Forbes.

The company was founded by Marty Daniel in 2001; a year later, he landed a $20 million contract parts for M4 rifles the military counterpart of AR-style civilian rifles to be used by U.S. Special Forces operators in combat.

Daniel told Forbes that calls for gun control after the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012 led to a spike in sales.

"That was a horrible event and we don't use those kinds of terrible things to drive sales," he told the magazine in 2017, "but when people see politicians start talking about gun control, they have this fear and they go out and buy guns."

The American rifle

AR-style rifles have exploded in popularity over the past few decades. Much of the initial interest came from U.S. military veterans, who had come to appreciate the M4 during their time in the armed forces, said Michael Cargill, a US Army veteran who owns the Austin-based Texas Central Gun Works.

"A lot of people who have been in the military the US Army, the (US) Marine Corps, the Air Force, they all used M4s," he said. "That's why it's popular. It's almost like the American rifle."

The weapons are excellent for hunting targets at long range, he said, noting many hunters enjoy using the weapons while going after hogs, deer or similar prey. And they travel further and do far more damage than what you might see from a handgun, he said, likening it to the difference in damage one might see when a Toyota Prius got into a crash vs. a tractor trailer.

"The 18 wheeler is going to go further," he said. "It's more powerful, designed to go further, and going to take a longer time to stop."

Rifle-fired slugs also do far more damage when they hit a human body than many handgun caliber bullets, said one pediatric surgeon who spoke to the Chronicle.

"There's a really really wide blast effect," said Dr. Bindi Naik-Mathuriat, a pediatric surgeon and firearms violence researcher at the Baylor College of Medicine. "The injury is a much wider zone , and the hole is just the tip of the iceberg."

In movies, bullets might only leave a small hole, she explained. But a bullet fired from a rifle was likely to leave far more damage; tearing through organs, leaving a cavity in its wake of shredded organs or veins, leading to profuse bleeding and far lower survivability rates.

"They are much more dangerous," she said. "It's much harder for a surgeon to save someone shot with one of those than a handgun."

That is why medical staffers took swabs of victims' family members Tuesday night. Victims of such weapons are often unrecognizable.

---

I wonder if the Houston Chronicle has ever provided this much gore and detail when writing articles on abortion? Just curious...

boognish_bear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

This kid bought $3,000 worth of weaponry. I'll be curious to hear how he got that much money.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/AR-style-rifles-like-the-one-used-in-Uvalde-17199402.php

AR-style rifles like the one used in Uvalde shooting often leave victims unrecognizable, experts say

The gunman who killed 21 people at a small south Texas school and wounded 17 others used a pricey assault-style rifle manufactured by the Georgia-based arms manufacturer.

The Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 rifle, which retails for $1,870, can be sold in Texas gun shops to anyone who is 18 or older and passes a background check.

The Houston Chronicle previously reported that the Uvalde gunman, Salvador Ramos, purchased two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the days immediately after his 18th birthday, which was on May 16. One weapon was the Daniel Defense rifle; the other was a Smith & Wesson MP 15, which retails for about $1,300.

On its website, Daniel Defense touts the DDM4 V7's 16-inch barrel, an improved "flash suppressor," and an ambidextrous charging handle, among many other features.

The gunman sent a screenshot of his purchase receipt to an Instagram user showing he'd purchased the weapon.

Authorities said the gunman's trail of violence began when he shot his grandmother. She survived, and called police. He then drove to Robb Elementary School, crashed into a railing, and then made his way inside, where he barricaded himself in a 4th grade classroom and began shooting students. According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the shooter left the Smith & Wesson in his car, but headed to the school with the Daniel Defense rifle and at least seven 30-round magazines.

By the end of it all, he'd killed 19 children and two adults and wounded 17 others, police said.

The purchase

The rifle produced by the Georgia-based is one of a slew of assault style rifles modeled after the ArmaLite AR-15, which was manufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. It weighs about 6 pounds.

Many details surrounding this week's massacre remain unclear: among them, how an 18-year-old high school dropout working at a Wendy's was able to afford more than $3,000 of weaponry.

To receive the firearm, the teen gunman had to go to a local gun shop to request a transfer and get a criminal background check. Hearst reporters confirmed that he went to Outback Oasis in Uvalde for the rifle.

Investigators including agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives visited Oasis Outback to inquire about that purchase and whether he bought anything else.

The shop's owner said Wednesday that his business is "cooperating with the police," but he declined to provide further details, saying he would only provide information to investigators.

A sign at the store, which also sells sporting goods and has a restaurant, said the shop charges $30 to transfer one gun from an online vendor and $10 for each additional firearm, with a maximum of five guns per transfer.

The phone at Daniel Defense ran unanswered Thursday, and no one responded to an electronic message.

But the incident has undoubtedly brought negative attention to the Georgia-based arms manufacturing company that has grown into a firearms manufacturing powerhouse with sales of nearly $100 million, according to Forbes.

The company was founded by Marty Daniel in 2001; a year later, he landed a $20 million contract parts for M4 rifles the military counterpart of AR-style civilian rifles to be used by U.S. Special Forces operators in combat.

Daniel told Forbes that calls for gun control after the Sandy Hook massacre in 2012 led to a spike in sales.

"That was a horrible event and we don't use those kinds of terrible things to drive sales," he told the magazine in 2017, "but when people see politicians start talking about gun control, they have this fear and they go out and buy guns."

The American rifle

AR-style rifles have exploded in popularity over the past few decades. Much of the initial interest came from U.S. military veterans, who had come to appreciate the M4 during their time in the armed forces, said Michael Cargill, a US Army veteran who owns the Austin-based Texas Central Gun Works.

"A lot of people who have been in the military the US Army, the (US) Marine Corps, the Air Force, they all used M4s," he said. "That's why it's popular. It's almost like the American rifle."

The weapons are excellent for hunting targets at long range, he said, noting many hunters enjoy using the weapons while going after hogs, deer or similar prey. And they travel further and do far more damage than what you might see from a handgun, he said, likening it to the difference in damage one might see when a Toyota Prius got into a crash vs. a tractor trailer.

"The 18 wheeler is going to go further," he said. "It's more powerful, designed to go further, and going to take a longer time to stop."

Rifle-fired slugs also do far more damage when they hit a human body than many handgun caliber bullets, said one pediatric surgeon who spoke to the Chronicle.

"There's a really really wide blast effect," said Dr. Bindi Naik-Mathuriat, a pediatric surgeon and firearms violence researcher at the Baylor College of Medicine. "The injury is a much wider zone , and the hole is just the tip of the iceberg."

In movies, bullets might only leave a small hole, she explained. But a bullet fired from a rifle was likely to leave far more damage; tearing through organs, leaving a cavity in its wake of shredded organs or veins, leading to profuse bleeding and far lower survivability rates.

"They are much more dangerous," she said. "It's much harder for a surgeon to save someone shot with one of those than a handgun."

That is why medical staffers took swabs of victims' family members Tuesday night. Victims of such weapons are often unrecognizable.

---

I feel like "journalists" today just walk around looking for anyone with any random credential to stay stupid **** and spread disinformation. Ultracrepidarianism mixed with the worship of "experts" is spreading more disinformation than anything.

---

What is the disinformation?

---

sigh...

First saying that rifle caliber and hand gun are different caliber. They can be but they can also be the same caliber.

Second saying that the rifle is always going to do more damage. A .22 hand gun or rifle will not do the same amount of damage as a .50 rifle or handgun.

There are plenty of handguns that will do more damage than small caliber rifles.

Third, stopping time for vehicles. The size is not the only factor in stopping time. Speed plays a huge role. Even in an accident.

And finally the cavity/damage done is not dependent on rifle or handgun but back to the caliber (size) of the bullet.

AR-style weapons are uniquely efficient at killing people. There's no point in denying that. It's what they were designed for.

Sam Lowry said:

---

AR-style weapons are uniquely efficient at killing people. There's no point in denying that. It's what they were designed for.

---

Weapons are efficient at killing. It is what they are designed for and what they have been designed for since humans started tying rocks to sticks.

Wangchung said:

---

So odd that drunk driving victims can't sue automakers.

---

probably because one of the Primary design purposes for Cars isnt to make them more efficient at Killing people (in fact they are actively designed to make it harder for them to be deadly), the same cannot be said for Guns

cms186 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

So odd that drunk driving victims can't sue automakers.

---

probably because one of the Primary design purposes for Cars isnt to make them more efficient at Killing people (in fact they are actively designed to make it harder for them to be deadly), the same cannot be said for Guns

---

Seems that deaths that happen after all those designs for other reasons would be more of a reason to sue ford very time a drunk driver kills someone. Guns are used defensively over 500,000 times a year in the US, so the idea that guns are only meant for murder is not accurate.

Wangchung said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

So odd that drunk driving victims can't sue automakers.

---

probably because one of the Primary design purposes for Cars isnt to make them more efficient at Killing people (in fact they are actively designed to make it harder for them to be deadly), the same cannot be said for Guns

---

Seems that deaths that happen after all those designs for other reasons would be more of a reason to sue ford very time a drunk driver kills someone. Guns are used defensively over 500,000 times a year in the US, so the idea that guns are only meant for murder is not accurate.

---

I didnt say they were, but if want to try the tired old cliche linking deaths by Guns and deaths by Cars, then you are de facto accepting that you want regulations and restrictions on who can own guns. Theres a great video I saw when Obama was asked about wanting to take peoples Guns away in a Town Hall, he replied, using the Cars analogy, that the CDC had been allowed to investigate the issue and partly because of that research, but also because of Government Pressure, the Auto Industry had been forced to make profound changes in Car Design to make them safer and the Government introduced new Road Layouts and designs to make them safer.

The CDC (last i checked) is not allowed to do the same for Guns.

- You need Insurance to legally drive a Car

- You need to pass a Driving Test to legally drive a Car (This Insurance is often cheaper if you keep your Car in a Garage or something safe like that), If you then show you are not responsible enough to operate your Car (Speeding, Drunk Driving, etc.) you get your Licence taken away for a period of time

- Cars (at least in my country, i dont know the rules you have in the States) have to undergo a Yearly inspection by a Mechanic to ensure they are Safe to use on the Roads

etc. etc.

cms186 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

So odd that drunk driving victims can't sue automakers.

---

probably because one of the Primary design purposes for Cars isnt to make them more efficient at Killing people (in fact they are actively designed to make it harder for them to be deadly), the same cannot be said for Guns

---

Seems that deaths that happen after all those designs for other reasons would be more of a reason to sue ford very time a drunk driver kills someone. Guns are used defensively over 500,000 times a year in the US, so the idea that guns are only meant for murder is not accurate.

---

I didnt say they were, but if want to try the tired old cliche linking deaths by Guns and deaths by Cars, then you are de facto accepting that you want regulations and restrictions on who can own guns. Theres a great video I saw when Obama was asked about wanting to take peoples Guns away in a Town Hall, he replied, using the Cars analogy, that the CDC had been allowed to investigate the issue and partly because of that research, but also because of Government Pressure, the Auto Industry had been forced to make profound changes in Car Design to make them safer and the Government introduced new Road Layouts and designs to make them safer.

The CDC (last i checked) is not allowed to do the same for Guns.

- You need Insurance to legally drive a Car

- You need to pass a Driving Test to legally drive a Car (This Insurance is often cheaper if you keep your Car in a Garage or something safe like that), If you then show you are not responsible enough to operate your Car (Speeding, Drunk Driving, etc.) you get your Licence taken away for a period of time

- Cars (at least in my country, i dont know the rules you have in the States) have to undergo a Yearly inspection by a Mechanic to ensure they are Safe to use on the Roads

etc. etc.

---

Not really the topic when discussing liability of gun/car manufacturers when a crazy or drunk person misuses either inanimate object.
But the main difference is driving is merely a privilege, self protection is a constitutionally enshrined right not to be infringed.