Sam Lowry said:
whiterock said:
Osodecentx said:
whiterock said:
Osodecentx said:
Canada2017 said:
Osodecentx said:
Married A Horn said:
Should it happen? Arent both sides completely sick of each other? We are closer to civil war than we are getting along with each other. Splitting up into red & blue is so much netter than war.
Would you be fore or against?
I vote yes, separate. The alternatives are ugly. And this way everyone gets what they want.
I vote no
What are your reasons ?
Really believe this country have avoid a cultural blood bath down the road ?
The calls for a war or a division of states comes from a loud but very, very small group with a social media megaphone. Call 10 of your acquaintances today and ask them if the country should separate into 2 of more countries. I have and nobody I know even understands the question.
The USA has always had regions that were different economically and socially. A few examples come to mind.
Before the Civil War the NE was the population and financial center of the country. The regions were very different
After the Civil War the South was in a Depression for decades. The NE prospered. The regions were very different.
Now the population is moving south and southwest. The NE is socially very different from the south and SW. I won't be telling NYC residents how to live. I think their choices are destructive in the long run, but c'est la vie.
My long term view of the country is pessimistic. I think the country is in irreversible decline because of financial and societal decisions. I just don't believe we divide up before we augur in. See what happens when the grid goes down or the financial system crashes.
These questions have been polled from time to time and the numbers, depending on the way the question is worded range between 20-40%.
I'm not saying my friends & acquaintances are a representative sample of the US population.
Do you have a link to the polls handy. I'm curious how they asked the question
I'll have to fire up the laptop to get some links. At one point in the Obama years, Texas secession got to 39% in one poll. My assessment at the time was that ANY 2-digit number was a signal of struggling social contract.
Usually, the question is asked in context of how likely the respondent thought civil war would occur. I don't recall a number below 20%. Again, any 2-digit number is significant = "what the hell is going on here?"
I know I have a link to Kessler's "Cold Civil War" article. It is one of several of the type which echoes themes I've posted here. Liberals have left Classical Liberalism and allied with Progressives, who control most of the culture producing institutions, which puts both in a feedback loop which tells progressives they've won the argument and makes liberals mis-perceive that they are near the political center. And other pathologies flow from there. Capital is always the glue. It will play to the last card to avoid the fight.
At the moment, capital thinks it can pander to progressives on culture and does not yet perceive the threat that conservatives and working class see right up in their grille. But drag shows at school are galvanizing things quickly. Almost every capitalist is a parent or grandparent.
There is very, very little common ground between right and left at the moment. Regime politics. One side tries to undo the work of the other, work originally done in no small part to limit the other.
There will be no compromise. One side will win, and the other will lose. Outcome uncertain but I like our chances. It would be game over if the neverTrumpers would quit virtue posturing
I used to think your domestic policy was almost as nihilistic as your foreign policy, but I was wrong. It's worse!
We are not in Kansas anymore. Have you heard that the RPT Convention this month passed a resolution urging the Texas Legislature to put secession on the ballot? That it barely made the news is itself worthy of some analysis. The RPT Convention is not a small thing, not a bunch of nuts in a back room. It's the largest political convention in the world, over 9000 delegates.
Here's one on national division from almost a year ago.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/563221-shocking-poll-finds-many-americans-now-want-to/To be clear: the odds of actual secession/division happening are vanishingly small. but when you see polling results like link, you know there are serious social pathologies going on, two in particular. One, a growing number of people are just tired of all the division - "geez, just let them have their room and tell me where mine is." Two, a growing number of people do not see a practical way to bridge the divisions - "Not no, but hell no. Who do these people think they are?" And is that latter that drives my assessment about the shrinking political middle - the right has gone as far as they're willing to go, and the left has become increasingly shrill, punishing not just dissent but lack of enthusiasm. That drives the wide range of polls over the last few years showing that people are increasingly refusing to socialize or date across the political aisle.
The dynamic that typically binds in times like this is pretty simple: lower and middle classes have more latitude to be principled in their political choices. They have little or nothing to lose. It's the upper classes who have enough wealth to temper their political sensibilities. Yeah, a wealthy person might think X, but instability rarely improves wealth (unless you're the one driving the instability). So it's capital considerations which typically provide the most resilient centripetal force. The other big centripetal forces are social institutions, and most of those have already failed, or are in process of doing so. They no longer beckon to commonality, but are driving social justice (which a growing majority of the public are rising to reject.) That's why we see the issue of division/secession popping up in polling from time to time. The centre has not held. A new one is going to have to form. And the Trump coalition (with or without him) is the leading contender - multi-racial working class. That's a big tent which can incorporate a lot of diversity of all types. The social justice coalition is too upper-class white, too intellectual, and most importantly is actively disinterested in reaching out to incorporate by anything other than force. You either join them or you are canceled. They are bullies. And ordinary people hate bullies. Ergo the enduring strength of the Trump coalition.
We should be able to get thru it. And progressives are probably going to lose. But it is going to be a very bumpy ride. And in such exercises, there's always a chance.....