Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The top 10 reasons that the Christian faith will survive
What is your forecast?

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2. Saving souls that they may have life abundantly

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Saving them from what exactly? From what do you believe they are saved? For it is a matter of what Jesus is saving us for which is abundant life in him.

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You made the statement that it's saving them. I am curious what you are saving them from? Is it just giving them, a better life? Or is there actually some real danger they are being saved from, in your belief?

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Jesus offers us abundant life and again what does that mean to you? Abundant life is what Jesus offers us. What say you?

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It means what he said, in John 10:10: "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." Unlike the thief, the Lord Jesus does not come for selfish reasons. He comes that people may have life in Him that is meaningful, purposeful, joyful, and eternal. We receive this abundant life the moment we accept Him as our Savior.

So do you believe he's saving us from the thief who comes to steal, and to kill, and to destroy, like Jesus said? Who is the thief? Is he saving us from the thief?

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Who is the thief? John 10:10 reads in context "7 Therefore Jesus said again, "Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

Thieves, in context, are the ones who came before. The thief, today, for me, is anyone or thing or action that attempts to lead me away from the one who loves me -- wealth, greed, anger, disloyalty to spouse or friends, obesity, gossip, addiction, the desire to be right all the time, etc. -- these are the thieves.

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You're looking at the wrong passage. If you want to answer the question of what does Jesus save us from, you should start with John 3:16-18:

***For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.***

In light of that passage, what would you say that Jesus saves us from?

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Try again. "You should" does not help. Simply state your concept. I think you are onto something

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You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

Any thoughts, Waco1947?

JXL said:

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Any thoughts, Waco1947?

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Great question…. regardless of the thread.

Actually, 47 would be nuts to come on the board right now as he is in the Holy Land. To even give this board a second thought seems like a waste of time

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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JXL said:

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Any thoughts, Waco1947?

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Great question…. regardless of the thread.

Actually, 47 would be nuts to come on the board right now as he is in the Holy Land. To even give this board a second thought seems like a waste of time

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Well then I hope that he is having a good time and gaining spiritual insights.

Oops lol

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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JXL said:

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Any thoughts, Waco1947?

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Great question…. regardless of the thread.

Actually, 47 would be nuts to come on the board right now as he is in the Holy Land. To even give this board a second thought seems like a waste of time

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The Holy Land or his? Is he in Palestine or Auschwitz? I assume he'd rather follow in the steps of Margaret Sanger than Jesus.

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

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I wouldn't word it that way but I suppose it's close enough for discussion purposes.

Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

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Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

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Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

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Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

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It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

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It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

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My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

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It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

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My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

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Last sentence is laughable.

Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

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It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

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My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

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So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

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One scripture from column 1 two from column 2. Do you want egg roll with your salvation?

D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

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So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

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Warm, fuzzies. Never underestimate the power of warm, fuzzies.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

---

Warm, fuzzies. Never underestimate the power of warm, fuzzies.

---

You're getting tacky again. The power of the is not warm fuzzies as I have made clear numerous times.
I Corinthians 1:22 For Jews ask for signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to gentiles,
The "supernatural" or "sighs" are foolishness to God.

Waco1947 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

---

Warm, fuzzies. Never underestimate the power of warm, fuzzies.

---

You're getting tacky again. The power of the is not warm fuzzies as I have made clear numerous times.
I Corinthians 1:22 For Jews ask for signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to gentiles,
The "supernatural" or "sighs" are foolishness to God.

---

The entire concept of the God is supernatural. There is no power in the Gospel without a supernatural being doing supernatural things.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

---

Warm, fuzzies. Never underestimate the power of warm, fuzzies.

---

You're getting tacky again. The power of the is not warm fuzzies as I have made clear numerous times.
I Corinthians 1:22 For Jews ask for signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to gentiles,
The "supernatural" or "sighs" are foolishness to God.

---

The entire concept of the God is supernatural. There is no power in the Gospel without a supernatural being doing supernatural things.

---

Jesus and Paul both deride "signs" (supernatural)
The NT is clear about belief in the spiritual not the supernatural

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

---

Warm, fuzzies. Never underestimate the power of warm, fuzzies.

---

You're getting tacky again. The power of the is not warm fuzzies as I have made clear numerous times.
I Corinthians 1:22 For Jews ask for signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to gentiles,
The "supernatural" or "sighs" are foolishness to God.

---

The entire concept of the God is supernatural. There is no power in the Gospel without a supernatural being doing supernatural things.

---

Jesus and Paul both deride "signs" (supernatural)
The NT is clear about belief in the spiritual not the supernatural

---

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you can't be more wrong. The gospel of John is entirely about how Jesus' signs and miracles reveal to us who he is, and how they give us the reason to believe in him. It was the whole purpose of his gospel. John, giving an account of Jesus turning water into wine, said "Jesus performed this, the first of His signs, at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed His glory, and His disciples believed in Him." (John 2:11)

Then towards the end of his gospel, after recounting Jesus' many miracles, John writes: "Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name." (John 20:30)

Everything you are saying is utter falsehood. It straight up contradicts the Gospels directly.

You truly are speaking for the Devil.

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

So, if there is no "supernatural," how is it possible for Jesus to save us from our sin or set us on the right path or provide meaning to life?

---

Warm, fuzzies. Never underestimate the power of warm, fuzzies.

---

You're getting tacky again. The power of the is not warm fuzzies as I have made clear numerous times.
I Corinthians 1:22 For Jews ask for signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to gentiles,
The "supernatural" or "sighs" are foolishness to God.

---

The entire concept of the God is supernatural. There is no power in the Gospel without a supernatural being doing supernatural things.

---

Jesus and Paul both deride "signs" (supernatural)
The NT is clear about belief in the spiritual not the supernatural

---

Jesus didn't deride signs. Jesus PERFORMED signs. Jesus WAS a sign. Jesus fulfilled numerous prophecies.

You are a false teacher. You are from Satan.

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

How did this guy who lived and died 2000 years ago "save you from your sin" without supernatural power? What would have happened had he not done so?

I realize that it does not take supernatural power to find temporal meaning in one's life. People can find meaning in work, martial arts, Baylor football, volunteering, or any number of other things. But when you start getting into prayer, salvation, or a dead man who is in fact alive, you are dealing with the supernatural. If you don't want to believe in the supernatural, that's up to you, but you can't have it both ways.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL "You were asked a question which you answered by citing John 10:10. The "you should" was a suggestion that you answer the question with John 3:16, a more pertinent passage to the question you were asked.

To me, John 3:1618 means exactly what it says. God sent His Son so that the people of the world might be saved - saved from perishing in the second death, which is condemnation to eternal separation from God (a condition known as Hell). This salvation is brought about through belief in God and in the Son of God.

What do you think the passage means? What does it mean to say "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish?" Why is "he who believeth not condemned already?" Condemned to what? Saved from what? Why does it say "everlasting life" if it simply refers to an abundant life on Earth?

I want to be clear about what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus was sent to save us from the 'second death.' The second death (is eternal separation from God. Our salvation is brought about through 'belief" in God and in the Son of God.

My salvation is dependent on, first, God's saving act of Jesus on the cross and that act saves me from the eternal damnation of separation from God. If I 'believe' in this saving act of God through Christ then I am saved from eternal damnation.

Am I right? Is this what you believe?

---

Personally, i would say that this is half of the picture. What you are describing here is Jesus as Savior... but what is missing is Jesus as Lord.
Salvation is the first step, but then we need to learn to live under the lordship of Christ. If someone accepts Jesus as Savior, but rejects Jesus as Lord... then they are not truly saved from anything.

The parable of the Sower Seeds gives examples of this as the seeds among the thorns and the seeds along the path. The seeds on the path never take root, even though people joyful accept this message. So just accepting the salvation of Jesus isn't enough. It must take root. The seeds among the thorns actually do take root & grow, but they get choked out by worries, deceitfulness and greed. So we see once again that salvation alone isn't enough, as the seeds may grow but die before they can bear fruit.

Salvation and Lordship must go hand-in-hand... can't have one without the other.

---

Good point. At my confirmation I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Jesus as Lord is an on going surrender to his will daily. My salvation experience is a faith event in which I was convicted of my sin, forgiven of Jesus. In short Jesus lives an d I love Jesus and feed his lambs

---

It looks to me like your confirmation was suffused with supernaturalism. Jesus - a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago - is alive today? How does he forgive sin? And what does that mean? What would happen if you didn't believe he forgave your sin? If he is your Savior, what did he save you from, and how did he do that without supernatural power?

---

My confirmation was not "suffused" with supernaturalism. He saved me from a meaningless existence. He saved me from my sin and set my on a good and firm path.

I'm not sure what you're trying to acknowledge. This is my witness to my faith not yours and mine is as scriptural as yours.

---

How did this guy who lived and died 2000 years ago "save you from your sin" without supernatural power? What would have happened had he not done so?

I realize that it does not take supernatural power to find temporal meaning in one's life. People can find meaning in work, martial arts, Baylor football, volunteering, or any number of other things. But when you start getting into prayer, salvation, or a dead man who is in fact alive, you are dealing with the supernatural. If you don't want to believe in the supernatural, that's up to you, but you can't have it both ways.

---

by both ways, you mean warm and fuzzy?

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

Waco1947 said:

---

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

I think the word for that is "faith".

Wangchung said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

I think the word for that is "faith".

---

The word of Waco47 is " imposter " .

Waco1947 said:

---

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

You are the one arguing that a guy who lives 2000 years ago can forgive your sins. That is supernatural and beyond ordinary life. You cannot be a follower of a Christ who forgives sins while denying that God intervenes in history.

Waco1947 said:

---

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

If the supernatural signs of the Bible are not physically true, then there was no Resurrection and no forgiveness of sins, and your confirmation was a meaningless exercise in futility, as explained in 1 Cor. 15:14-19.

Wangchung said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

I think the word for that is "faith".

---

he's not familiar with the concept.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

You are the one arguing that a guy who lives 2000 years ago can forgive your sins. That is supernatural and beyond ordinary life. You cannot be a follower of a Christ who forgives sins while denying that God intervenes in history.

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Forgiving sins is not supernatural. Forgiving is sons is a spiritual gift from God.

Your arguments are still circular. No one has refuted it. Instead you dig in for more ugly attacks as if you are speaking Christ. A non Christian seeing how you talk would never come to faith.

Waco1947 said:

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Your arguments are still circular. No one has refuted it. Instead you dig in for more ugly attacks as if you are speaking Christ. A non Christian seeing how you talk would never come to faith.

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Where are my "ugly attacks?" And how can you argue that Jesus can forgive sins without something supernatural going on?

Waco1947 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

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You are the one arguing that a guy who lives 2000 years ago can forgive your sins. That is supernatural and beyond ordinary life. You cannot be a follower of a Christ who forgives sins while denying that God intervenes in history.

---

Forgiving sins is not supernatural. Forgiving is sons is a spiritual gift from God.

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If something is a "gift from God," it is supernatural.

Waco1947 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

You are the one arguing that a guy who lives 2000 years ago can forgive your sins. That is supernatural and beyond ordinary life. You cannot be a follower of a Christ who forgives sins while denying that God intervenes in history.

---

Forgiving sins is not supernatural. Forgiving is sons is a spiritual gift from God.

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Once again, How did this guy who lived and died 2000 years ago "save you from your sin" without supernatural power? What would have happened had he not done so?

JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Your arguments are circular
Premise the supernatural "signs" of the Bible are physically true
Premise they are supernatural and beyond ordinary life
Conclusion They are true because says they are true, not science.
Consequently the secular needs to suspend their knowledge of science and accept this reasoning.

---

You are the one arguing that a guy who lives 2000 years ago can forgive your sins. That is supernatural and beyond ordinary life. You cannot be a follower of a Christ who forgives sins while denying that God intervenes in history.

---

Forgiving sins is not supernatural. Forgiving is sons is a spiritual gift from God.

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Once again, How did this guy who lived and died 2000 years ago "save you from your sin" without supernatural power? What would have happened had he not done so?

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Ask ypour pastor. I'm sure he will back you up. Maybe a Sunday School lesson on it.