RMF5630 said:I don't think many on here are disagreeing with this point. I for one agree. The only issue I see is that Russia invaded, NATO did not choose the time for these policies or the US leader. Putin did, for all the reasons you say. So, this is a reaction, or opportune move, not a planned plan that we made the choice Biden is our guy...Canada2017 said:The last thing you do is begin a proxy war with a country possessing over 4000 hydrogen bombs .whiterock said:Canada2017 said:No argument .He Hate Me said:That ship done sailed with the development of the ICBM. We are going to be involved because we cannot affordCanada2017 said:Get past the shallow propaganda that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of US servicemen and millions of civilians in only the past 80 years.He Hate Me said:I dunno. I am not a real smart person. I just find it odd that anyone in this country is kvetching about supporting a small nation that wants to be free from an overbearing imperialist power. Especially one that has pointed nukes at us for over 60 years.Canada2017 said:Really think the average French peasant had the slightest clue or care about the US war of Independence ?He Hate Me said:
France: Why do we need to get into a proxy war with Britain and her colonies? We don't need to antagonize the British with their massive naval fleet and far reaching power. This is a family battle. Let the colonists figure it out.
French troops were sent by the French king and his ministers for ONE reason only.
To attack the interests of their mortal enemy.... Great Britain...... by depriving them of the economic bounty of the American colonies .
Out Founding Fathers constantly preached the message........the US should stay OUT of foreign wars.
Served our country well for over a century .Sovietumm Russian or Chinese expansion.
But now take this development to its obvious conclusion .
In this age of ICBM's why would anyone expect Russia to passively accept still another country along its border to join NATO and potentially place still more nuclear weapons aimed at Russia ?
Remember ....for weeks Putin repeatedly stated Ukrainian membership into NATO was an unacceptable risk to Russian security .
Biden ignored him .
Finally Putin places 200,000 Russian troops along the Ukrainian border .
The Biden administration through our incredibly ignorant VP Harris ....went to Europe where she STILL called for Ukraine to become a NATO ally.
Biden/Harris simply miscalculated . They thought Putin was bluffing with his 200,00 troops.
Most wars start just like this ....with hubris and stupidity .
When your enemy is acting with hubris and stupidity, the last thing you do is appeas
But if you are bound and determine to do it....you DON'T pick a time when your commander in chief is so old and decrepit that he literally dozes off in the middle of an interview .
When your commander in chief is so mentally impaired he publicly addresses comments to a congresswoman the rest of the world knows is already DEAD.
This situation is so dangerous, yet so obviously absurd ...it is almost funny .
Except for that little matter of potentially of vaporizing 1-3 billion people if either side blunders into further miscalculations .
If Trump, DeSantis, Pompeo or Halley was President, I suspect Putin would not have moved like this against Ukraine. Your points are correct in my opinion, Biden is less than adequate for this action, but the option is do nothing for 3 years...
So far so good.
But this is the point you either simply don't believe or don't think it's relevant…….
The United States under Obama INITIATED a fundamental change in the economic, political, and military make up in Ukraine. We 'aided' the election of a president friendly toward the United States , quietly sent our military into Ukraine to 'advise' and train with their troops, and invested billions of dollars into various industries of the country .
All of which took Ukraine further out of its traditional relationship with Russia . A relationship ( good or bad ) that had existed for centuries .
The eventual goal, of course , was to make Ukraine a trading partner of the West, a military partner of the West ….a member of NATO .
This dramatic change didn't occur in a vacuum…..didn't occur by magic . The United States actively engineered the process .
And every bit of this process was detrimental to the interests of the Russia .
Inevitably Putin and Russia pushed back ……repeatedly protesting this engineering …one that had the obvious goal of Ukrainian membership into NATO.
When it became clear words were not working ….Russia supplied weapons to ethnic Russians in the eastern provinces of Ukraine and began a proxy 'civil war ' . A civil war most Americans are only dimly aware ever existed .
The US investment politically and economically in Ukraine only increased under Biden .
Upping the ante …Putin placed 200,000 troops along the Ukrainian border . Again he repeated his message that Ukrainian membership into NATO ( with its obvious nuclear implications against Russia ) was an intolerable threat to Russian security.
Our mentally impaired president and our incredibly woke administration thought Putin was bluffing and basically told him to get stuffed .
VP Harris went to Europe and called for Ukrainian membership still again .
Russia invaded shortly afterward .
Sure the perpetually stupid can maintain the blinders and simply scream ' But Putin invaded '. But anyone with eyes can see the US clearly contributed to the situation.
Now if one says ' OK , we did contribute to beginning this war but I don't give a **** . Russia DESERVES this war '.
Ok, tell me why .
Why is it in the interests of the people of the United States to pay billions of dollars toward such a war ?
Why is it worthwhile to risk WW3 ?
Pulling Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence wasn't important to the United States for over 80 years .
Why is it worth risking WW3 ….NOW ?
