Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

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And they've desired not be for pretty much all of it.

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

I'm glad Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and a host of others didn't follow the advice of some folks on this board.

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

---

We did the same thing in El Salvador. We helped the anti-communist side with weapons, advisors and aid. This is not new US policy since 1949. This is not Biden coming up with some new stance to be tough. This is the consistent administration of policy. What we didn't do, we roll tanks in like Russia and Putin. That is the difference. Russia is the aggressor, the US was not the aggressor in El Salvador. If the communists don't pull their revolution crap to subjugate people and those people don't ask our help, we don't get militarily involved.

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

What part of 'spheres of influence' in the post WW2 nuclear age is incomprehensible to you ?

The US has invaded several countries in our hemisphere to 'protect national interests'.

Really think the US has the moral high ground in this Ukrainian carnage….think again .

trey3216 said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

whiterock said:

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Canada2017 said:

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As much as dislike Bide and his policies, I do not see him reshuffling nothing with Ukraine. Ukraine has a say in this decision. Russia gave up their "influence" when they agreed to Ukrainian sovereignty. Putin may not survive this mess in power.

Quote:

---

As for Taiwan, I cannot understand Biden's position. It seems to be pushing China to say the reward outweighs the cost.

---

As I have said before ……

If Russia had played the exact same game involving Mexico ….getting 'their man ' elected president then inviting Mexico to join the Warsaw Pact .

I doubt any president of the United States would tolerate it .
As such a defense agreement between Russia and Mexico could lead to the placement of Russian nuclear weapons unacceptably close to the US border .

Not sure how anyone can fail to understand such a comparison.

Would we invade Mexico like Putin finally invaded Ukraine ?

I don't know .

But US military chiefs WERE pushing Kennedy to invade Cuba if the Russians did not withdraw their missiles from the island

Instead Kennedy struck a deal and the US withdrew its nuclear missiles from Turkey after the Russians withdrew their missiles from Cuba ..

---

Everyone understands the part in bold, but it is not a relevant comparison to the current conflict. If that happened, we would invade Mexico, not Russia.

Supporting Ukrainian independence is an imminently safe and logical way to prevent a reconstituted Russian threat to Western Europe. .

---

A. EXACTLY. If Russia had spent millions of dollars meddling in Mexican politics and had their boy elected president of Mexico.
Who then requested Mexico's admission into the Warsaw Pact ……" we would invade Mexico not Russia ".

That is my point entirely.

As the US did meddle in Ukrainian politics, we did have our boy become president…..and we then constantly encouraged Ukraine to join NATO.

So how does anyone turn a blind eye to US actions that contributed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine ?

An invasion you admit the US might emulate if Mexico wanted to join the Warsaw Pact ?

Should Putin have invaded Ukraine …NO.

But it's naive to entertain the fantasy that the US didn't contribute to conditions that resulted in this war .


B. No we are not putting nuclear weapons in Ukraine now . But if Ukraine successfully joined NATO …such an option could certainly happen . Which is why Putin REPEATEDLY stated that Ukrainian membership into NATO is an unacceptable threat to Russian security.

A position the United States would certainly duplicate if Russia was to ultimately place its nuclear weapons in Mexico.


C. No, the Biden administration actions since the invasion have not been remotely 'safe' . You don't sabotage the natural gas pipelines of other nations in international waters . That is clearly an act of war .

You don't place 4700 airborne troops within easy air range of a war zone . It's ridiculously provocative and such under equipped units can do little more than generate an 'incident '.

Members of your government don't openly and repeatedly suggest regime change with the not so subtle call for assassination .

Your government does not PUBLICLY announce the placement of all the weapon systems beeping provided . Weapons that are killing Russian troops . Really think the Russian people appreciate such reminders .




The only reasonable course of action now is to negotiate a peace settlement.

Period .

---

You completely forgot to add the part where much of Ukraine's problems over the last 30 years (since their independence) is caused by Russia's continual subversive meddling in their government, intel channels, businesses, banking sector, etc. Ukraine has been trying to rid the stench of Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. But you want to blame Ukraine and the US for all of it. Insanity.

---

This. And it's not even close.

The US flagrantly invaded Panama….captured their president and put him in a US prison …where he remains TODAY.

We have invaded Grenada , Haiti , the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua , and attempted to invade Cuba .

How in the hell can anyone blissfully ignore the double standard this Biden administration is attempting to establish ?

All you internet Rambo's.

Which of you would accept Mexico in the Warsaw Pact ?

Which of you would accept Russian troops training alongside Mexican troops ?


Come on boys …….don't be shy all of a sudden ……speak up .

trey3216 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

I'm glad Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and a host of others didn't follow the advice of some folks on this board.

---

Classic ….absolutely classic.

All of the men you mentioned were vehemently against US involvement in any European wars .

Only when the British continued their policy of searching US merchant ships in international waters and arming Indian tribes to fight US colonists along the western border did the War of 1812 begin . A war much of the New England states refused to support .

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

---

They didn't have to go to Mexico to meddle in elections, they did it to us, and you fools cheered for it. It is absolutely wild to watch you dance around in histrionics about meddling in country's affairs while pretending like 2016 didn't happen. Not to mention what the've done to Ukraine just in this young century, including poisoning one of their Presidential candidates during a campaign (Paul Manafort was the campaign manager of the guy who benefited from that, btw).

Russia is a menace. To us, their neighbors, to all of Europe. They are the aggressor in this situation, not anyone else, and I imagine they are quite pleased for Americans to be arguing their position for them like you are.

Canada2017 said:

---

All you internet Rambo's.

Which of you would accept Mexico in the Warsaw Pact ?

Which of you would accept Russian troops training alongside Mexican troops ?


Could on boys ..step up .

---

Russia was tacitly approving (sponsoring?) hackers hitting our petroleum pipelines and food processing facilities early this year and last year. Russia, China, and Iran were going to do joint drills in Venezuela this past summer. How long of a leash do you give Ivan?

HuMcK said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

---

They didn't have to go to Mexico to meddle in elections, they did it to us, and you fools cheered for it. It is absolutely wild to watch you dance around in histrionics about meddling in country's affairs while pretending like 2016 didn't happen. Not to mention what the've done to Ukraine just in this young century, including poisoning one of their Presidential candidates during a campaign (Paul Manafort was the campaign manager of the guy who benefited from that, btw).

Russia is a menace. To us, their neighbors, to all of Europe. They are the aggressor in this situation, not anyone else, and I imagine they are quite pleased for Americans to be arguing their position for them like you are.

---

Dude…..you have long established yourself as a hopeless moron .

There is not a single word you type, on any topic , I give the slightest credence to.

HuMcK said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

---

They didn't have to go to Mexico to meddle in elections, they did it to us, and you fools cheered for it. It is absolutely wild to watch you dance around in histrionics about meddling in country's affairs while pretending like 2016 didn't happen. Not to mention what the've done to Ukraine just in this young century, including poisoning one of their Presidential candidates during a campaign (Paul Manafort was the campaign manager of the guy who benefited from that, btw).

Russia is a menace. To us, their neighbors, to all of Europe. They are the aggressor in this situation, not anyone else, and I imagine they are quite pleased for Americans to be arguing their position for them like you are.

---

I love the fever dreams that some still believe the Russia Hoax.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

---

They didn't have to go to Mexico to meddle in elections, they did it to us, and you fools cheered for it. It is absolutely wild to watch you dance around in histrionics about meddling in country's affairs while pretending like 2016 didn't happen. Not to mention what the've done to Ukraine just in this young century, including poisoning one of their Presidential candidates during a campaign (Paul Manafort was the campaign manager of the guy who benefited from that, btw).

Russia is a menace. To us, their neighbors, to all of Europe. They are the aggressor in this situation, not anyone else, and I imagine they are quite pleased for Americans to be arguing their position for them like you are.

---

I love the fever dreams that some still believe the Russia Hoax.

---

I love the fever dreams of people that don't think Russia meddled in our election, albeit with misplaced emphasis, completely oblivious to the desired outcome which was 100% achieved.

Russia absolutely meddled in our election. The thing is, they didn't give a **** who won the election. The desired goal was absolutely to foment dissent and drive the wedge further into American Political discord.

They won that battle. And the fact that both sides are still arguing about it comically evident that it was beyond successful.

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

All you internet Rambo's.

Which of you would accept Mexico in the Warsaw Pact ?

Which of you would accept Russian troops training alongside Mexican troops ?


Could on boys ..step up .

---

Russia was tacitly approving (sponsoring?) hackers hitting our petroleum pipelines and food processing facilities early this year and last year. Russia, China, and Iran were going to do joint drills in Venezuela this past summer. How long of a leash do you give Ivan?

---

You protect your own spheres of influence….just as we have as always done .

Just as Russia ( pushed by Obama and Biden ) are doing now .

These ****ed up proxy wars are always caused by some moron miscalculating their opponents response in these ****ing 'brinkmanship' games .

And it's always the innocent civilians getting killed …not these elite's who cause the carnage.

trey3216 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

Exactly

A crisis generated in part by US involvement in Ukrainian political, military and economic affairs .

Had dinner last night with a old friend ….a retired army officer.
He mentioned how US army units had been training in Ukraine
( his eldest son among them ) before the Russian invasion.

Now US army units are positioned in Rumania .


Yeah, if Russia was playing this routine in Mexico and other parts of Central America ….the US would be perfectly fine with it .

Who could possibly doubt it ?

---

They didn't have to go to Mexico to meddle in elections, they did it to us, and you fools cheered for it. It is absolutely wild to watch you dance around in histrionics about meddling in country's affairs while pretending like 2016 didn't happen. Not to mention what the've done to Ukraine just in this young century, including poisoning one of their Presidential candidates during a campaign (Paul Manafort was the campaign manager of the guy who benefited from that, btw).

Russia is a menace. To us, their neighbors, to all of Europe. They are the aggressor in this situation, not anyone else, and I imagine they are quite pleased for Americans to be arguing their position for them like you are.

---

I love the fever dreams that some still believe the Russia Hoax.

---

I love the fever dreams of people that don't think Russia meddled in our election, albeit with misplaced emphasis, completely oblivious to the desired outcome which was 100% achieved.

Russia absolutely meddled in our election. The thing is, they didn't give a **** who won the election. The desired goal was absolutely to foment dissent and drive the wedge further into American Political discord.

They won that battle. And the fact that both sides are still arguing about it comically evident that it was beyond successful.

---

I think the difference is that are those (like me) that acknowledge there have been foreign influence / meddling in every U.S. election in history. Then there are those that maintain this fever dream that 2016 was a singular event during which Russia colluded with the Trump campaign.

There is no evidence any foreign government preferred Trump. Quite the opposite in fact as Obiden surrendered to Russia multiple times and obviously there was a lot of Russian money flowing to The Big Guy.

He Hate Me said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

All you internet Rambo's.

Which of you would accept Mexico in the Warsaw Pact ?

Which of you would accept Russian troops training alongside Mexican troops ?


Could on boys ..step up .

---

Russia was tacitly approving (sponsoring?) hackers hitting our petroleum pipelines and food processing facilities early this year and last year. Russia, China, and Iran were going to do joint drills in Venezuela this past summer. How long of a leash do you give Ivan?

---

You totally AVOIDED a simple question .

Russia installs their hand picked boy as president of Mexico .

This new administration in Mexico applies for membership in the Warsaw Pact .

Thousands of Russian troops are training with Mexican troops in Mexico .


You good with it ?

Think ANY US administration would be good with it ?

trey3216 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

I'm glad Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and a host of others didn't follow the advice of some folks on this board.

---

Be glad they did. Otherwise they'd have wasted lives and treasure trying to drive the Brits out of India instead of building the greatest nation in the world.

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

And they've desired not be for pretty much all of it.

---

Exactly...nothing new.

Amazing. In one breath you talk about "no evidence" of Russian meddling to help Trump (which was contradicted by Trump's own agencies), and in the next you act like it's concrete fact that somehow Russia has paid Biden. That level of cognitive dissonance is almost impressive.

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

What part of 'spheres of influence' in the post WW2 nuclear age is incomprehensible to you ?

The US has invaded several countries in our hemisphere to 'protect national interests'.

Really think the US has the moral high ground in this Ukrainian carnage….think again .

---

Yes, we do have the moral high ground. Why? A - We didn't roll tanks into a sovereign nation. B-Ukraine asked us and NATO to help. C - We are not helping unilaterally. D- The UN voted against Russia 143 - 5. So, who supported the Russian annexation? Belarus, North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria.

I can pretty confidently say that when North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria are the only ones standing with you, you should look in the mirror. It is not a them issue, it is a you issue.

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

I'm glad Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and a host of others didn't follow the advice of some folks on this board.

---

Be glad they did. Otherwise they'd have wasted lives and treasure trying to drive the Brits out of India instead of building the greatest nation in the world.

---

No, they didn't. Because they revolted against the crown and created the best nation in the world.

HuMcK said:

---

Amazing. In one breath you talk about "no evidence" of Russian meddling to help Trump (which was contradicted by Trump's own agencies), and in the next you act like it's concrete fact that somehow Russia has paid Biden. That level of cognitive dissonance is almost impressive.

---

It's not really questionable that the Biden Family via Hunter received lavish gifts from Russian oligarchs. It's not really a question.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Amazing. In one breath you talk about "no evidence" of Russian meddling to help Trump (which was contradicted by Trump's own agencies), and in the next you act like it's concrete fact that somehow Russia has paid Biden. That level of cognitive dissonance is almost impressive.

---

It's not really questionable that the Biden Family via Hunter received lavish gifts from Russian oligarchs. It's not really a question.

---

He thinks Hunter smoking crack and hooking up with underage prostitutes is fake news, even though there's video evidence.

He will never entertain the idea that Hunter and Joe were involved with sketchy financial deals, even though there's clear email evidence.

Sam Lowry said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

And they've desired not be for pretty much all of it.

---

Exactly...nothing new.

---

So Sam. Does Ukraine's desire to be free of Russia count in this at all? Do they have any say? Or, because you and others believe they have been in the Russian "sphere of influence" for 220 years, their die is cast.

I can cite the amount down to the cent that Trump was paid by someone and withdrew from his Chinese bank account (that he lied about to conceal) while he was President. I can show you the memorandum of understanding he himself signed to open negotiations for building Trump Tower Moscow during the 2016 camapaign. The best you've got is someone saying they had lunch with VP Biden (guy doesn't even allege that he discussed business far as I can tell, just met with him), and a vague reference to "the big guy" as if that's definitive enough to to prove he was somehow profiting from his son's (not even direct involvement from Joe) business.

Given all that, and given that the prevailing conservative attitude is currently "they dont have to be a saint as long as long as they just vote the way I want", why should I even pretend to entertain your nebulous insinuations instead of just noting the obvious hypocrisy and calling it a day?

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

What part of 'spheres of influence' in the post WW2 nuclear age is incomprehensible to you ?

The US has invaded several countries in our hemisphere to 'protect national interests'.

Really think the US has the moral high ground in this Ukrainian carnage….think again .

---

Yes, we do have the moral high ground. Why? A - We didn't roll tanks into a sovereign nation. B-Ukraine asked us and NATO to help. C - We are not helping unilaterally. D- The UN voted against Russia 143 - 5. So, who supported the Russian annexation? Belarus, North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria.

I can pretty confidently say that when North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria are the only ones standing with you, you should look in the mirror. It is not a them issue, it is a you issue.

---

We have invaded Panama...shot the hell out of their security forces......took prisoner the PRESIDENT of the country ....and stuck him in our Federal Prison . Where he remained until 2007 .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

We invaded Cuba in the 60's in the Bay of Pigs fiasco . Attempted to assassinate Cuba's leader several times.
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Sent US special forces and weapons to El Salvador.....killing locals who dared opposite the government of our choosing .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Invaded Haiti , Grenada , Nicaragua . the Dominican Republic . Assassinated various leftist politicians in south and Central American throughout post WW2 altercations .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Get a ****ing clue .

There are no 'good guys' in all this insanity . Just national security interests.

Elitists playing their 'brinkmanship' games. Elitists trying to make money off various industrial opportunities generated by these 'brinkmanship' games.

This time it was Obama and later Joe 'brain damaged' Biden attempted to alter long established security arrangements . And don't kid yourself MILLIONS of dollars ended up in Ukrainian and Democratic pockets in the process.

Is Putin innocent in all this ? Of course not.

But Obama and Biden have contributed mightily this mess. And NOW Biden has placed 4700 ground troops within striking distance of the battlefield .


Unless we can somehow eliminate Putin...this war is only going to expand .

Look at our past history and connect the ****ing dots.

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

What part of 'spheres of influence' in the post WW2 nuclear age is incomprehensible to you ?

The US has invaded several countries in our hemisphere to 'protect national interests'.

Really think the US has the moral high ground in this Ukrainian carnage….think again .

---

Yes, we do have the moral high ground. Why? A - We didn't roll tanks into a sovereign nation. B-Ukraine asked us and NATO to help. C - We are not helping unilaterally. D- The UN voted against Russia 143 - 5. So, who supported the Russian annexation? Belarus, North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria.

I can pretty confidently say that when North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria are the only ones standing with you, you should look in the mirror. It is not a them issue, it is a you issue.

---

We have invaded Panama...shot the hell out of their security forces......took prisoner the PRESIDENT of the country ....and stuck him in our Federal Prison . Where he remained until 2007 .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

We invaded Cuba in the 60's in the Bay of Pigs fiasco . Attempted to assassinate Cuba's leader several times.
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Sent US special forces and weapons to El Salvador.....killing locals who dared opposite the government of our choosing .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Invaded Haiti , Grenada , Nicaragua . the Dominican Republic . Assassinated various leftist politicians in south and Central American throughout post WW2 altercations .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Get a ****ing clue .

There are no 'good guys' in all this insanity . Just national security interests.

Elitists playing their 'brinkmanship' games. Elitists trying to make money off various industrial opportunities generated by these 'brinkmanship' games.

This time it was Obama and later Joe 'brain damaged' Biden attempted to alter long established security arrangements . And don't kid yourself MILLIONS of dollars ended up in Ukrainian and Democratic pockets in the process.

Is Putin innocent in all this ? Of course not.

But Obama and Biden have contributed mightily this mess. And NOW Biden has placed 4700 ground troops within striking distance of the battlefield .

Connect the bloody dots.

---

The good or the bad is what happens to the population? How many places are worse off after the US intervenes??? Versus, how many happy Communists do you know? How many Venezuelans or Cubans?

You and everyone else that argues "sphere of influence" still do not answer what do the Ukrainians want? I know 2, she works with us. I had to verify we had hours on projects to justify he position. She literally just got her Grandmother out. Literally had to tell an 84 year old out, not to get in the trucks and go where the Russians want. They were trying to get people into Russia. This is first hand information. I can tell you, her situation is better here than in Russia and life in Ukraine was better before Putin decided it was his. I do not have any stories of people in Ukraine saying Putin is right, we welcome Russia...

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

For almost all of those 220 years, Ukraine has been under Russian rule in some form or another. Now suddenly it's a crisis.

---

So, in your view gaining sovereignty means nothing... It the colonial master wants you back, the world should stay out of it since they were your property for the last 220 years. What is the point of gaining sovereignty?

Sam, I wouldn't have taking you and Canada for colonialists...

---

What part of 'spheres of influence' in the post WW2 nuclear age is incomprehensible to you ?

The US has invaded several countries in our hemisphere to 'protect national interests'.

Really think the US has the moral high ground in this Ukrainian carnage….think again .

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Yes, we do have the moral high ground. Why? A - We didn't roll tanks into a sovereign nation. B-Ukraine asked us and NATO to help. C - We are not helping unilaterally. D- The UN voted against Russia 143 - 5. So, who supported the Russian annexation? Belarus, North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria.

I can pretty confidently say that when North Korea, Nicaragua, and Syria are the only ones standing with you, you should look in the mirror. It is not a them issue, it is a you issue.

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We have invaded Panama...shot the hell out of their security forces......took prisoner the PRESIDENT of the country ....and stuck him in our Federal Prison . Where he remained until 2007 .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

We invaded Cuba in the 60's in the Bay of Pigs fiasco . Attempted to assassinate Cuba's leader several times.
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Sent US special forces and weapons to El Salvador.....killing locals who dared opposite the government of our choosing .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Invaded Haiti , Grenada , Nicaragua . the Dominican Republic . Assassinated various leftist politicians in south and Central American throughout post WW2 altercations .
But somehow we are different than Russia in dominating our sphere of influence ?

Get a ****ing clue .

There are no 'good guys' in all this insanity . Just national security interests.

Elitists playing their 'brinkmanship' games. Elitists trying to make money off various industrial opportunities generated by these 'brinkmanship' games.

This time it was Obama and later Joe 'brain damaged' Biden attempted to alter long established security arrangements . And don't kid yourself MILLIONS of dollars ended up in Ukrainian and Democratic pockets in the process.

Is Putin innocent in all this ? Of course not.

But Obama and Biden have contributed mightily this mess. And NOW Biden has placed 4700 ground troops within striking distance of the battlefield .

Connect the bloody dots.

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The good or the bad is what happens to the population? How many places are worse off after the US intervenes??? Versus, how many happy Communists do you know? How many Venezuelans or Cubans?

You and everyone else that argues "sphere of influence" still do not answer what do the Ukrainians want? I know 2, she works with us. I had to verify we had hours on projects to justify he position. She literally just got her Grandmother out. Literally had to tell an 84 year old out, not to get in the trucks and go where the Russians want. They were trying to get people into Russia. This is first hand information. I can tell you, her situation is better here than in Russia and life in Ukraine was better before Putin decided it was his. I do not have any stories of people in Ukraine saying Putin is right, we welcome Russia...

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You still just don't get it .

The US killed tens of thousands of North Korean civilians ........think they love us for it ?

The US killed hundreds of thousands of civilians throughout Vietnam . Think any of them thought the geo political ramifications were worth it dying for ? Or the deaths of their kids was worth it ?

We bombed the living **** out of Iraqi .....killing tens of thousands of civilians in the process. Think the survivors of those dead family members love the US ? That Iraqi is such a better place now even with all of their relatives dead ?

The United States ...first , last and always .....has protected its own interests. But being a 'democracy' the elitists have to sell various fantasies first..... to our dumb as grass electorate.

So of course.....you are not going to see many US media stories about ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine who have been fighting for YEARS against the current Ukrainian central government .

That is simply not how propaganda works .

But the American people have fallen for the exact same BS as in Korea , Vietnam, Iraqi and Afghanistan .

Good God man ....95% of the American media had the incredible gall to suggest the Russians blew up their own natural gas pipelines ....rather than merely close the output values located in Russia .


And now...magically ...4700 US troops are acting as an obvious 'trip wire'.






Insanity

France: Why do we need to get into a proxy war with Britain and her colonies? We don't need to antagonize the British with their massive naval fleet and far reaching power. This is a family battle. Let the colonists figure it out.

He Hate Me said:

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France: Why do we need to get into a proxy war with Britain and her colonies? We don't need to antagonize the British with their massive naval fleet and far reaching power. This is a family battle. Let the colonists figure it out.

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Really think the average French peasant had the slightest clue or care about the US war of Independence ?

French troops were sent by the French king and his ministers for ONE reason only.





To attack the interests of their mortal enemy.... Great Britain...... by depriving them of the economic bounty of the American colonies .

He Hate Me said:

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Canada2017 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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France: Why do we need to get into a proxy war with Britain and her colonies? We don't need to antagonize the British with their massive naval fleet and far reaching power. This is a family battle. Let the colonists figure it out.

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Really think the average French peasant had the slightest clue or care about the US war of Independence ?

French troops were sent by the French king and his ministers for ONE reason only.





To attack the interests of their mortal enemy.... Great Britain...... by depriving them of the economic bounty of the American colonies .

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I dunno. I am not a real smart person. I just find it odd that anyone in this country is kvetching about supporting a small nation that wants to be free from an overbearing imperialist power. Especially one that has pointed nukes at us for over 60 years.

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Get past the shallow propaganda that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of US servicemen and millions of civilians in only the past 80 years.

The Founding Fathers constantly preached the message........the US should stay OUT of foreign wars.
Served our country well for over a century .