trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Good listen, but some of the items in there are not worded well...

1) Money being sent to Ukraine...
-It's really equipment, not money
2) The equipment we have sent to Ukraine is about 95% stuff that is basically being phased out of our own stockpiles, and actually scheduled for write-down.

i.e. Think about depreciation credits for owning rental property, or depreciation on an oil well. You get to write down a certain percentage and ultimately fully (in the case of military equipment) write it down when it is mothballed. Much of the stuff is on the mothball list. We are literally giving them stuff that has been paid for for decades, and now we get to write it down by giving it someone else.

This war is not going nuclear. Putin is a bully, but a scared bully. Every line that cannot be crossed on his list has been crossed, and nothing has been done other than his continuing their war to try and take over Ukraine.

This is absolute pandering by Tulsi, and misworded by both her and Rogen, and I like both of them quite a bit.

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What an absolute load of crap. We are not sending only old equipment about to be thrown away. We have sent new equipment and things no where close to being mothballed.

I mean just look at this list of items and tell me it is old junk

https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/

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You look back over it and tell me what is new junk, because nothing on that list is less than 20+ years old.

-Abrams Tanks? We're sending version 1's (they've been around since the early 80's)
-Bradleys? Sending non-active storage with new tires and some upgraded (not current) optics (they've been around since the late 70's in some form)
-M777 howitzers? We used them in Vietnam.
-Javelins & TOWs? Iraq 1
-HARMS? lol


The only things on that list that were not really deployed much until this century are drones, and even then, we had them.

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Even the Patriots are 30 year old tech.

cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Good listen, but some of the items in there are not worded well...

1) Money being sent to Ukraine...
-It's really equipment, not money
2) The equipment we have sent to Ukraine is about 95% stuff that is basically being phased out of our own stockpiles, and actually scheduled for write-down.

i.e. Think about depreciation credits for owning rental property, or depreciation on an oil well. You get to write down a certain percentage and ultimately fully (in the case of military equipment) write it down when it is mothballed. Much of the stuff is on the mothball list. We are literally giving them stuff that has been paid for for decades, and now we get to write it down by giving it someone else.

This war is not going nuclear. Putin is a bully, but a scared bully. Every line that cannot be crossed on his list has been crossed, and nothing has been done other than his continuing their war to try and take over Ukraine.

This is absolute pandering by Tulsi, and misworded by both her and Rogen, and I like both of them quite a bit.

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What an absolute load of crap. We are not sending only old equipment about to be thrown away. We have sent new equipment and things no where close to being mothballed.

I mean just look at this list of items and tell me it is old junk

https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/

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You look back over it and tell me what is new junk, because nothing on that list is less than 20+ years old.

-Abrams Tanks? We're sending version 1's (they've been around since the early 80's)
-Bradleys? Sending non-active storage with new tires and some upgraded (not current) optics (they've been around since the late 70's in some form)
-M777 howitzers? We used them in Vietnam.
-Javelins & TOWs? Iraq 1
-HARMS? lol


The only things on that list that were not really deployed much until this century are drones, and even then, we had them.

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So I provide a list of over 60 items and you pick out 5 and that means the rest are junk???

And then admit some are new.

and you can not get your facts right. The M777 Howitzer was not even thought of in Vietnam. The size gun (155mm) has been around since at least ww2. But the M777 was first produced in 1987. Long after Vietnam ended.

But the year of first production or even last production does not matter. How long have we been using C130s? Or B52s?

Stinger missiles are STILL CURRENTLY MADE. So sure maybe just maybe we are sending older ones that have sat on a warehouse shelf too long... but does that make them any less deadly? Does that mean we are not going to spend money to replace them?

Same for javelins. Which yeah they have been around for a long time but we still use them currently.

Stykers.... have ONLY been made in this century.

and about 20 other items on that list. So you were wrong in saying that the only thing we have deployed much in this century is drones since almost ALL of it has been deployed and used in this century.


So yeah other than the select 5 things you found on the list just about every single one is a newer item, currently being produced, or at minimum still being used.

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I have no problem with sending the equipment we have been sending. AS LONG AS IT IS REPLACED WITH TOP OF THE LINE STUFF. This is an opportunity to modernize our force in a way that you could not do with attrition.

Think about it. Since 911 we have been fighting terror interdiction missions. Basically, Light Infantry supportedf by Transportation forces. The US Military had a real concern that our equipment and tactics to fight a conventional war versus a peer or near-peer opponent was gone. With Ukraine we have been able to modernize our heavy divisions for the 21st century battlefield. The Marines are will under way. Army is about to get an influx of modern armor and mech capabilities. Needed to be done. AS LONG AS THEY DO IT!!!!

I read where weapons the Navy seized from Iranian smugglers supporting rebels in Yemen will be redirected to Ukraine. I like that type of budgetary reallocation.

ATL Bear said:

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I read where weapons the Navy seized from Iranian smugglers supporting rebels in Yemen will be redirected to Ukraine. I like that type of budgetary reallocation.

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How effective do you think crappy old Iranian made weapons (intended for illiterate Houthi rebels) will be?

Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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I read where weapons the Navy seized from Iranian smugglers supporting rebels in Yemen will be redirected to Ukraine. I like that type of budgetary reallocation.

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How effective do you think crappy old Iranian made weapons (intended for illiterate Houthi rebels) will be?

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AKs and millions of rounds of ammunition are always useful in a ground war. Majority of casualties in this war are from small arms.

ATL Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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I read where weapons the Navy seized from Iranian smugglers supporting rebels in Yemen will be redirected to Ukraine. I like that type of budgetary reallocation.

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How effective do you think crappy old Iranian made weapons (intended for illiterate Houthi rebels) will be?

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AKs and millions of rounds of ammunition are always useful in a ground war. Majority of casualties in this war are from small arms.

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They also have intercepted a bunch of Iran's version of the modern Kornet ATGM, with similar performance specs. Some of those are earmarked to possibly be included in this.

Ukraine killing nearly 1,000 Russian troops every day, eliminates 5,000 in single battle https://t.co/xpFiBqDRlJ

— Fox News (@FoxNews) February 14, 2023

FAIL, they did not intercept Russian jets in Alaska. They intercepted them in International airspace designated as the Alaska Air Defense Identification Zone.

— Kaz | kazar.eth (@tropmonky) February 14, 2023

Non-story

https://www.rawstory.com/us-fighter-jets-intercept-russian-aircraft-nnear-alaska/

The "routine" intercept of the Russian planes -- which included Tu-95 bomber and Su-35 fighter aircraft -- occurred Monday, NORAD said in a statement.

"Russian aircraft remained in international airspace and did not enter American or Canadian sovereign airspace," it said, adding that such Russian activity "occurs regularly and is not seen as a threat, nor is the activity seen as provocative."

Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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I read where weapons the Navy seized from Iranian smugglers supporting rebels in Yemen will be redirected to Ukraine. I like that type of budgetary reallocation.

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How effective do you think crappy old Iranian made weapons (intended for illiterate Houthi rebels) will be?

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Most of it is small arms, i.e., a boatload of Kalashnikovs and ammunition.

cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Good listen, but some of the items in there are not worded well...

1) Money being sent to Ukraine...
-It's really equipment, not money
2) The equipment we have sent to Ukraine is about 95% stuff that is basically being phased out of our own stockpiles, and actually scheduled for write-down.

i.e. Think about depreciation credits for owning rental property, or depreciation on an oil well. You get to write down a certain percentage and ultimately fully (in the case of military equipment) write it down when it is mothballed. Much of the stuff is on the mothball list. We are literally giving them stuff that has been paid for for decades, and now we get to write it down by giving it someone else.

This war is not going nuclear. Putin is a bully, but a scared bully. Every line that cannot be crossed on his list has been crossed, and nothing has been done other than his continuing their war to try and take over Ukraine.

This is absolute pandering by Tulsi, and misworded by both her and Rogen, and I like both of them quite a bit.

---

What an absolute load of crap. We are not sending only old equipment about to be thrown away. We have sent new equipment and things no where close to being mothballed.

I mean just look at this list of items and tell me it is old junk

https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/

---

You look back over it and tell me what is new junk, because nothing on that list is less than 20+ years old.

-Abrams Tanks? We're sending version 1's (they've been around since the early 80's)
-Bradleys? Sending non-active storage with new tires and some upgraded (not current) optics (they've been around since the late 70's in some form)
-M777 howitzers? We used them in Vietnam.
-Javelins & TOWs? Iraq 1
-HARMS? lol


The only things on that list that were not really deployed much until this century are drones, and even then, we had them.

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So I provide a list of over 60 items and you pick out 5 and that means the rest are junk???

And then admit some are new.

and you can not get your facts right. The M777 Howitzer was not even thought of in Vietnam. The size gun (155mm) has been around since at least ww2. But the M777 was first produced in 1987. Long after Vietnam ended.

But the year of first production or even last production does not matter. How long have we been using C130s? Or B52s?

Stinger missiles are STILL CURRENTLY MADE. So sure maybe just maybe we are sending older ones that have sat on a warehouse shelf too long... but does that make them any less deadly? Does that mean we are not going to spend money to replace them?

Same for javelins. Which yeah they have been around for a long time but we still use them currently.

Stykers.... have ONLY been made in this century.

and about 20 other items on that list. So you were wrong in saying that the only thing we have deployed much in this century is drones since almost ALL of it has been deployed and used in this century.


So yeah other than the select 5 things you found on the list just about every single one is a newer item, currently being produced, or at minimum still being used.

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the error in your analysis is in concluding that all equipment is new, just because the models in question are currently in production. The Abrahms is a good example. Still being produced, but there are a lot of units that are old & quite road worn. Not junk. Not "surplus" in the commonly accepted meaning. But due for retirement from service due to being plain worn out.

NATO nations are, in fact, mostly "dealing from the bottom" when supplying Ukraine. The East Europe members are cleaning out their warehouses of all the old Soviet-era stuff. That's why the MIgs keep coming up. They'd like to scrap them and bring in F-16s or better. But they still have value and they still have budget considerations. The Ukraine War changes the calculation. There is NEED for them elsewhere in a transaction that has more value than just sending them to the scrapyard for nothing.

There is less battlefield to play with in this argument than meets the eye.....

NEW - McConnell: "Defeating the Russians in Ukraine is the single most important event going on in the world right now."pic.twitter.com/H8RkVKAhno

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) February 16, 2023

Journalist confronting Pentagon John Kirby: "You're moving closer to Russia yet you're blaming the Russians for being close to NATO" 🔥pic.twitter.com/qPewsDTvC6

— sarah (@sahouraxo) February 16, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

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Journalist confronting Pentagon John Kirby: "You're moving closer to Russia yet you're blaming the Russians for being close to NATO" 🔥pic.twitter.com/qPewsDTvC6

— sarah (@sahouraxo) February 16, 2023

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LOL except we are not moving closer to Russians by an inch.

Redbrickbear said:

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Journalist confronting Pentagon John Kirby: "You're moving closer to Russia yet you're blaming the Russians for being close to NATO" 🔥pic.twitter.com/qPewsDTvC6

— sarah (@sahouraxo) February 16, 2023

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This is awesome.

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Journalist confronting Pentagon John Kirby: "You're moving closer to Russia yet you're blaming the Russians for being close to NATO" 🔥pic.twitter.com/qPewsDTvC6

— sarah (@sahouraxo) February 16, 2023

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LOL except we are not moving closer to Russians by an inch.

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Too bad Kirby didn't have the chutzpah to go with that line. It's even funnier than "NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance."

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Journalist confronting Pentagon John Kirby: "You're moving closer to Russia yet you're blaming the Russians for being close to NATO" 🔥pic.twitter.com/qPewsDTvC6

— sarah (@sahouraxo) February 16, 2023

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LOL except we are not moving closer to Russians by an inch.

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Too bad Kirby didn't have the chutzpah to go with that line. It's even funnier than "NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance."

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It was, but isn't any more. It's now an anti-totalitarianism alliance.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Journalist confronting Pentagon John Kirby: "You're moving closer to Russia yet you're blaming the Russians for being close to NATO" 🔥pic.twitter.com/qPewsDTvC6

— sarah (@sahouraxo) February 16, 2023

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LOL except we are not moving closer to Russians by an inch.

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Too bad Kirby didn't have the chutzpah to go with that line. It's even funnier than "NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance."

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It was, but isn't any more. It's now an anti-totalitarianism alliance.

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You're on a roll!

Biden announces that US tax dollars will go towards supporting Ukrainian social services, including paying for government pensions.

pic.twitter.com/e9LmSpdjAy

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) February 18, 2023

Let me translate it for you. I’ll use small words to help you understand. The people you think are defending democracy are feeding a war machine that, in turn, feeds their bank accounts. We pay for it. Ukrainians die for it. They get rich.

— AmErican (@Flipper628) February 18, 2023

whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Let me translate it for you. I’ll use small words to help you understand. The people you think are defending democracy are feeding a war machine that, in turn, feeds their bank accounts. We pay for it. Ukrainians die for it. They get rich.

— AmErican (@Flipper628) February 18, 2023

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Yet if Putin doesn't invade there is no machine. Putin in on it? Getting a cut?

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People are going to make money on government spending - war, peace, doesn't matter.

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That has become the primary role of Govt...

“That’s not our war,” journalist Max Blumenthal speaks at the Rage Against the War Machine rally in DC

Footage: @HannahNighting pic.twitter.com/q5a6wjExgc

— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) February 19, 2023

$200 billion spent on this already.

Doc Holliday said:

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$200 billion spent on this already.

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makes me sick to my stomach to think about the f'ing check I have to write in another 6 weeks.

BREAM: "We're about $200 billion [in Ukraine aid] so far. There are questions about where the U.S. commitment ends..."

KIRBY: "We're going to support Ukraine for as long as it takes." pic.twitter.com/PjtZs9ZovN

— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) February 19, 2023

Huge Biden fail pic.twitter.com/EVn87jufGw

— Cyberpunk Sense (@napoleon21st) February 20, 2023

ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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$200 billion spent on this already.

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makes me sick to my stomach to think about the f'ing check I have to write in another 6 weeks.

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My total taxes taken between state/federal are gonna be nearly $60k for just this year.

Federal income and state property taxes are a racket and it's screwing over people like me. If I paid half what I pay now, I could easily save for retirement. I could invest another $30k a year and compound it for a few decades.

We in the middle class are servants to the lazy and the rich.

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If you pay 60k in taxes annually you aren't middle class, or you're upper middle class on the cusp of "Upper Class", and you're somewhere inside of the top 10% globally. Welcome to the global elite.

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Its upper middle. The elite are top of 1%

Doc Holliday said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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$200 billion spent on this already.

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makes me sick to my stomach to think about the f'ing check I have to write in another 6 weeks.

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My total taxes taken between state/federal are gonna be nearly $60k for just this year.

Federal income and state property taxes are a racket and it's screwing over people like me. If I paid half what I pay now, I could easily save for retirement. I could invest another $30k a year and compound it for a few decades.

We in the middle class are servants to the lazy and the rich.

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If you pay 60k in taxes annually you aren't middle class, or you're upper middle class on the cusp of "Upper Class", and you're somewhere inside of the top 10% globally. Welcome to the global elite.

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Its upper middle. The elite are top of 1%

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Keep striving.

Redbrickbear said:

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Huge Biden fail pic.twitter.com/EVn87jufGw

— Cyberpunk Sense (@napoleon21st) February 20, 2023

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Africa and Latin America?!?!?! I wonder why?! Lol

trey3216 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Huge Biden fail pic.twitter.com/EVn87jufGw

— Cyberpunk Sense (@napoleon21st) February 20, 2023

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Africa and Latin America?!?!?! I wonder why?! Lol

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It is tough to persuade anyone to agree with you when your high-level representative does not speak English.