Whoopi Goldberg claims Biden declassified all documents when he was vice president. pic.twitter.com/bBlywBspoe
— Real Mac Report (@RealMacReport) January 24, 2023
Incorrect. See New York Times v. CIA.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.Right, that's a false distinction. Being president didn't give Trump any more right to take documents when he left office than Biden had. Also, the NA didn't pack Trump's documents for him.Quote:What changed? My contention has always been that Trump had clearance to have the documents that the NA packed for him upon leaving office and Biden, as Senator and VP had no such clearance to take and keep classified documents upon leaving office, as he obviously did. Your only contention was that Biden COULD have been the person, as Senator and Vice President, who classified the documents in the first place which would make possession legal. That's it. You tried to debunk the facts as we know them with a technicality that has an astronomically low chance of being reality.Quote:Or it's my polite way of not saying you backpedaled faster than a hooker in Skechers.Quote:Ha, I just take it as his way of admitting he was incorrect to claim the distinctions I made were wrong.Quote:Quote:We don't disagree.Quote:After they leave office? Whoops.Quote:
But senators and vice presidents can have classified documents. How can they do their jobs otherwise?
Don't disagree
Lol. I love playing those word games with people. Drives them insane.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
I believe Biden acted horribly and inappropriately as senator and VP in re: possession of classified documents..Doc Holliday said:
Look at all the ridiculous posts defending our child sniffing, dementia ridden puppet president.
Trump has ruined y'all's ability to be rational.
Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Or more accurately...yes.Wangchung said:Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Bingo.Osodecentx said:I believe Biden acted horribly and inappropriately as senator and VP in re: possession of classified documents..Doc Holliday said:
Look at all the ridiculous posts defending our child sniffing, dementia ridden puppet president.
Trump has ruined y'all's ability to be rational.
My point is that the defense you guys are using for Trump also works for Biden. It shouldn't, but you'll have to twist yourselves into pretzels to distinguish the cases.
The particular warrant against Trump only deals with the espionage act, and if the materials were previously declassed, their removal is not a crime.Osodecentx said:I believe Biden acted horribly and inappropriately as senator and VP in re: possession of classified documents..Doc Holliday said:
Look at all the ridiculous posts defending our child sniffing, dementia ridden puppet president.
Trump has ruined y'all's ability to be rational.
My point is that the defense you guys are using for Trump also works for Biden. It shouldn't, but you'll have to twist yourselves into pretzels to distinguish the cases.
Debunked. A Vice President or a Senator does not have the declassification powers of the president.Sam Lowry said:Or more accurately...yes.Wangchung said:Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Possession and declassification are two different issues. You've flip-flopped between them enough times that I'm starting to think it's intentional.Wangchung said:Debunked. A Vice President or a Senator does not have the declassification powers of the president.Sam Lowry said:Or more accurately...yes.Wangchung said:Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Well the conversation pertains to not only possession but also who classified them in the first place and who declassified them at the end. We know Trump had the power to declassify therefor he has the clearance to possess them. We also know that Biden never had the authority to declassify anything, as senator or vice president, therefor his possession of them was a crime. Without the power to declassify, as Trump had, Joe Biden cannot legally possess the classified materials in the first place and try to claim he declassified them.Sam Lowry said:Possession and declassification are two different issues. You've flip-flopped between them enough times that I'm starting to think it's intentional.Wangchung said:Debunked. A Vice President or a Senator does not have the declassification powers of the president.Sam Lowry said:Or more accurately...yes.Wangchung said:Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
When was his possession of them illegal, while he was in office or after he left?Wangchung said:We also know that Biden never had the authority to declassify anything, as senator or vice president, therefor his possession of them was a crime.Sam Lowry said:Possession and declassification are two different issues. You've flip-flopped between them enough times that I'm starting to think it's intentional.Wangchung said:Debunked. A Vice President or a Senator does not have the declassification powers of the president.Sam Lowry said:Or more accurately...yes.Wangchung said:Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Sam Lowry said:Incorrect. See New York Times v. CIA.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.Right, that's a false distinction. Being president didn't give Trump any more right to take documents when he left office than Biden had. Also, the NA didn't pack Trump's documents for him.Quote:What changed? My contention has always been that Trump had clearance to have the documents that the NA packed for him upon leaving office and Biden, as Senator and VP had no such clearance to take and keep classified documents upon leaving office, as he obviously did. Your only contention was that Biden COULD have been the person, as Senator and Vice President, who classified the documents in the first place which would make possession legal. That's it. You tried to debunk the facts as we know them with a technicality that has an astronomically low chance of being reality.Quote:Or it's my polite way of not saying you backpedaled faster than a hooker in Skechers.Quote:Ha, I just take it as his way of admitting he was incorrect to claim the distinctions I made were wrong.Quote:Quote:We don't disagree.Quote:After they leave office? Whoops.Quote:
But senators and vice presidents can have classified documents. How can they do their jobs otherwise?
Don't disagree
Lol. I love playing those word games with people. Drives them insane.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
Sam Lowry said:Possession and declassification are two different issues. You've flip-flopped between them enough times that I'm starting to think it's intentional.Wangchung said:Debunked. A Vice President or a Senator does not have the declassification powers of the president.Sam Lowry said:Or more accurately...yes.Wangchung said:Did Trump have clearance to take them to begin with? Yes. Did Biden, as senator? No. Did Biden as Vice President? No.Osodecentx said:So you say Trump can't retroactively declassify documents he says he didn't know he had?Wangchung said:No, it doesn't work retroactively after the documents were stolen by that same person when they didn't have clearance to take them to begin with.Osodecentx said:For purposes of this discussion, let's accept the above as true. A sitting president can declassify any documents without executing any legal document.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
What would keep Biden from declassifying all of the docs he stole/took? As POTUS, under your reasoning, couldn't Biden declassify the docs he took when he was a senator?
So you contend that the president can work with classified material at home, but the vice president would violate criminal law by doing the same thing. Under what law is this rule established?Wangchung said:
I would say when he took them from the secured location without legal clearance. As soon as he, or more likely his aids, left the building with the documents he was committing a crime.
Let's skip my interpretation and go straight to the ruling:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Incorrect. See New York Times v. CIA.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.Right, that's a false distinction. Being president didn't give Trump any more right to take documents when he left office than Biden had. Also, the NA didn't pack Trump's documents for him.Quote:What changed? My contention has always been that Trump had clearance to have the documents that the NA packed for him upon leaving office and Biden, as Senator and VP had no such clearance to take and keep classified documents upon leaving office, as he obviously did. Your only contention was that Biden COULD have been the person, as Senator and Vice President, who classified the documents in the first place which would make possession legal. That's it. You tried to debunk the facts as we know them with a technicality that has an astronomically low chance of being reality.Quote:Or it's my polite way of not saying you backpedaled faster than a hooker in Skechers.Quote:Ha, I just take it as his way of admitting he was incorrect to claim the distinctions I made were wrong.Quote:Quote:We don't disagree.Quote:After they leave office? Whoops.Quote:
But senators and vice presidents can have classified documents. How can they do their jobs otherwise?
Don't disagree
Lol. I love playing those word games with people. Drives them insane.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
Your interpretation of that ruling is malpractice, counselor.
Quote:
Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot "simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary," that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. The Shiner affidavits, in addition to justifying the two FOIA exemptions, expressly stated that no declassification procedures had been followed with respect to any documents pertaining to the alleged covert program. Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails.
Sam Lowry said:Let's skip my interpretation and go straight to the ruling:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Incorrect. See New York Times v. CIA.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.Right, that's a false distinction. Being president didn't give Trump any more right to take documents when he left office than Biden had. Also, the NA didn't pack Trump's documents for him.Quote:What changed? My contention has always been that Trump had clearance to have the documents that the NA packed for him upon leaving office and Biden, as Senator and VP had no such clearance to take and keep classified documents upon leaving office, as he obviously did. Your only contention was that Biden COULD have been the person, as Senator and Vice President, who classified the documents in the first place which would make possession legal. That's it. You tried to debunk the facts as we know them with a technicality that has an astronomically low chance of being reality.Quote:Or it's my polite way of not saying you backpedaled faster than a hooker in Skechers.Quote:Ha, I just take it as his way of admitting he was incorrect to claim the distinctions I made were wrong.Quote:Quote:We don't disagree.Quote:After they leave office? Whoops.Quote:
But senators and vice presidents can have classified documents. How can they do their jobs otherwise?
Don't disagree
Lol. I love playing those word games with people. Drives them insane.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
Your interpretation of that ruling is malpractice, counselor.Quote:
Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot "simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary," that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. The Shiner affidavits, in addition to justifying the two FOIA exemptions, expressly stated that no declassification procedures had been followed with respect to any documents pertaining to the alleged covert program. Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails.
When they leave office, they don't get to keep being a Senator or vice president at home. They are no longer the holder of that office. Or are you pretending we are talking about at the end of a work day when they go home for the night? Lol, tell me you aren't that stupid.Sam Lowry said:So you contend that the president can work with classified material at home, but the vice president would violate criminal law by doing the same thing. Under what law is this rule established?Wangchung said:
I would say when he took them from the secured location without legal clearance. As soon as he, or more likely his aids, left the building with the documents he was committing a crime.
You're clutching at the same straw that the NYT did on appeal. Unfortunately the possibility of deliberate declassification by implication had already been addressed by the district court:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Let's skip my interpretation and go straight to the ruling:whiterock said:Sam Lowry said:Incorrect. See New York Times v. CIA.whiterock said:Being president allows you to declassify documents by simply picking them up from the desk, walking out of the Oval Office, and entering any number of non-SCIFsecured places: WH residence, Marine 1, AF1, limousine, etc......Sam Lowry said:
if he didn't have a hand in classifying them, then yes, he cannot have them at all as a Senator or vice president.Right, that's a false distinction. Being president didn't give Trump any more right to take documents when he left office than Biden had. Also, the NA didn't pack Trump's documents for him.Quote:What changed? My contention has always been that Trump had clearance to have the documents that the NA packed for him upon leaving office and Biden, as Senator and VP had no such clearance to take and keep classified documents upon leaving office, as he obviously did. Your only contention was that Biden COULD have been the person, as Senator and Vice President, who classified the documents in the first place which would make possession legal. That's it. You tried to debunk the facts as we know them with a technicality that has an astronomically low chance of being reality.Quote:Or it's my polite way of not saying you backpedaled faster than a hooker in Skechers.Quote:Ha, I just take it as his way of admitting he was incorrect to claim the distinctions I made were wrong.Quote:Quote:We don't disagree.Quote:After they leave office? Whoops.Quote:
But senators and vice presidents can have classified documents. How can they do their jobs otherwise?
Don't disagree
Lol. I love playing those word games with people. Drives them insane.
The person from whom all classification/declassification authority flows is under no legal requirement to ask permission or document anything from/for anyone to handle the information as he/she sees fit. If he/she reveals it in private or in public to any person or persons, the revelation itself is a declassification.
Has always been so. Only the effort to contrive a problem here has caused some to contrive a legal problem for Trump.
And NONE of the above applies to a Senator
Your interpretation of that ruling is malpractice, counselor.Quote:
Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot "simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary," that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. The Shiner affidavits, in addition to justifying the two FOIA exemptions, expressly stated that no declassification procedures had been followed with respect to any documents pertaining to the alleged covert program. Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails.
Doubling down on it, I see.
Your error starts at the word "inadvertent."
Quote:
Here, President Trump did not make an unequivocal statement, or any statement for that matter, indicating he was declassifying information. This should end the inquiry, but Plaintiffs argue that the plain meaning of President Trump's tweet and his statements to the Journal are sufficient to verify existence of a covert CIA program, and therefore President Trump's statements declassified the existence of the program. Yet, even when viewing the facts in a light most favorable to Plaintiffs, this argument is unsupported.
Accordingly, the Court holds that (1) absent an unequivocal statement of declassification from the President or exceptional circumstances that are not present here, the Court will not infer whether the President's statements have the legal effect of declassifying information; and (2) President Trump's public statements in this case do not rise to the level of an unequivocal statement of declassification. At best, President Trump's statements could be treated as an official acknowledgement of an alleged covert CIA program, but Plaintiffs argument on this front also fails.
You're still not answering my question. When did he commit the crime, and what law did he violate?Wangchung said:When they leave office, they don't get to keep being a Senator or vice president at home. They are no longer the holder of that office. Or are you pretending we are talking about at the end of a work day when they go home for the night? Lol, tell me you aren't that stupid.Sam Lowry said:So you contend that the president can work with classified material at home, but the vice president would violate criminal law by doing the same thing. Under what law is this rule established?Wangchung said:
I would say when he took them from the secured location without legal clearance. As soon as he, or more likely his aids, left the building with the documents he was committing a crime.
Odd that the little Beta librarian with TDS only seemed capable of tracking Trump's documents ... I wonder why. I guess our national librarians are typical incompetent regressive fundamentalists.Wangchung said:
Mike Pence's turn.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyer-classified-documents-found-mike-172503729.html
It was the librarian who reported Biden's documents to the DOJ.Harrison Bergeron said:Odd that the little Beta librarian with TDS only seemed capable of tracking Trump's documents ... I wonder why. I guess our national librarians are typical incompetent regressive fundamentalists.Wangchung said:
Mike Pence's turn.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyer-classified-documents-found-mike-172503729.html
I did answer your question. Read it again.Sam Lowry said:You're still not answering my question. When did he commit the crime, and what law did he violate?Wangchung said:When they leave office, they don't get to keep being a Senator or vice president at home. They are no longer the holder of that office. Or are you pretending we are talking about at the end of a work day when they go home for the night? Lol, tell me you aren't that stupid.Sam Lowry said:So you contend that the president can work with classified material at home, but the vice president would violate criminal law by doing the same thing. Under what law is this rule established?Wangchung said:
I would say when he took them from the secured location without legal clearance. As soon as he, or more likely his aids, left the building with the documents he was committing a crime.
You are going out of your way not to make sense. I'll circle back later.Wangchung said:I did answer your question. Read it again.Sam Lowry said:You're still not answering my question. When did he commit the crime, and what law did he violate?Wangchung said:When they leave office, they don't get to keep being a Senator or vice president at home. They are no longer the holder of that office. Or are you pretending we are talking about at the end of a work day when they go home for the night? Lol, tell me you aren't that stupid.Sam Lowry said:So you contend that the president can work with classified material at home, but the vice president would violate criminal law by doing the same thing. Under what law is this rule established?Wangchung said:
I would say when he took them from the secured location without legal clearance. As soon as he, or more likely his aids, left the building with the documents he was committing a crime.
