He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Let's see what other mean spirited ad hominem attackers are out there.
FD and Canada have showed up

Where's bergson, 4th and inches, Mothra, Growl, DC,redbrick tarp duster, he hate me,whiterock, Who did i Leave off?

---

Honored to have made the list.

---

At least he didn't fat finger your name!

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Let's see what other mean spirited ad hominem attackers are out there.
FD and Canada have showed up

Where's bergson, 4th and inches, Mothra, Growl, DC,redbrick tarp duster, he hate me,whiterock, Who did i Leave off?

---

Honored to have made the list.

---

At least he didn't fat finger your name!

---

come on FD, dont be like that..

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

Last sentence conflicts with title of the thread

Eliminating the income tax benefits everyone that earns income.

A sales tax punishes everyone equally. If you spend, you pay.

If you buy a used Chevy truck, you pay tax.
If you but a new tricked-out Hummer, you pay a lot more tax.

If equity like that bugs you, sure can help the poor. Don't tax eggs, but do tax omelettes. And surcharge quiche if you want to punish the rich. But the income tax is not about punishing the rich. The rich don't live on earned income. It's the middle class that lives on earned income. Ergo why it exists. Its an enormous tax base. The only one that's bigger are sales transactions. And they are far more equitable. The more you spend, the more you pay.

I favor a flat tax and a balanced budget amendment. Once we have a sales or vat tax, we will have both that and the income tax. Politicians cannot help themselves.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

the ones that make paychecks and vote republican.. obama IRS part 2

The phrase "pay their fair share" is such bs terminology that gets repeated over and over with no definition. 90% of the taxes in this country are paid by 10% of the people. What exactly is a fair share? You just keep repeating the same drivel because you've never had an original thought in your whole miserable life.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

tax on food should be very small, tax on luxury items very high.. tax can be rolled into payments to the bank for cars and houses.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

I'd make the argument that neither party in Washington wants to address the cost problem.

Both sides will vote for a trillion dollar omnibus deal if it gets their pet project approved or the pet project of the opposing party denied. It's absurd.

I'm not sold on a VAT either. A lot of countries use them in part. A lot of argument about the fair tax is that you could save a lot of money on the IRS enforcement but I believe most studies shows compliance cost actually goes up with a VAT because of the oversight needed to make sure the tax is being collected where it needs to be and is waived where it needs to be. Can easily be a lot of abuse.

Ultimately, I just think our tax code needs to be simpler.

My gut instinct is that the rate needs to be lower and loopholes need to be removed. High tax rates with lots of exemptions pushes the wealthier folks who can afford the accounting manipulation to find all types of legal loopholes whereas they would likely just pay the tax and get it over with at a more fair rate. We almost incentivize the manipulation and that's not a R or D issue - both sides do it.

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

I'd make the argument that neither party in Washington wants to address the cost problem.

Both sides will vote for a trillion dollar omnibus deal if it gets their pet project approved or the pet project of the opposing party denied. It's absurd.

I'm not sold on a VAT either. A lot of countries use them in part. A lot of argument about the fair tax is that you could save a lot of money on the IRS enforcement but I believe most studies shows compliance cost actually goes up with a VAT because of the oversight needed to make sure the tax is being collected where it needs to be and is waived where it needs to be. Can easily be a lot of abuse.

Ultimately, I just think our tax code needs to be simpler.

My gut instinct is that the rate needs to be lower and loopholes need to be removed. High tax rates with lots of exemptions pushes the wealthier folks who can afford the accounting manipulation to find all types of legal loopholes whereas they would likely just pay the tax and get it over with at a more fair rate. We almost incentivize the manipulation and that's not a R or D issue - both sides do it.

---

Thanks for the insight. That makes sense. Lower rates, fewer loopholes. I can see the problems with a sales / VAT both in collection and avoidance. Yeah - what is clear that only maybe 2% of Congress actually is concerned about the federal bloat.

4th and Inches said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

tax on food should be very small, tax on luxury items very high.. tax can be rolled into payments to the bank for cars and houses.

---

Why? Percentage is a magical concept.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

tax on food should be very small, tax on luxury items very high.. tax can be rolled into payments to the bank for cars and houses.

---

Why? Percentage is a magical concept.

---

You wanted to help the working class, remember?

4th and Inches said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

tax on food should be very small, tax on luxury items very high.. tax can be rolled into payments to the bank for cars and houses.

---

But see how this can be manipulated. Punitive tax on ICE vehicles but tax credits on EVs even though the EVs do more environmental damage and are much heavier than conventional cars. Meat can be taxed as 'luxury' food while Gluten-free Bagels can count as 'organic'.

There's no end to the games they can play with tax definitions.

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

I'd make the argument that neither party in Washington wants to address the cost problem.

Both sides will vote for a trillion dollar omnibus deal if it gets their pet project approved or the pet project of the opposing party denied. It's absurd.

I'm not sold on a VAT either. A lot of countries use them in part. A lot of argument about the fair tax is that you could save a lot of money on the IRS enforcement but I believe most studies shows compliance cost actually goes up with a VAT because of the oversight needed to make sure the tax is being collected where it needs to be and is waived where it needs to be. Can easily be a lot of abuse.

Ultimately, I just think our tax code needs to be simpler.

My gut instinct is that the rate needs to be lower and loopholes need to be removed. High tax rates with lots of exemptions pushes the wealthier folks who can afford the accounting manipulation to find all types of legal loopholes whereas they would likely just pay the tax and get it over with at a more fair rate. We almost incentivize the manipulation and that's not a R or D issue - both sides do it.

---

Taxes will sort out pretty quick, if they would just stop the obscene spending. There was a time when even Democrats would oppose a Billing dollar project if it wasn't aligned with their values. Now it's 'I will support your $50 Billion weapons deal if you support my $55 Billion WOKE Affirmation Program'.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

tax on food should be very small, tax on luxury items very high.. tax can be rolled into payments to the bank for cars and houses.

---

Why? Percentage is a magical concept.

---

You wanted to help the working class, remember?

---

Those are not mutually exclusive. Weird take.

Oldbear83 said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

I'd make the argument that neither party in Washington wants to address the cost problem.

Both sides will vote for a trillion dollar omnibus deal if it gets their pet project approved or the pet project of the opposing party denied. It's absurd.

I'm not sold on a VAT either. A lot of countries use them in part. A lot of argument about the fair tax is that you could save a lot of money on the IRS enforcement but I believe most studies shows compliance cost actually goes up with a VAT because of the oversight needed to make sure the tax is being collected where it needs to be and is waived where it needs to be. Can easily be a lot of abuse.

Ultimately, I just think our tax code needs to be simpler.

My gut instinct is that the rate needs to be lower and loopholes need to be removed. High tax rates with lots of exemptions pushes the wealthier folks who can afford the accounting manipulation to find all types of legal loopholes whereas they would likely just pay the tax and get it over with at a more fair rate. We almost incentivize the manipulation and that's not a R or D issue - both sides do it.

---

Taxes will sort out pretty quick, if they would just stop the obscene spending. There was a time when even Democrats would oppose a Billing dollar project if it wasn't aligned with their values. Now it's 'I will support your $50 Billion weapons deal if you support my $55 Billion WOKE Affirmation Program'.

---

Nothing fuels deficits like an income tax.

When you tax income, the fairness of the taking always has more moral weight than the prudence of the spending. Cutting spending becomes, implicitly, an indirect way to reduce the tax burden on the rich. A sales tax severs that connection and makes the prudence of the spending more relevant to the common man.

'Cutting spending becomes, implicitly, an indirect way to reduce the tax burden on the rich'

Not to the economically literate. But there is a strong reason the government opposes teaching Finance in grade school.

Doc Holliday said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

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Hole up…your logic is that a lack of a massive weaponized IRS not targeting the working class is an economic danger to the working class?

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'a massive weaponized IRS' Who said that?

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

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What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

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The rich.

Oldbear83 said:

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BaylorGuy314 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

---

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Doesn't much of the rest of the world rely on sales taxes ... thinking the VAT? Wonder how they manage it?

My biggest concern about a sales tax is how it could be abused by the kinds of loons we see in the Biden Administration ... 50% on beef, 0% on vegan stuff. Curious what a 1-cent federal sales tax would generate in annual revenue.

The problem the Democrats always ignore is we do not have a revenue problem but a cost problem.

---

I'd make the argument that neither party in Washington wants to address the cost problem.

Both sides will vote for a trillion dollar omnibus deal if it gets their pet project approved or the pet project of the opposing party denied. It's absurd.

I'm not sold on a VAT either. A lot of countries use them in part. A lot of argument about the fair tax is that you could save a lot of money on the IRS enforcement but I believe most studies shows compliance cost actually goes up with a VAT because of the oversight needed to make sure the tax is being collected where it needs to be and is waived where it needs to be. Can easily be a lot of abuse.

Ultimately, I just think our tax code needs to be simpler.

My gut instinct is that the rate needs to be lower and loopholes need to be removed. High tax rates with lots of exemptions pushes the wealthier folks who can afford the accounting manipulation to find all types of legal loopholes whereas they would likely just pay the tax and get it over with at a more fair rate. We almost incentivize the manipulation and that's not a R or D issue - both sides do it.

---

Taxes will sort out pretty quick, if they would just stop the obscene spending. There was a time when even Democrats would oppose a Billing dollar project if it wasn't aligned with their values. Now it's 'I will support your $50 Billion weapons deal if you support my $55 Billion WOKE Affirmation Program'. What the heck?

---

Obscene spending? Where does one cut and are those cuts massive enough to affect the debt and defict.

BaylorGuy314 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

What group of taxpayers are the most targeted for audits?

---

The bottom 20% of earners get audited about 5x more than the upper 20%.

But that's not all because of targeting or enforcement (or a lack thereof). A lot of that is because the upper 20% are spending a crap ton on CPAs and can avoid the audits with a lot of fancy accounting work. The bottom 20% don't know how to properly fill out a Schedule C, creating flags all over their file.

To me, the conversation is simple:

1. There is a tax gap (what should be collected vs what is) and the IRS does need additional labor + tech to address this.
2. The IRS does need money to upgrade systems so they can be more efficient (which should lessen the demand on physical labor)
3. It doesn't take $90B to accomplish those things. It shouldn't take half that much, even.
4. We need a simpler tax system. The complexity of our tax code should be embarrassing. CPAs- who do this full time- spend as much time (or more) researching and understanding the tax code they deal with daily vs actually preparing returns.

I'm not opposed to a flat tax based on sales but there would have to be a lot of work done. You'd have to eliminate a large basket of goods so those with much less disposable income weren't hurt more by it and you'd have to still have a lot of tax rules to grab the taxes of the wealthy that are making substantial income but not necessarily spending them on goods.

---

Worth bumping

Canada2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

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All you care about is milking others for even more taxes to pay your bills….while in comparison you pay little to nothing in taxes .

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Diversion away from GOP nonsense and what aboutism.

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Hypocrite

You have spent years pushing for others to pay more in taxes in order to help defray your own living costs .

Knowing the entire time your inability to support yourself is due exclusively to your life choices .

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This is stupid. You no idea of my personal finances. P.S. I paid the full amount of Soc Sec Tax because I was self employed.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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The GOP's first policy bill would defund President Joe Biden's efforts to help the Internal Revenue Service crack down on tax cheats. It's a bill that's predicated on disinformation, whose only real constituency is wealthy people who don't want to pay their fair share. And it underscores how the Republican Party's so-called populism isn't about empowering the working class it's about exploiting them

---

This isn't your writing. Please use a citation if you're gonna quote the MSNBC columnist who wrote this.

You've done this a few times before. Stop plagiarizing.

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MSLSD?

Canada2017 said:

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PacificBear said:

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What does fair share mean? $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000? How much do you want to take?

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47 never answers such questions directly .

Because he knows his position is totally hypocritical.

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You spent a lifetime using your home mortgage deduction to rob our treasury. Why did you deserve that deduction on your income?
Let's say your annual mortgage deduction of $10,000 is from taxable income of $100,000 so your taxable income is $90,000. If your tax rate is 10% then you you $900.00 in taxes rather than $1,000. Why do you deserve that break and a renter pays 10% on his income of 100,000 on his taxes

Yes the OP came from msnbc but the truth is there in the writing.

Waco1947 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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PacificBear said:

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What does fair share mean? $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000? How much do you want to take?

---

47 never answers such questions directly .

Because he knows his position is totally hypocritical.

---

You spent a lifetime using your home mortgage deduction to rob our treasury. Why did you deserve that deduction on your income?
Let's say your annual mortgage deduction of $10,000 is from taxable income of $100,000 so your taxable income is $90,000. If your tax rate is 10% then you you $900.00 in taxes rather than $1,000. Why do you deserve that break and a renter pays 10% on his income of 100,000 on his taxes

---

he got his break when the owner of the property he is renting fixed everything. Renter doesnt pay for water heaters or AC repairs.

PITI is figured into cost of rent, if the owner gets a tax discount, the renter gets it passed thru as part of rent valuation. Landlords have to be competitive as quality tenants will leave or buy if you arent

Waco1947 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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PacificBear said:

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What does fair share mean? $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000? How much do you want to take?

---

47 never answers such questions directly .

Because he knows his position is totally hypocritical.

---

You spent a lifetime using your home mortgage deduction to rob our treasury. Why did you deserve that deduction on your income?
Let's say your annual mortgage deduction of $10,000 is from taxable income of $100,000 so your taxable income is $90,000. If your tax rate is 10% then you you $900.00 in taxes rather than $1,000. Why do you deserve that break and a renter pays 10% on his income of 100,000 on his taxes

---

Because it is immoral for worthless authoritarian bureaucrats to steal money from working people.

To the original post,

So this means the Democrat Party is fascist because they keep trying to control major means of production through mega-corporations and import cheap slave labor at the border?

Name tagging is for quick stereotyping. Each action taken by a political group is pushing toward personal liberty or group control. One is not necessarily better than the other based on just personal liberty or group control. Group control by outlawing murder is a good thing for society. Personal liberty (freedom of choice) protected by limits on government in a constitution is a good thing for society.

This sounds just terrible….

populist
noun [ C ]
US /ppjlst/

a person or a politician who is mainly interested in the problems and needs of ordinary people:

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

PacificBear said:

---

What does fair share mean? $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000? How much do you want to take?

---

47 never answers such questions directly .

Because he knows his position is totally hypocritical.

---

You spent a lifetime using your home mortgage deduction to rob our treasury. Why did you deserve that deduction on your income?
Let's say your annual mortgage deduction of $10,000 is from taxable income of $100,000 so your taxable income is $90,000. If your tax rate is 10% then you you $900.00 in taxes rather than $1,000. Why do you deserve that break and a renter pays 10% on his income of 100,000 on his taxes

---

This may very well be the most Communist/ fascist post I have ever read on SicEm365. Great job, Waco. You outdid yourself this time.

I just watched Running Man with my kids. Dystopian society run with propaganda and heavy handed government control of every aspect of daily lives. The media had a deal with the DOJ to help them to produce and propagate content to keep the masses mollified.

I explained that this, to some extent, is what the democrat party would love to turn America into. I cited DPRK as a socialist society that is mostly there. They already understand that democrats fight to murder babies and control every aspect of your life outside indiscriminate consequence free copulation….which is merely a new version of bread and circuses.

In a few years, they will be adults and will be very well armed against leftist propaganda.

Waco1947 said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

PacificBear said:

---

What does fair share mean? $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000? How much do you want to take?

---

47 never answers such questions directly .

Because he knows his position is totally hypocritical.

---

You spent a lifetime using your home mortgage deduction to rob our treasury. Why did you deserve that deduction on your income?
Let's say your annual mortgage deduction of $10,000 is from taxable income of $100,000 so your taxable income is $90,000. If your tax rate is 10% then you you $900.00 in taxes rather than $1,000. Why do you deserve that break and a renter pays 10% on his income of 100,000 on his taxes

---

Ridiculous post .

One of hundreds you have routinely dumped on this message board over the years .

Bottom line

You have always attempted to force others to pay more than what you have ever paid .

My bill this year ( income tax only ) will be at least $ 300,000 for 2022.

Property taxes will be an additional $ 120,000 for 2022 .

Meanwhile you pay next to nothing .

Golem said:

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This sounds just terrible….

populist
noun [ C ]
US /ppjlst/

a person or a politician who is mainly interested in the problems and needs of ordinary people:

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as I said, populism isnt a problem until it becomes a person over an idea.

Once a person becomes the only salvation, then any political theory attached to them is dangerous