2024

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boognish_bear
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12:43p, 10/14/23
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J.R.
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In reply to whiterock • 3:40p, 10/14/23
whiterock said:
J.R. said:
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
Mothra said:
Biden edges out Trump in Fox News poll, loses to DeSantis or Haley

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4251779-biden-trump-desantis-haley-2024-poll-fox/

Been saying this a long time. When it comes to a binary choice between the two, Biden is going to win. Again. Trump has a way of galvanizing the support of Democrats for their nominee, regardless of how much they may not want him to run.

That one comes with caution statements on outlier and bias.

Outlier: I've only seen one other poll on this question that shows a similar outcome - Haley beating Biden, Desantis not. Trump also beat Biden in that poll, but by a smaller margin than Haley. (which at least partially tracks with the Fox poll).

Bias: In addition to not being in the top tier for accuracy, Fox ownership has a declared bias. It would be very easy to take results for the poll I noted above, fiddle in minor ways with the demographics, and get exactly the outcome Fox reported....

So you have to set that in the "hold pile" and wait for more information to flow in. It may be on the cusp of a new dynamic. Or it may be something closer to spin than not.
$1k says Trump loses the general, regardless of who the Dems run. As confident as you appear, this should be easy money. Let me know if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is.
I'll put up another $1K
I get no joy whatsoever from gambling. I'd rather spend the money on something valuable.

So here's what I'll do: I'll make a $1k donation to whatever candidate clinches the GOP primary. And I'll add another one after the convention. I'd like to do more, but I have some local races that I plan to donate to as well (mostly primary).

If you two aren't willing to match that, you part of the problem, not the solution.
then your a Meow
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Mothra
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In reply to whiterock • 3:47p, 10/14/23
whiterock said:
J.R. said:
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
Mothra said:
Biden edges out Trump in Fox News poll, loses to DeSantis or Haley

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4251779-biden-trump-desantis-haley-2024-poll-fox/

Been saying this a long time. When it comes to a binary choice between the two, Biden is going to win. Again. Trump has a way of galvanizing the support of Democrats for their nominee, regardless of how much they may not want him to run.

That one comes with caution statements on outlier and bias.

Outlier: I've only seen one other poll on this question that shows a similar outcome - Haley beating Biden, Desantis not. Trump also beat Biden in that poll, but by a smaller margin than Haley. (which at least partially tracks with the Fox poll).

Bias: In addition to not being in the top tier for accuracy, Fox ownership has a declared bias. It would be very easy to take results for the poll I noted above, fiddle in minor ways with the demographics, and get exactly the outcome Fox reported....

So you have to set that in the "hold pile" and wait for more information to flow in. It may be on the cusp of a new dynamic. Or it may be something closer to spin than not.
$1k says Trump loses the general, regardless of who the Dems run. As confident as you appear, this should be easy money. Let me know if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is.
I'll put up another $1K
I get no joy whatsoever from gambling. I'd rather spend the money on something valuable.

So here's what I'll do: I'll make a $1k donation to whatever candidate clinches the GOP primary. And I'll add another one after the convention. I'd like to do more, but I have some local races that I plan to donate to as well (mostly primary).

If you two aren't willing to match that, you part of the problem, not the solution.


Guess I'm part of the problem then. Not going to give a penny to a re-tread two time loser.

Let me know if you work up the courage to take me up on my offer then we will see whether you're serious about your prognostications.

Trump won't win.
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whiterock
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In reply to J.R. • 6:44a, 10/15/23
J.R. said:
whiterock said:
J.R. said:
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
Mothra said:
Biden edges out Trump in Fox News poll, loses to DeSantis or Haley

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4251779-biden-trump-desantis-haley-2024-poll-fox/

Been saying this a long time. When it comes to a binary choice between the two, Biden is going to win. Again. Trump has a way of galvanizing the support of Democrats for their nominee, regardless of how much they may not want him to run.

That one comes with caution statements on outlier and bias.

Outlier: I've only seen one other poll on this question that shows a similar outcome - Haley beating Biden, Desantis not. Trump also beat Biden in that poll, but by a smaller margin than Haley. (which at least partially tracks with the Fox poll).

Bias: In addition to not being in the top tier for accuracy, Fox ownership has a declared bias. It would be very easy to take results for the poll I noted above, fiddle in minor ways with the demographics, and get exactly the outcome Fox reported....

So you have to set that in the "hold pile" and wait for more information to flow in. It may be on the cusp of a new dynamic. Or it may be something closer to spin than not.
$1k says Trump loses the general, regardless of who the Dems run. As confident as you appear, this should be easy money. Let me know if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is.
I'll put up another $1K
I get no joy whatsoever from gambling. I'd rather spend the money on something valuable.

So here's what I'll do: I'll make a $1k donation to whatever candidate clinches the GOP primary. And I'll add another one after the convention. I'd like to do more, but I have some local races that I plan to donate to as well (mostly primary).

If you two aren't willing to match that, you part of the problem, not the solution.
then your a Meow
No, I'm willing to put my money behind something more worthwhile than an ego contest.
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whiterock
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11:42a, 10/15/23
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FLBear5630
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12:21p, 10/15/23
Nothing about Louisiana? I would have thought it confirms a Trump victory. There is no doubt, GOP won in Blue State.
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Osodecentx
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In reply to whiterock • 12:53p, 10/15/23
whiterock said:
Is it your opinion that the RFK independent candidacy hurts Biden more than Trump. That feels right to me.

What about the addition of a No Names candidate, along with Cornell West? Do you have any opinion based on polling?
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Osodecentx • 1:35p, 10/15/23
Osodecentx said:
whiterock said:
Is it your opinion that the RFK independent candidacy hurts Biden more than Trump. That feels right to me.

What about the addition of a No Names candidate, along with Cornell West? Do you have any opinion based on polling?


Gonna depend on what comes out of the lawsuits. If the Docs case has legs, you may have two other candidates. I am not sure Jan 6th will impact anymore than it has. Gonna be interesting to see if votes match polls.
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Oldbear83
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3:13p, 10/15/23
FLBear: "Gonna depend on what comes out of the lawsuits."

Nope. The people supporting Trump are convinced the lawfare against him is just a set of dirty tricks. The NeverTrumpers, of course, made up their minds long ago.


The polls clearly show there are 10-16 percent of voters who say they will vote for someone besides Biden or Trump, but there is a real possibility they will stay home. We may see a lot of young voters stay home, which will affect the Congressional races as well.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to whiterock • 3:22p, 10/15/23
How is a man with dementia in the thick of an multi- national bribe scandal even polling double digits? Sure doesn't say much for our electorate! We are DUMB!!! I am thinking those Palestinians may win the IQ contest when it comes to half of our country!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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whiterock
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In reply to Osodecentx • 6:55a, 10/16/23
Osodecentx so said:
whiterock said:
Is it your opinion that the RFK independent candidacy hurts Biden more than Trump. That feels right to me.

What about the addition of a No Names candidate, along with Cornell West? Do you have any opinion based on polling?
My first assumption to test would be that RFK hurts Biden more than Trump. Biden and JFK are from the same political tradition, have relationships in the same kinds of places. So it's presumptively divisive of the same coalition. RFK has that one special thing that neither of the two major candidates have - likeability - so he will get a good hard look in the middle. People (including me) will like his commitment to classical liberalism (free speech) but his policy positions are not just left of center but in some cases hard left. That will limit his appeal in the center. Finally, there is the "hard floor" I've mentioned. Trump has a very, very hard floor. Biden does not.

From there....every poll I've seen shows RFK hurting Biden more, some barely so, some by a lot (meaning outside the margin of error). I also heard a news report last week that Trump was gearing up to attack RFK because internal Trump polling showed that RFK was stealing Trump voters. Now, those two statements are not necessarily at odds. Both could be true....RFK stealing Trump votes, but stealing MORE Biden votes. Either way, it's net-loss Biden. And that makes sense. Biden admin is presiding over an unmitigated disaster across the range of policy issues.

West seems destined to run. He will pull a point or three at best, but that could be a difference maker in a swing state (like it was in 2016). Others may run. Not likely to have any more impact than West. West may have as much harm on Trump as Biden...drawing off some of the growing number of black male voters disaffected with Democrats, but the numbers are so small it's not likely to matter as much as RFK.

Those here who insist Trump cannot win are mostly running with their gut. And they're smart, experienced people, so that's not worthless. What they're overlooking is the dynamic we're discussing. This is an unprecedented scenario shaping up before us. We have TWO highly unpopular men likely to be nominated by the two major parties. No chance of an aspirational campaign like 2008 Obama. We will also have two or more independent candidates, at least one of whom will likely draw double digit support. That fundamentally changes the dynamics. In such a scenario, the guy with the highest floor is in an inherent position of advantage. (That would be Trump.....)

And there's one more factor, too. Conservatives have always been a plurality of voters (low-40's). Yet, durable over time, the moderates tend to enter into coalition with liberals to deny conservative rule. There are exceptions. Reagan, primarily. But we see that dynamic at play right now in the Speaker race. We see that dynamic in the statehouse in Austin. The system tends to balance out the plurality opinion. That explains a lot of the unrest on the political right. It explains (partially) Trumpism. But at some point, the moderate/liberal coalition will fall. And the best template for that to happen is what we see shaping up.....the plurality opinion led by Trump (who not coincidentally seems to have a cast-iron floor of 42%), winning due to a fracturing of the liberal-moderate coalition.

There are, of course, a lot of layers to that onion. But in the main, like it or not, that's what appears to be shaping up to happen.
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whiterock
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In reply to RD2WINAGNBEAR86 • 6:58a, 10/16/23
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
How is a man with dementia in the thick of an multi- national bribe scandal even polling double digits? Sure doesn't say much for our electorate! We are DUMB!!! I am thinking those Palestinians may win the IQ contest when it comes to half of our country!
Remember: very few people in the electorate care as much about politics as the people here in this forum. They don't tune in much, or actually avoid the issue on a daily basis. They're not dumb. They're mature and have a full life elsewhere, uninfected with addiction to the daily eye-gouging and elbow throwing of politics.

Every economic model assumes "perfect knowledge," that consumers know everything they need to know to make rational decisions. That's just not true in politics. If it were, Democrats would never win an election.
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whiterock
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 7:03a, 10/16/23
Oldbear83 said:
FLBear: "Gonna depend on what comes out of the lawsuits."

Nope. The people supporting Trump are convinced the lawfare against him is just a set of dirty tricks. The NeverTrumpers, of course, made up their minds long ago.


The polls clearly show there are 10-16 percent of voters who say they will vote for someone besides Biden or Trump, but there is a real possibility they will stay home. We may see a lot of young voters stay home, which will affect the Congressional races as well.
That 10-16% number guarantees Trump's election.......no matter whether they vote RFK or stay home. Trump is going to get 4) or so, and that's probably enough. Ex: 38 Trump, 33 Biden, 26 RFK, 2 West, 1 other.

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KaiBear
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7:31a, 10/16/23
These silly 'analyses' ignore one basic fact.

Trump is instinctively hated by a significant percentage of independent voters.

The more they see or hear him; the more they consider Trump a threat to democracy.

Bizarre how the nominal leadership remaining in the Republican Party doesn't speak out against Trump. Amazing how scared they are of the old fat man.
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boognish_bear
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7:31a, 10/16/23
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Osodecentx
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In reply to whiterock • 9:26a, 10/16/23
whiterock said:
Osodecentx so said:
whiterock said:
Is it your opinion that the RFK independent candidacy hurts Biden more than Trump. That feels right to me.

What about the addition of a No Names candidate, along with Cornell West? Do you have any opinion based on polling?
My first assumption to test would be that RFK hurts Biden more than Trump. Biden and JFK are from the same political tradition, have relationships in the same kinds of places. So it's presumptively divisive of the same coalition. RFK has that one special thing that neither of the two major candidates have - likeability - so he will get a good hard look in the middle. People (including me) will like his commitment to classical liberalism (free speech) but his policy positions are not just left of center but in some cases hard left. That will limit his appeal in the center. Finally, there is the "hard floor" I've mentioned. Trump has a very, very hard floor. Biden does not.

From there....every poll I've seen shows RFK hurting Biden more, some barely so, some by a lot (meaning outside the margin of error). I also heard a news report last week that Trump was gearing up to attack RFK because internal Trump polling showed that RFK was stealing Trump voters. Now, those two statements are not necessarily at odds. Both could be true....RFK stealing Trump votes, but stealing MORE Biden votes. Either way, it's net-loss Biden. And that makes sense. Biden admin is presiding over an unmitigated disaster across the range of policy issues.

West seems destined to run. He will pull a point or three at best, but that could be a difference maker in a swing state (like it was in 2016). Others may run. Not likely to have any more impact than West. West may have as much harm on Trump as Biden...drawing off some of the growing number of black male voters disaffected with Democrats, but the numbers are so small it's not likely to matter as much as RFK.

Those here who insist Trump cannot win are mostly running with their gut. And they're smart, experienced people, so that's not worthless. What they're overlooking is the dynamic we're discussing. This is an unprecedented scenario shaping up before us. We have TWO highly unpopular men likely to be nominated by the two major parties. No chance of an aspirational campaign like 2008 Obama. We will also have two or more independent candidates, at least one of whom will likely draw double digit support. That fundamentally changes the dynamics. In such a scenario, the guy with the highest floor is in an inherent position of advantage. (That would be Trump.....)

And there's one more factor, too. Conservatives have always been a plurality of voters (low-40's). Yet, durable over time, the moderates tend to enter into coalition with liberals to deny conservative rule. There are exceptions. Reagan, primarily. But we see that dynamic at play right now in the Speaker race. We see that dynamic in the statehouse in Austin. The system tends to balance out the plurality opinion. That explains a lot of the unrest on the political right. It explains (partially) Trumpism. But at some point, the moderate/liberal coalition will fall. And the best template for that to happen is what we see shaping up.....the plurality opinion led by Trump (who not coincidentally seems to have a cast-iron floor of 42%), winning due to a fracturing of the liberal-moderate coalition.

There are, of course, a lot of layers to that onion. But in the main, like it or not, that's what appears to be shaping up to happen.
Thanks.
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boognish_bear
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2:49p, 10/16/23
Captain Bonespurs has opinions on the military

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Cobretti
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11:26p, 10/16/23

Quote:
The country may very well be headed for a 2020 rematch that no one, including the two old men involved in it, seem very interested in, and throughout this crisis in the Middle East, there's only one person right now in the race who seems focused on the Americans caught up in it.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to boognish_bear • 5:18a, 10/17/23
boognish_bear said:
Captain Bonespurs has opinions on the military



To Trump anyone that does something and doesn't develop it as a brand and sell it is dumb.
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whiterock
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 7:40a, 10/17/23
FLBear5630 said:
boognish_bear said:
Captain Bonespurs has opinions on the military



To Trump anyone that does something and doesn't develop it as a brand and sell it is dumb.
That's not it. His comments are leveraging the pictures of Hamas carring M-4 carbines, the implication that Milley left stuff behind in Afghanistan that was used in the Hamas attacks in Israel. Those stories are out there. He didn't make them up.

One reason for NOT leaving stuff behind would be the optics of having it later used in atrocities against allies....

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FLBear5630
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In reply to whiterock • 8:35a, 10/17/23
whiterock said:
FLBear5630 said:
boognish_bear said:
Captain Bonespurs has opinions on the military



To Trump anyone that does something and doesn't develop it as a brand and sell it is dumb.
That's not it. His comments are leveraging the pictures of Hamas carring M-4 carbines, the implication that Milley left stuff behind in Afghanistan that was used in the Hamas attacks in Israel. Those stories are out there. He didn't make them up.

One reason for NOT leaving stuff behind would be the optics of having it later used in atrocities against allies....

Yeah, that's it...
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muddybrazos
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 8:40a, 10/17/23
FLBear5630 said:
whiterock said:
FLBear5630 said:
boognish_bear said:
Captain Bonespurs has opinions on the military



To Trump anyone that does something and doesn't develop it as a brand and sell it is dumb.
That's not it. His comments are leveraging the pictures of Hamas carring M-4 carbines, the implication that Milley left stuff behind in Afghanistan that was used in the Hamas attacks in Israel. Those stories are out there. He didn't make them up.

One reason for NOT leaving stuff behind would be the optics of having it later used in atrocities against allies....

Yeah, that's it...
SO you support Milley and the other woke generals who are turning the military into a LGBT pride parade just bc you hate Trump? There's a reason that recruiting is down under these people.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to muddybrazos • 9:13a, 10/17/23
muddybrazos said:
FLBear5630 said:
whiterock said:
FLBear5630 said:
boognish_bear said:
Captain Bonespurs has opinions on the military



To Trump anyone that does something and doesn't develop it as a brand and sell it is dumb.
That's not it. His comments are leveraging the pictures of Hamas carring M-4 carbines, the implication that Milley left stuff behind in Afghanistan that was used in the Hamas attacks in Israel. Those stories are out there. He didn't make them up.

One reason for NOT leaving stuff behind would be the optics of having it later used in atrocities against allies....

Yeah, that's it...
SO you support Milley and the other woke generals who are turning the military into a LGBT pride parade just bc you hate Trump? There's a reason that recruiting is down under these people.
Yeah, it is an either/or. Milley did nothing else, he just turned the military into a LGBT pride parade. The guy had no interest in defending the nation over a 30-year career. Look at the people that worked with him that said he did a good job over his career, they are all LGPT Pride participants, right? Sometimes you make the best of bad situations. He served under Trump and Biden! He didn't get a Bush Sr or Reagan. He got the guy who said McMasters, Mattis and Kelly were stupid and incompetent! Biden? Enough said.

Did you ever think they guy had it worse than any Chief of Staff and Joint Chief's having to operate under Biden? Is it more Patriotic to walk away or try to manage it the best you can? I don't think many on here have been in that position. It sucks to have to try to balance what you know is right and what you are being ordered to do. You think he liked Afghanistan pull out that was no where near ready??? The guy Commanded the 2nd Brigade Combat Team 10th Mountain, a RDF Division. He served in 7th SF.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 11:10a, 10/17/23
FLBear: "Milley did nothing else, he just turned the military into a LGBT pride parade. The guy had no interest in defending the nation over a 30-year career. Look at the people that worked with him that said he did a good job over his career, they are all LGPT Pride participants, right? Sometimes you make the best of bad situations. "

IMIO, the problem with the modern military goes back a ways. Remember General Wes Clark under Clinton? I am willing to agree that he must have done some things right in such a long career, but that man had no business being a four-star general. Milley was cut from the same material as Clark, the self-serving pompous ass who was useless in most things beyond his career, certainly not the sort of man who should lead our military.

The Navy under Rickover was like that too, and of course anyone familiar with history has nothing but venomous contempt for the British Generals who all but eviscerated a generation of young men in the trench warfare of World War 1.

It even goes back further. Santa Ana was a big part of why Texas won its independence, as his arrogance was the only quality greater than his incompetence. Horatio Nelson is righty praised today but in his time he suffered under the dullard policies of Lord Hood, who attained honors due to the work of others.

My point is that it is far different to 'support the military' than it is to blindly salute a pack of self-serving mandarins.

In other words, while I have little support for Trump issuing military opinions, Milley was a man who disgraced his uniform and mocking him is damn-near a moral imperative.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 11:33a, 10/17/23
Oldbear83 said:
FLBear: "Milley did nothing else, he just turned the military into a LGBT pride parade. The guy had no interest in defending the nation over a 30-year career. Look at the people that worked with him that said he did a good job over his career, they are all LGPT Pride participants, right? Sometimes you make the best of bad situations. "

IMIO, the problem with the modern military goes back a ways. Remember General Wes Clark under Clinton? I am willing to agree that he must have done some things right in such a long career, but that man had no business being a four-star general. Milley was cut from the same material as Clark, the self-serving pompous ass who was useless in most things beyond his career, certainly not the sort of man who should lead our military.

The Navy under Rickover was like that too, and of course anyone familiar with history has nothing but venomous contempt for the British Generals who all but eviscerated a generation of young men in the trench warfare of World War 1.

It even goes back further. Santa Ana was a big part of why Texas won its independence, as his arrogance was the only quality greater than his incompetence. Horatio Nelson is righty praised today but in his time he suffered under the dullard policies of Lord Hood, who attained honors due to the work of others.

My point is that it is far different to 'support the military' than it is to blindly salute a pack of self-serving mandarins.

In other words, while I have little support for Trump issuing military opinions, Milley was a man who disgraced his uniform and mocking him is damn-near a moral imperative.
Well, my view is that unless you are in his shoes and dedicated his adult life to serving the US, I have a hard time casting judgement.

He is in no way in the same Galaxy as George Marshall or Collen Powell, but I have a hard time saying someone disgraced his uniform after serving Honorably for that long.

But, I am sure you and the others would have stepped up and told Biden no we are staying in Afghanistan. The execution was horrendous and whoever he put in charge their careers are probably over.
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Oldbear83
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 11:44a, 10/17/23
FLBear5630 said:
Oldbear83 said:
FLBear: "Milley did nothing else, he just turned the military into a LGBT pride parade. The guy had no interest in defending the nation over a 30-year career. Look at the people that worked with him that said he did a good job over his career, they are all LGPT Pride participants, right? Sometimes you make the best of bad situations. "

IMIO, the problem with the modern military goes back a ways. Remember General Wes Clark under Clinton? I am willing to agree that he must have done some things right in such a long career, but that man had no business being a four-star general. Milley was cut from the same material as Clark, the self-serving pompous ass who was useless in most things beyond his career, certainly not the sort of man who should lead our military.

The Navy under Rickover was like that too, and of course anyone familiar with history has nothing but venomous contempt for the British Generals who all but eviscerated a generation of young men in the trench warfare of World War 1.

It even goes back further. Santa Ana was a big part of why Texas won its independence, as his arrogance was the only quality greater than his incompetence. Horatio Nelson is righty praised today but in his time he suffered under the dullard policies of Lord Hood, who attained honors due to the work of others.

My point is that it is far different to 'support the military' than it is to blindly salute a pack of self-serving mandarins.

In other words, while I have little support for Trump issuing military opinions, Milley was a man who disgraced his uniform and mocking him is damn-near a moral imperative.
Well, my view is that unless you are in his shoes and dedicated his adult life to serving the US, I have a hard time casting judgement.

He is in no way in the same Galaxy as George Marshall or Collen Powell, but I have a hard time saying someone disgraced his uniform after serving Honorably for that long.

But, I am sure you and the others would have stepped up and told Biden no we are staying in Afghanistan. The execution was horrendous and whoever he put in charge their careers are probably over.
Actually, I have put my career where my values were. I left my last job rather than support an abusive CFO, helped my team find new jobs too. Early on, I stood up to a VP who wanted me to fire a manager just because he was gay (this was back in the 1980s when there was no legal protection for gays, especially in an at-will state). So in terms of hypocrisy, at least I can say I walk that walk.

A four-star who isn't worth even one of them soon reveals his character by his actions, and sadly Milley has constantly proven his level to be far below his office.

But you do you.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 12:07p, 10/17/23
Oldbear83 said:
FLBear5630 said:
Oldbear83 said:
FLBear: "Milley did nothing else, he just turned the military into a LGBT pride parade. The guy had no interest in defending the nation over a 30-year career. Look at the people that worked with him that said he did a good job over his career, they are all LGPT Pride participants, right? Sometimes you make the best of bad situations. "

IMIO, the problem with the modern military goes back a ways. Remember General Wes Clark under Clinton? I am willing to agree that he must have done some things right in such a long career, but that man had no business being a four-star general. Milley was cut from the same material as Clark, the self-serving pompous ass who was useless in most things beyond his career, certainly not the sort of man who should lead our military.

The Navy under Rickover was like that too, and of course anyone familiar with history has nothing but venomous contempt for the British Generals who all but eviscerated a generation of young men in the trench warfare of World War 1.

It even goes back further. Santa Ana was a big part of why Texas won its independence, as his arrogance was the only quality greater than his incompetence. Horatio Nelson is righty praised today but in his time he suffered under the dullard policies of Lord Hood, who attained honors due to the work of others.

My point is that it is far different to 'support the military' than it is to blindly salute a pack of self-serving mandarins.

In other words, while I have little support for Trump issuing military opinions, Milley was a man who disgraced his uniform and mocking him is damn-near a moral imperative.
Well, my view is that unless you are in his shoes and dedicated his adult life to serving the US, I have a hard time casting judgement.

He is in no way in the same Galaxy as George Marshall or Collen Powell, but I have a hard time saying someone disgraced his uniform after serving Honorably for that long.

But, I am sure you and the others would have stepped up and told Biden no we are staying in Afghanistan. The execution was horrendous and whoever he put in charge their careers are probably over.
Actually, I have put my career where my values were. I left my last job rather than support an abusive CFO, helped my team find new jobs too. Early on, I stood up to a VP who wanted me to fire a manager just because he was gay (this was back in the 1980s when there was no legal protection for gays, especially in an at-will state). So in terms of hypocrisy, at least I can say I walk that walk.

A four-star who isn't worth even one of them soon reveals his character by his actions, and sadly Milley has constantly proven his level to be far below his office.

But you do you.
Hey, you don't have to agree. Great Nation. There are two sides to every situation, you can walk away like you did or you can try to control the damage like I do. I did the walking away thing earlier in my career, found the same stuff got approved and they put someone in charge that didn't care. Better to be on the inside and control the damage best you can. Nobody is irreplaceable. Seen both, at this point I see more value trying to be part of the solution than walking proudly away and letting things go to *****

But you do you. To some people being able to say that they were not part of something over an ideal is important. Would love to see how many of those things DON'T come to pass because of that...
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Waco1947
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3:07p, 10/17/23
Who is interactive polls? What's their methodology?
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whiterock
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In reply to KaiBear • 4:05p, 10/17/23
KaiBear said:
These silly 'analyses' ignore one basic fact.

Trump is instinctively hated by a significant percentage of independent voters.

The more they see or hear him; the more they consider Trump a threat to democracy.

Bizarre how the nominal leadership remaining in the Republican Party doesn't speak out against Trump. Amazing how scared they are of the old fat man.

Well…..
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FLBear5630
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In reply to whiterock • 4:10p, 10/17/23
whiterock said:
KaiBear said:
These silly 'analyses' ignore one basic fact.

Trump is instinctively hated by a significant percentage of independent voters.

The more they see or hear him; the more they consider Trump a threat to democracy.

Bizarre how the nominal leadership remaining in the Republican Party doesn't speak out against Trump. Amazing how scared they are of the old fat man.

Well…..


Don't count out more Independents the more Trump gets into court cases.
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Osodecentx
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In reply to whiterock • 4:10p, 10/17/23
whiterock said:
KaiBear said:
These silly 'analyses' ignore one basic fact.

Trump is instinctively hated by a significant percentage of independent voters.

The more they see or hear him; the more they consider Trump a threat to democracy.

Bizarre how the nominal leadership remaining in the Republican Party doesn't speak out against Trump. Amazing how scared they are of the old fat man.

Well…..
Chamath is a smart guy. In at Facebook very near the beginning, bought a lot of Bitcoin at $5.00 (or less).

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JXL
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In reply to whiterock • 4:47p, 10/17/23
whiterock said:



This poll is an illusion, in my opinion. The critical number is in a poll a few posts up - Trump's -15 percent favorability rating among suburban voters, who are key to any Republican's success.

Mothra is correct - nominating Trump is a recipe for disaster.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to JXL • 6:07p, 10/17/23
JXL said:
whiterock said:




This poll is an illusion, in my opinion. The critical number is in a poll a few posts up - Trump's -15 percent favorability rating among suburban voters, who are key to any Republican's success.


Mothra is correct - nominating Trump is a recipe for disaster.





It is what the Dems want us to see. They want Trump to be the nominee. Stupid MAGA gonna give it to them. Just like they have 2 more shots at the Speaker, than the Dems get it. Gaetz and Company are gonna give it to the Dems.
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boognish_bear
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6:17p, 10/17/23
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4th and Inches
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In reply to Waco1947 • 7:37p, 10/17/23
Waco1947 said:
Who is interactive polls? What's their methodology?
they post others.. thats a harvard/harris poll
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