4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

Because you are a better person than Trump? Its a pretty low bar, you can clear it..

---

The WePo poll was very good for Trump. Why did he lie about something that was good when the truth would have served whims well?

---

who is he?

---

A site called Freedom. It is the Trump organization's Twitter site, the one white rock linked that had false numbers

---

false numbers? Maybe not properly explained numbers.. but since those numbers actually appear that way in the poll, they arent false.

Its selective and misleading but still accurate poll numbers. Marketing always use the best results, caveat empor

---

And that poll isn't exactly an outlier.

Good Morning !

Legacy media feigns surprise at Trump +7 over Biden.

They aren't surprised.

They are among our most attentive readers & subscribers.

The more you know. https://t.co/CllKleidbz pic.twitter.com/83n8CyRX8S

— Rasmussen Reports (@Rasmussen_Poll) May 8, 2023

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

Because you are a better person than Trump? Its a pretty low bar, you can clear it..

---

The WePo poll was very good for Trump. Why did he lie about something that was good when the truth would have served whims well?

---

who is he?

---

A site called Freedom. It is the Trump organization's Twitter site, the one white rock linked that had false numbers

---

false numbers? Maybe not properly explained numbers.. but since those numbers actually appear that way in the poll, they arent false.

Its selective and misleading but still accurate poll numbers. Marketing always use the best results, caveat empor

---

And that poll isn't exactly an outlier.

---

Exactly. Why lie about it?
WaPo poll was good news, yet he lied about the numbers when the truth would have served him well

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

Because you are a better person than Trump? Its a pretty low bar, you can clear it..

---

The WePo poll was very good for Trump. Why did he lie about something that was good when the truth would have served whims well?

---

who is he?

---

A site called Freedom. It is the Trump organization's Twitter site, the one white rock linked that had false numbers

---

false numbers? Maybe not properly explained numbers.. but since those numbers actually appear that way in the poll, they arent false.

Its selective and misleading but still accurate poll numbers. Marketing always use the best results, caveat empor

---

I'm willing to learn about polling. Show me how I'm wrong. Explain it properly.

Trump says he is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39.
Trump says he leads among Independents 42-29. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error.
Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-38.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

That's where you lose me and many others. He and his team flat lied repeatedly and carried on like 5-year old sore losers, only worse. That resulted in Jan 6, one of the most embarrassing events in our history, with hundreds of his own supporters arrested and incarcerated. I've maintained from the start that he was not criminally liable, but he darn sure was morally and practically responsible.

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

That's where you lose me and many others. He and his team flat lied repeatedly and carried on like 5-year old sore losers, only worse. That resulted in Jan 6, one of the most embarrassing events in our history, with hundreds of his own supporters arrested and incarcerated. I've maintained from the start that he was not criminally liable, but he darn sure was morally and practically responsible.

---

Whats embarassing is what's being allowed to happen to this country. Communists were allowed to burn down cities for a whole year in 2020 and since Jan 6th over 6 million illegals have been allowed to come here with many more on the way. This country is in a controlled demoition and the people who went to the capitol were angry at what is being allowed to happen to this nation. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that the violence was provacateured that day by the very same people that are helping to destroy our country.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

You continue to promote the candidate that Democrats prefer. Biden's only chance is Trump.

You Always Trumpers will elect a Democrat

sombear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

That's where you lose me and many others. He and his team flat lied repeatedly and carried on like 5-year old sore losers, only worse. That resulted in Jan 6, one of the most embarrassing events in our history, with hundreds of his own supporters arrested and incarcerated. I've maintained from the start that he was not criminally liable, but he darn sure was morally and practically responsible.

---

Whats embarassing is what's being allowed to happen to this country. Communists were allowed to burn down cities for a whole year in 2020 and since Jan 6th over 6 million illegals have been allowed to come here with many more on the way. This country is in a controlled demoition and the people who went to the capitol were angry at what is being allowed to happen to this nation. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that the violence was provacateured that day by the very same people that are helping to destroy our country.

---

Not defending any of the other stuff. But Jan 6 is a permanent stain. So-called conservative patriots attacking police and forcing their way into a federal building, all based on Trump and team lies. Just listen to all the interviews and read the transcripts. The protestors went there because (1) Trump told them to, and (2) they bought hook, line and sinker Trump's election and legal process lies.

And a vast majority of them regret it.

---

The vast majority of the people at the capitol were not violent. That whole violence situation was a planned set up and most of those boomers just walked into the capitol having nothing to do with the violence.

sombear said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

That's where you lose me and many others. He and his team flat lied repeatedly and carried on like 5-year old sore losers, only worse. That resulted in Jan 6, one of the most embarrassing events in our history, with hundreds of his own supporters arrested and incarcerated. I've maintained from the start that he was not criminally liable, but he darn sure was morally and practically responsible.

---

Normally, conservatives would say the people morally and practically responsible for riots are the people who actually did the rioting. There are lots of anomalies about J6 and the 2020 election, all of which have caused a majority of people in the country to conclude foul play likely affected the outcome (per reputable polling). Given the bloody obvious anomalies during that period of time, none of that should be a surprise to anyone, so it's completely expected that things have gotten "contentious."

If Democrats can scream about a stolen elections, Republicans are perfectly free to do so as well, AND SHOULD. Allowing them to make GOP administration illegitimate without responding in kind is unilateral disarmament which only encourages more bad behavior on their part. Democrats understand that winning usually requires getting mud on the uniforms, and they fret not a whit about the pieties typically heard from the statesman class. We are not in "normal politics," young man. We are even moving beyond "regime politics" where one side tries to win for the purpose of undoing what the other has done. We are in the threshold of a cultural revolution where social contract as we have known it has broken down. We not only fail to agree on the purpose of government (see this week's developments in CA on reparations), we fail to agree on the definition of something as simple as what is a boy and what is a girl. How can there be a "common good" when we cannot agree on what is good? There is no middle ground to be had here, because Democrats do not tolerate it. One side is going to win, and the other is going to lose. I would advise that you pick a side and get prepared to put up with muddy uniforms for a bit, if you want to be effective.

The narcissism of the McConnell/Romney class is breathtaking....they'd prefer to moderate progressive leadership than to moderate conservative leadership, in order to defeat a certain Republican leader who figuratively farts at the dinner table. They fail to grasp the cold, hard reality of what is before them: if the game is rigged against the boor, it will be rigged against the statesman as well. And it most certainly is rigged. That is EXACTLY what is driving surging Trump support in the GOP., and it is also what is driving surging Trump support in the population at large. I was skeptical of the argument that Trump's legal woes would help him in the general election, but it appears that may end up being the case.

Here's your sign:
Democrats are, without a hint of discord within their ranks, sponsoring grassroots activism on reparations for slavery.
Meanwhile, establishment Republicans are *****ing about Trump being a threat to order.
Amazing.

"Don't be afraid to see what you see."
--Ronald Reagan

Biden can't win without Trump.
Trump can't win without Biden.

We can do better

Republicans aren't just witnesses to the breakdown of the social contract. As of 2020, they're now active participants.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

You continue to promote the candidate that Democrats prefer. Biden's only chance is Trump.

You Always Trumpers will elect a Democrat

---

Predicting months ago who would be leading the race is not supporting anyone.
Explaining how & why that would happen is not supporting anyone.
Being spot-on correct about that prediction is not supporting anyone.
Failing to join or cheer neverTrumper nonsense is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent virtue posturing of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent narcissism of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent hypocrisy of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.

I am going to support the Republican nominee in 2024, because that person, regardless who it is, will have the best chance of defeating Democrats who have plainly stated they will to treat me as a second-class citizen. Right now, looks like the nominee is going to be Trump. I have mixed but mostly good feelings about that. If it ends up being DeSantis, I will have mixed but mostly good feelings about that, too. And if it's anyone else, I'll have a LOT of mixed feelings. But no matter what, I will be there on the battlefield.

I'm not making any predictions at this time about the general election, other than it is very winnable by either of the two front runners. So many variables and chances for black swan type of surprises. I won't put much energy in picking a candidate to support until we get to Thanksgiving.

But you, I'm sure, will go on being you. So carry on.....

You're better than to justify J6.

No evidence of rigging.

As you well know, Trump's own polling had him losing bigly in 2020 (and in 2016 BTW) and predicted exactly where he would lose. His early vote and election day models showed the same.

Of course individuals are responsible and unfortunately, they are incarcerated accordingly. But it would never have happened if Trump didn't lie about voting machines, Pence's authority, mass ballot fraud, etc.

You create a false choice. We can have a strong conservative who is not a fraud and one of the most despicable human beings in our country's political history. It is not and has never been "Trump or Romney?"

You don't go deep enough into the "reputable polls" showing majority believes in the election being rigged. When asked why they believe it, the #1 response is either "Trump said so" or they at least parrot Trump's refuted talking points.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Readers need to know that whiterock's post above is deceptive. The WaPo poll does not say Trump will be the next president. Whiterock is an 'Always Trumper All the Time'. He is part of the Republican establishment and served on the board of directors of the Texas Republican Party.
He cherry picks polls for information favorable to Trump and publishes here trying to create a sense of inevitability for Trump.
The poll he quotes says Trump leads in the suburbs by 45-34. That is wrong, probably intentional. This is what the poll actually says: "Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

The WaPo poll also says that DeSantis would beat Biden 42-37 and DeSantis hasn't even announced. If DeSantis announces he will get a bump. Independents will decide this race and the majority of them believe Trump is a criminal

Below are the real results of the WaPo poll:
.
"If DeSantis were the Republican nominee, 42 percent today say they would definitely or probably vote for the Florida governor, as 37 percent would back Biden and 21 percent are undecided or chose another option."

Note Trump's problem with Independents.
"Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden, and nearly a quarter say they are either undecided, would vote for neither or would not vote at all."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Trump's lead in the suburbs is within the margin of error.
"In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error."

Most Americans think Trump is a criminal.
"The poll finds a 56 percent majority of Americans saying he should face criminal charges in investigations of his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. Similarly, 54 percent support charges against Trump for his role in the events leading up to the storming of the Capitol in January 2021 and, separately, for his handling of classified documents after he left office."
" ...a clear majority of independents support criminal charges for Trump on each of these issues."

Biden is a very flawed candidate presiding over a failed presidency. His only hope is that Republicans take whiterocck's advice and nominate Trump. Surely the United States of America can do better than these two.

---

No so, Herr Oso. I posted a link to a full WAPO poll, which is being widely discussed today due to its results showing Trump beating Biden. I then made a second post linking to a Twitter post with some of the key takeaways from the poll and said: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here." (because WAPO article usually are paywalled.)

You flatly lie, then pretend to be fact checking. Typical neverTrumper dishonesty.

You should be asking yourself "how could this be?" 4th game you one potential explanation. It is reasonable, but there are others which are more compelling. The most compelling explanation? Voters are going to conclude the bloody frickin' obvious: whatever can be said about Trump, Biden is worse.

---

Let's see who is lying.
You post the link to WaPo and then say: "if paywall obscures, poll results are here:"
Then you link to a Trump organization which gives wrong numbers (results that weren't in the WaPo poll, i.e. lies).

For example, your link says Trump is winning the suburbs by 45 to 34 over Biden. WaPo reports the number is 45-39. WaPo's exact quote is: In the new Post-ABC poll, Trump slightly leads Biden among suburbanites, with Trump at 45 percent and Biden at 39 percent, a difference that is within the poll's margin of error." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads among Independents 42-29. within the margin of error. WaPo poll says 42-34, within the margin of error. Here's the exact quote: "Among independents, 42 percent say they would definitely or probably back Trump, 34 percent say they are for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

How about another lie. Your link to the Trump organization says Trump leads overall by 45-37. The WaPo poll says the real number is 44-37. Here is the exact quote: "When asked who they would support in 2024, 44 percent of voting-age adults say they would "definitely" or "probably" vote for Trump while 38 percent would definitely or probably vote for Biden." So, who is lying? The Trump organization and you.

Your "helpful summary" of WaPo ends with: "Trump is going to be the next president of the United States of America." Of course, that was not in the WaPo article, another lie.

I invite people to go to the site you link. You will find it is the Trump organization's presence on Twitter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it, too, lies.
Here is the link you posted: https://twitter.com/PU28453638?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1655072905330401280%7Ctwgr%5E34b442db4869f6fac6dd2db0c29d7ac98cf56be0%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsicem365.com%2Fforums

You accuse me of being a "Never Trumper", a label I embrace. If you look at my old posts, I have self-identified as a Never Trumper & I stated my reasons.
You, on the other hand, are an "Always Trumper", but you come on here posing as an informed, disinterested expert. Then you re-publish Trump's lies like the Freedom site.

So who is lying?

---

In addition to not materially changing the outcome, you're off by the learners. See other links. Which all show the same picture.

My advice: It's a bad day for your narrative. Take the lump and move on. Maybe tomorrow will be a better one.

---

Doubling down on the Trump fake numbers

---

you're arguing about how wide is the margin of loss after misreading a poll and then making allegations that others are lying. neverTrumpist nonsense in parade. And it's just one poll. 18 months out.m from the election.

It's almost like you have a narrative to defend. LOL……

---

The narrative is you misled people by linking to a Trump organization site with false numbers. when given a chance to correct, you started calling "liar", when in fact it was you and Trump.

You posted false numbers. You defend your false numbers.


You're an Always Trumper, probably hoping for your reward if the Dear Leader gets reelected.

---

The poll is the poll, OSO. If you read it, you didn't understand it well. And nothing you've posted changes the outcome of it.

I will support the person who receives the GOP nomination. Will you take that pledge with me, or continue to make your own ego more important than saving the country from 4 more years of destructive Democrat policies?

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

You continue to promote the candidate that Democrats prefer. Biden's only chance is Trump.

You Always Trumpers will elect a Democrat

---

Predicting months ago who would be leading the race is not supporting anyone.
Explaining how & why that would happen is not supporting anyone.
Being spot-on correct about that prediction is not supporting anyone.
Failing to join or cheer neverTrumper nonsense is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent virtue posturing of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent narcissism of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent hypocrisy of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.

I am going to support the Republican nominee in 2024, because that person, regardless who it is, will have the best chance of defeating Democrats who have plainly stated they will to treat me as a second-class citizen. Right now, looks like the nominee is going to be Trump. I have mixed but mostly good feelings about that. If it ends up being DeSantis, I will have mixed but mostly good feelings about that, too. And if it's anyone else, I'll have a LOT of mixed feelings. But no matter what, I will be there on the battlefield.

I'm not making any predictions at this time about the general election, other than it is very winnable by either of the two front runners. So many variables and chances for black swan type of surprises. I won't put much energy in picking a candidate to support until we get to Thanksgiving.

But you, I'm sure, will go on being you. So carry on.....

---

Always Trump, All the time. You be you.

You post in an attempt to make Trump seem inevitable. He isn't. DeSantis hasn't even announced.

I won't be voting for a Democrat. Trump won't commit to supporting the Republican nominee, why should I?

Our team at @WPAIntel analyzed public research (not our polling) on the impact that Donald Trump had on down-ballot races in 18 and 22

From this, it is clear Donald Trump would be, in layman's terms, a disaster for Republicans in competitive seats as the 2024 GOP nominee
🧵

— Chris Wilson (@WilsonWPA) May 10, 2023

Wow.

2024 Texas Republican primary polling trends by @CWS_Research

November:
DeSantis — 43% (+11)
Trump — 32%

January:
Trump — 36% (+1)
DeSantis — 35%

March:
Trump — 43% (+16)
DeSantis — 27%

MAY:
Trump — 54% (+38)
DeSantis — 16%

✅ Net 49 POINT swing towards Trump pic.twitter.com/xei7NshLq5

— InteractivePolls (@IAPolls2022) May 11, 2023

“You’re a nasty person, I'll tell ya.”

— Donald Trump snaps at CNN’s @kaitlancollins after she presses him on why he held onto classified documents pic.twitter.com/UB4lYNnN09

— The Recount (@therecount) May 11, 2023

The main takeaway from CNN’s town hall: Donald Trump REALLY didn’t want to rule out signing a federal abortion ban. pic.twitter.com/CF9f49SAL8

— The Recount (@therecount) May 11, 2023

After Trump destroys CNN, Trump voters continue the demolition.

This clip is perfection.

pic.twitter.com/dEwlJQJXWH

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) May 11, 2023

That CNN Town Hall was so good for Trump, Fox News just called Arizona for Biden again.

— NotKennyRogers (@NotKennyRogers) May 11, 2023

CNN should be ashamed of themselves.

They have lost total control of this “town hall” to again be manipulated into platforming election disinformation, defenses of Jan 6th, and a public attack on a sexual abuse victim.

The audience is cheering him on and laughing at the host.

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) May 11, 2023

Note: The CNN Town Hall was a 90 minute broadcast, though the network expected the actual event to go as long as 75 minutes. They stopped less than 70 minutes in. In other words, they could have gone longer if they wanted—which is usually what executives do with big ratings draws

— Dylan Byers (@DylanByers) May 11, 2023

sombear said:

---

You're better than to justify J6.
I didn't. Analyzing it is not justifying it. Here, you illustrate the central dysfunction of our political climate -- we insist people denounce things in order to avoid an honest discussion about them.

No evidence of rigging.
Obtuse in the extreme.

As you well know, Trump's own polling had him losing bigly in 2020 (and in 2016 BTW) and predicted exactly where he would lose. His early vote and election day models showed the same.
He lost by 44k votes in three states, IIRC. So apparently he over-performed his polling.

Of course individuals are responsible and unfortunately, they are incarcerated accordingly. But it would never have happened if Trump didn't lie about voting machines, Pence's authority, mass ballot fraud, etc.
Now you're back to obtusity. All of that is hotly debatable. Note the withdrawal of the lawsuit against True the Vote. Mail in vote is a literal ****-show of fraud. The election was lost in the error rate alone in the swing states....blue counties counting every ballot, no matter what, no verification possible, much less done, knowing that every three votes countied will give you two, so just keep counting until you get the numbers you need.
Dude. If you don't wake up, we'll never win another election.
Seriously. You typify the problem here.
Dems fight for systems that give them advantages; we protect those systems and make them work better rather than fighting for systems that give us advantage.
Sheesh....

You create a false choice. We can have a strong conservative who is not a fraud and one of the most despicable human beings in our country's political history. It is not and has never been "Trump or Romney?"
Oso-esque. Again, explaining WHY the moderate wing of the party has lost control to a populist leader is not endorsing anything. If he goes away, the next one in line will be the most populist leader in view. At some point, the grievances of the crowd have to be addressed.

You don't go deep enough into the "reputable polls" showing majority believes in the election being rigged. When asked why they believe it, the #1 response is either "Trump said so" or they at least parrot Trump's refuted talking points.
Rasmussen has polled this question consistently over time and the number has steadily risen. Their historic accuracy is solid and their daily presidential poll actually over-samples Democrats and typically shows Biden with stronger numbers than others. So the poll cannot be dismissed as an outlier, much less crackpottery. But set aside the actual number for a moment and ask the question "what should the number be?" What percentage does that number have to be for social contract to be considered strong? Reasonable people can quibble over that, but +60% is off by orders of magnitude above the range of numbers you and I might debate. We have a serious problem with voter fraud, the public knows it. The fact that other basic functions of government increasingly are both A) highly contentious, and B) fail to well-address concerns of voters is a contributing factor....when government works poorly in so many areas, it tends to taint opinions on everything, to include elections.

---

It's easy for people inside the Beltway to lose touch, to see things functioning mostly as normal inside the swamp and assume that is the case elsewhere. I know how much my perspective changed when I left and entered the private sector. It was almost the difference between black & white vs Color TV. We are not in Kansas anymore, sombear. The beltway swamp is not a counterbalance to the rest of the country. It has to serve the rest of the country, or it becomes the problem. And right now, it is most definitely the problem, all too often virtue posturing over things that literally do not matter rather than solving problems for the public.

Your last point, that Trump knew his polling was bad, yet fought hard and stretched Constitutional interpretation of the EV process to new boundaries, is instructive. You know, Democrats tore the country apart after the 2000 "selection," because it motivated their base and it (finally) undermined Bush's popularity, creating some of the energy that lifted Obama to office. Then, when things didn't go their way in 2016, they resolutely insisted the outlandish and now conclusively disproven idea that the Russians stole the election for Trump. Still do. And they won some power back in 2018 and 2020. The reason questioning elections works for them is they all get on message and bang on the issue without worrying about the details. There is an obvious lesson there for all to see. There is nothing but downside from fighting the base on the 2020 fraud issue. Successful parties attend to the concerns of their base.

RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
--Saul Alinsky

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

You continue to promote the candidate that Democrats prefer. Biden's only chance is Trump.

You Always Trumpers will elect a Democrat

---

Predicting months ago who would be leading the race is not supporting anyone.
Explaining how & why that would happen is not supporting anyone.
Being spot-on correct about that prediction is not supporting anyone.
Failing to join or cheer neverTrumper nonsense is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent virtue posturing of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent narcissism of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent hypocrisy of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.

I am going to support the Republican nominee in 2024, because that person, regardless who it is, will have the best chance of defeating Democrats who have plainly stated they will to treat me as a second-class citizen. Right now, looks like the nominee is going to be Trump. I have mixed but mostly good feelings about that. If it ends up being DeSantis, I will have mixed but mostly good feelings about that, too. And if it's anyone else, I'll have a LOT of mixed feelings. But no matter what, I will be there on the battlefield.

I'm not making any predictions at this time about the general election, other than it is very winnable by either of the two front runners. So many variables and chances for black swan type of surprises. I won't put much energy in picking a candidate to support until we get to Thanksgiving.

But you, I'm sure, will go on being you. So carry on.....

---

Always Trump, All the time. You be you.

You post in an attempt to make Trump seem inevitable. He isn't. DeSantis hasn't even announced.

I won't be voting for a Democrat. Trump won't commit to supporting the Republican nominee, why should I?

---

LOL there you go against with the "anything other than denunciation is endorsement" nonsense. I am pointing to the bloody obvious hard data on the desk in front of us = the polling margins as well as the trends create implausible scenarios for anyone else to win the primary....at this time.

Sure, when RDS jumps in, he will get a bounce. We could argue about how much, but we'll see soon. I'd be surprised if it's more than a few points. Yes, he'll start campaigning and that will help out over time. But I'd suggest he's probably going to need some outside help.....events working for him and against Trump. And I'm sure he will get some. I am intrigued to see how RDS goes about whittling away Trump's support, the strategy. My "people" tell me the RDS team is world class, so I'll be interested to see what they do. And for the record I don't care how nasty it gets. SOMEBODY is going to win the primary. The one that wins is the strongest candidate. QED. I still like the chances that both Trump and RDS will be on the ticket, a somewhat more likely outcome today than it was when I first mentioned it late last year (due to Trump's strength).

Here's a novel idea: you should commit to support the Republican nominee to show you are better than Trump. I mean, if it's all about the virtue posture for you, which it appears to be, then it is highly amusing to see you try to prove how much you dislike Trump by acting exactly like him.

BREAKING: Lincoln Project founder MELTS DOWN over CNN Trump townhall, admits Trump’s win inevitable pic.twitter.com/1Ulri5iJRz

— Jack Poso 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) May 11, 2023

Never Trumpers in full meltdown after Trump gives his best performance since 2016 last night.

Trump did outperform his own polling, both in 2016 and 2020. In 2020, he outperformed his own polling pretty much everywhere except MI (although he did better in Detroit). PA, AZ, and GA were pretty much dead-on.

You're conflating issues. Post-2020 election, Trump did not focus on process issues. He focused on crooked voting machines and mass vote/electioneering fraud. All of that has been litigated and relitigated and study after study (some initiated by Trump team). he also focused on the "Pence strategy" which was laugable.

Again, Trump did better by far in urban areas than he did in 2016 and better than his own polling.

And every Trump attorney and campaign staffer has recanted. There is no there there.

No, I do not accept that we have to hang on to and support a big lie.

CNN's controversial town hall with Trump night drew 3.1 million viewers last night, making it the most-watched cable news network of the evening. https://t.co/f3iRmIk3X6

— Axios (@axios) May 11, 2023

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

You continue to promote the candidate that Democrats prefer. Biden's only chance is Trump.

You Always Trumpers will elect a Democrat

---

Predicting months ago who would be leading the race is not supporting anyone.
Explaining how & why that would happen is not supporting anyone.
Being spot-on correct about that prediction is not supporting anyone.
Failing to join or cheer neverTrumper nonsense is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent virtue posturing of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent narcissism of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent hypocrisy of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.

I am going to support the Republican nominee in 2024, because that person, regardless who it is, will have the best chance of defeating Democrats who have plainly stated they will to treat me as a second-class citizen. Right now, looks like the nominee is going to be Trump. I have mixed but mostly good feelings about that. If it ends up being DeSantis, I will have mixed but mostly good feelings about that, too. And if it's anyone else, I'll have a LOT of mixed feelings. But no matter what, I will be there on the battlefield.

I'm not making any predictions at this time about the general election, other than it is very winnable by either of the two front runners. So many variables and chances for black swan type of surprises. I won't put much energy in picking a candidate to support until we get to Thanksgiving.

But you, I'm sure, will go on being you. So carry on.....

---

Always Trump, All the time. You be you.

You post in an attempt to make Trump seem inevitable. He isn't. DeSantis hasn't even announced.

I won't be voting for a Democrat. Trump won't commit to supporting the Republican nominee, why should I?

---

Here's a novel idea: you should commit to support the Republican nominee to show you are better than Trump. I mean, if it's all about the virtue posture for you, which it appears to be, then it is highly amusing to see you try to prove how much you dislike Trump by acting exactly like him.

---

Tell me who the Republican candidate is. I might commit to him/her.

Seems like people who disagree with you are all virtue posturing, not principled. Isn't there another possibility?

How am I acting exactly like Trump?

https://t.co/2NsmO5FCmH pic.twitter.com/NcghorDNvY

— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) May 12, 2023

sombear said:

---

Trump did outperform his own polling, both in 2016 and 2020. In 2020, he outperformed his own polling pretty much everywhere except MI (although he did better in Detroit). PA, AZ, and GA were pretty much dead-on.

You're conflating issues. Post-2020 election, Trump did not focus on process issues. He focused on crooked voting machines and mass vote/electioneering fraud. All of that has been litigated and relitigated and study after study (some initiated by Trump team). he also focused on the "Pence strategy" which was laugable.

Again, Trump did better by far in urban areas than he did in 2016 and better than his own polling.

And every Trump attorney and campaign staffer has recanted. There is no there there.

No, I do not accept that we have to hang on to and support a big lie.

---

Very bad logic there = Trump did not focus on the process problems ergo there is no there there.

It's not a lie. Dems are stealing (close) elections with mail in voting. And the voters know it.

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Trump did outperform his own polling, both in 2016 and 2020. In 2020, he outperformed his own polling pretty much everywhere except MI (although he did better in Detroit). PA, AZ, and GA were pretty much dead-on.

You're conflating issues. Post-2020 election, Trump did not focus on process issues. He focused on crooked voting machines and mass vote/electioneering fraud. All of that has been litigated and relitigated and study after study (some initiated by Trump team). he also focused on the "Pence strategy" which was laugable.

Again, Trump did better by far in urban areas than he did in 2016 and better than his own polling.

And every Trump attorney and campaign staffer has recanted. There is no there there.

No, I do not accept that we have to hang on to and support a big lie.

---

Very bad logic there = Trump did not focus on the process problems ergo there is no there there.

It's not a lie. Dems are stealing (close) elections with mail in voting. And the voters know it.

---

You misinterpreted. I am not denying Dems have a major advantage due to mail ballots, etc., and I have no doubt they cheat. What I reject is the mass voting machine/mass fraud/Pence power BS that Trump knew were lies lie (his own children, friends, and staff told him so) but got folks so riled up.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?

---

So you hate him, ergo you act like him?

---

You know I'm a Never Trumper
I know you are an Always Trumper

I hate what Trump did after the 2020 election. It is a disqualification

---

I'm an "always support the most conservative candidate"-er.
Trump didn't do anything wrong after the 2020 election. He fought to the bitter end, and then he left office.

you know, you could just say...."I don't like the guy" and leave it at that. Why do you have to invent reasons to help Democrats get elected?

---

You continue to promote the candidate that Democrats prefer. Biden's only chance is Trump.

You Always Trumpers will elect a Democrat

---

Predicting months ago who would be leading the race is not supporting anyone.
Explaining how & why that would happen is not supporting anyone.
Being spot-on correct about that prediction is not supporting anyone.
Failing to join or cheer neverTrumper nonsense is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent virtue posturing of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent narcissism of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.
Critiquing the latent hypocrisy of neverTrumpism is not supporting anyone.

I am going to support the Republican nominee in 2024, because that person, regardless who it is, will have the best chance of defeating Democrats who have plainly stated they will to treat me as a second-class citizen. Right now, looks like the nominee is going to be Trump. I have mixed but mostly good feelings about that. If it ends up being DeSantis, I will have mixed but mostly good feelings about that, too. And if it's anyone else, I'll have a LOT of mixed feelings. But no matter what, I will be there on the battlefield.

I'm not making any predictions at this time about the general election, other than it is very winnable by either of the two front runners. So many variables and chances for black swan type of surprises. I won't put much energy in picking a candidate to support until we get to Thanksgiving.

But you, I'm sure, will go on being you. So carry on.....

---

Always Trump, All the time. You be you.

You post in an attempt to make Trump seem inevitable. He isn't. DeSantis hasn't even announced.

I won't be voting for a Democrat. Trump won't commit to supporting the Republican nominee, why should I?

---

Here's a novel idea: you should commit to support the Republican nominee to show you are better than Trump. I mean, if it's all about the virtue posture for you, which it appears to be, then it is highly amusing to see you try to prove how much you dislike Trump by acting exactly like him.

---

Tell me who the Republican candidate is. I might commit to him/her.

Seems like people who disagree with you are all virtue posturing, not principled. Isn't there another possibility?

How am I acting exactly like Trump?

---

Odds are, Trump is the nominee.
Not a lock, but the guy with a 30-40 point lead is usually kinda hard to beat.
Odds are, Desantis will be the VP.
That is pretty conventional (VP choice often a defeated candidate, governor, etc...) and RDS is one of the few that has a chance to unite the party (for a longish list of reasons) so he will get a ton of pressure from within and without his camp to play ball.

There is a lot of virtue posturing in politics. A lot of it in life. Integrity is supposed to be what you do when no one is looking, but it's a lot easier (and more gratifying) to do it where everyone can see it so they'll think you do it when they're not looking. And in politics such is a ritual, particularly today, when the country in general and the left in particular is turning to politics rather than religion for spirituality. And no one is more pious about the virtue posture than the neverTrumpers. They want to make sure EVERYONE knows they don't support that guy, and bluster ad nauseum about voting third party so everyone will think better of them for hating on Trump. (Only they don't.)

How are you acting exactly like Trump? You've said it twice in the thread above:
"Trump won't pledge to support the Republican nominee. Why should I?"
"Trump won't commit to supporting the Republican nominee, why should I?"
You hate the guy, yet you do the exact same thing he does.
Ironic.
Bigly.

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Trump did outperform his own polling, both in 2016 and 2020. In 2020, he outperformed his own polling pretty much everywhere except MI (although he did better in Detroit). PA, AZ, and GA were pretty much dead-on.

You're conflating issues. Post-2020 election, Trump did not focus on process issues. He focused on crooked voting machines and mass vote/electioneering fraud. All of that has been litigated and relitigated and study after study (some initiated by Trump team). he also focused on the "Pence strategy" which was laugable.

Again, Trump did better by far in urban areas than he did in 2016 and better than his own polling.

And every Trump attorney and campaign staffer has recanted. There is no there there.

No, I do not accept that we have to hang on to and support a big lie.

---

Very bad logic there = Trump did not focus on the process problems ergo there is no there there.

It's not a lie. Dems are stealing (close) elections with mail in voting. And the voters know it.

---

You misinterpreted. I am not denying Dems have a major advantage due to mail ballots, etc., and I have no doubt they cheat. What I reject is the mass voting machine/mass fraud/Pence power BS that Trump knew were lies lie (his own children, friends, and staff told him so) but got folks so riled up.

---

So if he'd just argued a different point it'd been ok to get everyone all riled up. Why not pick up where he left off and work on the actual problem.

Complaining about stolen elections is good politics, if executed well. It's certainly been effective for him - he's forty points up in the primary and effectively tied in the general with some current momentum. Perhaps if the rest of the team had joined in enthusiastically, rather than quibbling over details, the positive effects would have been broader. Kemp deserves special opprobrium in this regard. Unwilling to admit there were ANY problems for fear it would have reflected badly on him.