2024

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Osodecentx
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whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
4th and Inches
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Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
remanding the election results to the house by objecting to states that failed to follow federal law isnt stealing. Its in the law. Why do you hate the law while claiming to protect it
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Osodecentx
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4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
remanding the election results to the house by objecting to states that failed to follow federal law isnt stealing. Its in the law. Why do you hate the law while claiming to protect it


Why do you hate the Constitution & those who defend it?
FLBear5630
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Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
He would make a quality VP or Agency Sec. He is not Presidential material.
Osodecentx
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FLBear5630 said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
He would make a quality VP or Agency Sec. He is not Presidential material.


I think this is true. He is a good man in the right place at the right time
FLBear5630
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Osodecentx said:

FLBear5630 said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
He would make a quality VP or Agency Sec. He is not Presidential material.


I think this is true. He is a good man in the right place at the right time
Too bad he isn't a Lawyer. He would make a fantastic DOJ lead. I would trust him in charge of DOJ...
4th and Inches
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Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
remanding the election results to the house by objecting to states that failed to follow federal law isnt stealing. Its in the law. Why do you hate the law while claiming to protect it


Why do you hate the Constitution & those who defend it?
i asked you first..
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Cobretti
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Quote:

Election Day is 53 weeks away, and Biden needs to excite young voters, Black voters and Hispanic voters. His core constituency is unlikely to vote for Trump. But Democrats are concerned about a combination of voters staying home or backing a third-party candidate. Dems won in 2020 because of massive turnout. Now, many of Biden's base voters are over him. To try to rev them up, Democrats plan to lean into Trump, abortion and rising cultural issues, including book bans.

Quote:

Top Biden backers worry they're one trip or stumble or brain glitch away from another round of Biden's-too-old hand-wringing.

Osodecentx
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4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
remanding the election results to the house by objecting to states that failed to follow federal law isnt stealing. Its in the law. Why do you hate the law while claiming to protect it


Why do you hate the Constitution & those who defend it?
i asked you first..


I asked you last
LIFO
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Osodecentx
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whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
4th and Inches
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Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
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Osodecentx
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4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
By throwing out votes duly certified by the states

From WSJ:

Mike Pence Makes a Gracious Exit
The former Vice President leaves the presidential race as a politician who put his country first.

Critics who say he should never have accepted the VP nod should thank heaven he was there on Jan. 6, 2021. Mr. Pence stood up to Mr. Trump's public and private pressure to stop the electoral vote count. He followed his conscience to recognize the constitutional limits of his role, and he did the right thing in a political crucible, though he had to know he was damaging his future presidential prospects. He deserves the public's gratitude.

Mr. Pence didn't endorse another candidate, but perhaps he will as the primaries approach. Mr. Trump said Saturday that Mr. Pence should endorse him as an act of loyalty for having chosen him as his running mate, but Mr. Trump betrayed Mr. Pence with his post-election pressure to betray the VP's oath of office.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-drops-out-gop-2024-race-republicans-donald-trump-election-3422eeae?mod=opinion_lead_pos2
4th and Inches
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Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
By throwing out votes duly certified by the states
you do know they changed the way to object to elector slates and the powers of the VP on Jan 6th in Dec 2022 right? If he didnt have the power, why the change?

Certified votes that were given in a fraudulent manner should be contested.. dozens of cases that were heard on the merits prove this out, many states certified votes that were not legal. Those that were objecting that day had the right to do so by law and by reason.

You keep saying thrown out, he wasnt going to throw them out, he was going to oversee the objections and act according to his powers.

They didnt conplete the objection process due to the riot. The VP had powers that he/she no longer has and the elector challange process has also been changed. The plan had was more merit and legal standing than you give it credit.
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Osodecentx
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4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
By throwing out votes duly certified by the states
you do know they changed the way to object to elector slates and the powers of the VP on Jan 6th in Dec 2022 right? If he didnt have the power, why the change?

Certified votes that were given in a fraudulent manner should be contested.. dozens of cases that were heard on the merits prove this out, many states certified votes that were not legal. Those that were objecting that day had the right to do so by law and by reason.

You keep saying thrown out, he wasnt going to throw them out, he was going to oversee the objections and act according to his powers.

They didnt conplete the objection process due to the riot. The VP had powers that he/she no longer has and the elector challange process has also been changed. The plan had was more merit and legal standing than you give it credit.
From WSJ:

Mike Pence Makes a Gracious Exit
The former Vice President leaves the presidential race as a politician who put his country first.

Critics who say he should never have accepted the VP nod should thank heaven he was there on Jan. 6, 2021. Mr. Pence stood up to Mr. Trump's public and private pressure to stop the electoral vote count. He followed his conscience to recognize the constitutional limits of his role, and he did the right thing in a political crucible, though he had to know he was damaging his future presidential prospects. He deserves the public's gratitude.

Mr. Pence didn't endorse another candidate, but perhaps he will as the primaries approach. Mr. Trump said Saturday that Mr. Pence should endorse him as an act of loyalty for having chosen him as his running mate, but Mr. Trump betrayed Mr. Pence with his post-election pressure to betray the VP's oath of office.
[url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-drops-out-gop-2024-race-republicans-donald-trump-election-3422eeae?mod=opinion_lead_pos2][/url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-drops-out-gop-2024-race-republicans-donald-trump-election-3422eeae?mod=opinion_lead_pos2
4th and Inches
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Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
By throwing out votes duly certified by the states

From WSJ:

Mike Pence Makes a Gracious Exit
The former Vice President leaves the presidential race as a politician who put his country first.

Critics who say he should never have accepted the VP nod should thank heaven he was there on Jan. 6, 2021. Mr. Pence stood up to Mr. Trump's public and private pressure to stop the electoral vote count. He followed his conscience to recognize the constitutional limits of his role, and he did the right thing in a political crucible, though he had to know he was damaging his future presidential prospects. He deserves the public's gratitude.

Mr. Pence didn't endorse another candidate, but perhaps he will as the primaries approach. Mr. Trump said Saturday that Mr. Pence should endorse him as an act of loyalty for having chosen him as his running mate, but Mr. Trump betrayed Mr. Pence with his post-election pressure to betray the VP's oath of office.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-drops-out-gop-2024-race-republicans-donald-trump-election-3422eeae?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

opinion article, i disagree with some of it.

Betray the oath of office? Maybe he and congress did that when they approved certified slates based on illegal votes. Trump had a right to be angry but he had sh.. for guidance. Barr tells you it was an infair election. He hates Trump. Dozens of court cases tell you it was an unfair election, are they wrong?

Stop being a Trump hater for a minute and see they screwed up royally when doing the 2020 election all the way up to and thru jan 6 certification.
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Osodecentx
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There's One Easy Trick to Winning in 2024
The party that picks a different nominee establishes a massive advantage.

It was pretty obvious, for instance, that Joe Biden was a stronger general-election candidate in 2020 than Bernie Sanders, and lo and behold, Biden rose from the dead and won the Democratic nomination.

Sometimes passion, calculated risk-taking, delusion, or stasis overwhelms the obvious, though. When this happens to one party think of the Goldwater or McGovern nominations it often suffers a debacle. But what if both parties succumb to these forces at the same time?
Then you get a clash of weakness where both parties risk throwing away a winnable race through their insistence on fielding desperately flawed candidates unpalatable to the larger public.

The Republican reaction to the likely renomination of Joe Biden is, in effect, "We'll see and raise your unpopular incumbent who looks as if he could tip over at any moment with an unpopular former president who will likely be convicted of felonies next year."

The Democratic reaction to the likely renomination of Donald Trump is, in effect, "We'll see and raise your radioactive standard-bearer with a president who is trailing him in polls and who most people think can't serve another four years."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/10/theres-one-easy-trick-to-winning-in-2024/



boognish_bear
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Osodecentx
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4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
By throwing out votes duly certified by the states

From WSJ:

Mike Pence Makes a Gracious Exit
The former Vice President leaves the presidential race as a politician who put his country first.

Critics who say he should never have accepted the VP nod should thank heaven he was there on Jan. 6, 2021. Mr. Pence stood up to Mr. Trump's public and private pressure to stop the electoral vote count. He followed his conscience to recognize the constitutional limits of his role, and he did the right thing in a political crucible, though he had to know he was damaging his future presidential prospects. He deserves the public's gratitude.

Mr. Pence didn't endorse another candidate, but perhaps he will as the primaries approach. Mr. Trump said Saturday that Mr. Pence should endorse him as an act of loyalty for having chosen him as his running mate, but Mr. Trump betrayed Mr. Pence with his post-election pressure to betray the VP's oath of office.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-drops-out-gop-2024-race-republicans-donald-trump-election-3422eeae?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

opinion article, i disagree with some of it.

Betray the oath of office? Maybe he and congress did that when they approved certified slates based on illegal votes. Trump had a right to be angry but he had sh.. for guidance. Barr tells you it was an infair election. He hates Trump. Dozens of court cases tell you it was an unfair election, are they wrong?

Stop being a Trump hater for a minute and see they screwed up royally when doing the 2020 election all the way up to and thru jan 6 certification.
Stop being an "All Trumper, All the Time". You ignore reams of evidence to renew your vow of loyalty.
Oldbear83
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Dude, you ignore Reality in order to go after anyone you dislike.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
boognish_bear
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Thee University
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:


If the DOJ sends Trump to prison, Joe Biden should be euthanized for treason. This double standard crap has to stop.
Biden has already been euthanized.
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
4th and Inches
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Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

4th and Inches said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

He defended the Constitution on Jan 6. This cycle just isn't working for him
He agreed on a course of action which would have worked, and he chickened out. Just like he did on that bill in Indiana back when he was governor.

The time to say "no" on whether or not to use his powers with EVs to throw the election into the House of Representatives is not the moment before the ceremony starts. It's from the outset of the plan. Dude talks a good game and postures & preens the part, but folds under pressure. Prototypical "all hat, no cattle" dude.




Pence stood the test. He defended the Constitution against Trump's attempts to steal the 2020 election
LOL if for the sake of argument we allow that you are right about the 2020 election challenges being an affront to the Constitution (which they weren't, of course), the best that can be said about his actions is that he chickened out at the last moment. (just like he did on that bill in question in IN.)

And that's why he couldn't find any support in the primary. Moderates think he sold out to Trump all along; conservatives see in him an untrustworthy ally. All quite predictable.
Too simplistic. It just wasn't his time; it happens.

But beyond that, you seem to think that Pence changed his mind about subverting the electoral college count ("chickened out"). Where do you get that? Trump and some lawyers hot boxed the VP in the oval, but Pence never agreed. That came out in sworn testimony.
how does one subvert the power given by the constitution and federal election laws by doing what is written in them?
By throwing out votes duly certified by the states

From WSJ:

Mike Pence Makes a Gracious Exit
The former Vice President leaves the presidential race as a politician who put his country first.

Critics who say he should never have accepted the VP nod should thank heaven he was there on Jan. 6, 2021. Mr. Pence stood up to Mr. Trump's public and private pressure to stop the electoral vote count. He followed his conscience to recognize the constitutional limits of his role, and he did the right thing in a political crucible, though he had to know he was damaging his future presidential prospects. He deserves the public's gratitude.

Mr. Pence didn't endorse another candidate, but perhaps he will as the primaries approach. Mr. Trump said Saturday that Mr. Pence should endorse him as an act of loyalty for having chosen him as his running mate, but Mr. Trump betrayed Mr. Pence with his post-election pressure to betray the VP's oath of office.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-drops-out-gop-2024-race-republicans-donald-trump-election-3422eeae?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

opinion article, i disagree with some of it.

Betray the oath of office? Maybe he and congress did that when they approved certified slates based on illegal votes. Trump had a right to be angry but he had sh.. for guidance. Barr tells you it was an infair election. He hates Trump. Dozens of court cases tell you it was an unfair election, are they wrong?

Stop being a Trump hater for a minute and see they screwed up royally when doing the 2020 election all the way up to and thru jan 6 certification.
Stop being an "All Trumper, All the Time". You ignore reams of evidence to renew your vow of loyalty.
lol, you are always good for a laugh.
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Mothra
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boognish_bear said:


I'm just glad Trump learned to use spell check before posting.

Saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, "Meteor 2024." That's about where I am right now, given the current frontrunners for the parties.
Mothra
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boognish_bear said:


My gosh. I can't wait for his opponents to play that video over and over.
Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Cobretti
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FLBear5630
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This is election fraud. Prosecute and give jail time.





Two Democrats Charged With Election Fraud (msn.com)
Osodecentx
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Republicans' Moment of Choosing

The GOP can be the party with integrity and a relentless commitment to telling hard truths, or we can be the party that gives in to fanciful lies.

Difficult problems require serious solutions, of course, but they also require a willingness to tell hard truths. And neither party in Washington is willing to tell the truth to the American people these days.

Democrats, for their part, have spent decades promoting falsehoods about the consequences of our spending policies, expanding the role of the federal government and about the fragile state of Social Security and Medicare. They are committed to big spending not to the truth.

Meanwhile, Washington Republicans have been too busy rewriting history to be bothered with tackling our nation's problems.

A growing number of Republican politicians are eroding their own credibility, and simultaneously undermining the entire GOP brand, by continuing to breathe life into the lies surrounding the 2020 election. In 2023, the Republican machine refuses to move on from the destructiveness of President Trump's final months in office. These falsehoods around the 2020 election and its aftermath continue to captivate a very vocal segment of the GOP base and thus animate many Republicans on Capitol Hill.

The lie that the election was stolen is so pervasive among elected officials that it has become almost a litmus test for loyalty to Donald Trump. To even suggest that there is no credible evidence of widespread, outcome-determining election fraud is an act of heresy in today's Republican Party. Republican politicians have set aside facts in favor of social-media fervor.

A further lie that has become gospel truth within the Republican Party is that the attack on our Capitol building was merely an "unguided tour" and a "mostly peaceful protest." We continue to hear Republicans work themselves into logical pretzels as they try to explain how there is a difference between the violence and riots in the summer of 2020 of left-wing organizations and the violence perpetrated on January 6.

A related series of lies has been spun in the narrative about the so-called political prisoners who caused the devastation on January 6. Too many Republicans in Washington and right-wing media outlets describe these prisoners as languishing in an "American gulag," persecuted solely for their political beliefs. It's a deceptive narrative intended to gin up anger and frustrations among a disenchanted segment of the Republican base.

Republicans cannot initiate a national conversation about existential threats to America's future without first clearing the air about the lingering political lies. We should start with the simple truth that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election.

Here's an uncomfortable truth: The GOP can be the political party with integrity and a relentless commitment to telling hard truths, or we can be the political party that gives in to fanciful lies. We simply cannot be both.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/11/republicans-moment-of-choosing/





Oldbear83
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So Peggy Noonan changed her name to Ken Buck?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
ShooterTX
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We saw dozens of videos just like this in 2020, but NOW it's evidence of election fraud?

81 million votes my ass!

The dems only hope is to lie and cheat. Between this and the censorship case... how can anyone trust a democrat anymore?
ShooterTX
FLBear5630
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ShooterTX said:



We saw dozens of videos just like this in 2020, but NOW it's evidence of election fraud?

81 million votes my ass!

The dems only hope is to lie and cheat. Between this and the censorship case... how can anyone trust a democrat anymore?


Glad to see we learned from 2020. This is the second story in as many days. Saying it is one thing, proving it is another. I am hoping that the 2024 election is more secure and tamper proof. There may be some hope.
Redbrickbear
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