The collapse of South Africa?

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Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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D. C. Bear
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Redbrickbear said:




Saw this same rhetoric 30-plus years ago.
Redbrickbear
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D. C. Bear said:

Redbrickbear said:




Saw this same rhetoric 30-plus years ago.


True.

People keep saying South Africa is gonna collapse…but it never does
Golem
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Redbrickbear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Redbrickbear said:




Saw this same rhetoric 30-plus years ago.


True.

People keep saying South Africa is gonna collapse…but it never does


Until it does. My personal experience there from 2010 to today tells me it's RAPIDLY declining. Take all anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt, but this doesn't really need any seasoning.
whiterock
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Golem said:

Redbrickbear said:

D. C. Bear said:

Redbrickbear said:




Saw this same rhetoric 30-plus years ago.


True.

People keep saying South Africa is gonna collapse…but it never does


Until it does. My personal experience there from 2010 to today tells me it's RAPIDLY declining. Take all anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt, but this doesn't really need any seasoning.
Took Zim a very long time to hit bottom......
Redbrickbear
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[I met a white South African postgraduate student studying in western Europe, and who is in Hungary for a fellowship. I had met him last week socially, and found his story so interesting we arranged to meet for an interview. We spent an hour talking on the record, but because the things we spoke about are so sensitive, I promised to let him review the transcript, in part to make sure he didn't inadvertently put anyone back home in danger. I don't think he did, but one can't be too careful.

I will be posting the full interview here after he approves the transcript, and posting his name and photo. I also gave him a subscription to this newsletter, so if he wants to out himself early in the comments, he might. This interview was startling to me as an American. The basic theme of the talk was the condition of post-apartheid South Africa, and the lessons this has for the West whose elites are in thrall to DEI ideology.

The Afrikaner said that he certainly does not support apartheid, and does not want it back. But thirty years on, South Africa is spiraling downward into ruin. Why? Largely because racial hiring laws compelled businesses to hire according to an Ibram Kendi-style quota system. The problem is that there were not, and are not, nearly enough educated, competent black South Africans to man the institutions of the complex technological society built by white South Africans. The country's electrical and water grids, which were handed to the black majority government in great shape, are on their last legs, which afflicts every South African. There is a lot more to say about this wait for the interview but the young man was very blunt about what happens to a society that ceases to value competence in hiring, and instead hires for ideological reasons.

We also talked at length about what happens to a racial minority in a country ruled by a different minority hostile to them. White South Africans both Afrikaner and English have always been a relatively small minority in that country, which is one reason why white minority rule was unjust. He was telling me about the frightening rise of far-left racial militance among a minority of blacks who are to the left of the ruling ANC and including some within the ANC, as this 2017story from The Australian, about the rash of gruesome murders and torture of white farmers, documents:
Quote:

In 2010, high-profile ANC member Julius Malema sang "Shoot the Farmer, Kill the Boer", which Genocide Watch describes as "once a revolutionary song, but now an incitement to commit genocide".
Malema was convicted for hate speech and the singing of the song was banned, but just seven months later president Jacob Zuma sang the song himself at an ANC event, in direct contempt of the judge's ruling.
Malema was later kicked out the ANC, forming his own Marxist party, the Economic Freedom Fighters, which is now the third-largest party in parliament. Recently, Malema has been travelling the country urging black South Africans to take back land from "Dutch thugs".
"People of South Africa, where you see a beautiful land, take it, it belongs to you," Malema was quoted in The Telegraph as telling parliament.
Perhaps in response to populist pressure from Malema, Zuma earlier this month called for the confiscation of white-owned land without compensation. Zuma urged the "black parties" in the parliament to unite to form the two-thirds majority that would be needed to make the necessary change to the country's constitution.
Last week, during a debate in parliament about the farm attacks, an ANC MP shouted "Bury them alive!" while MP Pieter Groenewald was speaking about the plight of white farmers.
"This is proof that the utterances of political leaders could lead to violence and murders and that the issue of farm murders is of little importance to the ANC," AfriForum's head of community safety, Ian Cameron, said in a statement afterwards. "Certain members of the ANC were chatting during the debate and not listening nor partaking at all."
I'll stop there, because I don't want to get too far ahead of the interview. One point I took from this conversation was that a people who will not cut this kind of radicalism off at the root will eventually find themselves like white South Africans: more or less at the mercy of the radicals.

The radicalism centers around race in South Africa. In the US, it's race, sex, and gender. ] - Rod Dreher

nein51
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Can't wait to read it. Will be interesting to see what he says and what conclusions you draw. I can tell you my person opinion is backed by data that shows SA was far better off under apartheid, however unjust that sounds/is.
Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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nein51
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Could that be contributed to other causes? Increase ownership of personal automobiles, for example.
Redbrickbear
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nein51 said:

Could that be contributed to other causes? Increase ownership of personal automobiles, for example.
Probably would account for some of the decline...as you said in terms of passengers...since more people own more cars/motor bikes.

But it seems that the complaint people are having is in freight transportation decline.


https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2023/01/17/south-africas-disintegrating-freight-railway-is-crippling-firms
[If exporters cannot move their goods, the economy will stumble]
Redbrickbear
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nein51
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For sure they have a million problems.
Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Golem
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Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.
KaiBear
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Golem said:

Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.


Most Americans have not traveled enough to comprehend the validity of your comments .

And even if they suspect you might be right ; they are too scared to say so out loud .
Redbrickbear
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nein51
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I say it all the time. The country was better off under apartheid. It's not the whites that are the problem.
KaiBear
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Redbrickbear said:


Another Haiti in the making.
Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Harrison Bergeron
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nein51 said:

I say it all the time. The country was better off under apartheid. It's not the whites that are the problem.
Ironically, many regressives belive this although they would never acknowledge it because they are not logical, but an apparteid state is really what they want to create. A two-tiered society between the elite and working class where freedoms are suppressed by society is safe and orderly. A mix of the Hunger Games and Idiocracy.
Redbrickbear
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Porteroso
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Golem said:

Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.

Wow. No mention of Eastern European or Asian culture? Let me guess, the culture of your ancestors, primarily white, is tha best?
Golem
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Porteroso said:

Golem said:

Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.

Wow. No mention of Eastern European or Asian culture? Let me guess, the culture of your ancestors, primarily white, is tha best?


I've done business in over 60 countries (including Eastern European, African, Middle Eastern and Asian) and lived in 4. You Jack off to Asian porn.
Porteroso
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Golem said:

Porteroso said:

Golem said:

Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.

Wow. No mention of Eastern European or Asian culture? Let me guess, the culture of your ancestors, primarily white, is tha best?


I've done business in over 60 countries (including Eastern European, African, Middle Eastern and Asian) and lived in 4. You Jack off to Asian porn.

I bet ze Germans have the best culture of all you've visited right? Very impressive, I'm very impressed.
Redbrickbear
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Porteroso said:

Golem said:

Porteroso said:

Golem said:

Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.

Wow. No mention of Eastern European or Asian culture? Let me guess, the culture of your ancestors, primarily white, is tha best?


I've done business in over 60 countries (including Eastern European, African, Middle Eastern and Asian) and lived in 4. You Jack off to Asian porn.

I bet ze Germans have the best culture of all you've visited right? Very impressive, I'm very impressed.


"Best" culture is very very hard to prove.

For my money the Corsicans and Sicilians have the best culture. Great food, great songs, great weather, Low work schedule.

But most efficient culture can be proven.

It's the South Koreans or the Dutch…they are workaholic weirdos but their achievements for their size (population and territory wise) are staggering
Redbrickbear
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whiterock
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Harrison Bergeron said:

nein51 said:

I say it all the time. The country was better off under apartheid. It's not the whites that are the problem.
Ironically, many regressives belive this although they would never acknowledge it because they are not logical, but an apparteid state is really what they want to create. A two-tiered society between the elite and working class where freedoms are suppressed by society is safe and orderly. A mix of the Hunger Games and Idiocracy.
Black Zimbabweans said it all the time when I was there in the 90's.

I was in the Meikles one day with the POLOFF when what we thought was a demonstration broke out on the west side of the park. I walked over to see what was up. Turns out, Ian Smith had been spotted inside of a bookstore with a big window facing the park. When he walked out, the crowd erupted in cheers & applause, and followed him off down the street.. 100% black Zim crowd.
whiterock
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Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

Golem said:

Porteroso said:

Golem said:

Western European (yes, primarily white) culture is far and away superior to most of the trash cultures that populate the world. This is a fact that can be seen by outcomes. Tear it down and you tear down that which innovates, invents, feeds, cures and produces. If you want prosperity, join it, as giants like Frederick Douglass, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas have.

Wow. No mention of Eastern European or Asian culture? Let me guess, the culture of your ancestors, primarily white, is tha best?


I've done business in over 60 countries (including Eastern European, African, Middle Eastern and Asian) and lived in 4. You Jack off to Asian porn.

I bet ze Germans have the best culture of all you've visited right? Very impressive, I'm very impressed.


"Best" culture is very very hard to prove.

For my money the Corsicans and Sicilians have the best culture. Great food, great songs, great weather, Low work schedule.

But most efficient culture can be proven.

It's the South Koreans or the Dutch…they are workaholic weirdos but their achievements for their size (population and territory wise) are staggering
"Best" is not the point. A peoples are entitled to have one rather than have others (or in the case of progressives, no culture at all) dictated upon them.

Core point of R.R. Reno's book "Return of the Strong Gods" is that culture, the ability to connect with others and built community, is a basic human need. Without it, the individual feels psychologically homeless. Whether it's asian culture, western culture, african culture, etc.....or not matters little. Humans NEED culture and we are wise to give them space to live the one they have. Progressives, of course, cannot abide culture, because their ideological worldview is built on the premise that culture inevitably and inexorably oppresses the individual
Redbrickbear
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