Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

---

Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

---

Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

---

I can understand why some might think it's arrogance, but it's confidence in what is true. I suppose you would have thought the exact same thing about the apostle Paul who vigorously defended the truth of the gospel. There is NOTHING I am saying that isn't biblical. If you're saying I'm being arrogant, then you are saying the Bible is too.

And the irony in your comment is that I'm the one promoting justification by our faith alone in Jesus alone which is what Scripture teaches, whereas your Roman Catholic friends are the ones insisting on their tradition OVER the word of God - JUST LIKE what the Pharisees did, which Jesus Christ severely rebuked them for.

FreedomBear's arrogance is that even when his comments are shown to be supremenly ignorant, he has zero willingness to acknowledge it and even doubles down on his false beliefs, even more confident that they are true, as if nothing happened. And worse, if someone can show him the ignorance in his beliefs, he simply "blocks" them so he won't have to deal with it. This is ignorance firmly entrenched by pure arrogance and pride. However, to be fair, there are many here like this, you being one of them.

If you think I'm the same, then show me where I'm ignorant. Tell me where I'm wrong, and we'll discuss. I invite all discussion. Problem is, this is where you usually bail and your only retort is to hurl insults and run off. If you've come back to play this game again, then I'm not interested.

Please watch this video. It is an excellent summary of the true Gospel which many of you are not understanding, hence you are trying to gain salvation through your own merit.

Wow. From some quotes here appears some have gone full wheels off lol

Imagine thinking they'd debunked 2000 years of Catholicism and the creators of the Bible etc from written documented word going back to the very beginning

Such hubris. Such ignorance. Even in the Times of Jesus there are at least 10 other people that claimed to be the messiah. There have always been false teachers and spinners of the inspired word. Whether through ignorance or truly attempting to deceive thru the devil or other.

Usually those people are super emotional and incapable of discussing on the merits of the facts and start screaming and ranting and name calling. That's why those people should be blocked.

Can't argue with those people intellectually because they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience (at that level).

Some here are asking great questions that can entice some intellectual discussions as to the how's and whys.

Others just seem to hate the truth of the Catholic teachings which have been existing and discussed and been written about since Jesus walked the earth. Not Calvin. Not Luther. Not some gobbledygook invention and twist of 500 years ago suddenly appearing.

Any of those can be discussed in the merits with intellectuals that don't insta rant and scream. That gets boring fast

Fre3dombear said:

---

Wow. From some quotes here appears some have gone full wheels off lol

Imagine thinking they'd debunked 2000 years of Catholicism and the creators of the Bible etc from written documented word going back to the very beginning

Such hubris. Such ignorance. Even in the Times of Jesus there are at least 10 other people that claimed to be the messiah. There have always been false teachers and spinners of the inspired word. Whether through ignorance or truly attempting to deceive thru the devil or other.

Usually those people are super emotional and incapable of discussing on the merits of the facts and start screaming and ranting and name calling. That's why those people should be blocked.

Can't argue with those people intellectually because they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience (at that level).

Some here are asking great questions that can entice some intellectual discussions as to the how's and whys.

Others just seem to hate the truth of the Catholic teachings which have been existing and discussed and been written about since Jesus walked the earth. Not Calvin. Not Luther. Not some gobbledygook invention and twist of 500 years ago suddenly appearing.

Any of those can be discussed in the merits with intellectuals that don't insta rant and scream. That gets boring fast

---

Then why are you so afraid to discuss what you say you want to discuss? THAT's why you blocked me. Everyone knows this. You're just making excuses, and your excuses are lies. I never called you names. I never ranted and became emotional. YOU called me names, and I can point to exactly where you did. YOU became unhinged and emotional, and I can point to exactly where you did that as well. Prove to everyone that you're not afraid to deal with what I'm saying by engaging in a discussion with me. Prove to everyone that you are correct that Protestant belief is a "new invention". You talk about "great questions" but you aren't addressing them, such as how can you say we can't know if we are saved, when 1 John 5:13 says we CAN?? See, it's for reasons like this you blocked me. It's so you can pretend this argument doesn't exist and you can just go on believing what you want to believe as if nothing happened.

BUDOS said:

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Ok, not going to argue the point as y'all are intellectually well over my head. I am a simple, basic guy so I was wondering how, in this situation, one would define the difference between a Christian who is a Protestant and a Christian who is a Catholic.

I understand if this question is not worth your time. Although I have some peripheral issues with certain aspects of Catholicism, I do believe I shall see some in heaven.

---

This is a great question BUCANDOIT and the type of thing I'm personally interested in discussing as things can quickly devolve into "which team are you on". From Protestants im more interested in understanding why they think what they think.

To be clear even amongst the non Protestant thinkers there's not agreement on everything.

Some of the key points where generally Protestants and Catholics disagree (some may have impact on eternal soil some may not)

1. The Eucharist - Protestants don't believe in transubstanciacion and most don't regularly participate in the ceremony as Catholics do weekly which is the key point of the mass

1a. - Faith alone / faith vs works - Protestants no works required at all. Only believe. Catholics believe God commands us to do so much more. I have expounded on this at length even in this and other threads in this tiny board

2. OSAS (once saved always saved) - this one is fascinating to me. In my countless conversations and reading it seems to be summed up as 1) you can't lose your salvation and 2) if you do something that generally people would think would cause you to lose your salvation (maybe think Hitler, faucci) you were never "actually" saved which then gets into predestination

3. Predestination - not sure how prevalent this is but I've had Protestants argue vehemently with me on this point. I can't buy into God creating your soul knowing that it was always predestined to go to hell. Maybe the Protestants here could elucidate on that topic

4. Purgatory - Catholics believe. Protestants don't

5. Confession and mortal / venial sins) - Catholics believe and practice, Protestants don't

6. Mary - Protestants believe Catholics worship Mary, Catholics don't. (Many things under this topic. Was Mary ever Virgin, assumed bodily into Heaven, Jesus only child etc. some of these topics are more tradition
And not impactful to eternal soul

7. Tradition v sola scriptura - Catholics believe tradition is part of the faith, Protestants don't and believe only explicitly what was written and their interpretations of those words

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

"You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course"

I did yesterday. You ignored it for some reason.

Some folks like to talk way more than consider someone else's points.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

HA!!

There's a great quote by Thomas Sowell - "When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination."

I think the same principle applies to how Roman Catholicism views Protestant beliefs. Protestantism is merely the return to the original faith based on Scripture. Roman Catholicism over time has departed so far from the original faith that now when they're presented the original faith it seems to them like a recent invention.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

---

Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

---

I can understand why some might think it's arrogance, but it's confidence in what is true. I suppose you would have thought the exact same thing about the apostle Paul who vigorously defended the truth of the gospel. There is NOTHING I am saying that isn't biblical. If you're saying I'm being arrogant, then you are saying the Bible is too.

And the irony in your comment is that I'm the one promoting justification by our faith alone in Jesus alone which is what Scripture teaches, whereas your Roman Catholic friends are the ones insisting on their tradition OVER the word of God - JUST LIKE what the Pharisees did, which Jesus Christ severely rebuked them for.

FreedomBear's arrogance is that even when his comments are shown to be supremenly ignorant, he has zero willingness to acknowledge it and even doubles down on his false beliefs, even more confident that they are true, as if nothing happened. And worse, if someone can show him the ignorance in his beliefs, he simply "blocks" them so he won't have to deal with it. This is ignorance firmly entrenched by pure arrogance and pride. However, to be fair, there are many here like this, you being one of them.

If you think I'm the same, then show me where I'm ignorant. Tell me where I'm wrong, and we'll discuss. I invite all discussion. Problem is, this is where you usually bail and your only retort is to hurl insults and run off. If you've come back to play this game again, then I'm not interested.

---

Don't care whether or not you're "interested". Simply holding up a mirror for you. Don't expect you to see your overwhelming arrogance, either. I'm content to drop in now and again to shine a light on your bull**** in hopes that someday you will see your overweening hubris and the error of your ways. You do absolutely nothing positive here for the body of Christ.

I hope you all had a great time of worship today at Church

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

---

Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

---

I can understand why some might think it's arrogance, but it's confidence in what is true. I suppose you would have thought the exact same thing about the apostle Paul who vigorously defended the truth of the gospel. There is NOTHING I am saying that isn't biblical. If you're saying I'm being arrogant, then you are saying the Bible is too.

And the irony in your comment is that I'm the one promoting justification by our faith alone in Jesus alone which is what Scripture teaches, whereas your Roman Catholic friends are the ones insisting on their tradition OVER the word of God - JUST LIKE what the Pharisees did, which Jesus Christ severely rebuked them for.

FreedomBear's arrogance is that even when his comments are shown to be supremenly ignorant, he has zero willingness to acknowledge it and even doubles down on his false beliefs, even more confident that they are true, as if nothing happened. And worse, if someone can show him the ignorance in his beliefs, he simply "blocks" them so he won't have to deal with it. This is ignorance firmly entrenched by pure arrogance and pride. However, to be fair, there are many here like this, you being one of them.

If you think I'm the same, then show me where I'm ignorant. Tell me where I'm wrong, and we'll discuss. I invite all discussion. Problem is, this is where you usually bail and your only retort is to hurl insults and run off. If you've come back to play this game again, then I'm not interested.

---

Don't care whether or not you're "interested". Simply holding up a mirror for you. Don't expect you to see your overwhelming arrogance, either. I'm content to drop in now and again to shine a light on your bull**** in hopes that someday you will see your overweening hubris and the error of your ways. You do absolutely nothing positive here for the body of Christ.

---

I do nothing for what YOU perceive as the body of Christ. Your "body of Christ" includes people who want to place their salvation in the hands of someone other than Jesus. That's all on record, so don't even try to deny it again. So I'm very glad you consider me the enemy. To you, "hubris" is merely telling people the truth that you can't contend against; you want to, but you can't, so your only available recourse is to attack personally. You cursing in this forum like that only makes my case even stronger. I've repeatedly invited debate from you over anything I've said, but it's the same song and dance with you - attack me and then run off. So please get your attacks out of your system and over with, and then we'll be seeing you the next time you grace us here with your insightful inputs. Always good to hear from you, keep posting!

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

You won't find many of us here (or anywhere in the US for that matter), but there are some of us who are Episcopalian/Anglican. As such, we live on a continuum that includes both Reformed theology as well as Catholic thought. Of course this creates tension, but I am content to dwell in that tension of the "via media" (ie, middle way) and believe we are both Catholic and Protestant. Just not Roman Catholic. I respect the Holy Father as the Bishop of Rome, but that's where it ends for most Anglicans. That said, many of us track with Marian devotion, the intercession of the saints, the centrality of the Mass to worship, some flavor of the Real Presence/transubstantiation, Apostolic Succession, and those things we affirm in both the Nicene and Apostles' Creeds.

Fwiw, I was born and raised Southern Baptist. My father, grandfather, and father in law were all Baptist deacons and Sunday School teachers. We took church seriously and I had perfect Sunday School attendance for 10 years growing up. Was a voice major initially at Baylor and spent a couple of summers as an interim Music & Youth director. In other words, I was about as Baptist as one could be. However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church. That was almost 30 years ago now. I despise much of what has become of TEC, but still believe classical orthodox Anglican theology provides the best way forward.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

---

Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

---

I can understand why some might think it's arrogance, but it's confidence in what is true. I suppose you would have thought the exact same thing about the apostle Paul who vigorously defended the truth of the gospel. There is NOTHING I am saying that isn't biblical. If you're saying I'm being arrogant, then you are saying the Bible is too.

And the irony in your comment is that I'm the one promoting justification by our faith alone in Jesus alone which is what Scripture teaches, whereas your Roman Catholic friends are the ones insisting on their tradition OVER the word of God - JUST LIKE what the Pharisees did, which Jesus Christ severely rebuked them for.

FreedomBear's arrogance is that even when his comments are shown to be supremenly ignorant, he has zero willingness to acknowledge it and even doubles down on his false beliefs, even more confident that they are true, as if nothing happened. And worse, if someone can show him the ignorance in his beliefs, he simply "blocks" them so he won't have to deal with it. This is ignorance firmly entrenched by pure arrogance and pride. However, to be fair, there are many here like this, you being one of them.

If you think I'm the same, then show me where I'm ignorant. Tell me where I'm wrong, and we'll discuss. I invite all discussion. Problem is, this is where you usually bail and your only retort is to hurl insults and run off. If you've come back to play this game again, then I'm not interested.

---

Don't care whether or not you're "interested". Simply holding up a mirror for you. Don't expect you to see your overwhelming arrogance, either. I'm content to drop in now and again to shine a light on your bull**** in hopes that someday you will see your overweening hubris and the error of your ways. You do absolutely nothing positive here for the body of Christ.

---

I do nothing for what YOU perceive as the body of Christ. Your "body of Christ" includes people who want to place their salvation in the hands of someone other than Jesus. That's all on record, so don't even try to deny it again. So I'm very glad you consider me the enemy. To you, "hubris" is merely telling people the truth that you can't contend against; you want to, but you can't, so your only available recourse is to attack personally. You cursing in this forum like that only makes my case even stronger. I've repeatedly invited debate from you over anything I've said, but it's the same song and dance with you - attack me and then run off. So please get your attacks out of your system and over with, and then we'll be seeing you the next time you grace us here with your insightful inputs. Always good to hear from you, keep posting!

---

As ever, you construe your bloviating as contending for "the truth" when all you actually do is put forth your personal opinion. Imprisoned as you are in the castle of your own thoughts, you remain incapable of seeing the damage you do the body of Christ. You are the one doing the same song and dance here now for almost 2 years in the mistaken belief that you have any insightful inputs.

curtpenn said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

---

The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

---

Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

---

I can understand why some might think it's arrogance, but it's confidence in what is true. I suppose you would have thought the exact same thing about the apostle Paul who vigorously defended the truth of the gospel. There is NOTHING I am saying that isn't biblical. If you're saying I'm being arrogant, then you are saying the Bible is too.

And the irony in your comment is that I'm the one promoting justification by our faith alone in Jesus alone which is what Scripture teaches, whereas your Roman Catholic friends are the ones insisting on their tradition OVER the word of God - JUST LIKE what the Pharisees did, which Jesus Christ severely rebuked them for.

FreedomBear's arrogance is that even when his comments are shown to be supremenly ignorant, he has zero willingness to acknowledge it and even doubles down on his false beliefs, even more confident that they are true, as if nothing happened. And worse, if someone can show him the ignorance in his beliefs, he simply "blocks" them so he won't have to deal with it. This is ignorance firmly entrenched by pure arrogance and pride. However, to be fair, there are many here like this, you being one of them.

If you think I'm the same, then show me where I'm ignorant. Tell me where I'm wrong, and we'll discuss. I invite all discussion. Problem is, this is where you usually bail and your only retort is to hurl insults and run off. If you've come back to play this game again, then I'm not interested.

---

Don't care whether or not you're "interested". Simply holding up a mirror for you. Don't expect you to see your overwhelming arrogance, either. I'm content to drop in now and again to shine a light on your bull**** in hopes that someday you will see your overweening hubris and the error of your ways. You do absolutely nothing positive here for the body of Christ.

---

I do nothing for what YOU perceive as the body of Christ. Your "body of Christ" includes people who want to place their salvation in the hands of someone other than Jesus. That's all on record, so don't even try to deny it again. So I'm very glad you consider me the enemy. To you, "hubris" is merely telling people the truth that you can't contend against; you want to, but you can't, so your only available recourse is to attack personally. You cursing in this forum like that only makes my case even stronger. I've repeatedly invited debate from you over anything I've said, but it's the same song and dance with you - attack me and then run off. So please get your attacks out of your system and over with, and then we'll be seeing you the next time you grace us here with your insightful inputs. Always good to hear from you, keep posting!

---

As ever, you construe your bloviating as contending for "the truth" when all you actually do is put forth your personal opinion. Imprisoned as you are in the castle of your own thoughts, you remain incapable of seeing the damage you do the body of Christ. You are the one doing the same song and dance here now for almost 2 years in the mistaken belief that you have any insightful inputs.

---

It's okay, let it all out, man.

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

Scripture disproves your personal beliefs. Logic and sound reasoning disprove your beliefs. Like your belief that it's being a "Pharisee" to believe that we should place our salvation in the hands of Jesus alone.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

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And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

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Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

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This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

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......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

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So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

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You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

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Scripture disproves your personal beliefs. Logic and sound reasoning disprove your beliefs. Like your belief that it's being a "Pharisee" to believe that we should place our salvation in the hands of Jesus alone.

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You play semantic games and create straw men repeatedly then claim victory. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Same as ever. Keep up the great work for the Kingdom.

curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

Scripture disproves your personal beliefs. Logic and sound reasoning disprove your beliefs. Like your belief that it's being a "Pharisee" to believe that we should place our salvation in the hands of Jesus alone.

---

You play semantic games and create straw men repeatedly then claim victory. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Same as ever. Keep up the great work for the Kingdom.

---

It's a "semantic game" and a "straw man" to quote your exact words?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Imagine all those poor souls that met their end for 1500 years before Calvin clarified the Bible for everyone and explained what was really going on. . They all rotting in hell because they never had the chance to believe in what Calvin concocted. Tsk tsk

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The level of ignorance in your beliefs and how arrogantly sure you are of them is a tragic thing to witness.

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Accusing others of arrogance is richly ironic coming from the resident Pharisee-in-Chief.

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I can understand why some might think it's arrogance, but it's confidence in what is true. I suppose you would have thought the exact same thing about the apostle Paul who vigorously defended the truth of the gospel. There is NOTHING I am saying that isn't biblical. If you're saying I'm being arrogant, then you are saying the Bible is too.

And the irony in your comment is that I'm the one promoting justification by our faith alone in Jesus alone which is what Scripture teaches, whereas your Roman Catholic friends are the ones insisting on their tradition OVER the word of God - JUST LIKE what the Pharisees did, which Jesus Christ severely rebuked them for.

FreedomBear's arrogance is that even when his comments are shown to be supremenly ignorant, he has zero willingness to acknowledge it and even doubles down on his false beliefs, even more confident that they are true, as if nothing happened. And worse, if someone can show him the ignorance in his beliefs, he simply "blocks" them so he won't have to deal with it. This is ignorance firmly entrenched by pure arrogance and pride. However, to be fair, there are many here like this, you being one of them.

If you think I'm the same, then show me where I'm ignorant. Tell me where I'm wrong, and we'll discuss. I invite all discussion. Problem is, this is where you usually bail and your only retort is to hurl insults and run off. If you've come back to play this game again, then I'm not interested.

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Don't care whether or not you're "interested". Simply holding up a mirror for you. Don't expect you to see your overwhelming arrogance, either. I'm content to drop in now and again to shine a light on your bull**** in hopes that someday you will see your overweening hubris and the error of your ways. You do absolutely nothing positive here for the body of Christ.

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I do nothing for what YOU perceive as the body of Christ. Your "body of Christ" includes people who want to place their salvation in the hands of someone other than Jesus. That's all on record, so don't even try to deny it again. So I'm very glad you consider me the enemy. To you, "hubris" is merely telling people the truth that you can't contend against; you want to, but you can't, so your only available recourse is to attack personally. You cursing in this forum like that only makes my case even stronger. I've repeatedly invited debate from you over anything I've said, but it's the same song and dance with you - attack me and then run off. So please get your attacks out of your system and over with, and then we'll be seeing you the next time you grace us here with your insightful inputs. Always good to hear from you, keep posting!

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As ever, you construe your bloviating as contending for "the truth" when all you actually do is put forth your personal opinion. Imprisoned as you are in the castle of your own thoughts, you remain incapable of seeing the damage you do the body of Christ. You are the one doing the same song and dance here now for almost 2 years in the mistaken belief that you have any insightful inputs.

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It's okay, let it all out, man.

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Was hoping you might eventually get to the point where you had let it all out. Hope springs eternal. Keep spouting

curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

It's almost impossible to disprove the beliefs of someone who abandoned sola scriptura for sola mi feelings.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

Scripture disproves your personal beliefs. Logic and sound reasoning disprove your beliefs. Like your belief that it's being a "Pharisee" to believe that we should place our salvation in the hands of Jesus alone.

---

You play semantic games and create straw men repeatedly then claim victory. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Same as ever. Keep up the great work for the Kingdom.

---

It's a "semantic game" and a "straw man" to quote your exact words?

---

Of course, pinhead. You make up your own meaning as you go along while denying there are alternatives. Typical.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

It's almost impossible to disprove the beliefs of someone who abandoned sola scriptura for sola mi feelings.

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You would know since that's exactly what you do.

You may call your beliefs Sola Scriptura but it's still turtles all the way down and always will be. There's your basic problem that you cannot overcome.

curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

Scripture disproves your personal beliefs. Logic and sound reasoning disprove your beliefs. Like your belief that it's being a "Pharisee" to believe that we should place our salvation in the hands of Jesus alone.

---

You play semantic games and create straw men repeatedly then claim victory. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Same as ever. Keep up the great work for the Kingdom.

---

It's a "semantic game" and a "straw man" to quote your exact words?

---

Of course, pinhead. You make up your own meaning as you go along while denying there are alternatives. Typical.

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There are "alternatives" to who's hands we place our salvation in other than Jesus?

curtpenn said:

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You may call your beliefs Sola Scriptura but it's still turtles all the way down and always will be. There's your basic problem that you cannot overcome.

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Explain. Give an example of what you mean.

It sounds like you deny the perspicuity of Scripture. I highly disagree.

And sola scriptura does not mean there can't be differences in interpretation. It merely means that Scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith for the Church, because it is the ONLY thing we have in our possession that is God-breathed (His words).

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Always take a partisan claim with a grain of salt.

Several claims about Protestants in that post are false or at least exaggerated.

That happens, of course, when you see the 'other side' as an opponent and not a brother.

---

And this is the point of discussion. Havent had many Protestants argue this points are incorrect but there are 45,000 sects so it's possible for sure. It's the only reason I'm here. To learn why from people that think different and challenge my beliefs.

---

Or, you could speak for Roman Catholics and show restraint about your assumptions on Protestants.

---

This I did comparing and contrasting the points laid out here. And then we can discuss further. That's what makes it a message board

You're free to share you opinion in agreement or disagreement of course

Like when you say Roman Catholic vs Catholic what distinction are you making if any?

---

......However, by my late 30s I came to see that something was missing. Heard too many arguments that sounded much like those of our resident Pharisee, BTD.
Came to understand that one could only get so far trying to reason/argue Holy Scripture and thought there had to be a better way (and better music - though that's a story for another day). Was 42 when I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church.

---

So... you heard the actual truth of the Gospel, and rejected it for something your itchy ears wanted to hear.

---

You are the one who hears what he wants to hear. Same old same old out of you. No surprise. There is nothing in my personal beliefs that you can disprove.

---

Scripture disproves your personal beliefs. Logic and sound reasoning disprove your beliefs. Like your belief that it's being a "Pharisee" to believe that we should place our salvation in the hands of Jesus alone.

---

You play semantic games and create straw men repeatedly then claim victory. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Same as ever. Keep up the great work for the Kingdom.

---

It's a "semantic game" and a "straw man" to quote your exact words?

---

Of course, pinhead. You make up your own meaning as you go along while denying there are alternatives. Typical.

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There are "alternatives" to who's hands we place our salvation in other than Jesus?

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Depends entirely upon what one means by that phrase, of course. So yes, obviously.

Resorting to your typical approach, Pharisee.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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You may call your beliefs Sola Scriptura but it's still turtles all the way down and always will be. There's your basic problem that you cannot overcome.

---

Explain. Give an example of what you mean.

It sounds like you deny the perspicuity of Scripture. I highly disagree.

And sola scriptura does not mean there can't be differences in interpretation. It merely means that Scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith for the Church, because it is the ONLY thing we have in our possession that is God-breathed (His words).

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One of your insurmountable problems is your lack of authority re interpretation. Try as you might you cannot escape. Sola scriptura is just another turtle.

So you must drop to your knees and give thanks every night that we have this infallible gift courtesy of the Church of Rome? Lol.